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The Tyranids don't need to "win" and aren't seeking to either. No more than you are seeking to "defeat" your packed lunch. They have a simple goal of surviving and growing, that's it. And once they've had their fill of the Galaxy, they'll move on.

Plenty of planets will survive, either due to having low biomass, or being somewhere in a sparsely populated (by stars) region of space that would make a trip there a net energy loss. The Tyranids could certainly ruin Galactic civilization, but multi-system species such as Humanity won't be wiped out, and will still exist, albeit in a vastly diminished sense. The Imperium would be destroyed, but individual lucky planets, still protected by a Space Marine chapter, could continue to hold out have a decent life. If they later fell, it'd likely be to a subsequent opportunist Chaos incursion, not the Tyranids.

The Craftworld Eldar could just avoid them. The Dark Eldar too (though their slave supply would dry up) Chaos would survive in the Warp, though be diminished due to a lack of followers, and the Necrons don't require biomass to survive. The Orks would recover quickly too where they could, though the remaining habitats that support them would be very small, and there'd be barely anyone left to fight.

If the Tyranids "win", and move on, the actual winners are the Eldar. The lack of sentients will hugely diminish Chaos and the Dark Eldar, and Humans and Orks will be reduced to Eldar-like numbers, allowing them to rule the Galaxy once more due to superior technology. Their only rivals would be the Necrons, and the Eldar were supposedly designed to be an anti-Necron weapon by the Old Ones.

Can the Necrons win? They are hubris personified, really, so it's tricky. Yes, they have a huge tech advantage, but their sectarian squabbles and colossal bitterness and arrogance could easily be their downfall. It's why they're in the sorry state they are now. I mean, what good is intelligence without wisdom? I can see them standing in the way of their own victory - possibly even letting a vengeful C'tan loose, either by accident or design, that goes on to cause their downfall.

The whole reason the silent king returned to the galaxy was due to him bumping into the nids, who were on their way to the milky way buffet, and realising their nom nomming would ruin the plan of the necrons to find a biological race to perform a reverse biotransference on.

With this being the case you would expect to see the necrons either harvesting populations to keep them 'safe' or stepping in to stop hive fleets from consuming potentially useful worlds / systems. At the end you could be left with parts of the galaxy stripped of life by the nids with necron dynastys and any protected worlds holding out against them. It would then depend on the hive mind deciding to head to another galaxy or getting into a war with the necrons for the remaining biomass.

Chaos for me doesn't come into it. If everything in realspace is eaten or under necron control there's going to be a lot less activity in the warp.

Just a nitpick on orks and environments.. We have multiple instances of orks living on, and thriving on, asteroids that seem impossibly unlikely to support life. So orks would not particularly care much.


As for the IoM. Before that happens the empy will be coming back, likely as a chaos god.

 raiden wrote:
Just a nitpick on orks and environments.. We have multiple instances of orks living on, and thriving on, asteroids that seem impossibly unlikely to support life. So orks would not particularly care much.


As for the IoM. Before that happens the empy will be coming back, likely as a chaos god.

I believe you mean 'Warp God.' Also, what guarantee do we have that Emps will rise before the psychic awakening is complete?

 Psienesis wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

Codex: Necrons disagrees.

Codex Necron doesn't specifically say Necrons get possessed, only that the tomb had been possessed and the necron awoke to their tomb changed and the occupants in combat.

Codex Necrons also provides plenty of evidence that the Necrons fear the Warp, insofar as they are capable of such an emotion, hence all their super-tech null-fields and the like. If they had nothing to fear from the Warp, they wouldn't need these things. We know, however, that the trillions of them that died during the War in Heaven are not immune to Warp-based weapons, since that is what the Old Ones used.

The Codex also goes on to say that the hyper-phasic abilities of the Necrons are no defense from the denizens of the Warp, who find them "new flavors of Reality to corrupt."

 asorel wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Just a nitpick on orks and environments.. We have multiple instances of orks living on, and thriving on, asteroids that seem impossibly unlikely to support life. So orks would not particularly care much.


As for the IoM. Before that happens the empy will be coming back, likely as a chaos god.

I believe you mean 'Warp God.' Also, what guarantee do we have that Emps will rise before the psychic awakening is complete?

A BL book reference where 'angels of fire' speak to, IIRC abbadon, saying to go no further, and of these same 'angels' fighting for the big E already.

 Tyran wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Nids can be corrupted, as they are living creatures, but it depends on how many of them are present vs the local strength of the Warp.

If the Warp-taint is particularly strong, it can "drown out" the Shadow in the Warp. Once that happens, the bugs go feral, and some get possessed. Then? Then things go very bad for the Tyranids.

Everything with matter can be corrupted by Chaos. Necrons are even easier than Nids as they lack the protection of a "Shadow". And we have yet to see the warp-taint "drown out" the Hive Mind.

this is categorically untrue. If something doesn't have a presence in the warp, it cannot be corrupted by chaos. machines even as lowly as bolters and las rifles have Machine Spirits that register in the Warp, Necrons however are completely null to the warp as a result of biotransference. So Chaos cannot corrupt necrons or any part of their society as their technoogy functions absent of the warp.

Chaos has corrupted things like planets and even stars. Warp presence makes thing far easier, but it isn't necessary.

However, if something so simple as a Bolter has a presence in the Warp, then would not something as complex as a planet or as mighty as a star also have a soul? The planet would have its own biosphere, filled with animals that die and contribute their souls to the planet's being (see: Codex: Lost and the Damned), which would mean that, if anything, it would be easier to corrupt something like a planet, with its highly developed wellpool of primitive animal souls, then it would be to corrupt something like a Bolter, which has had thousands of Space Marines pouring their energies of devotion and fervent anti-Chaos-ness poured into it.

But Warp-touched bolters exist. As do bits of broken glass from windows that offer a glimpse into the Warp for those who are unwise enough to peer into them.

Unless something has dedicated and specific protections against the Warp, then it can (and, eventually, will be) corrupted.

The oft-mentioned ravages of time on the Necron hordes indicate that they are not immune to the decay of rust and age... so it would seem that Nurgle, at the least, has a bit of a finger-hold in there.

It is also important to note that there is a difference between corruption and actually falling to Chaos.

The bodies of Necrons or Tyranids can be corrupted as any type of matter. But they aren't going to fall to Chaos, at most they will malfunction and die.

And Chaos is going to get nothing from them as they lack souls.

All of this discussion is moot. The coming of either the Necrons or the Tyranids in full numbers will herald the Great Waaagh! and all will be turned green. The Orks unite under any scenario where there is a galaxy-wide war, as they will be instantly attracted to such a combat. They will also be made immensely strong by it. There is the example of the system where Orks and Tyrands have been locked in an endless struggle and all the Orks have evolved into Nobs due to the constant fighting. Either side will have their party ruined by the unrelenting Orkiness of it all. Will the Orks win? Well, since all they want is a good fight, then yes. Will the Tyranids win? They will certainly have their fill of biomass. An endless, fungal biomass. Will the Necrons win? They will have only a few options. Destroy their planets to eradicate the Ork infestation, return to their vaults and wait for the Orks to get bored and move on, or be crushed under the weight of Teleporting Orks, Rock "starships" crashing into their planets, and the unyielding, unrelenting, and almost always cackling sea of green.

I would say all praise Gork and Mork. But they don't want your praise. They want you to put up a good fight as best you can.

Given that there are potentially an innumerable number of Nid fleets still on their way and quite possibly nothing left at all in the Universes bar them.
Im going with Nids.

The reverse is also potentially true. That is, there are no more 'Nids waiting beyond the galactic edge, and what has arrived is all there is.

Except that in the last two Nid codices and IG 5th iirc it says that these fleets are just the vanguard of much larger fleets.

Whether larger means 2 more or 2 billion more is speculation but cannon-wise the Nids certainly do have more fleets on the way.
Could be a single bioship, could be.....

That's a common belief in the Imperium, but how would they know? They lack the means to peer past the galactic edge to any distance worth mentioning in the scale of space.

That is true of the iom but GW fluff writers in the Nid codicies have said they are vanguards.
Hence more to come I feel.

I dont discount the Crons chance btw, their tech as per IA12 is bonkers but if the Nid numbers stack up and they adapt (again) it wont matter.

I actually see Nids biggest weaknesses in space/fleet abilities, not groundpounding.

Some cool thoughts in here! But I can't believe so few people voted for the tyranids "winning". I can definitely see the argument that it's not their goal to take out the necrons (no biomass), but they might just get caught up in the collateral damage of the nids taking out most of the rest of the galaxy. Perhaps a stalemate was the better choice...

It's mainly because the Tyranids are the one creature that pretty much any other faction will ally, however temporarily, with the rest to stand against.

 Ashiraya wrote:
There are three major players for victory in 40k: Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons.

Who it will be depends on many factors and is difficult to say.

Orks too if Ghazzy succeeds in uniting them, summoning Gork and Mork as they want him to.

Any endgame scenario in 40k is either Tyranids or Oks versus Necrons.

Necrons already won once, there's no reason to presume they wouldn't at least be winning again.

And Tyranids and Orks, unlike the other factions, actually get stronger as they win. So their early victories would only multiply their strength.

Necron fleets would almost certainly dominate the Tyranids in space due their ships being superior in every way. They should be easily capable of engaging Hive Fleets in between star systems where they mostly hibernate (if I recall correctly) as well as simply maintain a superior speed whilst firing their considerably more potent weaponry. Additionally I suspect Null fields used by Necrons may be capable of crippling Tyranid invasions on planets at least if not also damaging their coordination in space. I can't actually see a way the Tyranids would be able to match a considerable Necron force.

Even the Imperium should be probably be stomping on the Tyranids. Judging by Hive Fleet Behemoth the Tyranids would probably be fairly easy to defeat using more Warp Drive detonations. The Imperium has no shortage of fanatics willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause. The Adeptus Mechanicus would likely be capable of creating sufficient ships between each Hive Fleet for Warp Drive detonations to suck them all into the Warp and destroy them. Should the Tyranids spread out to counter this strategy then they'd become easy prey for the superior firepower of the Imperium. That said that piece of background was ill thought out since pretty much any threat could be countered in a similar way.

The Imperium has no shortage of manpower, but they certainly have a shortage of ships to destroy in detonating their Warp Drives.

It takes decades to centuries for the AdMech to build a vessel capable of fitting a Warp Drive.

 Psienesis wrote:

It takes decades to centuries for the AdMech to build a vessel capable of fitting a Warp Drive.

Isn't there a passage where a Lunar Class cruiser is built in orbit of a feral world in seven years? With the number of spacedocks the Imperium must possess I imagine they could actually churn out quite a number. They don't have to properly arm them either. Plus the Tyranids are supposed to be really slow anyway. If a single Warp Drive self-destruct devastated a Hive Fleet on the cusp of victory it shouldn't take much more to take out whole Hive Fleets.

Except that the IoM hasn't used that tactic again, even thought it would have made things far easier. So there must be a limiting factor... or simply plot stupidity.

It's the fact that the writers don't comprehend galactic scale very well.

If the Tyranids stretch back lightyears from a system to the galaxy's edge (and beyond), then detonating the Warp Drive near the system in question is actually not doing much of anything at all.

Now, if there are not so many Tyranids as implied, and the invasion fleets do not, in fact, go from the galaxy's edge (and beyond) inward to wherever the vanguard-fleets are located then, sure, destroying them in space by trashing your fleet (while somehow defending yourself from Dark Eldar Pirates, Tau, Necrons and Chaos Armadas) is a great plan.

 Tyran wrote:
Except that the IoM hasn't used that tactic again, even thought it would have made things far easier. So there must be a limiting factor... or simply plot stupidity.

Or, if Chaos entities were to be sufficiently present, it could create a micro-EoT


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Some cool thoughts in here! But I can't believe so few people voted for the tyranids "winning". I can definitely see the argument that it's not their goal to take out the necrons (no biomass), but they might just get caught up in the collateral damage of the nids taking out most of the rest of the galaxy. Perhaps a stalemate was the better choice...

Necrons > everthing in terms of Void combat. Since everybody relies upon the Void to get from planet to planet, Necrons > everyone period. Of course, the Imperium or the Eldar (or similarly advanced species) could beat Necrons in Naval combat, Imperium by virtue of DAoT superweapons + sheer numbers, Eldar through actually competent technology. When people say that Orks or Tyranids could defeat united Necrons, it seems almost as if they're completely disregarding the fact that Void superiority unequivocally means victory for a race such as the Necrons, as they need no food, no water, no resources of any kind (except for whatever metals they use to create Necrodermis). Necrons don't need planets, they just want to farm sentient species to (hopefully) find a species similar to the Necrontyr, and thus be able to return to physical flesh once more. What this means is that Necrons beat Orks via Void superiority, and same with 'NIds.

 Tyran wrote:
Except that the IoM hasn't used that tactic again, even thought it would have made things far easier. So there must be a limiting factor... or simply plot stupidity.

Apparently in one of the books Uriel Ventris tries it with albeit with some space refinery. This goes badly however as their plan is to shoot it once it reaches Tyranid lines and the Tyranids intercept the shots and use it against them.

dusara217 wrote:Since everybody relies upon the Void to get from planet to planet, Necrons > everyone period.

It's much worse for the Tyranids though. They travel through realspace even when going FTL. The Necrons would be able to intercept them in the void between star systems. Most Tyranids hibernate during those journeys if I recall correctly as well. Orks at least have unpredictable and sometimes incredibly potent technology and firepower. Teleportation, for instance, they are arguably better at than any bar the Necrons themselves. Orkish ships can also be very powerful. Considering the nature of Necron weaponry would it be likely to set off secondary explosions (which seems to be a large part of why Orkish machinery can be fragile)?

It is a game of numbers. While the Necron ships are far superior, the Tyranid Hive Fleets can be very large.

Regardless of the size of the next fleets, even assuming they are exponentially larger than the vanguard, the fleets that have been seen have been defeated or stopped with less than .01% of the available forces in the galaxy.

The only way the Tyranids win is if the galaxy remains as fractured as it currently is and the Necrons are far weaker than stated or that they remain broken purely along dyanstic lines.

 PhillyT wrote:
Regardless of the size of the next fleets, even assuming they are exponentially larger than the vanguard, the fleets that have been seen have been defeated or stopped with less than .01% of the available forces in the galaxy.

The only way the Tyranids win is if the galaxy remains as fractured as it currently is and the Necrons are far weaker than stated or that they remain broken purely along dyanstic lines.

The galaxy is incredibly fractured, the only large organization is the IoM, and it suffers of massive coordination and communication issues.