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I understand that the Tau have gakky FTL because they merely skim the warp instead of entering it but here's my question -
Why haven't they been able to reverse-engineer Imperial FTL technology?

They have captured Imperial Worlds and so have access to humans who have the knowledge of Warp Technology/Gellar Fields and I'd bet anything that they've captured Imperial ships too.

With both experienced people and the physical technology I don't understand why the Tau haven't at least made a ship or two incorporating this new tech. Even if they didn't trust it or want to use it for their main vessels, it would be exceedingly useful for scouting or message drones etc.

Its hard to develop warp based technology when you still don't think it truly exists, nor is it easy to navigate it without psykers.

The Tau suffer from both of these issues; they consider the warp to be superstition, and they don't have psykers to guide them.
Its more than a question of tech.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its hard to develop warp based technology when you still don't think it truly exists, nor is it easy to navigate it without psykers.

The Tau suffer from both of these issues; they consider the warp to be superstition, and they don't have psykers to guide them.
Its more than a question of tech.

Thing is, they know the Imperium has better warp technology so why aren't they at least trying to experiment?

If I was a Tau Scientist I'd work like this:
*Captured Imperial Ship*, let's put in an experienced ex-Imperial crew who have accepted the Greater Good.
*Order crew to initiate warp jump*
OH MY GOD IM IN AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION
Submit papers to Tau Science Academy ------ and go from there.

I understand they wouldn't be as good as the Imperials for Navigation but better tech would be a start.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its hard to develop warp based technology when you still don't think it truly exists, nor is it easy to navigate it without psykers.

The Tau suffer from both of these issues; they consider the warp to be superstition, and they don't have psykers to guide them.
Its more than a question of tech.

Thing is, they know the Imperium has better warp technology so why aren't they at least trying to experiment?

If I was a Tau Scientist I'd work like this:
*Captured Imperial Ship*, let's put in an experienced ex-Imperial crew who have accepted the Greater Good.
*Order crew to initiate warp jump*
OH MY GOD IM IN AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION
Submit papers to Tau Science Academy ------ and go from there.

I understand they wouldn't be as good as the Imperials for Navigation but better tech would be a start.

You can't do research into something that you cannot access. Not having psykers is a big deal.
One needs psykers to access the warp. This is non negotiable, there is no work around.
One could try to jury rig the warp drive to start, but chances are they won't be coming home to give their findings.

Was there not a story from one of the codexs where the Earth and Sky castes did experiment with an imperial vessel? They did a deeper dive than what was standard for their ships, saw the warp a little better and how messed up it was a basically said "nope not doing this". They pretty much decided that the warp travel is for fools.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its hard to develop warp based technology when you still don't think it truly exists, nor is it easy to navigate it without psykers.

The Tau suffer from both of these issues; they consider the warp to be superstition, and they don't have psykers to guide them.
Its more than a question of tech.

Thing is, they know the Imperium has better warp technology so why aren't they at least trying to experiment?

If I was a Tau Scientist I'd work like this:
*Captured Imperial Ship*, let's put in an experienced ex-Imperial crew who have accepted the Greater Good.
*Order crew to initiate warp jump*
OH MY GOD IM IN AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION
Submit papers to Tau Science Academy ------ and go from there.

I understand they wouldn't be as good as the Imperials for Navigation but better tech would be a start.

You can't do research into something that you cannot access. Not having psykers is a big deal.
One needs psykers to access the warp. This is non negotiable, there is no work around.
One could try to jury rig the warp drive to start, but chances are they won't be coming home to give their findings.

Well, I'm sure the Tau have human Psykers among their populations and captured Navigators too.
Part of using a full ex-Imperial Crew for said test would be Navigators too.

Even if for some reason they couldn't get their hands on a Navigator or Psyker, they have Psychic races among their constituent vassal races. They could use one of them in experiments too.

The Tau don't use the warp because they don't have psykers amongst their own race, that's a bit of an issue for warp travel on their ships. They could use Imperial ships, with ex-Imperial crews, but those are Imperial ships. Plus the Tau pretty much don't really think that the warp is real, they view it as superstition

Well, officially it is viewed as superstition, but the ethereal (and most probably many of the very high level caste members) do know about, but hide the information because of the problems it could pose if the general populous knew about it.

Edit: To put it better, they definitely know the warp exists, just information more than "it's a separate dimension" is hidden from view.

Navigators are a very special breed of psycher. Their bloodlines have been groomed & managed for thousands of years. To even percieve the Astronomican you need special training. You dont just ask a kroot witch doctor, "Hey, look for the guiding light of that alien god & use it to somehow teleport us through "hell". Right now. ".

Because they don't have the spice melange. Nor the Ixian navigation device.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its hard to develop warp based technology when you still don't think it truly exists, nor is it easy to navigate it without psykers.

The Tau suffer from both of these issues; they consider the warp to be superstition, and they don't have psykers to guide them.
Its more than a question of tech.

Thing is, they know the Imperium has better warp technology so why aren't they at least trying to experiment?

If I was a Tau Scientist I'd work like this:
*Captured Imperial Ship*, let's put in an experienced ex-Imperial crew who have accepted the Greater Good.
*Order crew to initiate warp jump*
OH MY GOD IM IN AN ALTERNATE DIMENSION
Submit papers to Tau Science Academy ------ and go from there.

I understand they wouldn't be as good as the Imperials for Navigation but better tech would be a start.

If anything it would go more along the lines of:

"Oh my god I'm in an alter-"
*gets brutally murdered by daemons and never returns to submit his findings.

End of story

To utilize Imperial warp tech they would need navigators. They can't make much use of Imperial navigators unless the Tau plan to constantly capture Imperial vessels to not only find enough willing navigators but enough to sustain the fleet.

I think I'd be ok with slower spaceships that make me less likely to get eaten by demons.

I always assumed that the jump drives they have are made form reverse engineering imperial warp drives.

I don't think the limitation is the lack of psykers, but a lack of tech or will. It's likely very hard tech to make warp drive giller(sp) field and whatever else you need to pop in and out of hell. It also could be that they just don't want it. Their ships aren't 'that' slow and warp travel can be unreliable particularly in the region they live. They call it the damocles gulf for a reason.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To utilize Imperial warp tech they would need navigators. They can't make much use of Imperial navigators unless the Tau plan to constantly capture Imperial vessels to not only find enough willing navigators but enough to sustain the fleet.

More importantly, they would need a Gellar Field.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

You can't do research into something that you cannot access. Not having psykers is a big deal.
One needs psykers to access the warp. This is non negotiable, there is no work around.
One could try to jury rig the warp drive to start, but chances are they won't be coming home to give their findings.

I was under the impression that humans during the Dark age of technology didn't really rely on pyskers to travel the warp? That was more something that was required during and after the age of strife? Also don't ork and some other xeno races not really rely massivley on pyskers for warp travel?

Basically I know psykers do help massively in regards to warp travel, but it's not truly the be all end all is it?

Who said that human FTL is better? Tau FTL might be slower, but at least you aren't going to arrive thousands of years later, make a wrong turn and end up halfway across the galaxy, or have your entire ship literally devoured by demons and all of your crew damned to an eternity of unimaginable suffering.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

You can't do research into something that you cannot access. Not having psykers is a big deal.
One needs psykers to access the warp. This is non negotiable, there is no work around.
One could try to jury rig the warp drive to start, but chances are they won't be coming home to give their findings.

I was under the impression that humans during the Dark age of technology didn't really rely on pyskers to travel the warp? That was more something that was required during and after the age of strife? Also don't ork and some other xeno races not really rely massivley on pyskers for warp travel?

Basically I know psykers do help massively in regards to warp travel, but it's not truly the be all end all is it?

From what I remember, when humans were doing early warp travel it was rather dangerous as going in deep meant making what was more or less a blind jump. It wasn't until the creation of the navigators that real accuracy was achieved as they could perceive the warp. The tau have to do it the other way were they make a small jump, come back out, recalculate and jump back in. During the age of strife one of the problems was that a massive warp storm across the galaxy made accurate warp travel impossible again and even afterwards the astronomicon is needed as a stable point to navigate with as the warp has gotten really bad. It's not totally necessary but for any efficiency you need a navigator.
As for the other xenos races, the eldar don't use the warp but the webway, same with the necrons, the orks enter the warp and don't care were they come out so long as there is someone to fight, chaos factions have limited control over the warp and I'm not sure how the tyranids do it but I don't think it involves the warp.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
Basically I know psykers do help massively in regards to warp travel, but it's not truly the be all end all is it?

It's not necessary to have a Navigator but it does make warp travel much safer, faster and accurate when you have someone who can steer based on sensing the Astronomicon and the Warp around the ship. Ships reduced to calculating jumps on their cogitator machines can't really hope to do more than a few LY per jump, and they have no way of reacting to dangerous warp phenomena without a Navigator sensing them and steering around. A jump with a Navigator guiding it can go much farther and is much safer.

So without Navigators the Tau are stuck using either their own "warpskimming" or the vastly more dangerous "calculated jump" of Imperial ships that have lost their Navigator. Seems they're happy not risking their lives using tech and mystical dimensions they don't really understand yet.

Spetulhu wrote:
It's not necessary to have a Navigator but it does make warp travel much safer, faster and accurate when you have someone who can steer based on sensing the Astronomicon and the Warp around the ship. Ships reduced to calculating jumps on their cogitator machines can't really hope to do more than a few LY per jump, and they have no way of reacting to dangerous warp phenomena without a Navigator sensing them and steering around. A jump with a Navigator guiding it can go much farther and is much safer.

This is the main reason!

The heretical xenos do not have the telepathic choir of angels to sense the shining beacon of light that is the Emperor Himself. Thus, they are left floundering in the darkness, slaves to the foul depredations of Chaos!

(Okay, well since they're warp-skimming, they are actually safe from the biggest risks of warp travel but that also makes them slow. Low risk, low reward).

 Otto Weston wrote:
I understand that the Tau have gakky FTL because they merely skim the warp instead of entering it but here's my question -
Why haven't they been able to reverse-engineer Imperial FTL technology?

They have trouble reverse-engineering Ork technology, so give them a break. The Tau is a progressive and rapidly developing race, but their technological understanding is limited, and they are pretty-darn low-tech by the standards of the truly advanced factions. Gellar Fields don't grow on bushes, after all .

 Peregrine wrote:
Who said that human FTL is better? Tau FTL might be slower, but at least you aren't going to arrive thousands of years later, make a wrong turn and end up halfway across the galaxy, or have your entire ship literally devoured by demons and all of your crew damned to an eternity of unimaginable suffering.

Can't make an Omelette

There is a risk but this is massively reduced by the use of Navigators, Gellar fields and likely prayer to the God Emperor (or whatever he/it is now after millennium of worship and sacrifice).

Its a bit like the risk of space travel now............its very risky compared to most other forms of travel - but we do it.

By fully entering the warp - the Tau, like any other race, risk corruption, possession and just being devoured. Also remember they also have AI - so that's also subject to corruption and possession - possibly more of a worry

IMO Initial Tau experiments are going to end in a similar way to Event Horizon - the result of which could be a fun rpg adventure.....

Tau reverse engineering imperial warp drives and then figuring out how to use them properly would be like someone who has never seen or heard the ocean before reverse engineering and figuring out how to sail a nuclear submarine.

The Tau drives make sense to me, but what I don't understand is how the Niccassar ships travel between systems. By all accounts they are as psychic as all get out. If the Niccassar are a vassal race of the Tau, why don't they get pressed/volunteered into service on the Tau fleet?

 Flinty wrote:
The Tau drives make sense to me, but what I don't understand is how the Niccassar ships travel between systems. By all accounts they are as psychic as all get out. If the Niccassar are a vassal race of the Tau, why don't they get pressed/volunteered into service on the Tau fleet?

I don't think being physic is all it takes for Warp travel. You need Gellar fields and something like the Astronomican to guide you. The Tau lack access to either so pressing the Niccassar into service won't solve that.

The Tau do have warp tech, they got it from a salvaged imperial ship, it's nowhere near as advanced as the imperial tech but still uses the warp.

This is kind of unrelated but I've always wondered...

in 2nd edition there were mentions of psychic servitors that linked all of the forgeworlds so that the lesser worlds could quickly and easily upload all of their information to the Temple of All Knowledge (kind of like a galactic internet).

Provided that fluff is still valid, do you think Navigator-Servitors are possible, who can be wired directly into the mechanisms of the ship and therefore become a sort of "nav-cogitator"?

 Flinty wrote:
The Tau drives make sense to me, but what I don't understand is how the Niccassar ships travel between systems. By all accounts they are as psychic as all get out. If the Niccassar are a vassal race of the Tau, why don't they get pressed/volunteered into service on the Tau fleet?

The Tau are apparently protective of the Niccassar and they are seldom seen by other races IIRC.

I assume they have Gellar fields and Warp Drive - unless their ships are actually propelled and protected by psychic power ?? If the latter might explain the small size of their ships, their rarity and the difficultly integrating them into the Tau navy. No source on the latter - just a speculation..............

I don't think they have captured much in the way of forgeworlds, which is likely to be the location of facilities to manufacture geller field devices or warp engines.

But really, without a navigator, they can't use a warp drive effectively or even at all.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I assume they have Gellar fields and Warp Drive - unless their ships are actually propelled and protected by psychic power ?? If the latter might explain the small size of their ships, their rarity and the difficultly integrating them into the Tau navy. No source on the latter - just a speculation..............

Well the lexicanum entry (from Battlefield Gothic, seems outdated) says they "lack any real interstellar capability." The wikia uses the same source and elaborates a bit:

"As subjects of the Tau Empire the Nicassar must serve the Greater Good and do so by providing fleets of Dhows to scout and explore star systems on the fringes of the Tau Empire. They are transported to their station by Tau vessels using gravitic hooks that are capable of interstellar travel through the Warp and commence a leisurely circuit reporting anything they find."

The "capable of interstellar travel through the Warp" part seems to imply the Nicassar can't. Seems like they rely on the Tau for interstellar travel and the Tau use them for sub-light scouting.
There's more:

"This led to the original exploration of their home system, as they are only truly content when travelling. Because they can survive for long periods in virtual hibernation as a result of their alien physiologies, they have travelled far from their homeworld, albeit slowly."

"First contact between the Nicassar and the Tau Empire came when a Tau Gal'leath-class vessel was setting up a Waystation in interstellar space and sighted a Nicassar flotilla that had been in space for centuries."

"Nicassar starships are primarily sleeper ships, in which the majority of the crew enter a state of hibernation that the Nicassar's alien physiology makes possible as the flotilla, consisting of multiple Dhows docked together, drifts between the stars, directed by the efforts of a few non-hibernating Nicassar crewmen."

Yea, their ships are probably slow as feth compared to Imperial or even Tau vessels.