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Full quote.

"We're a pluralistic society. We're diverse, we have people that come from everywhere. We're not multicultural. We have a set of shared values that defines our national identity, and we should never veer away from that because that creates the extraordinary nature of our country."

Thoughts? Comments? Rage? Applause?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/25/politics/jeb-bush-free-stuff-black-voters/index.html

I agree that we have and should focus on our shared national identity instead of the insane focus on diversity and differences. The former promotes unity, the latter only promotes division.

And here is the article that actually matters in regards to the quote the OP used, as Jeb was using multicultural in its literal sense.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/jeb-bush-multiculturalism-attacks/index.html?eref=rss_politics

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And here is the article that actually matters in regards to the quote the OP used, as Jeb was using multicultural in its literal sense.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/jeb-bush-multiculturalism-attacks/index.html?eref=rss_politics

Solid link.

I guess the question at hand is whether or not one believes that the goal of immigration should be assimilation into the culture immigrated into.

We have a set of shared values that defines our national identity

Depends on what one thinks those "shared values" that "define our national identity" are.

I sympathized with Bush's comments here. I am left-wing, but for decades now, we have had an academic and media explosion of "multiculturalism" and "celebrate diversity", which in and of itself I suppose is not so bad, but it has led to the erosion of a common national identity, which I think in turn has encouraged some people and groups to feel that their differences are more important than their similarities with other Americans.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

I guess the question at hand is whether or not one believes that the goal of immigration should be assimilation into the culture immigrated into.

I absolutely agree that assimilation should be part of our immigration experience in the United States (to include learning English). I'm think might sorta agree with Bush on some immigration issues, or so it would seem. I think we sort of view it as helping people out of a bad situation, but we should also be pursuing policies that make immigration an economic driver, as he's said in both debates.

 Psienesis wrote:

We have a set of shared values that defines our national identity

Depends on what one thinks those "shared values" that "define our national identity" are.

Yes, very much so. People who say stuff like that tend to mean their vaules.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I agree that we have and should focus on our shared national identity instead of the insane focus on diversity and differences. The former promotes unity, the latter only promotes division.

Translation: "Everyone should think and look just like me because it's the only way to be a real American. If you don't think, act, and look just like me, you're just 'dividing' the country."

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I agree that we have and should focus on our shared national identity instead of the insane focus on diversity and differences. The former promotes unity, the latter only promotes division.

Translation: "Everyone should think and look just like me because it's the only way to be a real American. If you don't think, act, and look just like me, you're just 'dividing' the country."

Got something constructive? Or just a flamebaity response?

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Full quoteThoughts? Comments? Rage? Applause?

His statement is oxymoronic and I don't think he knows what the words "pluralistic' 'diverse' or 'multicultural' mean.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I agree that we have and should focus on our shared national identity instead of the insane focus on diversity and differences. The former promotes unity, the latter only promotes division.

Translation: "Everyone should think and look just like me because it's the only way to be a real American. If you don't think, act, and look just like me, you're just 'dividing' the country."

Got something constructive? Or just a flamebaity response?

Shouldn't you take your own advice? Saying everyone should be uniform isn't really all that constructive either.

I didn't say we should be uniform. I said we should focus on our shared culture instead of whats different about everyone.

<Nevermind, the quote I posted is disputed>

Edit: Nah, not gonna argue w/someone.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I didn't say we should be uniform. I said we should focus on our shared culture instead of whats different about everyone.

What is our "shared culture"? What defines it? How would you describe it to someone? What practices does it involve and include?

 Grey Templar wrote:
I didn't say we should be uniform. I said we should focus on our shared culture instead of whats different about everyone.

Your idea of "our shared culture and values" is just code for what you believe in. Even though I'm a white American-born man from the Mid-Atlantic region, my values include diversity as part of our national heritage because we're a diverse nation.

You're just jumping on the "everyone who doesn't think like me is the real reason why America is 'divided'" train that seems to be running full steam as of late.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I didn't say we should be uniform. I said we should focus on our shared culture instead of whats different about everyone.

Your idea of "our shared culture and values" is just code for what you believe in. Even though I'm a white American-born man from the Mid-Atlantic region, my values include diversity as part of our national heritage because we're a diverse nation.

You're just jumping on the "everyone who doesn't think like me is the real reason why America is 'divided'" train that seems to be running full steam as of late.

We are diverse yes, but one would think cultures comming into a new culture would attempt to assimilate into their new home culture just a little bit, instead of expecting the new culture to bend over backwards for them.

I mean all the irish/italian/german/etc immigrants of the 1900's kept their traditions and cultures strong, but still assimilated by learning the language and laws of the land

Its not an unreasonable expectation.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I didn't say we should be uniform. I said we should focus on our shared culture instead of whats different about everyone.

Your idea of "our shared culture and values" is just code for what you believe in. Even though I'm a white American-born man from the Mid-Atlantic region, my values include diversity as part of our national heritage because we're a diverse nation.

You're just jumping on the "everyone who doesn't think like me is the real reason why America is 'divided'" train that seems to be running full steam as of late.

We are diverse yes, but one would think cultures comming into a new culture would attempt to assimilate into their new home culture just a little bit, instead of expecting the new culture to bend over backwards for them.

I mean all the irish/italian/german/etc immigrants of the 1900's kept their traditions and cultures strong, but still assimilated by learning the language and laws of the land

Its not an unreasonable expectation.

The language, cultures and laws of the land also took on aspects of the Irish/Italian/German immigrants though.

That is just part of the process. As immigrants assimilate into our culture, our culture will also assimilate the traditions and values that they bring to our country. Our culture is not the same it was 50 years ago, and it won't be the same in 50 years. Our culture is defined by the people that make up this country today, it is not defined by the people that made up our country 50 years ago. But the culture of our future will be made up by the people of the future. Culture shifts won't be as fast and radical as the shift that is expected of immigrants into our culture, but it is still shaped by them and it will change. That is just the nature of things.

I'm still waiting for someone to offer a definition... a general description, even... of "our culture" that immigrants should be adhering to.

I'd settle for everyone to at least speak the same language to be honest, whatever that may end up being. Dont need a 'tower of babel' situation so to speak. I dont think thats really unreasonable or offensive.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I'd settle for everyone to at least speak the same language to be honest, whatever that may end up being. Dont need a 'tower of babel' situation so to speak. I dont think thats really unreasonable or offensive.

We have never done that, however. America, since before it was even "America", was a mix of English, French, Spanish, German and Dutch colonists.

Hell, when the Articles of Confederation were being written, German was nearly selected to be the national language! Instead, we decided to not have one at all.

True its not officially written down anywhere

But realistically there is one thats all but 'official'. I dont think you can really argue against that.

I mean when I went through school, i didnt have 5 different language courses "just in case"

 Psienesis wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to offer a definition... a general description, even... of "our culture" that immigrants should be adhering to.

Speak English...

Follow that laws of our land...

Pay taxes...

And... that's it. Do whatever floats your boat.

 Psienesis wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to offer a definition... a general description, even... of "our culture" that immigrants should be adhering to.

Define English/French/Russian/whatever culture.

Its not like its a cut and dried thing, but generally speak our language, adhere to customs, and generally assimilate. That does mean losing a lot of your original culture too.

My question is, why should they? If anyone doesn't want to speak English, doesn't want to follow customs/values, doesn't want to assimilate, there is nothing wrong with that. I say, just let people dicside what they want to do instead of pressuring them.

 Psienesis wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to offer a definition... a general description, even... of "our culture" that immigrants should be adhering to.

McDonalds

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
My question is, why should they? If anyone doesn't want to speak English, doesn't want to follow customs/values, doesn't want to assimilate, there is nothing wrong with that. I say, just let people dicside what they want to do instead of pressuring them.

You really dont see anything wrong with that? For starters its incredibly rude and arrogant.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
My question is, why should they? If anyone doesn't want to speak English, doesn't want to follow customs/values, doesn't want to assimilate, there is nothing wrong with that. I say, just let people dicside what they want to do instead of pressuring them.

You really dont see anything wrong with that? For starters its incredibly rude and arrogant.

Really? It's rude for them to not want to change their culture to suit you? I'm not seeing it.


And arrogant? They want to hold on to what they know. What they grew up with. They are proud of their culture, so they don't want to change it.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
My question is, why should they? If anyone doesn't want to speak English, doesn't want to follow customs/values, doesn't want to assimilate, there is nothing wrong with that. I say, just let people dicside what they want to do instead of pressuring them.

...then they can stay in whatever country they came from.

Yup. I wouldn't dream of moving anywhere if I didn't speak the language and had to rely on there being enough people there that spoke my language so I could function.

Yet things have become so muddled that not knowing Spanish in certain areas of the country is a serious handicap.