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@dman please stfu your giving us csm players a bad name please I'd quite happily take my csm vs you and I'd probably slaughter you lol. From the impression I g you don't understand tactics and rely on raw power to win

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
@dman please stfu your giving us csm players a bad name please I'd quite happily take my csm vs you and I'd probably slaughter you lol. From the impression I g you don't understand tactics and rely on raw power to win

This sentence was difficult to read.

It's hard to form an opinion on the new Tau until I have read the new codex. We've seen several leaks on various new units (Breechers, Ghostkeel, Stormsurge and now the commander crisis suit). Anyone that plays Tau know that it's all about the wargear and how the units work together that make/break the army. We still don't know if Markerlights have been changed, how Supporting Fire may or may not work yet, support weapons, etc. etc.

When those questions are answered, THEN we can say how awesome/disappointing the Tau are.

kburn wrote:

Caederes wrote:


This is also sadly incorrect. Necrons were trash in 5th Edition until the actual 5th/6th Edition codex written by Matt Ward came out. The only army that is consistently decent to good is Space Marines to my knowledge with maybe the exception of 4th Edition.

Chaos Space Marines were uber-strong in 3.5, while Dark Angels have a powerful new codex, so neither of those qualify either.

False.

Did you forget living metal and monolith spam in 3rd? Did you forget that all their stuff could glance anything to death? Did you forget reanimation protocols? The only thing that was bad was pariahs.

4th edition space marines had chapter tactics which made them extremely modular and responsive, it was their best dex if you ignore grav-spam. people keep saying SM were powerful, yet there were hard counters every edition, especially from eldar. SM has been solidly middle-class, never even coming close to touching eldar. Do you play eldar? This falsehood is often propogated by eldar players.

CSM was one of the top in 3rd with IW oblit/basilisk spam, good in 4th with lash prince, and average with hellturkey after that. Always a 1-trick pony with all other units being crap. Cult marines has been consistently bad, except sometimes with plague marines good once in a long while. They're the most similar to tyranids, except tyranids being much worse.

LOL @ DA being powerful. confirmed for eldar player.

Did you read my post at all? I said Necrons in 5th Edition before the Matt Ward codex. They were trash tier in 5th Edition until they got updated, end of story.

I didn't say Space Marines were the strongest faction, I said they were arguably the most consistent in that they've never had a poor codex for an edition. Eldar were mediocre in 5th Edition. Again, simple logic.

How does your Chaos Space Marine talk disprove my point that Chaos Space Marines were exceptionally strong in 3.5 which was itself a response to another poster saying Chaos Space Marines have always had bad codices?

Regarding Dark Angels, you're either oblivious or just trolling. Ravenwing are one of the hottest new builds in the competitive scene and numerous respected tournament players/personalities have all attested to this. To say they don't have a strong codex now is outright wrong.

I'm also not an Eldar player. Quit acting like a child.

Eldar were mediocre in 5th Edition.

They were hard to play with, but people were wining GT sized events with footdar. Show me a GT sized event won, by realy mediocre armies in 5th like old IG or DE or DA?

 Gamgee wrote:
Our formations are going to have to be amazing for us to be seen in competitive lists and teams.

Somehow I got the feeling GW is going to mess that up too. Every single new thing we've seen has been basically a lemon. The best of the units is the mediocre Stormsurge and the good side grade of the XV95.

All of the major tournament players I've spoken to heavily disagree with you. All of the major tournament players I've seen that have shared their opinions on the new units have had very hopeful thoughts. Hell, Reecius and Frankie both predicted the "mediocre" Stormsurge would become a fixture of competitive Tau lists in ITC events in units of two. If they were so "mediocre", why would those two suggest players would spend 720+ points on them for their tournament lists?

Besides, even if we go by your logic that the new releases are terrible and that this must mean the codex is going to be awful, stop and use your brain for just a second. How do the rules for a handful of new units have any bearing on the codex? Do you know what Broadsides/Riptides/Fire Warriors/Skyrays/Kroot/Vespid/Pathfinders/etc are in the new codex? No? Do you have any actual evidence that any of our good units are being nerfed? Additionally, do you have any evidence that are bad units aren't getting buffs? You don't, so stop spreading this preposterous pre-release hate for a book you haven't even read.

I don't buy into the "Tau are going to be over-powered" talk either but this kind of behaviour is just laughable. You have absolutely no idea about the individual datasheets of 20+ units, the general wargear rules, the relics, the formations, the unique detachment or darn near anything that constitutes the majority of a codex. If you want to keep trash-talking a codex that hasn't released yet, go ahead and do so. Or, if you want to have a proper discussion about the facts when they become available for a product we have no real knowledge of, join in on the fun in a week or two. If they end up sucking, cool, your opinion will be vindicated. It won't change the fact that you're jumping the gun over nothing.

I'm sorry if it sounds like a personal attack as I don't mean it to be that way, but honestly, I'm so sick and tired of this kind of reaction. It's the same damn thing every time a codex is about to be/is released. The difference here is we haven't even seen anything from the codex aside from the profiles of four new units, when we have an existing roster of twenty-four units. I get that you're a Tau player and you don't like most of the new releases, that's fine. But damning a codex before you've even read it and implying that the codex will be dead in the water unless they get uber-good formations? Come on.

Hold on, can I ask Dman himself a question: what exactly is wrong with Tau gettinga unit not as good as the rest of their good units?

Makumba wrote:

Eldar were mediocre in 5th Edition.

They were hard to play with, but people were wining GT sized events with footdar. Show me a GT sized event won, by realy mediocre armies in 5th like old IG or DE or DA?

They were still considered widely mediocre because of the difficulty of playing them, meaning the best tournament players could get big wins with them but the vast majority of players couldn't do squat with them. Take the current Tyranid book for example, people have been getting big wins with Lictor-oriented/Flyrant-oriented lists, but it doesn't change the fact that the codex is mediocre.

One thing that remains to be seen with the Coldstar is whether the battlesuit itself confers certain benefits that wouldn't be listed in the WD snapshot.

As it is currently, the army list entry lists the particular Battlesuit worn by the unit, and then you have to flip to the Wargear section to see what that particular Battlesuit does.

It could run like this:

BATTLESUIT...............ARMOUR SAVE

Stealth..........................3+
Crisis............................3+
Broadside.....................3+
Enforcer........................2+
Coldstar........................2+
Riptide..........................2+

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
One thing that remains to be seen with the Coldstar is whether the battlesuit itself confers certain benefits that wouldn't be listed in the WD snapshot.

As it is currently, the army list entry lists the particular Battlesuit worn by the unit, and then you have to flip to the Wargear section to see what that particular Battlesuit does.

It could run like this:

BATTLESUIT...............ARMOUR SAVE

Stealth..........................3+
Crisis............................3+
Broadside.....................3+
Enforcer........................2+
Coldstar........................2+
Riptide..........................2+

It's possible seeing as the wargear for the stock Commander simply reads "Crisis Battlesuit" which would imply there is a section detailing what each battlesuit comes with, just like with the current 6th Edition codex. I'm a bit on the fence though seeing as the Coldstar entry does state it comes with a Multi-Tracker and Blacksun Filter, meaning there likely won't be a part for it in that aforementioned battlesuit section.

kburn wrote:
LOL @ DA being powerful. confirmed for eldar player.

I guess I must be an Eldar player too even though I don't have a single space elf miniature because I say that the new DA codex IS powerful. If you disagree I'm guessing that you haven't played against Ravenwing or SuperFriends yet.

Pretty much @Lammikkovalas. I can't believe people still think Dark Angels are weak, it's almost as bad as the whole "Chaos Daemons have a weak codex" stuff.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

kburn wrote:
LOL @ DA being powerful. confirmed for eldar player.

I guess I must be an Eldar player too even though I don't have a single space elf miniature because I say that the new DA codex IS powerful. If you disagree I'm guessing that you haven't played against Ravenwing or SuperFriends yet.

Yup DA is very powerful now. Which I personally think is a good thing since they have finally gotten a codex that doesn't suck.

The previews in WD are fairly reflective of the eventual unit entry, but they don't include everything. The new Dwarf character lacked any armour listed in his WD entry but he had gromril in the Dwarf book, for example, and the 'Fire Team' rule on the Ghostkeel isn't defined in its entry. Those are just two examples, I'm sure there are others.

Also true, I'm personally hoping if anything it has Toughness 5 as otherwise it just takes one failed grounding test/lucky Strength 8 hit to insta-gib what is probably a decently expensive unit. In contrast, Strength 10 isn't nearly as common so it would have a much easier time that way.

If you took a snap shot of the Wolf Lord entry in the Space Wolf book and saw the upgrade to a Thunderwolf, you would have no idea what that really did.

The Coldstar could easily modify several stats and we wouldn't know it just by the snap shot. I like the idea of a suit with FMC maneuverability. The loss of a few MC rules is not that big of a deal to me, and the best part is that the unit doesn't have to start in reserve and can join another unit during deployment.

There is a rumor riptides can take coldstar upgrade.

IG was by far the top tier army in 5th.

I'm seeing a lot of "waahhhhh my tau won't become the new eldar" which is a great thing as this game needs to start being more balanced and not lets spam all the most powerful units in the game so I can roflstomp everyone I come across.

Balance being brought in by a new codex? HERESY!

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of "waahhhhh my tau won't become the new eldar" which is a great thing as this game needs to start being more balanced and not lets spam all the most powerful units in the game so I can roflstomp everyone I come across.

Balance being brought in by a new codex? HERESY!

Quoted and exalted for truth. The most powerful codexes need to be toned down, and the least powerful need to be brought up.

Ideally, once 8th edition drops, everyone will be updated at the same time.

Ideally

Dozer Blades wrote:There is a rumor riptides can take coldstar upgrade.

IG was by far the top tier army in 5th.

Holy....that would be insane! I'm guessing it's not true.

Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:I'm seeing a lot of "waahhhhh my tau won't become the new eldar" which is a great thing as this game needs to start being more balanced and not lets spam all the most powerful units in the game so I can roflstomp everyone I come across.

Balance being brought in by a new codex? HERESY!

I'm hoping for a Space Marine-tier codex, meaning very good and flexible.

This has probably already been said but the thing that makes all the other new codices so good is the formations and "decurions" which we haven't seen for tau yet.

At this point with previous releases we maybe new Space marines hadn't really change much apart from dreads and scouts, Necrons hadn't either apart from reanimation becoming FNP+, Eldar got their GC and a couple interesting little changes but it would have all been just as disappointing if not more so than what we know of the tau update.

No ones got anywhere near the number of new releases Tau are getting and i'm sure their "decurion" will be just as effective as the Decurion, Battlehost, Lions Blade and Gladius when we find out about it, so there's no real grounds to say its disappointing so far compared to the other army updates.

Taffy17 wrote:
This has probably already been said but the thing that makes all the other new codices so good is the formations and "decurions" which we haven't seen for tau yet.

At this point with previous releases we maybe new Space marines hadn't really change much apart from dreads and scouts, Necrons hadn't either apart from reanimation becoming FNP+, Eldar got their GC and a couple interesting little changes but it would have all been just as disappointing if not more so than what we know of the tau update.

No ones got anywhere near the number of new releases Tau are getting and i'm sure their "decurion" will be just as effective as the Decurion, Battlehost, Lions Blade and Gladius when we find out about it, so there's no real grounds to say its disappointing so far compared to the other army updates.

Exalted. How people are legitimately writing this codex off already when we know so little is almost beyond belief.

kburn wrote:

Caederes wrote:


This is also sadly incorrect. Necrons were trash in 5th Edition until the actual 5th/6th Edition codex written by Matt Ward came out. The only army that is consistently decent to good is Space Marines to my knowledge with maybe the exception of 4th Edition.

Chaos Space Marines were uber-strong in 3.5, while Dark Angels have a powerful new codex, so neither of those qualify either.

False.

Did you forget living metal and monolith spam in 3rd? Did you forget that all their stuff could glance anything to death? Did you forget reanimation protocols? The only thing that was bad was pariahs.

4th edition space marines had chapter tactics which made them extremely modular and responsive, it was their best dex if you ignore grav-spam. people keep saying SM were powerful, yet there were hard counters every edition, especially from eldar. SM has been solidly middle-class, never even coming close to touching eldar. Do you play eldar? This falsehood is often propogated by eldar players.

CSM was one of the top in 3rd with IW oblit/basilisk spam, good in 4th with lash prince, and average with hellturkey after that. Always a 1-trick pony with all other units being crap. Cult marines has been consistently bad, except sometimes with plague marines good once in a long while. They're the most similar to tyranids, except tyranids being much worse.

LOL @ DA being powerful. confirmed for eldar player.

If you aren't even going to read the posts you respond to, you should probably just stop arguing incessantly.

Also, the irony of how bad you mock Eldar for being brainless and OP, going as far as saying "lol Eldar player confirmed" in response to a opinion you deem outlandish (never mind that it's a very accurate one and shows how out of touch you are) is not lost on me, considering your original argument is that Tau shouldn't be so crippled to be playing 40k amongst the majorities power level, and we shouldn't be whining if you guys are allowed to compete with Eldar in brokenness again. The dualistic nature of your two statements due to personal bias is pretty hilarious.

Also, am I wrong in think that Eldar are one of the armies best suited to deal with the things that make DA so strong? Making that statement just nothing but pure biased nonsense?

Caederes wrote:
Reecius and Frankie both predicted the "mediocre" Stormsurge would become a fixture of competitive Tau lists in ITC events in units of two. If they were so "mediocre", why would those two suggest players would spend 720+ points on them for their tournament lists?

Well, I'm not saying that Stormsurge is lacking at all, but a fair answer to that question would be "because they are two average players who are better suited to making interesting blogs and batreps?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of "waahhhhh my tau won't become the new eldar" which is a great thing as this game needs to start being more balanced and not lets spam all the most powerful units in the game so I can roflstomp everyone I come across.

Balance being brought in by a new codex? HERESY!

Well said

Caederes wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
This has probably already been said but the thing that makes all the other new codices so good is the formations and "decurions" which we haven't seen for tau yet.

At this point with previous releases we maybe new Space marines hadn't really change much apart from dreads and scouts, Necrons hadn't either apart from reanimation becoming FNP+, Eldar got their GC and a couple interesting little changes but it would have all been just as disappointing if not more so than what we know of the tau update.

No ones got anywhere near the number of new releases Tau are getting and i'm sure their "decurion" will be just as effective as the Decurion, Battlehost, Lions Blade and Gladius when we find out about it, so there's no real grounds to say its disappointing so far compared to the other army updates.

Exalted. How people are legitimately writing this codex off already when we know so little is almost beyond belief.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling, and if a new book isn't Eldar x10 then it's obviously CSM -1,000,000!

 Gamgee wrote:
Yeah I want the Ta'unar pretty badly (but its banned in the ITC and we try stick to their guidelines). I would only use it if my opponents had some equivalent units of power and they don't or don't want to bring them. If I get the Ta'unar its not going to see the table that frequently.

I love you right now. This is how you should play with big units, don't force them down your opponents throat, see if they want to play with them/have units of equivalent power.

I can be nice if my opponent is. Also the ITC has voted in experimentals. Which means free reign on my Y'vahrah and R'varna suits. Muahaaha! Let the reaping begin!

That's the spirit!

Caederes wrote:

Makumba wrote:

Eldar were mediocre in 5th Edition.

They were hard to play with, but people were wining GT sized events with footdar. Show me a GT sized event won, by realy mediocre armies in 5th like old IG or DE or DA?

They were still considered widely mediocre because of the difficulty of playing them, meaning the best tournament players could get big wins with them but the vast majority of players couldn't do squat with them. Take the current Tyranid book for example, people have been getting big wins with Lictor-oriented/Flyrant-oriented lists, but it doesn't change the fact that the codex is mediocre.

In one format that favors the list greatly, nerfs invisbility and everything eldar. In all other tournaments, like the ones in europe, the list does not work at all.

Welcome to DakkaDakka, where the sky is always falling, and if a new book isn't Eldar x10 then it's obviously CSM -1,000,000!

I am still waiting for the updates to IG told, posters promised me and the streamlining of other armies. On the other hand. Or at least for someone to explain to me again why the IG codex is fine.

Balance being brought in by a new codex? HERESY!

How do the tau balance anything. Do they keep in check eldar or necron or grav marines, so other armies can get a better chance?

I'm disappointed in the look of the new stealth suit....thing.

All the new suits are looking the same now a days they should each visually differ I mean they could have given the new suit a stealth look just for aesthetics like hard corners like a stealth bomber I know it won't make sense in the world but it would give it a different look to yet another thrown together from spare tau parts battlesuit



Also when do we get:

Eh, I like it, it's in line, visually, with XV25s. Although it's head it pretty stupid, either go along with the built in head, or the robot head, not both.