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Maybe if there's enough clamor they'll toss it in on the inevitable final stretch goal tile?

No flowers seems kind of dumb. Hell, make a generic evil flower sculpt and then produce them in different colors so you can have evil vegetation in every environment.

I wouldn't mind some SD scenery as it is...

One can only hope, although I have to assume the last SG will be another Boo Booty box.

... Or a giant book!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
The Fire Flowers are the creeps for Dragonback peaks they are tokens in the 2.0 box Deke said they don't plan to do them as miniatures in the KS but will later on.

Quite frankly, this was a really bad decision. The entire point of SDE 2.0 as a KS is to make SDE 2.0 "complete", for both new and returning backers. The idea that they couldn't sculpt a simple 2-part mono-pose model to be produced en masse 6x for each backer is kinda ludicrous. Especially as they're already producing 12 Creeps per backer.

Am I reading it right that there are no boo booty either? Can't see any mentioned.

Not a problem as I own mki and fk already, but it seems odd not to have them. Plus it's a perfect chance to produce minis for the variant types that exist in sde now.

I think that's correct, no Boo Booty in 2.0, either.

At least the KS is getting Pets with models. But yeah, it's nuts that there aren't extra dice or chests being unlocked.

There are no creeps, pets or Boo Booty miniatures in the 2.0 box they have been replaced with tokens to bring the retail cost down to $80 rather than the $100 price tag of FK, 1.0/1.5 they want 2.0 to have a cheaper entry point.

The Bitey Book is the KS exclusive box



The current stretch goal tile is the final tile with a secret goal at the end.

Dave, I understand that the tokens are for retail. However, for the KS, everybody is getting "free" models. Why not make them the models that players actually "need?"

The really stupid thing is that this is the perfect time to create actual Bouncing Booty and Grinder models. Why wouldn't SPM make the 2.0 KS version premium?

I mean, FFS, they did 12 pets. 6 Pets would have been fine. Then the other 6 sculpts are the missing creeps, chests, Boo Booty, Bouncing Booty and Grinding Booty - perfect!

It's chintzy and short-sighted not to give out the chests and creeps during the KS and expect people to have to buy them later.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Dave, I understand that the tokens are for retail. However, for the KS, everybody is getting "free" models. Why not make them the models that players actually "need?"

The really stupid thing is that this is the perfect time to create actual Bouncing Booty and Grinder models. Why wouldn't SPM make the 2.0 KS version premium?

I mean, FFS, they did 12 pets. 6 Pets would have been fine. Then the other 6 sculpts are the missing creeps, chests, Boo Booty, Bouncing Booty and Grinding Booty - perfect!

It's chintzy and short-sighted not to give out the chests and creeps during the KS and expect people to have to buy them later.

Plus the lower entry point is in part caused by the one fewer tile, and two fewer spawns (or one linked spawn) as we lose one Rex and one kobold spawn vs mki...

I dunno, I'm not going to complain as even at the full $300 pledge I'm saving a lot vs uk retail, but it does seem odd to lose the chests at the very least.

As John mentions, they are throwing a metric tonne of free stuff at us, it seems odd to have missed core box critical stuff in exchange for some of them freebies.

Because they want to sell this to people off the shelf. Not just kickstarter backers.

A lower price point is how they do it.

It makes an abundance of sense.

I kinda agree... a creep which can be sold in 6 per boss, 12 per tile pack vs a pet which is 1 per person, you get a lot less traction per mold/design.

All I can figure is they have feedback that people are hot for pets to an extreme which we don't fully grasp.

But I will also say, that more creeps and alt booties I don't think would have added one single dime to this KS, and I suspect a pet pack has retail appeal while chests/booties would have to be packed with the core box at a loss.

I think the model is: You don't get a creep without a boss or tile set to buy them with. Spites clearly will be packaged with the nether rifts tiles. All other creeps come with a mega boss. I think we will see volcano tiles/fireflowers when roxor gets a 2.0 clean up.

So while there is a 'need' the real 'need' is what will make sense as an after-market purchase VS something which is forced bundled to a core box, so what they have done I think makes sense as every stretch can be a Tilepack, Bosspack, Single Hero pack or a themed box like 'alt genders/pets/npcs'

Yeah, I get that they're shorting the retail version by a Warband worth of Monsters, along with the scenery.

That SPM isn't doing those core minis suggests they just didn't play (or playtest) the boxed set. They know from 1.0 and TFK that the Bootys need models, as they're monsters. Same with the Creeps. And yet, they're not making them part of the campaign. Same with the failure to include more dice. If it's a 4-player game, the reduced dice count in the 2.0 set just isn't enough.

I wonder if maybe SPM didn't expect newbies to jump in and get 2.0? That they knew they were only selling 90% to existing players & customers who had dice & chests & bootys, so they didn't care about attracting new players?
____

As for packaging, I clearly noted that the $80 MSRP retail version can be shortpacked with tokens. The KS will come with a Bitey Book full of stuff, and that stuff can just as easily have been Creeps, Chests & Bootys. Along with Dice, and unlocked Pets. Those Pets, Creeps, Chests, Bootys & Dice can then be retail bundled as a $ 25 MSRP SDE 2.0 "completer" set with the "missing" tile. Then Rex & Kobolds get bundled with a Hero (Sanctioned Witch?) to make a $40 MSRP Warband. And of course, the genderflip Heroes become another set. Easy! And good value for the KS backers!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, I get that they're shorting the retail version by a Warband worth of Monsters, along with the scenery.

That SPM isn't doing those core minis suggests they just didn't play (or playtest) the boxed set. They know from 1.0 and TFK that the Bootys need models, as they're monsters. Same with the Creeps. And yet, they're not making them part of the campaign. Same with the failure to include more dice. If it's a 4-player game, the reduced dice count in the 2.0 set just isn't enough.

I wonder if maybe SPM didn't expect newbies to jump in and get 2.0? That they knew they were only selling 90% to existing players & customers who had dice & chests & bootys, so they didn't care about attracting new players?

They don't need models, just tokens. 'NEED' for core boardgames is a loaded term.

Leaves realm for maybe a 'treasure trove' tileset which comes with 3 chests, 3, boooty, 3 grinder, 3 bounce or something later which then has a retail model behind the stuff opposed to making an 80$ box more expensive.

Please re-read my follow-on.

At no point have I suggested adding to the $80 MSRP retail box. I get what SPM is doing there, and am OK with hit.

I have said that the KS should have included all of those items as part of the KS, which is a very different thing.

They wanted to produce a lower price entry box to sell alongside FK,

that's why there is less content in the 2.0 box

and they're not doing stuff specifically for the KS as they've had loads of people moaning about companies who do stuff specifically for KS (exclusives, or 'only at cons') to the extent they've made a big thing about everything they'll ever do will be available on the website

so if they do it for the plastic flowers/pets etc they'd need to do a web site version with them too (at which point people would moan about having to get the box from them and not being able to get it from their favourite store, and stores would wonder if they should be stocking the fancy box rather than the cheap box)

OMG, none of you guys are comprehending what I said.

SDE 2.0 = 8+1 Heroes, 1 Boss, 1 mini-Boss, 3 Spawns + tokens == $80 MSRP

"Treasure chest" = 6 Pets, 6 creeps, 5 chests, 2+2+2 Booty, extra dice == $30 MSRP, but "FREE" in the KS.

It's not exclusive, it's just sold separately. Like batteries.

How hard is that to understand?

Don't worry John, I get what you're saying and I agree as well. I would much rather have the boo booty monsters instead of a second Arachne for example

Thanks, tho it is kind of a missed opportunity.

So has anyone else figured out what "Build your own Dungeon" is? Have they said, anywhere?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Thanks, tho it is kind of a missed opportunity.

Ah, if that's what you meant I guess the explanation is they didn't get concepts and then the sculpting done in time,

and after Relic Knights they have a real issue with coming to KS with stuff that isn't at least in the 3D sculpting phase

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So has anyone else figured out what "Build your own Dungeon" is? Have they said, anywhere?

When the update first went out it was "Choose Your Own Adventure", but that got renamed...

I'm assuming it's still a sort of visual storybook.

That doesn't sound like, random-dungeon-crawl-campaign mode. :-p

Boo.

I'm in agreement with you too John.

Would much prefer sculpts to tokens when everything else is getting blinged out, especially when we've got enough pets in the game now to field a warband in most skirmish games.

Doubling up the mini bosses isn't going to cost them a whole lot since the sculpt is already getting produced, but then again, they've got boo booty sculpts, and if they made the flowers the volume needed would probably offset the costs associated with them, and they could readily sell them at retail as well.

Who knows- maybe they'll do some as a release between now and when the actual game comes out? Something to keep interests high?

Much like the extra mini-bosses, the chest and basic booty sculpts are already cut, so running off a few more is basically "free". Same with the dice, which got brand new high-precision steel molds cut for TFK. Reusing those molds means it would have been cheaper to do the treasure trove completer models than 6 new pets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
That doesn't sound like, random-dungeon-crawl-campaign mode. :-p

Boo.

Well, it can't be "Choose Your Own Adventure", because that's (tm) (r) and (c) somebody besides SPM...

But if it were a random dungeon maker, that would be cool.

I was hoping for a few more NPCs... but I guess with the town guard we got a good township.

We have a:
*A Blacksmith for weapons and armor
*A Bank Warden for Guarding the bank
*A Scholar/Cartographer for keeping books and Maps
*A Tailor for Cloth-based armor
*Ser Strong... For strength training?

And Repurposed Heroes
*A Witch for selling Magical Items
*An Alchemist for selling Potions
*A Cook for Running a Pub
*A Priest for running the church
*A Traveling Merchant Goblin

So we have a pretty well-packed NPC Backlog... (not that I don't want more!!!! I might end up making some farm animals)

The lack of creeps for the base game got me thinking... what if it came with a boss?

We have one final stretch.

All that talk about Super King Starfire.

What if he was the last goal, with corresponding creeps included?

Maybe that's what that final mystery chest holds. They said we'd need to work hard to get to that final one.

Just a thought.

I could be totally off base and it's a new metal coin or something silly.

That would be amazing and shocking.

How many mini's at the Explorer and Dark Consul pledges? I'm counting just under 150. TIA!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The core FK offer amounted to 100 models for $100, with the ability to add up to $200, $300 worth of stuff via a couple dozen a la carte options. Also, FK got a huge number of backers on the last couple days.


I believe that Legends is basically tracking FK, and will see a similar large bump at the end. I think Legends will easily break $800k, and finish around $1M. I don't think Legends will surpass FK, but I could be wrong.

I was with you on this John. I didn't thing this would do nearly as well as FK but it just sailed right past. I'm agog

So, I'm strapped for cash right now, but can I pledge a buck and add later in the pledge manager? CMON normally allows that, and they handled their last ones, but I wasnt around for Forgotten King, so dont know how soda pop runs things. Thanks!

Edit - NM, I saw they added that to the FAQ. What I get for not re-checking!

So the final SG is a fairly pointless coin, oh well. Still very pleased with the KS, plenty of things to get excited about and generally a very impressive haul of free stuff. Plenty of super-cutesy stuff for my girlfriend as well which will keep her from questioning why I need yet more figures when I haven't even started painting the huge pile that have arrived recently.

It'll be interesting to see the Arcadia Quest KS on the 16th as I imagine I'll pick that up as well and just mash the miniatures together and use them for whatever game I want. Does anyone know what the quality is like on AQ models and how well they can be mixed with SDE ones?

BigOscar wrote:
So the final SG is a fairly pointless coin, oh well. Still very pleased with the KS, plenty of things to get excited about and generally a very impressive haul of free stuff. Plenty of super-cutesy stuff for my girlfriend as well which will keep her from questioning why I need yet more figures when I haven't even started painting the huge pile that have arrived recently.

You say that now...

I got hooked on coins from pp (several sodapop guys are ex pp too... Coincidence? ) I've got four bronze and four silver pp painting coins, all three pg coins produced so far and several cryx faction coins from over the years. I even commissioned my own resin and eventually metal coins for painting events I run in the uk. Coins are addictive.

The sde one from fk was pretty cool, it's surprisingly chunky.

It's quite an American military thing I think, the challenge coin, but it's quite a fun token ultimately.