Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lately, I've been coming up against a number of armies in my local store with significant elements of bikes and cavalry - Warbikers and Thunderwolves especially, but also a few Grav-bikers and Eldar Jetbikes.

My army right now is an admittedly rather weak Salamanders Battle Demi-Company. It needs upgrades, that's for sure [my strongest unit is a bike squad with two grav-guns].

But what unit should I get to help deal with large groups of tough and mobile bikers?

I was thinking either a squad of TH/SS Terminators [so I could make a 1st Company formation] or a Land Raider Redeemer, with it's AP3 flamer.

Or would something like an Imperial Knight be more effective? Their guns wouldn't ignore jink, but would certainly force a lot of saves, and then the D close combat weapon would do a lot of damage.

I was even looking at the Cerastus Knight Acheron, but that's an awful lot to spend, money-wise.

What do you suggest?

First thing that came to mind was Square wheels!

Joking aside...

Cheapest easiest upgrade, Auspex. Don't REALLY need to model for it and will really help.

Thunderfire: For the price it's hard to beat, especially ignoring that cover. Throw in Telion, make him your warlord and you've got one mean anti bike unit.

Hunter/stalker formation added onto the battle company.

One thing I've been tinkering with is the tyranic war vet formation. Infiltrate a few storm talons and put the war vets in a FA pod. As long as your storm talons shoot the same target. Your war vets will have 2+ poisoned ignore cover shots on those bikes.

CHEAP skyhammer formation, charge them before they can charge you. Gives your own bikes a chance to get into position.

Librarian formation, all 3 on bikes. Add to your bike squad and hope for ignores cover and such.

Massed TML, most likely from Speeders but also Talons.

Won't ignore jink but will wound on 2's and ignore armor so they're forcing jinks so less damage.

Crusade wrote:

Hunter/stalker formation added onto the battle company.

I don't understand why you'd put this formation against bikes. Isn't it the AA formation?

IMO you have to spam S6+, better if with Rending like Stormtalons with Asscannons and Skyhammer ML, Plasmaguns, Razorbacks with Asscans, Rifle dreads, Land Speeders with HB and TML (I LOVE this little buggers) or you need to pin them down in CC (though with TWC and Warbikers it can be dangerous).
Or you can fight fire with fire and bring a Biker Command Squad with 4 Grav Guns, 4 Storm Shields and a Captain with AA, SS and TH.
Unfortunately aside of librarians we don't have much means to reliably ignore cover.

Oh, and LOTD with Multimelta, Meltagun(or Plasma Gun) and matching combi deepstriking in.
They ignore cover and have a 3++ default.
the problem is that after dropping they are slow as f**k because of SaP.

Sicaran Battle Tank for sure. It murders anything reliant on Jink, and even against non-optimal targets its a 6 shot rending autocannon on a 13/12/12 chassis with the option for ceramite plating. Fabulous tank in an army (SM) with generally terrible tanks.

NickAtkins wrote:
Sicaran Battle Tank for sure. It murders anything reliant on Jink, and even against non-optimal targets its a 6 shot rending autocannon on a 13/12/12 chassis with the option for ceramite plating. Fabulous tank in an army (SM) with generally terrible tanks.

I agreee. Go with a Sicaran. And it actually has 13/13/13, 13/12/12 is the 30k version afaik.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

NickAtkins wrote:
Sicaran Battle Tank for sure. It murders anything reliant on Jink, and even against non-optimal targets its a 6 shot rending autocannon on a 13/12/12 chassis with the option for ceramite plating. Fabulous tank in an army (SM) with generally terrible tanks.

I agreee. Go with a Sicaran. And it actually has 13/13/13, 13/12/12 is the 30k version afaik.

Unfortunately the errata from FW says otherwise

While not stellar as it is still a Land Raider, the Land Raider Redeemer can use Power of the Machine Spirit to move 12" and then launch one of Flamestorm Cannons. It will be hard to keep up, though. Plasma or Grav Command Squads on Bikes work will force most stuff to Jink, and possibly kill stuff anyway. Basically, you want to put them in a situation where the enemy is forced to Jink, since they will be firing snap shots for most of their attacks. Eventually, you will whittle them down.

I wish there was a way to get Flamestorms on a faster platform or to get them Torrent.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
While not stellar as it is still a Land Raider, the Land Raider Redeemer can use Power of the Machine Spirit to move 12" and then launch one of Flamestorm Cannons. It will be hard to keep up, though. Plasma or Grav Command Squads on Bikes work will force most stuff to Jink, and possibly kill stuff anyway. Basically, you want to put them in a situation where the enemy is forced to Jink, since they will be firing snap shots for most of their attacks. Eventually, you will whittle them down.

I wish there was a way to get Flamestorms on a faster platform or to get them Torrent.

The problem is that Warbikers and TWC don't rely too much on shooting, but on CC so they're not afraid to jink.
Good thinking on the Redeemer though.

 mathaius90 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
While not stellar as it is still a Land Raider, the Land Raider Redeemer can use Power of the Machine Spirit to move 12" and then launch one of Flamestorm Cannons. It will be hard to keep up, though. Plasma or Grav Command Squads on Bikes work will force most stuff to Jink, and possibly kill stuff anyway. Basically, you want to put them in a situation where the enemy is forced to Jink, since they will be firing snap shots for most of their attacks. Eventually, you will whittle them down.

I wish there was a way to get Flamestorms on a faster platform or to get them Torrent.

The problem is that Warbikers and TWC don't rely too much on shooting, but on CC so they're not afraid to jink.
Good thinking on the Redeemer though.

Good point. Then just pepper them from a distance with AP3. In which case, a squad of 3 Land Speeder Typhoons will set you back 210 pts, but you will get six missiles to ruin their day.

Land Speeders are a good addition in Bike and non-bike armies alike.
They are very mobile and have a good output for their cost.
Personally I don't like running them as suicide speeders, i think it's a waste of points and in 7th you aren't even sure to blow up a rhino with dual MM.
TML get a lot more mileage out of the chassis.
I guess a pod of sternguard can distract them for a turn or two, but you have to get close to TWC or Warbikers.
Maybe a 3 Whirlwinds squadron? IIRC they get Ignore cover and Shred...

Oddly just heavy bolters will increase your damage. Bikers pay a premium for that t5 so any weapon that can cause a lot of wounds will chip away quickly.

How about unit or three of deep striking legion of the damned with an ignores cover plasmacannon and plasmagun?

Plasma cannon is quite a mediocre weapon, especially against large base model since it is more difficult to fit more under the small blast


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plasma cannon is quite a mediocre weapon, especially against large base model since it is more difficult to fit more under the small blast.
At least MM doubles as AT and instagibs T4.

 mathaius90 wrote:

Crusade wrote:

Hunter/stalker formation added onto the battle company.

I don't understand why you'd put this formation against bikes. Isn't it the AA formation?

I worded myself poorly and meant the squadron of stalkers. I was just thinking that 9x str 7 shots ignoring cover isn't terrible, even if snap shooting against the bikes. Interceptor would work on white scars bikes outflanking. It also addresses a lack of anti air.

Points for points the stalkers are worse than a naked autocannon predator against bikes. Yes you ignore jink, but don't ignore the armor and it doesn't Rend. Plus the snapfire thing.
The Tier 1 answer is FW Sicaran, but it can't be everyone's cui of tea.
Then we have mass S5+ and rending shots, working through sheer volume of fire.
You can try the Vindicator formation for an apocalyptic blast, cover ignoring D hit but it isn't a good formation IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and sternguard's Hellfire rounds. Wounding them on 2s (maybe rerolling 1s if imperial fists or through doctrines) make for a good wound pool.

I've actually started using Flamestorm Baals. No torrent, but fast. Which means they can move 12" while firing two heavy bolters until they get into flamer range. I just have to keep them from being outflanked.

Martel732 wrote:
I've actually started using Flamestorm Baals. No torrent, but fast. Which means they can move 12" while firing two heavy bolters until they get into flamer range. I just have to keep them from being outflanked.

What about flame sponsons and TL Asscan? or you try to keep him as cheap as possible?

 mathaius90 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I've actually started using Flamestorm Baals. No torrent, but fast. Which means they can move 12" while firing two heavy bolters until they get into flamer range. I just have to keep them from being outflanked.

What about flame sponsons and TL Asscan? or you try to keep him as cheap as possible?

Flamestorm cannon is the magical AP 3, side sponsons are only heavy flamers. I want to the efficacy at range (such that it is) and then burn Black Knights when they get within double tap range. It's also good for burning all kinds of units out of ruins.

 mathaius90 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I've actually started using Flamestorm Baals. No torrent, but fast. Which means they can move 12" while firing two heavy bolters until they get into flamer range. I just have to keep them from being outflanked.

What about flame sponsons and TL Asscan? or you try to keep him as cheap as possible?

EDIT: oh, I watched the codex and I saw normal HFs for sponsons. Now I understand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Black Knights are becoming an increasing problem, they have a very good output while being resistent to almost anything that's thrown at them.

Black knights don't like Flamestorm cannons and don't like TH/SS terminators riding Stormravens, either. Scatterbikes and black knights are really changing a lot of my lists. The hit and run was very unnecessary on the Black Knights. I have to take a freaking LoW to get that ability.

Plus they can auto pass with the banner. Basically you have to destroy them in 1 turn of CC.

Hence the TH/SS terminators. At BA prices, of course, though. I'm drifting back into playing Starcraft more and more.

Maybe you can obtain about the same results with JP DC? At least when they jump out they can move 12".

Hold on Martel, better times will come.

Stairs....oh wait

Honestly the best things would be to shoot the feth out of it and hope for failed saves.

or finding ways to pick individual models (probably in combat) out to weaken them significantly as most bike type lists will use wound allocation shenanigans with characters and storm shields.

i think the funniest one would be the big triple vindicator large blast. though storm shields will gak on it probably.

Plus it costs a buttload of points. And if one Vindi gets boned you lose everything.

>sadface.jpg

Martel732 wrote:
I've actually started using Flamestorm Baals. No torrent, but fast. Which means they can move 12" while firing two heavy bolters until they get into flamer range. I just have to keep them from being outflanked.

I am actually looking to get another turret for my Baal so it can have the option for the Flamestorm or the AssCan. I kinda just wish I built it with the Flamestorm anyway. The Heavy Bolters are definitely the way to go for the sponsons for the reason you cited.

 mathaius90 wrote:
Maybe you can obtain about the same results with JP DC? At least when they jump out they can move 12".

Hold on Martel, better times will come.

DC get shredded by the overwatch.

Martel732 wrote:

 mathaius90 wrote:
Maybe you can obtain about the same results with JP DC? At least when they jump out they can move 12".

Hold on Martel, better times will come.

DC get shredded by the overwatch.

well, FNP does help mitigate that some, but overall, yeah, charging in with DC is not a very effective strategy against bikes with good firepower, especially RW bikes.

Anything AP3 in CC makes black knights cry. They are pretty fragile in CC for the cost. Command squad not included but even they bite it at a strong breeze