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Honestly it did to me too, however I could see how it could potentially be construed differently so I figured I'd put the question out for debate.

Of course Tau players will read it the way that is more beneficial for them.

It states the model activates it, then later that the unit must declare it's using it.

It's not exactly surprising there's a debate: Those are directly contradictory.

The rule is missing 2 L's in the first sentence for what it seems like it might be trying to say.

If it had said "all models"; then the unit declaration would activate all their countermeasures and the rule would only be applied once per game.

Alternatively if the unit declaration bit also stated that all models then activate the countermeasures; then it would be once per game.

But as written right now it is more like combat doctrines on sms; a battle company in a gladius of ultras can activate them 3 times.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Of course Tau players will read it the way that is more beneficial for them.

Just like any other player of any other race would do with their armies, nice attempt to troll though.

And how it is written a model with Hophoton Countermeasures may activate it which is not incorrect thinking in the slightest.

Liking this one far more than the silly Stormsurge. Will fit my playstyle better as well. Crap, this means I actually have to buy something aside from the codex this release.

1 hemlock and those things are toast

So, it doubles the bonuses from Stealth and Shrouded... but it doesn't look like it actually has either of those rules.

Possible sign of buffing shenanigans in the new codex?

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Of course Tau players will read it the way that is more beneficial for them.

The way that's beneficial for Tau players happens to also be the way that anyone who understands English grammar would read it. It does say a model, one, singular, can use the ability. It's only confusing because they mention the unit later, and we all feel like it should be once per unit. We can assume rules as intended all we want, but rules as (poorly) written, one model can be used to activate the ability, so each model in the unit can do it at different times.

Games Workshop needs to fire their entire rules team or hire some competent technical writers to proofread everything, because they can't properly write a single paragraph that isn't unclear. Half the people in this thread noticed it immediately and any one of us could probably rewrite it to make it unambiguous. GW is just plain incompetent at writing rules.

Here, I'll do it for them. The once per game version:

"Once per battle, in the enemy shooting phase, a unit containing a model equipped with..."

Or the once per model per game version:

"Declare that the model will use its holophoton countermeasures after the enemy unit has chosen the model's unit as a target..."

Easy.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
So, it doubles the bonuses from Stealth and Shrouded... but it doesn't look like it actually has either of those rules.

Possible sign of buffing shenanigans in the new codex?

The drone gives it both of those rules. On base on the drone, and the other with the dones special rule.

S8 AP1 Blast Melta. Uh huh. While the model looks cool, I just see this being another edition of Tau shooting the crap out of any other army. To be fair, Tau need it to keep up with Decurion, Free Rides SM, and Decurion Crons.

Any word on T, LD? I see it has a 3+ armor with Cover Save shenanigans.

I'm happy with the model and the rules. It also seem to point that Stealthsuit mightchange slot, possibly going to Fast. Or else, why would they keep both very similar unit in the same slot. I'm not saying GW is logical, but I'm saying a change of slot for Stealthsuit is possible and that makes me happy

It's not base on the drones, right? The "Ghostkeel Sha'vre" has Stealth. Stealth confers on the drones. The Drones have "Stealth Field", which presumably confers on both. And the the Ghostkeel suit doubles its own cover save outside 12".

It's a little convoluted.

Pods will smoke it.

It will still have stealth+shrouded, so it won't be hard for it to get 2+ cover anyway. It won't be easily destroyed.

Auspex are cheap.

And don't they only give -1 cover? So it will have 3+ cover instead, or if it's in good enough cover, it might even stay a 2+. And this thing is decently tough, at T5. And if this thing survives one turn, it can move 6'"+2d6" jump, so pods are not the end all here.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And don't they only give -1 cover? So it will have 3+ cover instead, or if it's in good enough cover, it might even stay a 2+. And this thing is decently tough, at T5. And if this thing survives one turn, it can move 6'"+2d6" jump, so pods are not the end all here.

It will also likly be able to take interceptor. I look forward to Melta blasting whatever comes out of that Pod

Yoyoyo wrote:
You guys have failed to mention an important detail:

2x Drones are mandatory, the suit is LD9, and it lacks Fearless.

I foresee shenanigans

Under the current rules?

Certainly. But we don't know what the Codex changes will bring. For all we know, "Fire Team" makes it so that the only thing that matters for LD checks are the loss of other Suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It will still have stealth+shrouded, so it won't be hard for it to get 2+ cover anyway. It won't be easily destroyed.

It will have Stealth+Shrouded until the Drones are killed, which is admittedly easier said than done.

Meh, I'm pretty good at surviving my drones. It's not a big concern for me personally. And as long as you keep them 12" away, the re-rolls will really help.

A few people are missing the main point of it entirely.
Yes, its weapons aren't all that great.

It is not a weapons platform though like a broadside or riptide.
It's a highly effective 130 point distraction carnifex.

Everyone is throwing in ways to kill it easily, yet no one has taken into account these options are pretty much all 200+ points.

Anything will die when you pour points into it.


Depending on structure of suits, I see these being amazing if crisis can be taken as troops.

Otherwise elite is too packed with these, crisis and tides.

Nice model though and draws alot of fire.




As a side note, since it doubles the effective cover, a -1 on a 2+ cover puts it to a 4+ as the base cover save is reduced, then doubled.
Much like how FC and a powerfist on S4 give a final S9.

I hope markerlight "ignore cover" mechanic gets nerfed and interceptor goes up in price... and I say this as someone filling out a 3k+ Tau force in anticipation for the release.

I'd like markes to go back to the old ones (-1 cover per marker, but also can do -1 ld).

 Jackal wrote:
A few people are missing the main point of it entirely.
Yes, its weapons aren't all that great.

It is not a weapons platform though like a broadside or riptide.
It's a highly effective 130 point distraction carnifex.

Everyone is throwing in ways to kill it easily, yet no one has taken into account these options are pretty much all 200+ points.

Anything will die when you pour points into it.

And nobody seems to have picked up on another thing you could do with this and its access to Support Systems:
Positional Relay.

Ghostkeels parked near a board edge in cover with a couple of Pathfinder units, Darkstrider, and maybe a Stealth Team held in Reserve.
Outflank all of the above and bring them on the table edge within 6" of the Ghostkeels.

And for an added bonus? Bring Pathfinder units with Recon Drones and the other party drones to add the ability to Deep Strike with no scatter on the enemy's board edge.

Bearing in mind of course that this is all conjecturely based upon what we're seeing now and subject to change when the new book hits. But this "Distraction Carnifex"? It's more of a "Distraction Deathleaper"; hard as mess to get a solid shot at unless it gets really unlucky.

Depending on structure of suits, I see these being amazing if crisis can be taken as troops.

Otherwise elite is too packed with these, crisis and tides.

Do you only play CAD? Or have you not paid any attention to the way the most recent books have been set up? It won't matter if Crisis Suits can be taken as Troops or not, because there are almost guaranteed to be formations that are not going to use the 2 Troops, 1 HQ method.

As a side note, since it doubles the effective cover, a -1 on a 2+ cover puts it to a 4+ as the base cover save is reduced, then doubled.
Much like how FC and a powerfist on S4 give a final S9.

I actually looked at the rulebook yesterday because I was wondering about this. Page 8 describes the sequence of events.

You first apply any multipliers and then you do any additions or subtractions.
So you double its Cover Save first, then do the subtraction.

Triple vindicators could clear a squad of these... although with their stupid hologram shenans, the. vindicators wont get to shoot and get melta'd the next turn

 Jackal wrote:
Everyone is throwing in ways to kill it easily, yet no one has taken into account these options are pretty much all 200+ points.

Ha! A 1WC power like Terrify has a 28% of making it flee off the board. If I can force one more morale check (like sniping a few Drones with Shriek), that's a cumulative 48% chance.

It's another unit like certain Necrons, it has good durability to shooting but will have serious issues against Psychic Powers or Assault. Don't forget that it's not invulnerable to being swept. Instant Death abilities will mash it up too. Any Force weapon or even Melta or Krak Missile with Enfeeble can simply 1-shot it.

Interestingly, its ability to force Snapshots will save it from the really big guns (like Deathstrikes or Typhons). Which is pretty cool.

Its got its strong points but let's not pretend it's game breaking.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Triple vindicators could clear a squad of these... although with their stupid hologram shenans, the. vindicators wont get to shoot and get melta'd the next turn

Truthfully, that's why it is best to consider these things like the Warp Spiders and their Flickerjump.

Do not directly target them. Use big templates at anything but them that are near them, and hope for scatter.

With all that short ranged weaponry, it doesnt seem OP just yet to me. We don't know what else it can be upgraded with at this point but with a max range of 24", and over range 12" 2+ cover save. It seems beatable.

I'm curious if it can LOS a focused witchfire like Mind Worm. It's not a character but rather a MC so perhaps not?

Kan - formations are good and I do use them, but they are not always what we want and we have to pay a tax on the additional rubbish that gets thrown in.

Now I'm not saying it will be, but past formations have shown that GW really know nothing.

I'd be over the moon if one came with with 2-3 crisis units and a commander, or something similar.
But chances are they will throw in some other rubbish.





On the subject of tricks with him, we don't know yet as GW have a nasty habit of changing equipment and its use.
I was just pointing out a solid use for him as everyone seems intent on throwing points at it.

Once we get some big rules leaks it will be easier to see what can be done with unit synergy.


However, my extent of being a tau player was a long time ago and the army is shelved while I keep building my nids.