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2015/09/17 18:13:34
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Geir Lundestad, who served as Director of the Nobel Institute for 25 years, wrote in a newly released memoir that although the five-strong Norwegian Nobel Committee had all agreed to give Obama the award, his record in office since receiving the prize had shown it to be a mistake.
According to Lundestad, the argument which swayed the committee was that the prize would help him achieve his goals.
"In hindsight, we could say that the argument of giving Obama a helping hand was only partially correct," he wrote, according to VG newspaper.
Lundestad on Wednesday released his memoir, "Fredens sekretær. 25 år med Nobelprisen" (Secretary of Peace. 25 years with the Nobel Prize) about his experiences with the Nobel committee, revealing details about relationships within the committee and the peace prize winners up until he stepped down in 2014.
In the book, he is scathing about Thorbjørn Jagland, the committee's former chairman, who is accuses of having "surprising shortcomings in knowledge," being "very disorganised" and "not willing to learn from others".
He also argues that appointing a former Prime Minister to lead the committee had always been a mistake, as it was not a rule suitable for former ministers.
Gro Harlem Brundtland, another former Labour Party prime minister, had also been sceptical of the choice, he wrote.
"Gro Harlem Brundtland said to me after Jagland became the leader of the committee that he was lousy at dealing with staff," Lundestad writes.
Lundestad was not the only person to have misgivings about the Obama award, the American president himself said he was "surprised".
"Even many of Obama's supporters thought that the prize was a mistake. In that way, the committee did not achieve what it had hoped," Lundestad writes.
He claims that Obama's advisors even discreetly asked if it would be possible for the US President to avoid the award.
“His cabinet had already asked whether anyone had previously refused to travel to Oslo to receive the prize,” Lundestad said. “In broad strokes, the answer was no.”
According to Lundestad, then foreign minister Jonas Gahr Store tried the following year to dissuade the panel from awarding the prize to a Chinese dissident, fearing it would put a strain on Norway's relations with Beijing.
"During my 25 years (on the committee), I don't ever recall seeing anything like that," Lundestad said.
The Nobel committee, which fiercely guards its independence from the politics of power, ignored the minister's warnings and honoured Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo -- which has left Oslo's ties with Beijing frozen ever since.
Not only does this seem obvious in retrospect, I'd like to point out that this seemed like a pretty bad call at the time, too.
You probably shouldn't give someone a NPP for the stuff they might do, or that you hope they do, or simply for "not being George W Bush".
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2015/09/17 18:27:51
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I said as much the day the announcement was made. I think Barry O would have been doing himself and everyone else a huge favor if he had declined the prize.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2015/09/17 18:36:34
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I mean, giving someone a prize to encourage them to do things seems a bit silly, especially when it's a bloody Nobel prize! Not at all surprising really.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
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2015/09/17 18:41:03
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Obama's lack of character in accepting the award instead of declining it from this joke of an committee is finally being seen as the farce it was. Good.
Here's a partial list of those that were passed over in the rush to kiss Obama's butt:
Chinese Human Rights Activist Hu Jia – imprisoned for campaigning for human rights in the PRC, not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Wei Jingsheng, who spent 17 years in Chinese prisons for urging reforms of China’s communist system. — not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama. (Not to mention the symbolic value of awarding a Chinese dissident on the 20th Anniversary of the Tianenmen Square Massacre.)
Greg Mortenson, founder of the Central Asia Institute has built nearly 80 schools, especially for girls, in remote areas of northern Pakistan and Afghanistan over the past 15 years – not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad, a philosophy professor in Jordan who risks his life by advocating interfaith dialogue between Jews and Muslims, also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Afghan human rights activist Sima Samar. She currently leads the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission and serves as the U.N. special envoy to Darfur and is apparently also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/17 19:39:15
2015/09/17 19:45:39
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I've long held that the Nobel Peace Prize is a farce (they gave it to Yasser Arafat, ffs) and feel totally vindicated with this admission by the Director. Now if only they would completely overhaul the criteria for handing this award out and eliminate politics from it, it might become worthy of the name.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 19:46:15
2015/09/17 20:19:25
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I've long held that the Nobel Peace Prize is a farce (they gave it to Yasser Arafat, ffs) and feel totally vindicated with this admission by the Director. Now if only they would completely overhaul the criteria for handing this award out and eliminate politics from it, it might become worthy of the name.
Whats wrong with giving the peace prize to Yasser Arafat? Just because he was the leader of a terrorist Organization and one of the reasons why there still isn't peace between Israel and her arab neighbors? those don't seem like good reasons to not award a "PEACE" prize to someone.
Maybe they meant to give Obama and Arafat a Piece Prize but someone took it the wrong way?
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/17 20:23:49
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I thought it was silly then and still think it is silly now.
I also still do not blame President Obama as he didn't put in the nomination nor did he vote on it. He was, OTOH, put in the terrible position to either accept and have people complain that he accepted it or decline it and have people complain that he was disrespectful ect ect.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2015/09/17 20:30:42
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Ahtman wrote: I thought it was silly then and still think it is silly now.
I also still do not blame President Obama as he didn't put in the nomination nor did he vote on it. He was, OTOH, put in the terrible position to either accept and have people complain that he accepted it or decline it and have people complain that he was disrespectful ect ect.
I hate Obama, I personally think he is one of the worst presidents in our history and even with that said I agree with you, he was put in a lose lose situation. I don't blame him for the peace prize.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/17 20:35:42
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Ahtman wrote: I thought it was silly then and still think it is silly now.
I also still do not blame President Obama as he didn't put in the nomination nor did he vote on it. He was, OTOH, put in the terrible position to either accept and have people complain that he accepted it or decline it and have people complain that he was disrespectful ect ect.
I hate Obama, I personally think he is one of the worst presidents in our history and even with that said I agree with you, he was put in a lose lose situation. I don't blame him for the peace prize.
Who would you rated as just barely above him, and similarly below him. If he's one of the worst I'm wondering who he is keeping company with and who he beats/loses to in close proximity. Curious.
2015/09/17 20:50:18
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
I've long held that the Nobel Peace Prize is a farce (they gave it to Yasser Arafat, ffs) and feel totally vindicated with this admission by the Director. Now if only they would completely overhaul the criteria for handing this award out and eliminate politics from it, it might become worthy of the name.
Whats wrong with giving the peace prize to Yasser Arafat? Just because he was the leader of a terrorist Organization and one of the reasons why there still isn't peace between Israel and her arab neighbors? those don't seem like good reasons to not award a "PEACE" prize to someone.
Maybe they meant to give Obama and Arafat a Piece Prize but someone took it the wrong way?
Exactly. If you can't give a peace prize to a murdering savage of women and children, who can you give a peace prize to?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/17 20:58:13
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
gorgon wrote: Obama surely must rank below the great William McKinley.
He's certainly not the worst President we've ever had (Franklin Pierce) but he'll never be remembered as one of the best.
I'd rate President Obama as slightly better than President Carter but not much more than that.
When you say Carter, are you including the Carter Family? I don't know about you but a President who's family makes the elixir known as Billy Beer has a lot going for it.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/17 21:19:12
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Relapse wrote: Obama's lack of character in accepting the award instead of declining it from this joke of an committee is finally being seen as the farce it was. Good.
Here's a partial list of those that were passed over in the rush to kiss Obama's butt:
Chinese Human Rights Activist Hu Jia – imprisoned for campaigning for human rights in the PRC, not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Wei Jingsheng, who spent 17 years in Chinese prisons for urging reforms of China’s communist system. — not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama. (Not to mention the symbolic value of awarding a Chinese dissident on the 20th Anniversary of the Tianenmen Square Massacre.)
Greg Mortenson, founder of the Central Asia Institute has built nearly 80 schools, especially for girls, in remote areas of northern Pakistan and Afghanistan over the past 15 years – not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad, a philosophy professor in Jordan who risks his life by advocating interfaith dialogue between Jews and Muslims, also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Afghan human rights activist Sima Samar. She currently leads the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission and serves as the U.N. special envoy to Darfur and is apparently also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
To go slightly off track here, and while not wanting to take away from the point (which I agree was a poor decision), I do find the consistent usage of Obama's middle name of Hussein in criticisms of him, highlighting his "Otherness", to be both telling of the attitudes against him, and irritating.
People only used the previous Bush's middle name to distinguish him from his father of the same name, and even then, it was just the initial, "W", and nobody referred to Senior as "George Herbert Walker Bush" except in the most formal of circumstances. Nobody refers to Clinton as "William Jefferson Clinton", it's always "Bill Clinton". I don't ever recall "Ronald Wilson Reagan" being used in full almost ever, nor "James Earl Carter" or "Gerald Rudolph Ford", except maybe in reference to their inaugurations and (in some cases) obituaries. None of those other Nobel suggestions had their middle names used.
But Obama gets his middle "Hussein" name thrown in their routinely where these other presidents would not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 21:22:04
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/09/17 21:22:12
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Lots of people referred to Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Kennedy like that. Get the feth over it and quit calling people racists on the sly. We all know thats what you really mean.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 21:22:34
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/09/17 21:26:36
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Frazzled wrote: Lots of people referred to Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Kennedy like that. Get the feth over it and quit calling people racists on the sly. We all know thats what you really mean.
As I said, I can't recall their names being used routinely like that, hence why I made the point. Outside of formal announcements, almost nobody used these guy's middle names. I can't ever recall people calling carter "James Earl Carter" in critical forum posts or Reagan referred to with his "Wilson" middle name. The only reason I even remembered Ford's was because it was "Rudolph", and amusing, but don't ever recall anyone ever actually having used it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 21:29:34
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/09/17 21:30:38
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Frazzled wrote: Lots of people referred to Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Kennedy like that. Get the feth over it and quit calling people racists on the sly. We all know thats what you really mean.
Frazzled wrote: Lots of people referred to Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Kennedy like that. Get the feth over it and quit calling people racists on the sly. We all know thats what you really mean.
As I said, I can't recall their names being used routinely like that, hence why I made the point. Outside of formal announcements, almost nobody used these guy's middle names. I can't ever recall people calling carter "James Earl Carter" in critical forum posts or Reagan referred to with his "Wilson" middle name. The only reason I even remembered Ford's was because it was "Rudolph", and amusing, but don't ever recall anyone ever actually having used it.
Vaktathi, it started with Bill and Hillary Clinton. During Bill Clinton's first run at the Presidency, Hillary routinely referred to herself as "Hillary Rodham Clinton" and Bill was sometimes referred to as "William Jefferson Clinton" as well. Things picked up when George "W" Bush became president and the Left used "Dubya" constantly as a way to bash him. The use of "Barrack Hussein Obama" as well as the whole Birther thing got started by the Clintons during the primary election cycle as an attempt to make Obama lose the Democrat nomination. Didn't work. Still, right-wing radio and former Fox commentators have ridden that horse to ground and are still beating it to this day so they do deserve blame.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/09/17 21:35:14
2015/09/17 21:38:02
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
The difference is that when people say "Hillary Rhodam Clinton" (the only politician other than Obama or Bush Junior who is frequently referred to using her middle name) her middle name is not emphasized and it only appears with both her first and last names. Contrast to the use of Obama's middle name, which is frequently brought up and emphasized in speech solely to call attention to it and sometimes used solely as "Hussein Obama" on really dedicated right wing radio and news media.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 21:39:18
Frazzled wrote: Lots of people referred to Carter, Clinton, Nixon, and Kennedy like that. Get the feth over it and quit calling people racists on the sly. We all know thats what you really mean.
I honestly don't remember that going on a whole lot the way it does with Obama, but it seems both those friendly to hem as well as those who don't like him seem to do it equally.
2015/09/17 22:00:38
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Relapse wrote: Obama's lack of character in accepting the award instead of declining it from this joke of an committee is finally being seen as the farce it was. Good.
Here's a partial list of those that were passed over in the rush to kiss Obama's butt:
Chinese Human Rights Activist Hu Jia – imprisoned for campaigning for human rights in the PRC, not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Wei Jingsheng, who spent 17 years in Chinese prisons for urging reforms of China’s communist system. — not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama. (Not to mention the symbolic value of awarding a Chinese dissident on the 20th Anniversary of the Tianenmen Square Massacre.)
Greg Mortenson, founder of the Central Asia Institute has built nearly 80 schools, especially for girls, in remote areas of northern Pakistan and Afghanistan over the past 15 years – not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad, a philosophy professor in Jordan who risks his life by advocating interfaith dialogue between Jews and Muslims, also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
Afghan human rights activist Sima Samar. She currently leads the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission and serves as the U.N. special envoy to Darfur and is apparently also not as worthy as Barack Hussein Obama.
To go slightly off track here, and while not wanting to take away from the point (which I agree was a poor decision), I do find the consistent usage of Obama's middle name of Hussein in criticisms of him, highlighting his "Otherness", to be both telling of the attitudes against him, and irritating.
People only used the previous Bush's middle name to distinguish him from his father of the same name, and even then, it was just the initial, "W", and nobody referred to Senior as "George Herbert Walker Bush" except in the most formal of circumstances. Nobody refers to Clinton as "William Jefferson Clinton", it's always "Bill Clinton". I don't ever recall "Ronald Wilson Reagan" being used in full almost ever, nor "James Earl Carter" or "Gerald Rudolph Ford", except maybe in reference to their inaugurations and (in some cases) obituaries. None of those other Nobel suggestions had their middle names used.
But Obama gets his middle "Hussein" name thrown in their routinely where these other presidents would not.
It's not "Hussein" it's "HUSSEIN!" you gotta give it that emphasis.
2015/09/17 22:09:35
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
This is the first time I heard his middle name. I thought the guy was making a joke. Did not expect that to be the middle name of an American President.
2015/09/17 22:25:23
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Swastakowey wrote: This is the first time I heard his middle name. I thought the guy was making a joke. Did not expect that to be the middle name of an American President.
Why is it a joke? Why is it not expected as a middle name for a president? It's his damn name, and Americans come from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds with diverse names.
It really is nothing but thinly veiled fearmongering. There were numerous conservative websites that loved to capitalize the middle name, as if that was damning in some capacity just because he has a 'different' name. In fact, you generally can tell the partisan nature of any attack on Obama by the inclusion of the middle name or not, which is quite something. George Bush was 'George W Bush' mostly to differentiate him from his father, who was president not that long before. That's reasonable. But no other president in the modern era has had a middle name emphasized in this odd way. Strange, no?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 22:26:52
2015/09/17 22:31:34
Subject: Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
Swastakowey wrote: This is the first time I heard his middle name. I thought the guy was making a joke. Did not expect that to be the middle name of an American President.
Why is it a joke? Why is it not expected as a middle name for a president? It's his damn name, and Americans come from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds with diverse names.
It really is nothing but thinly veiled fearmongering. There were numerous conservative websites that loved to capitalize the middle name, as if that was damning in some capacity just because he has a 'different' name. In fact, you generally can tell the partisan nature of any attack on Obama by the inclusion of the middle name or not, which is quite something. George Bush was 'George W Bush' mostly to differentiate him from his father, who was president not that long before. That's reasonable. But no other president in the modern era has had a middle name emphasized in this odd way. Strange, no?
Because I don't live in your country and most names I hear from there are generic western names like john or carter etc. It's like if NZ had a "Mark Hung-Hi Hill" as prime minister. It's just not what you expect really. Is it really hard to understand why that name might sound a little different for a US president?
Im not attacking Obama, im merely saying I actually thought a poster was joking and making up a name or something. In fact I have never heard that name before despite hearing a lot of anti Obama stuff.
No need to be upset dude.
2015/09/17 22:33:36
Subject: Re:Former Nobel director regrets giving President Obama Nobel Peace Prize
It is plain as day that Obama got the award from being elected while black. At the time the award was made he had done nothing of any significance except be elected POTUS. While not an insignificant act as and of itself it is hardly meritous of the Nobel peace prize.
Still it could be worse, Adolf Hitler received enough nominations for the Noble peace prize in 1937 that the committee considered him, and by all accounts were not that far off awarding him it.
I will park this here.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
