Why people think human plasma are stupid?

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**Bookwrack**

asorel wrote:
Fluff-wise, I doubt it happens as often as one in six times. And you still have a chance to drop the gun if it Gets Hot. Finally, if we assume that the overheating is due to poor training, that doesn't stop AdMech (and possibly certain chapters of SM) from effectively fielding them.

I always figured, from a fluff perspective, the chance of Gets Hot being so high in-game is a result of the fact that in battlefield conditions, it's not really poor training but the fact that given the choice of pulling the trigger more often than they know the cooling system can take, vs having a warboss rip their face off, they take the risk with shooting more.

**Psienesis**

Fluff-wise, Gaunt's counterpart Commissar carried a plasma pistol throughout his career, wielding it in a hundred battles, and never had a problem with it besides running out of ammunition a couple times.

**Alcibiades**

Fluff is self-contradictory, since there is no central "fluff database" that everyone is drawing on, but it changes depending on what the author is going for. Whether plasma blows up a lot or not depends on the atmosphere the author is trying to create. If it is grimdark horror, it will blow up. If it is heroic military fiction, it will never blow up.

Since nowhere is it laid in stone which of these versions is "true," these discussions are futile.

But this goes without saying I suppose.

**oldzoggy**

I expect my plasma henchmen to die, the sad thing is that I have to keep them in transports to avoid taking moral tests from their own shooting :\

**Baldeagle91**

Mehhh I have a fair few plasma pistols in my guard army.... never actually gotten hot in recent memory....

**oldzoggy**

I remember my dual wielding plasma pistol SM veteran squad experiment....

**Baldeagle91**

oldzoggy wrote:
I remember my dual wielding plasma pistol SM veteran squad experiment....

Guess it didn't end well?

**master of ordinance**

The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

**Martel732**

master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Use them anyway. Against nearly every 3+ or 2+ armor target, you are coming out way, way ahead. If you are worried about losing some to gets hot!, bring more.

**Selym**

master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Yeah, the IG has durability issues without killing its own men/

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Use them anyway. Against nearly every 3+ or 2+ armor target, you are coming out way, way ahead. If you are worried about losing some to gets hot!, bring more.

Take a LR Executioner with PC sponsons, and a Tech Priest.

**Jimsolo**

I have run plasma devastator teams before, never had a problem.

**oldzoggy**

Baldeagle91 wrote:
oldzoggy wrote:
I remember my dual wielding plasma pistol SM veteran squad experiment....

Guess it didn't end well?

Ehm no of course not what are you talking about it went great. They killed everything on the board and never got burned at all. I just happen to have a nicely painted dual wielding full squad of them for sale ,are you interested ?

**Selym**

oldzoggy wrote:
Baldeagle91 wrote:
oldzoggy wrote:
I remember my dual wielding plasma pistol SM veteran squad experiment....

Guess it didn't end well?

Ehm no of course not what are you talking about it went great. They killed everything on the board and never got burned at all. I just happen to have a nicely painted dual wielding full squad of them for sale ,are you interested ?

I lul'd

**master of ordinance**

Martel732 wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Use them anyway. Against nearly every 3+ or 2+ armor target, you are coming out way, way ahead. If you are worried about losing some to gets hot!, bring more.

Guard accuracy plus cover. After you have factored all that in you find yourself doing very little for very much.

Besides Plasma Sentinels are a thing too.

**Martel732**

master of ordinance wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Use them anyway. Against nearly every 3+ or 2+ armor target, you are coming out way, way ahead. If you are worried about losing some to gets hot!, bring more.

Guard accuracy plus cover. After you have factored all that in you find yourself doing very little for very much.

Besides Plasma Sentinels are a thing too.

On the contrary, its quite devastating. Guard accuracy is 3/4 that of marines, and make sure you opponents have to move through no cover areas to get to you. For objective campers, use weight of fire lasguns. This works. I've seen it work many, many times.

**Grey Templar**

toasteroven wrote:
"Frequently kills its user" seems like a pretty significant con, to me.

Only for the person holding it.

The Imperium's single most abundant resource is living bodies. I've done conservative estimates of the Imperium's birth rates and estimated they could sustain losses in excess of 400-500 trillion people a year. Thats with planetary populations on the low end and with only a 1% population growth. Make it a more realistic 5% and have middle of the road populations and you have quadrillions of soldiers per year that you can feed into the meat grinder.

It should also be pointed out that Gets Hot does NOT represent the gun blowing up. It represents the weapon's emergency cooling systems injuring the wielder to the point where he cannot participate in the battle any more. The weapon is perfectly fine 99.9999% of the time. Thats why you don't lose the weapon if a multi-wound model takes a wound from Gets Hot, the weapon is still fine.

There should be a way for dudes in the squad to pick up the special weapons if the guy holding it dies. Like if he's within 1" of another non-character model in the unit that model is replaced with the special/heavy weapon dude.

**master of ordinance**

Martel732 wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
The big downside of it killing it user is what stops me going all out on plasma vets. The idea of several already overpriced 26 point models blitzing themselves every turn kind of puts me off them.

Use them anyway. Against nearly every 3+ or 2+ armor target, you are coming out way, way ahead. If you are worried about losing some to gets hot!, bring more.

Guard accuracy plus cover. After you have factored all that in you find yourself doing very little for very much.

Besides Plasma Sentinels are a thing too.

On the contrary, its quite devastating. Guard accuracy is 3/4 that of marines, and make sure you opponents have to move through no cover areas to get to you. For objective campers, use weight of fire lasguns. This works. I've seen it work many, many times.

This assumes the perfect situation. I can assure you that this almost never comes up (unless playing inexperienced/timmy players). It is a sad thing really - I would love to set up and plasma to death some MEQ's

**DarknessEternal**

The Imperium views casualties from plasma weapons in the exact light players do: acceptable.

If players really thought the casualties were too bad, they wouldn't be fielding a dozen plasma guns per army.

**oldzoggy**

Hot does NOT represent the gun blowing up.

Something like this ?

Emergency overload, what do do with all the electricity generated ehm I don't know just don't create plasma. That would ruin the gun, lets ehm let it flow safely away to the ground trough the user. Yeah that could work.

**Grey Templar**

DarknessEternal wrote:
The Imperium views casualties from plasma weapons in the exact light players do: acceptable.

Yup. Much like the Russians in WW2. Only half the guys got weapons, the other half only got ammo, the guys without rifles had to pick up guns from the guys who died.

Fortunately for the Imperial Guard, lasguns are cheap enough to where everyone gets one. But its still 3 times as valuable as your life

**jreilly89**

Grey Templar wrote:
toasteroven wrote:
"Frequently kills its user" seems like a pretty significant con, to me.

Only for the person holding it.

The Imperium's single most abundant resource is living bodies. I've done conservative estimates of the Imperium's birth rates and estimated they could sustain losses in excess of 400-500 trillion people a year. Thats with planetary populations on the low end and with only a 1% population growth. Make it a more realistic 5% and have middle of the road populations and you have quadrillions of soldiers per year that you can feed into the meat grinder.

It should also be pointed out that Gets Hot does NOT represent the gun blowing up. It represents the weapon's emergency cooling systems injuring the wielder to the point where he cannot participate in the battle any more. The weapon is perfectly fine 99.9999% of the time. Thats why you don't lose the weapon if a multi-wound model takes a wound from Gets Hot, the weapon is still fine.

There should be a way for dudes in the squad to pick up the special weapons if the guy holding it dies. Like if he's within 1" of another non-character model in the unit that model is replaced with the special/heavy weapon dude.

Like a LOS roll? If so, I'd take plasma WAY more.

**Grey Templar**

More like a Take Up rule.

**alex0911**

bibotot wrote:
Why? Games Workshop and Black Library have both been coming up with terrible ideas recently, but this one remains the biggest stupidity I have ever seen. Why the human plasma weapons used by the Imperium of Man and the Forces of Chaos are considered inferior? Here is a rundown list of pros and cons compared to other plasma weapons:

Cons:

- It blows up in your face.

Pros:

- It is Strength 7 compared to Strength 6 of Eldar and Tau plasma and equal to Ork plasma.

- It can be made compact enough that an average infantryman can carry around with ease. Tau and Eldar plasma are too large and has to be mounted of platforms, vehicles and battlesuits.

- It is widely available. Almost any Imperial Guards and Space Marines unit can grab themselves a plasma weapon. Such thing is impossible for other races. You don't see the normal Ork boyz running around with a Custom Blasta. He needs to be extremely rich and skilled to handle that thing.

Whichever the case, it depends on the user. A skilled user will have little to know chance of blowing up his plasma weapon (BS6 or higher).

So why? I am close to giving up on GW giving good world building and compelling logic at this point.

Ill end the discussion right now

GRAV GUNS > Plasma in almost every ways, plus you dont kill yourself...

Post is over.

**Gamgee**

I think it's stupid. My Rogue Trader used his signature master crafted plasma pistol handed down by a famous war hero made for him by the best servitors.

I also used a master crafted bolt pistol.

I almost got my hands on a Tau Pulse Pistol. So close. So much better in almost every way. :( If it wasn't for that meddling inquisitor. Oh well she'll die next we meet and get the awesome tau weapons cache we were going to buy.

Oh i was also going to buy a Dark Eldar splinter rifle and some mercs with Khymeras for use in saving a planet. Almost.

**JinxDragon**

The 16.5% chance of self inflicted Wounds is a little too high for my likings... I won't even consider using a Weapon with the Get Hot Special Rule with a few unique exceptions.
Still curious what the RPG is like, if only I had someone who could run such a game.

**AegisGrimm**

Plasma guns are stupid after 2nd edition, where Imperial/Chaos were different with an actual fluffy reason representing tech improvement since the Heresy, and while they needed a turn to recharge, Imperial versions never killed the user.

**casvalremdeikun**

Now that Imperial Fists Sternguard get to reroll ones, I am probably going to use Vengeance rounds a lot more. Mow through PA stuff a lot easier. That reroll of the one makes it even less likely to receive Gets Hot, let alone actually wound from it. Too bad I can't get FNP on the Sternguard. That would be awesome.

**marcman**

If you have preferred enemy like Skitarii warlords you get to reroll your one

**Filch**

If they changed it so that a to hit roll of 1s gets hot but successfully hits the target with +1 str and -1ap then that would be a great trade off. The bearer still gets hurt but he still gets a powerful shot off. That would make it comparable to xeno safe plasma.

**flamingkillamajig**

bibotot wrote:
Why? Games Workshop and Black Library have both been coming up with terrible ideas recently, but this one remains the biggest stupidity I have ever seen. Why the human plasma weapons used by the Imperium of Man and the Forces of Chaos are considered inferior? Here is a rundown list of pros and cons compared to other plasma weapons:

Cons:

- It blows up in your face.

Pros:

- It is Strength 7 compared to Strength 6 of Eldar and Tau plasma and equal to Ork plasma.

- It can be made compact enough that an average infantryman can carry around with ease. Tau and Eldar plasma are too large and has to be mounted of platforms, vehicles and battlesuits.

- It is widely available. Almost any Imperial Guards and Space Marines unit can grab themselves a plasma weapon. Such thing is impossible for other races. You don't see the normal Ork boyz running around with a Custom Blasta. He needs to be extremely rich and skilled to handle that thing.

Whichever the case, it depends on the user. A skilled user will have little to know chance of blowing up his plasma weapon (BS6 or higher).

So why? I am close to giving up on GW giving good world building and compelling logic at this point.

Dude you never saw your universe congealed into a steaming pile of stupid like when warhammer fantasy turned into age of sigmar. I will never let that one down. For all intents and purposes GW raises both middle fingers and took a giant drill of butt rape into each and every fantasy players bottoms. It was hands down by far the worst thing GW has ever done to me as a customer. I was madder than kharn. I still can't get away from going to the GW site without seeing those stupid sigmarines and going into a rage.