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I still like my ideas of only being able to snap fire at them after deep striking and being immune to interceptor (teleportation blinds the enemy units), mixing the units back together, the cyclone is a separate upgrade open per 5 man that can split fire from the rest of the unit and then allowing storm bolters to be buffed one turn per game (double tap, rending, re-roll to hits, re-roll to wounds) just so they can put out some serious firepower before they inevitably go to mess stuff up with their fists, or other ccw's due to LC and TH/SS being mixed back into the unit.

It increases their survivability in a fluffy way after deep striking whilst not effecting following game turns.
Allows them to buff their shooting one turn per game, which usually is all they will get to fire anyway.
Makes them more flexible by allowing mixing of weapons.
Provides a more unique way to increase heavy weapons yet doesn't allow double HF/AC in a 5 man unit whilst allowing the cyclone to be more flexible and not limit the firing of the rest of the unit.

And I'd keep all of that the same prices they are currently, it is a good strike unit that will be able to survive a bit longer to put out some hurt but inevitably will be deleted by the enemy once the snap firing shield has expired, and if it ignored, then they will be flooding into combat. It forces your enemy to not ignore them in some respect.

What's wrong with double HF/AC? I think most of you are just holding back way too much here. This is a game with Webway portal D-scythes are you are scared to give terminators an extra crappy imperial heavy weapon? Yes, I think Imperial heavy weapons across the board pretty much suck.

In a game of WWP Scytheguard, the Termies can bring Skyhammer and IKs.

In a game that involves foot Guardians, CAD Tac squads, Carbine FWs, Wyches, and/or other units below the 95th percentile, anything that can compete with the SM/CWE/Necron gak just wipes the floor. In those games, 2xIoM heavies on a very durable platform actually means something (if appropriately costed).

For those of us not playing those games, it doesn't matter.

Shooty terminators should each be able to buy the upgrade heavy weapons like the Eldar bikes can.

If each model can buy one, the price point needs to be higher per model than if its limited to 1 or 2 per 5. That price is a bit high right now, but don't make it too cheap.

Bharring wrote:
If each model can buy one, the price point needs to be higher per model than if its limited to 1 or 2 per 5. That price is a bit high right now, but don't make it too cheap.

I don't really agree with that logic. But whatever. Eldar don't pay anything extra special on scatbikes.

(Same argument for Scatter Bikes - they are broken, but weren't at 1 heavy per 3.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, should we allow Striking Scorpions to deep strike turn 1, and assault on the charge, with the only cost being the need to take Dark Reapers who pin anything they shoot at?

Stupid shouldn't excuse stupid.

But as it turns out, you need stupid to fight stupid on an even footing.

Martel732 wrote:
But as it turns out, you need stupid to fight stupid on an even footing.

Or better yet, get rid of the stupid instead of adding to it!
But nerfing Scatterbikes is another topic's issue and bringing Terminators up to that level is a horrid idea, so time to end this part of the discussion.

2 per 5 is the maximum that would be reasonable. If that's still not enough, let the Sergeant have one too, any more would be ridiculous.

I honestly think that if we buffed storm bolters that none of this would matter

Well, some things would need tweaking anyway but that would certainly be the first option.
Salvo 2/4 with a special rule to not screw over non-Relentless/SnP Infantry. But DoomShakaLaka's current idea isn't that bad and is pretty manageable with no "knock-on" effects.

And its not just scatbikes. I dont consider warp spiders a fair unit either. Another eldar unit with mass s6, I might add. Shall they get nerfed too?

Yes if they're OP too, and in another thread. Away from this one. Where we'll buff Terminators to reasonable but not stupid standards.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I honestly think that if we buffed storm bolters that none of this would matter

Rending? That would be cool.

 kronk wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I honestly think that if we buffed storm bolters that none of this would matter

Rending? That would be cool.

Rending would be a little much don't you think?

For a 5 point upgrade that no one in PA ever uses? Nah.

For terminators? It would make me want to take them again.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Yes if they're OP too, and in another thread. Away from this one. Where we'll buff Terminators to reasonable but not stupid standards.

I'm questioning your version of reasonable vs stupid. Where is the line? Warp spiders? Sternguard? Grav Centurions? TWC? Scatbikes? WK? Riptides? Broadsides? Tactical terminators are inferior to all of those units, plus a bunch more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I honestly think that if we buffed storm bolters that none of this would matter

Rending? That would be cool.

Rending would be a little much don't you think?

Tac terminators don't have the shots to making rending scary.

For some reason there doesn't seem to be any Eldar opponents around my area so I never face off against a scatter laser. It's always the stupid HYMP from tau that shoot my termies a million times and invalidate their armor.

150pts (4x Terminators, 1x Terminator Sgt)

Terminator Infantry WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+
Terminator Sgt Infantry (character) WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+

Wargear: Wargear, Terminator Armor*, Power Weapon, Godwyn pattern Stormbolter

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads, Plasma Hardened Armor*

May take up to 5 more Terminators for 30ppm.
Each model may replace its stormbolter or power weapon with a
Lightning claw-2pts
Power fist-5pts
Storm Shield-3pts
Chainfist-7pts
Thunder Hammer-7pts
Up to 2 models per 5 may choose options from the heavy weapons list.
Terminator Armor- Confers a 2+ Armor Save , a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Relentless special rule. Models wearing Terminator Armor may choose to enter the game via Deep Strike following the rules for Deep Strike Reserves. Models Wearing Terminator Armor may never make sweeping advances.
Plasma Hardened Armor- Models with this rule may choose to take invulnerable saves after they failed their armor save.

Godwyn pattern Stormbolter- range 24" S4 ap5 salvo 2/3

I quite like this. Though I still feel like they should be more like the command squad by allowing each terminator to take a heavy weapon (paying for each one obviously). I feel like storm bolters should be salvo 2/4 but that is just me. I but I could agree with the 2 heavy per 5 limit. I still feel like something needs to be done to make twin lightning claws an option. Maybe something like 3pts for twin lightning claws?

Martel732 wrote:
I'm questioning your version of reasonable vs stupid. Where is the line?

Reasonable = Balanced.
Stupid = Unbalanced, over/under-powered.

Since Terminators are underpowered, they should be made reasonable with buffs. Since Scatterbikes, Wraithknights and so on are overpowered they should be made reasonable with nerfs.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm questioning your version of reasonable vs stupid. Where is the line?

Reasonable = Balanced.
Stupid = Unbalanced, over/under-powered.

Since Terminators are underpowered, they should be made reasonable with buffs. Since Scatterbikes, Wraithknights and so on are overpowered they should be made reasonable with buffs.

lol you mean nerfs

Exalted

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm questioning your version of reasonable vs stupid. Where is the line?

Reasonable = Balanced.
Stupid = Unbalanced, over/under-powered.

Since Terminators are underpowered, they should be made reasonable with buffs. Since Scatterbikes, Wraithknights and so on are overpowered they should be made reasonable with buffs.

lol you mean nerfs

Crap, you're right!
I feel like a right derp now...

 Filch wrote:
Exalted

Doom?

 NorseSig wrote:

150pts (4x Terminators, 1x Terminator Sgt)

Terminator Infantry WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+
Terminator Sgt Infantry (character) WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+

Wargear: Wargear, Terminator Armor*, Power Weapon, Godwyn pattern Stormbolter

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads, Plasma Hardened Armor*

May take up to 5 more Terminators for 30ppm.
Each model may replace its stormbolter or power weapon with a
Lightning claw-2pts
Power fist-5pts
Storm Shield-3pts
Chainfist-7pts
Thunder Hammer-7pts
Up to 2 models per 5 may choose options from the heavy weapons list.
Terminator Armor- Confers a 2+ Armor Save , a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Relentless special rule. Models wearing Terminator Armor may choose to enter the game via Deep Strike following the rules for Deep Strike Reserves. Models Wearing Terminator Armor may never make sweeping advances.
Plasma Hardened Armor- Models with this rule may choose to take invulnerable saves after they failed their armor save.

Godwyn pattern Stormbolter- range 24" S4 ap5 salvo 2/3

I quite like this. Though I still feel like they should be more like the command squad by allowing each terminator to take a heavy weapon (paying for each one obviously). I feel like storm bolters should be salvo 2/4 but that is just me. I but I could agree with the 2 heavy per 5 limit. I still feel like something needs to be done to make twin lightning claws an option. Maybe something like 3pts for twin lightning claws?

It is an option. You can replace the stormbolter and the power sword

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:

150pts (4x Terminators, 1x Terminator Sgt)

Terminator Infantry WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+
Terminator Sgt Infantry (character) WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+

Wargear: Wargear, Terminator Armor*, Power Weapon, Godwyn pattern Stormbolter

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads, Plasma Hardened Armor*

May take up to 5 more Terminators for 30ppm.
Each model may replace its stormbolter or power weapon with a
Lightning claw-2pts
Power fist-5pts
Storm Shield-3pts
Chainfist-7pts
Thunder Hammer-7pts
Up to 2 models per 5 may choose options from the heavy weapons list.
Terminator Armor- Confers a 2+ Armor Save , a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Relentless special rule. Models wearing Terminator Armor may choose to enter the game via Deep Strike following the rules for Deep Strike Reserves. Models Wearing Terminator Armor may never make sweeping advances.
Plasma Hardened Armor- Models with this rule may choose to take invulnerable saves after they failed their armor save.

Godwyn pattern Stormbolter- range 24" S4 ap5 salvo 2/3

I quite like this. Though I still feel like they should be more like the command squad by allowing each terminator to take a heavy weapon (paying for each one obviously). I feel like storm bolters should be salvo 2/4 but that is just me. I but I could agree with the 2 heavy per 5 limit. I still feel like something needs to be done to make twin lightning claws an option. Maybe something like 3pts for twin lightning claws?

It is an option. You can replace the stormbolter and the power sword

Outside of CSM, when does one see tactical termies taking power weapons if they arent the sergeant?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:

150pts (4x Terminators, 1x Terminator Sgt)

Terminator Infantry WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+
Terminator Sgt Infantry (character) WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+

Wargear: Wargear, Terminator Armor*, Power Weapon, Godwyn pattern Stormbolter

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads, Plasma Hardened Armor*

May take up to 5 more Terminators for 30ppm.
Each model may replace its stormbolter or power weapon with a
Lightning claw-2pts
Power fist-5pts
Storm Shield-3pts
Chainfist-7pts
Thunder Hammer-7pts
Up to 2 models per 5 may choose options from the heavy weapons list.
Terminator Armor- Confers a 2+ Armor Save , a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Relentless special rule. Models wearing Terminator Armor may choose to enter the game via Deep Strike following the rules for Deep Strike Reserves. Models Wearing Terminator Armor may never make sweeping advances.
Plasma Hardened Armor- Models with this rule may choose to take invulnerable saves after they failed their armor save.

Godwyn pattern Stormbolter- range 24" S4 ap5 salvo 2/3

I quite like this. Though I still feel like they should be more like the command squad by allowing each terminator to take a heavy weapon (paying for each one obviously). I feel like storm bolters should be salvo 2/4 but that is just me. I but I could agree with the 2 heavy per 5 limit. I still feel like something needs to be done to make twin lightning claws an option. Maybe something like 3pts for twin lightning claws?

It is an option. You can replace the stormbolter and the power sword

Outside of CSM, when does one see tactical termies taking power weapons if they arent the sergeant?

Before now? Never. Because it wasn't an option until I made it.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:

150pts (4x Terminators, 1x Terminator Sgt)

Terminator Infantry WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+
Terminator Sgt Infantry (character) WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld9 Sv2+4+

Wargear: Wargear, Terminator Armor*, Power Weapon, Godwyn pattern Stormbolter

Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads, Plasma Hardened Armor*

May take up to 5 more Terminators for 30ppm.
Each model may replace its stormbolter or power weapon with a
Lightning claw-2pts
Power fist-5pts
Storm Shield-3pts
Chainfist-7pts
Thunder Hammer-7pts
Up to 2 models per 5 may choose options from the heavy weapons list.
Terminator Armor- Confers a 2+ Armor Save , a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Relentless special rule. Models wearing Terminator Armor may choose to enter the game via Deep Strike following the rules for Deep Strike Reserves. Models Wearing Terminator Armor may never make sweeping advances.
Plasma Hardened Armor- Models with this rule may choose to take invulnerable saves after they failed their armor save.

Godwyn pattern Stormbolter- range 24" S4 ap5 salvo 2/3

I quite like this. Though I still feel like they should be more like the command squad by allowing each terminator to take a heavy weapon (paying for each one obviously). I feel like storm bolters should be salvo 2/4 but that is just me. I but I could agree with the 2 heavy per 5 limit. I still feel like something needs to be done to make twin lightning claws an option. Maybe something like 3pts for twin lightning claws?

It is an option. You can replace the stormbolter and the power sword

Outside of CSM, when does one see tactical termies taking power weapons if they arent the sergeant?

Before now? Never. Because it wasn't an option until I made it.

Not once have I read fluff that matches this

GW doesn't match their own fluffl, thereby invalidating the fluff.

Martel732 wrote:
GW doesn't match their own fluffl, thereby invalidating the fluff.

Truer words.