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The only thing I find incredibly stupid about Imperial/Chaos plasma weaponry, is I'm stupid enough to continue using it...

One of the last times I used a Plasma gun + cannon Tac squad thinking "how bad could things possibly get?", their first shooting opportunity of game, plasma gunner nukes himself, while the cannon dude scatters an absolutely perfect 11" strait back into his own squad and blows apart 4 more dudes.
I popped off the Sergeant's pistol thinking, "how much worse can things get?", and yep, sure enough, dead Sergeant.

I routinely kill more of my guys with plasma weaponry, but I'm too dumb for my own good to stop using it. Hell, I once successfully tabled myself by shooting a plasma gun + pistol with my last 2 surviving dudes!

You must have bad luck. Plasma worked fairly well when I had them with imperial guard. I mostly used them on veteran squads back then as well as melta vet squads. Both worked for different things but they were good if I remember. If I recall some people must have stolen some of my models though.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You must have bad luck. Plasma worked fairly well when I had them with imperial guard. I mostly used them on veteran squads back then as well as melta vet squads. Both worked for different things but they were good if I remember. If I recall some people must have stolen some of my models though.

Oddly enough, I converted up a single lone plasma gunner when I was playing my IG Drop Troops... Used some green stuff to model a bunch of bionics on the Veteran's face, plus painted his one hand to look like bionics as well.
That guy passed more 5+ armour saves from overheats than I could count!

I don't know what it is about Marines and my dice, but it's always been a recipe for absolute disaster. (same with my old Bretonnians as well, but they at least had the good grace to always die in droves to S3 arrows, so rubber lance syndrome wasn't nearly as soul crushing an issue there!)

Experiment 626 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You must have bad luck. Plasma worked fairly well when I had them with imperial guard. I mostly used them on veteran squads back then as well as melta vet squads. Both worked for different things but they were good if I remember. If I recall some people must have stolen some of my models though.

I don't know what it is about Marines and my dice, but it's always been a recipe for absolute disaster. (same with my old Bretonnians as well, but they at least had the good grace to always die in droves to S3 arrows, so rubber lance syndrome wasn't nearly as soul crushing an issue there!)

That feel, bro. I know it. Former Bretonnian, current CSM army routinely cooks themselves with their own guns, my Guard shrug it off like any other flesh wound. It's bizarre.

Used to run an old BA army stacked with plasma (3 units of plasma devs, plasma cannon, gun and pistol on tacs etc)

However, I soon realised I was doing more damage to myself than the enemy.
Also, I round they were trying to fill different roles which is never a good idea.
So ended up running melta/flamer to do separate jobs.

Greetings my good Gue'la, if you don't like your plasma weaponry, then we have a simple solution for you. Come and join the greater good and it will provide you with what you seek, you are free to not join, but then your plasma might explode on you, so you know my dear little Gue'la it's all win-win once you join the Tau.

alex0911 wrote:

Ill end the discussion right now

GRAV GUNS > Plasma in almost every ways, plus you dont kill yourself...

Post is over.

As a Covens player, I approve of this wholeheartedly.

I'm sure the daemons appreciate it too.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You must have bad luck. Plasma worked fairly well when I had them with imperial guard. I mostly used them on veteran squads back then as well as melta vet squads. Both worked for different things but they were good if I remember. If I recall some people must have stolen some of my models though.

Oddly enough, I converted up a single lone plasma gunner when I was playing my IG Drop Troops... Used some green stuff to model a bunch of bionics on the Veteran's face, plus painted his one hand to look like bionics as well.
That guy passed more 5+ armour saves from overheats than I could count!

I don't know what it is about Marines and my dice, but it's always been a recipe for absolute disaster. (same with my old Bretonnians as well, but they at least had the good grace to always die in droves to S3 arrows, so rubber lance syndrome wasn't nearly as soul crushing an issue there!)

Well for me it was more the case I had so many plasma guns I didn't care when they overheated. When you have 9-12 plasma gun guys it's a little tough to care when 2-3 bite it. Normally I only shot monsters with them. I do remember some epic mawloc and trygon kills I got with them. If I remember I even took them both down in the same shooting phase when they showed up. The 5th edition guard codex must've been really OP in 5th edition. Eldar and tau were a bit hard for me to handle back then though.

Also consider I normally used the plasma against monsters and terminators so chances are when they died their job was mostly done anyway.

Oh and dice luck is very weird. I once saw terminators deal with orks for forever in combat (taking no losses) and once the orks at the end of the game shot sluggas at em and they failed 3 armor saves and I high five'd the ork player. Sometimes the saves are impenetrable but fail quite a bit at really weird times. GW seemed like a better place back then though.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You must have bad luck. Plasma worked fairly well when I had them with imperial guard. I mostly used them on veteran squads back then as well as melta vet squads. Both worked for different things but they were good if I remember. If I recall some people must have stolen some of my models though.

Oddly enough, I converted up a single lone plasma gunner when I was playing my IG Drop Troops... Used some green stuff to model a bunch of bionics on the Veteran's face, plus painted his one hand to look like bionics as well.
That guy passed more 5+ armour saves from overheats than I could count!

I don't know what it is about Marines and my dice, but it's always been a recipe for absolute disaster. (same with my old Bretonnians as well, but they at least had the good grace to always die in droves to S3 arrows, so rubber lance syndrome wasn't nearly as soul crushing an issue there!)

Well for me it was more the case I had so many plasma guns I didn't care when they overheated. When you have 9-12 plasma gun guys it's a little tough to care when 2-3 bite it. Normally I only shot monsters with them. I do remember some epic mawloc and trygon kills I got with them. If I remember I even took them both down in the same shooting phase when they showed up. The 5th edition guard codex must've been really OP in 5th edition. Eldar and tau were a bit hard for me to handle back then though.

Also consider I normally used the plasma against monsters and terminators so chances are when they died their job was mostly done anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I love to take plasma specifically for dealing with TEQ's and T6/3+ or better save MC's. It's just a sad fact that with Marines/Chaos Marines especially, it's going to blow up massively in my face...
Heck, it was even more amusing back in 4th ed, when shooting multiple shots with a 'Gets Hot' weapon would actually increase the rate at which overheats happened! (ie: single shot hurt you on a 1, but double tapping plasma guns hurt on a 1 & 2, while a 3 shot weapon would overheat on a 1, 2 AND 3!!)
I had Space Marines exploding themselves faster than a 5 alarm call at a Fireworks factory.

One thing I really enjoy with Chaos Marines is being able to double up, or else take 3-4 plasmas within a single squad. Especially with the likes of Havocs for Termicide, it's in theory a great MSU unit for nuking other expensive, elite units. My dice just don't seem to want to ever agree with it.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Oh and dice luck is very weird. I once saw terminators deal with orks for forever in combat (taking no losses) and once the orks at the end of the game shot sluggas at em and they failed 3 armor saves and I high five'd the ork player. Sometimes the saves are impenetrable but fail quite a bit at really weird times. GW seemed like a better place back then though.

Well, way back in 3rd edition, my local GW store banned me from ever using Cypher anymore in the weekly mega battle events after I failed his special 4++ on 3D6 save... (and I was even allow to re-roll it too. )

I know it might sound like it's impossible for any one person to roll consistently abysmal dice, but I do. Dice simply don't like me.

Buddy had probably 8 plasma gunners in his army last night, I think he killed off 6 himself...

@Experiment 626: I think I remember 4th though I didn't play it much. That was during the time guard were not that fantastic and people pitied them and their doctrines. Some doctrines were hilarious though with the camo cloaks (in one case my guardsmen were hit with a demolisher cannon in a ruin and I had at least a 3+ cover save and lost like at most 3 guys out of 10 or so hit), sharpshooters and a couple others being really nice. Sadly I also built my army around infiltrating veterans so I had next to no fast moving elements when the 5th edition guard book came out. It was funny back then when you could infiltrate with melta vets. That said considering all the things we gained with 5th I'd rather have that book. Funny how true it is that most books are a constant arms race and every new release tends to be more powerful than the last. I just wish the game had more balance.

Also get new dice for both your sakes. You may have gotten some unlucky moldings that probably had bubbles in the plastic effecting your dice rolls.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Well, way back in 3rd edition, my local GW store banned me from ever using Cypher anymore in the weekly mega battle events after I failed his special 4++ on 3D6 save... (and I was even allow to re-roll it too. )

...Why would that warrant a ban?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Well, way back in 3rd edition, my local GW store banned me from ever using Cypher anymore in the weekly mega battle events after I failed his special 4++ on 3D6 save... (and I was even allow to re-roll it too. )

...Why would that warrant a ban?

Because failing that badly is utterly terrible and actual lines for having the character killed off in the fluff

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@Experiment 626: I think I remember 4th though I didn't play it much. That was during the time guard were not that fantastic and people pitied them and their doctrines. Some doctrines were hilarious though with the camo cloaks (in one case my guardsmen were hit with a demolisher cannon in a ruin and I had at least a 3+ cover save and lost like at most 3 guys out of 10 or so hit), sharpshooters and a couple others being really nice. Sadly I also built my army around infiltrating veterans so I had next to no fast moving elements when the 5th edition guard book came out. It was funny back then when you could infiltrate with melta vets. That said considering all the things we gained with 5th I'd rather have that book. Funny how true it is that most books are a constant arms race and every new release tends to be more powerful than the last. I just wish the game had more balance.

Also get new dice for both your sakes. You may have gotten some unlucky moldings that probably had bubbles in the plastic effecting your dice rolls.

I've bought scads of dice over the years, from hobby stores across Barrie, to Windsor/Sarnia & London, west to Kitchener/Cambridge/Waterloo and up and down the GTA lakeshore corridor. (thank-you rep hockey!) I even bought a box of dice from the UK during our hockey team's trip to England & Scotland for a series of friendlies in '99!

I simply suck at rolling dice... unless Daemons are involved, at which point I pass enough 5++ saves to earn accusations of loaded dice & cheating.

I blame Tzeentch.

There's no cons to running plasma as long as you're admech in a war convocation.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
@Experiment 626: I think I remember 4th though I didn't play it much. That was during the time guard were not that fantastic and people pitied them and their doctrines. Some doctrines were hilarious though with the camo cloaks (in one case my guardsmen were hit with a demolisher cannon in a ruin and I had at least a 3+ cover save and lost like at most 3 guys out of 10 or so hit), sharpshooters and a couple others being really nice. Sadly I also built my army around infiltrating veterans so I had next to no fast moving elements when the 5th edition guard book came out. It was funny back then when you could infiltrate with melta vets. That said considering all the things we gained with 5th I'd rather have that book. Funny how true it is that most books are a constant arms race and every new release tends to be more powerful than the last. I just wish the game had more balance.

Also get new dice for both your sakes. You may have gotten some unlucky moldings that probably had bubbles in the plastic effecting your dice rolls.

I've bought scads of dice over the years, from hobby stores across Barrie, to Windsor/Sarnia & London, west to Kitchener/Cambridge/Waterloo and up and down the GTA lakeshore corridor. (thank-you rep hockey!) I even bought a box of dice from the UK during our hockey team's trip to England & Scotland for a series of friendlies in '99!

I simply suck at rolling dice... unless Daemons are involved, at which point I pass enough 5++ saves to earn accusations of loaded dice & cheating.

I blame Tzeentch.

Just how old are you to have played hockey in the UK at '99? Sorry if that's rude for asking.

You could also use the random rolls on places like 'universal battle' and 'vassal'. Far as the mods are concerned we can talk freely about this and even schedule games as I took days finding out the answer via pm's. Supposedly they just don't want to see pics of the battles on the forum which is rather unfortunate but understandable.

--------

More on topic is that plasma works for guard at least. These days if you want something for marines I'd say get grav guns. For chaos marines I have no idea what to do. Maybe pray to the dark gods (psychic phase) or something.

I tried asking a human plasma a question

Since they lack the proper anatomy of a human made of tissue required to speak I was left sitting awkwardly in the conference room without an answer until he left

Bugger didn't even bother opening the door, he just phased/melted right through it

That was the 6th one this week

Perhaps because they tend to explode and kill the user? Seems like a big drawback.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Just how old are you to have played hockey in the UK at '99? Sorry if that's rude for asking.

I was in my early years of high school - it was how our team spent March Break, after an entire year and a bit of fundraising, going across the pond to play some friendlies instead of staying home and getting 'voluntold' into helping out in our city's tournament, because there was no AA level bracket for us to play in. (and girls hockey doesn't hit AAA until Senior/NWHL level)

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
You could also use the random rolls on places like 'universal battle' and 'vassal'. Far as the mods are concerned we can talk freely about this and even schedule games as I took days finding out the answer via pm's. Supposedly they just don't want to see pics of the battles on the forum which is rather unfortunate but understandable.

--------

More on topic is that plasma works for guard at least. These days if you want something for marines I'd say get grav guns. For chaos marines I have no idea what to do. Maybe pray to the dark gods (psychic phase) or something.

I've had horrible luck downloading stuff in the past, plus I'm techno illiterate to be honest. (forum posting is high tech enough for me. ) I have no clue how those on-line games even work!

-------

For Chaos Marines, I think the best answer is to wait and see if/when we get a new codex... Considering what Tau are getting in terms of a release in Octauber, it does give some possibly faint hope that finally Chaos Marines could very well get a desperately needed face lift and with it, hopefully a couple new toys including a new chaotic gun or two that could more safely fulfill the roles that plasma is currently shoehorned into. (which right now is everything from anti-MEQ & TEQ + MC + medium/light AV)

I mean, it's just depressing when you compare the basic Chaos armoury to the basic Vanilla one!
Chaos weapon choices:
- Flamer
- Meltagun
- Plasma gun
- Heavy bolter
- Autocannon
- Missile launcher
- Lascannon

Vanilla Marine weapon choices:
- Flamer
- Meltagun
- Plasma gun
- Grav gun
- Heavy bolter
- Heavy flamer
- Plasma cannon
- Grav cannon w/amp
- Multi-melta
- Missile launcher
- Lascannon

Chaos is forced into bringing plasmas, no matter what, simply because there's no middle ground or 'safer' specialised options for dealing with various threats. (Gods I'd kill for a freaking heavy flamer!!)

Well if you're lucky maybe you'll have an answer to the grav gun soon with some sort of daemon powers. Could you imagine if you guys got an equivalent for the ork mek's crazy guns (name escapes me right now but it's the one that sucks up those orkoid creatures smaller than gretchin and spits em back out)? Not having a heavy flamer is also pretty pathetic considering you know you're chaos and they're basically daemonic. I mean some daemon skull shooting flames out of a flamethrower doesn't sound like a hard sell.