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'Awesome rules with ugly miniatures.'

That sounds like a pretty accurate description of KoW to be honest.

But Mantic have also flat out said they don't really care what company's models you use to play their game so long as they are appropriate in scale and representation - and this even holds true at their events. So to be fair, Mantic have pretty much solved that issue as well.

I think you can only really answer "play a game with awesome minis and bad rules" if you haven't ever played a good game, and are therefore unable to differentiate what constitutes it being good or bad(!)

Otherwise there is no way in hell that you'd spend hours of your time doing something that wasn't fun, when you could be playing something so much better

 NoPoet wrote:
I wouldn't play either. I'd use the good minis to play the good rules.

For example, there is no way whatsoever that I would spend my money on those crappy Epic rip-off miniatures, is it Dropzone? The models are utterly without imagination, artistry or apparent skill, they're the definition of blandness and cheapness, but they cost as much as GW miniatures despite being no match for them in any way whatsoever.

When no other reply will suffice:


I know this kind of thing is always going to be subjective, but... come on !!!

I can only assume you haven't actually looked at any of them

 Pacific wrote:

I know this kind of thing is always going to be subjective, but... come on !!!

I can only assume you haven't actually looked at any of them

All those examples are bland, talentless and obvious rip-offs from Epic!

Of course, I'm blind and dress in nothing but neon pink and fluorescent green polka dots and zig-zag stripes, with a teal and vomit brown fedora to match, but that doesn't mean anything!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Aside from historics where models are by nature highly interchangeable and a game like KoW which is basically designed to be generic, I don't usually like using models from one system in a different system because they often aren't all that interchangeable.

There are few things that you can't find an alternative model for and even less things that can't be appropriately proxied.

As an example, my Warmachine faction contains very little PP models because I absolutely hate PP's aesthetic. All of the infantry come from a different manufacturer (Renegade IIRC) and that is a system that has a reputation for being very closed.

This poll is really rather pointless in a world with such a huge variety of wargaming miniatures for all scales.

Easier to fix ugly models with conversions and proxies than make an universally accepted fix of terrible rules.

I'more of a modeler than a player so I'm gonna have to go with pretty minis. Now I do play frequently, but I most of my enjoyment comes from the modeling and painting aspects of the hobby.

This reminds me of the personality over looks question, and I think my feelings are largely the same. It is looks that first attract me to something, but it's what's underneath that keeps me interested. I will confess that if a game had ugly creepy miniatures then there is a good chance I might not try it. But all things considered miniatures don't make a game, and I think I'd rather find a great game than a lousy one. I'd certainly rather spend my time converting and fixing up miniatures, than I would trying to adapt and fix lousy rules.

I play lots of games, but only ones with good rules/design. Playing a bad game with good tokens just seems like a stupid waste of time. Models or graphics are just the icing on the cake. (I do collect a few models just because I like them though, but emphasis on few).

Do I care that my little settlers of catan doohickeys aren't perfect rectangles and squares? Not really. Its well designed and fun.

Do I care that crusader kings 2 isn't the most graphically bueatiful game? Not really. its well designed and fun.

On the other hand, who still plays dreadfleet?

Since the wording of the topic insists on playing the game, I stand by the second option. The rules are integral to the process of playing the game, while game pieces can be improved or exchanged.

2nd option every time. Lots of great games (Risk, Pandemic etc) have uninspiring board pieces, but are awesome to play.

I wouldn't play either game. You need decent rules and you want good minatures.
As much as people whine about 40k they are not bad rules. They have issues but people have fun playing 40k which offers elements of large battlefield tactics and individuality and customization.

As much as people complain about gw prices they are also one of the best miniature game models. Whether you like thier aesthetic or not they are regularly praised as high quality.

I wouldn't buy awesome miniatures for a crap game I have no fun playing because then I'm just collecting models and not a miniture game and thier are better quality models I can paint even if they cost a ton.

I also wouldn't buy crap minatures for a well made game because 99% of the time my minatures are not being played but displayed in a case and the majority of the time I actually spend with miniatures is modeling and painting. If I wanted to paint Undetailed blobs of plastic I would play infinity or whichever other poor 3D printed game currently being developed. This is actually the worst scenario because at this point why even play a miniture game if all I care about is a balanced ruleset I would be playing Starcraft or some other rts game where each team is balanced perfectly against each other.

This question is dumb because your scenario is a black and white picture which doesn't exist.

I'd choose Xbox

 Flashman wrote:
2nd option every time. Lots of great games (Risk, Pandemic etc) have uninspiring board pieces, but are awesome to play.

Then at this point why even spend a crap ton of money on a miniture game as you said there are many many games which have great rules sets where the minatures don't matter. Ffs play Starcraft where each team is balanced against each other.

If I'm spending money on a miniture game and painting and modeling then I want to spend my time with good models. If not I will never paint them or display them. I would throw them in a box in my closet with the rest of the board games. And this is exactly what happens to the many crap model games I have. Whereas my 40k miniture are displayed in a glass case.

Zombicide in a box in the closet unpainted
Risk, Star Wars assault, etc in a box in a closet unpainted.
Xwing minatures in a converted toolbox in a closet

Warhammer 40k in a lighted glass case in the family room.

I play all the above games as well as many other board games.
40k gets painted and displayed the others thrown in a closet.
Crappy rules minatures games are a dime a dozen and most fail.
There are also quite a few miniture games with good rules and sucky models that fail because as much as those miniture games try to be different it's very much the same game design. I think the Conan Kickstarter game is going to be good simply because they got great minatures and a good ruleset. It's not a phenominal ruleset. It isnt expandable much but it's a good enough unique ruleset with great models that it sold extremely well.

Risk sucks.

Nomeny wrote:
Risk sucks.

All a case of management

If I want to pain gorgeous models I paint gorgeous models.

If I want to play a game I want it to be a good game.

I can quite happily paint gorgeous models without needing a wargame to go with them and if the wargame has ugly models I can just batch paint them and throw them on the table.
Win win.

However if a game has bad rules I am simply not going to play it at this point.

False dichotomy. I wouldn't play either. I'd move on to one of the other two dozen games on the market with good rules and good models. Seriously, not that hard any more. We're spoiled for choice in this hobby, now more than ever.

 Guildsman wrote:
False dichotomy. I wouldn't play either. I'd move on to one of the other two dozen games on the market with good rules and good models. Seriously, not that hard any more. We're spoiled for choice in this hobby, now more than ever.

Easier said than done. Mini war gaming isn't that big of a market, at least not compared to some other table top games, so while I'd rather play a game with better balance, 40k is far more popular than my other options, and has much more nostalgia for me.

I remember switching to Warmachine when it came out, and really enjoyed it. Then I got out of the whole genre because I was moving around a lot, only to come back very recently because other people I knew now had nostalgia for 40k and were looking for people to get back into it (along with having access to cheap NiB items for 40k but not Warmachine).

So yea, I'd jump ship on GW if I could find another sci-fi game, with a big enough following. From what I remember warmachine had rather solid rules, but it's not sci-fi and I have less nostalgia for it than 40k (though I remember not liking the first expansion it released), and I hear Mantic is doing very well rules wise, but their sci-fi game is so fresh that I don't really want to invest in it just yet, especially when I can use my Tau models for it in the future.

 Pacific wrote:
I think you can only really answer "play a game with awesome minis and bad rules" if you haven't ever played a good game, and are therefore unable to differentiate what constitutes it being good or bad(!)

I'd agree there to an extent, but you can still have fun playing an objectively bad game, just as you can have fun watching Sharknado.

The sales of Dreadfleet and AoS certainly don't seem to indicate that people prefer form over function, the mini's for those games are both pretty great, but the rules are pretty lousy, so sales are trending towards lousy.

I think the difference there is that while you only need to spend 90 minutes of your life (and whatever the cost is of a beer) to watch Sharknado, a wargame takes a considerable investment of time and effort if you are going to get involved with it. I suppose with the caveat that you may have a quick 'pick up' game with friends at a club, or at a show, and enjoy the game without any plan to spend any more time or money on it.

 Pacific wrote:
I think the difference there is that while you only need to spend 90 minutes of your life (and whatever the cost is of a beer) to watch Sharknado, a wargame takes a considerable investment of time and effort if you are going to get involved with it. I suppose with the caveat that you may have a quick 'pick up' game with friends at a club, or at a show, and enjoy the game without any plan to spend any more time or money on it.

False! I have watched the first two Sharknados completely sober!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
False! I have watched the first two Sharknados completely sober!

You are a braver man than I.

I use my 40k Death Korps as German Infantry in Bolt Action games (But I use Bolt Action Tanks because 40k tanks are huge!). Also have used my Eldar miniatures for the occasional game of Infinity.

So, I'd go with Good Rules as I can always use other minis.

It just occurred to me that as a user of the mutilator rules and models, there is no suitable option for me to select .

I'm sure it's been said:

Aweome rules do not have to have ugly minis-you simply use minis you think are awesome.

Look at 15mm gaming. There are very few rulesets ties to a specific minis line.

I have spent a ton on 40k and such. I buy minis because they look good; if they look bad, I don't buy. If I didn't care about how they looked, I'd play with chits and counters.