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Basically, what do think about Obama? Do you think he sucks (like I do), or do you think he's a glorious black saint who should be venerated and praised above all other US Presidents?

Personally, I think that Obama both completely screwed up the US Healthcare system (speaking as someone who has a nurse for a mother and a Doctor uncle who are very outspoken of how crappy its gotten since ObamaCare), and screwed the pooch even more with Iraq. You might be saying," no! He saved US soldiers' lives and finally got the US to stop screwing up over there. But, the issue is, by pulling us out, he left an already screwed-up situation and just let it fester. If we had stayed deployed, we could have maintained our hold on the region (and its valuable resources), while keeping it [relatively] stable, and slowly improving the situation over time. Instead of actually trying to correct the massive shitstorm Bush raised over there, he basically just said,"feth it, all, as President of the United States, I can guarantee to you that it would be so much better if we didn't clean up our own mess. You all do it for us." I'm probably alone in this opinion, as it seems like people think he can do no wrong and could walk on water, but what does Dakka think about the guy who only got elected because he's black?

Sort of neutral? He wasn't anything spectacular, and certainly not what he marketed himself to be. He's done both good an ill, but overall I don't think his lasting impact will be a truley negative one. Most of the real "bad" he has done is up to the person in question's political alignment. Although the same could be said of the "good". It's hard to tell at this point.

He's a mediocre president who hasn't impressed me with his leadership abilities. Yeah, the republicans have taken obstruction for the sake of obstruction to an art form, but why haven't we been able to do better than this? On the other hand, he's certainly done a better job than whatever republican alternative we could have elected instead, so that has to count for something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dusara217 wrote:
but what does Dakka think about the guy who only got elected because he's black?

Sorry, but this is just laughably wrong. Obama was elected for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with his race.

 Peregrine wrote:
He's a mediocre president who hasn't impressed me with his leadership abilities. Yeah, the republicans have taken obstruction for the sake of obstruction to an art form, but why haven't we been able to do better than this? On the other hand, he's certainly done a better job than whatever republican alternative we could have elected instead, so that has to count for something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dusara217 wrote:
but what does Dakka think about the guy who only got elected because he's black?

Sorry, but this is just laughably wrong. Obama was elected for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with his race.

I'll agree that he was mediocre, but disagree about the rest of your post.

I think he would be suited to be a better advisor, than a actual leader. He seemed to care more about smaller local issues than larger ones. His foreign policy has been a joke and domestically, he has been idealistic, but not very cooperative or transparent.

On the black topic I'm not so sure. I don't know how many people told me they were voting for him just because he is black (including my mother).

And I definitely don't believe he did better than any republican would have. Now a days I agree with what my dad has said. There isn't any good politicians anymore. Your just voting for what you believe is the lesser of 2 evils.

I'd say it helped him get elected, but it certainly wasn't why. He is an excellent campaigner and speech-giver. Although, honestly, the D's could have run pretty much anybody and they would have been elected, considering the past 8 years of bush ,and Palin being an idiot all over the place.

I've disagreed with some of his decisions.

I cast an honest vote in the poll, but I'd prefer not to make negative remarks about a sitting president. Regardless of my personal opinion about some of the decisions he's made, he remains the Commander-in-Chief, and I'll continue to give him my support until his last day in office. At which point a candid assessment of his successes and failures can be tabulated.


Apropos of nothing, have you ever read The Eyes of the Dragon? Of a ruler in that novel, the narrator said, "he tried very hard not to do anyone great evil, and mostly succeeded. He also tried very hard to do great works, but, unfortunately, didn't succeed so well at that."

yellowfever wrote:
On the black topic I'm not so sure. I don't know how many people told me they were voting for him just because he is black (including my mother).

I seriously doubt that people who sincerely voted for Obama based only on his race are anywhere near a majority of the people who voted for him. Remember, this is the election following an incredibly unpopular president from the republican party. Virtually any democrat would have won that election simply by saying "I'm not Bush".

And I definitely don't believe he did better than any republican would have.

Have you seen the republican party platform these days? Tax cuts for the wealthy, ignore the debt problem entirely, cut infrastructure spending (including roads, education, etc) as much as possible, and make stopping gay marriage the top priority. Obama probably would have been better than the republican alternative even if he'd showed up on day 1, put a "gone golfing" sign on his desk, and never come back.

I love the changes to health care. Because of the changes, my mom pays less for her medecine. Rather than Paying 1200$ a quarter, i get 850$ a back a quarter.
Alot of lower income people I know now have to pay less for their care, meaning they now have more money.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I love the changes to health care. Because of the changes, my mom pays less for her medecine. Rather than Paying 1200$ a quarter, i get 850$ a back a quarter.
Alot of lower income people I know now have to pay less for their care, meaning they now have more money.

Very few people are in that boat though. Way more people, including small businesses, are paying more for healthcare. I know many small businesses were forced to cut back employee hours because they couldn't afford the new mandated health care if they worked certain hours. On top of the whole online system setting new standards in failure for government entities.

 Peregrine wrote:

Have you seen the republican party platform these days? Tax cuts for the wealthy, ignore the debt problem entirely, cut infrastructure spending (including roads, education, etc) as much as possible, and make stopping gay marriage the top priority. Obama probably would have been better than the republican alternative even if he'd showed up on day 1, put a "gone golfing" sign on his desk, and never come back.

Romney would have been far superior. He wouldn't have embarrassed us on the national stage like Obama has.

Neutral overall I guess?

I like some of what he's done. I don't like some other things he has done.

I think he gets a lot of hate from a lot of people for things that are not something he can do something about, or is being actively prevented from doing something about by political opponents, or that are carryovers from the previous administration, or that simply aren't what people think they are to begin with/don't actually exist.

I do believe he has been unfairly stymied by the Republican opposition who appear to simply oppose anything he's for just because he's for it (and in some cases have pretty much openly stated that as a core policy), though he's not the only one and the recent issue with the House Speaker hilarity and their autocannibalism is preventing *anyone* from doing anything.

On the other hand, I don't think he gets enough heat for a lot of other things that he *SHOULD* get heat for, and has had his share of rather stupid moments.

Not the greatest president we've had, not the worst, thoroughly mediocre, but ultimately I think, better than his campaign opponents, though I wouldn't take that as high praise, particularly given the low bar of his 2012 opposition.

I like him. He seems like a really friendly guy with good intentions and ideas.

yellowfever wrote:
There isn't any good politicians anymore. Your just voting for what you believe is the lesser of 2 evils.

This, to an extent.

I'd say there are good politicians but they don't make it to the main Presidential race, instead being looked over in favor of "more electable" people who are more gimmicky/popular rather than being better suited for the Presidency. By that stage, yes, we're stuck voting for who is less gak.

As for Obama, meh, I think he's been a gak President, but the other choices weren't exactly great either.

 Alex C wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
There isn't any good politicians anymore. Your just voting for what you believe is the lesser of 2 evils.

This, to an extent.

I'd say there are good politicians but they don't make it to the main Presidential race, instead being looked over in favor of "more electable" people who are more gimmicky/popular rather than being better suited for the Presidency. By that stage, yes, we're stuck voting for who is less gak.

As for Obama, meh, I think he's been a gak President, but the other choices weren't exactly great either.

This is my take of it all perfectly.

To comment as an outsider, I think Obama has done a good job. Free healthcare is something that I would argue is a staple for any nation that wants to call itself modern and civilised, and I'm frankly amazed at how much opposition there was to it. He does seem to be a politician that genuinely has a belief and and a set of ideals, especially compared to a lot of politicians over here (although I recognise that impression may come from just seeing less of him than I do of our lot). But he certainly seems to have done his best to be progressive and effective, though was hampered a lot by a ridiculous level of opposition.

I don't think he's been as bad as I would have thought. I don't think he gets enough flak for not fulfilling the lofty dreams of his campaign speeches. I think he truly wants to do good Ned shows great compassion at times.

I also think he opens his yap way too soon and manages to make things worse instead of letting a situation develope before making a statement. If he hadn't crowed about his red line (which they almost immediately crossed) in Syria and started his negotiations with "Assad has to go..." We wouldn't have the clusterfeth that is the ME right now. Just because he didn't want to be like Bush he didn't solve a situation when it could have been solved. Now we have a proxy war with Russia and all but allied with Iran. Not to mention the wave of refugees crashing into Europe.


Para, it isn't "free healthcare" it's "government mandated healthcare with subsidies for the poor". I pay way more than I was before Obamacare was instated.

 Paradigm wrote:
To comment as an outsider, I think Obama has done a good job. Free healthcare is something that I would argue is a staple for any nation that wants to call itself modern and civilised, and I'm frankly amazed at how much opposition there was to it. He does seem to be a politician that genuinely has a belief and and a set of ideals, especially compared to a lot of politicians over here (although I recognise that impression may come from just seeing less of him than I do of our lot). But he certainly seems to have done his best to be progressive and effective, though was hampered a lot by a ridiculous level of opposition.

Free health care? Where's m mine then? I HAVE to pay for mine and its pretty far from free

Ah, sorry about the healthcare mixup, like I say I don't follow US politics too closely so I was going off hazy memory. For the record I do support subsidizing healthcare for the poor, but I can see now why some would object.

I also get fewer hours at work due to Obamacare, and our healthcare costs went up several hundred dollars per paycheck.

I'd have no problem with an NHS-style system, but Obamacare is not it.

 dusara217 wrote:
Basically, what do think about Obama? Do you think he sucks (like I do), or do you think he's a glorious black saint who should be venerated and praised above all other US Presidents?

Personally, I think that Obama both completely screwed up the US Healthcare system (speaking as someone who has a nurse for a mother and a Doctor uncle who are very outspoken of how crappy its gotten since ObamaCare), and screwed the pooch even more with Iraq. You might be saying," no! He saved US soldiers' lives and finally got the US to stop screwing up over there. But, the issue is, by pulling us out, he left an already screwed-up situation and just let it fester. If we had stayed deployed, we could have maintained our hold on the region (and its valuable resources), while keeping it [relatively] stable, and slowly improving the situation over time. Instead of actually trying to correct the massive shitstorm Bush raised over there, he basically just said,"feth it, all, as President of the United States, I can guarantee to you that it would be so much better if we didn't clean up our own mess. You all do it for us." I'm probably alone in this opinion, as it seems like people think he can do no wrong and could walk on water, but what does Dakka think about the guy who only got elected because he's black?

Wow, teen angst much?

Perhaps look into a few of the issues you mention yourself (properly, not just reading Fox "news") and draw your own conclusions rather than just spewing out a bunch of regurgitated opinions of your immediate family.

Hell, I am not an Obama cheerleader but come on...

I think he's a man in a job far over his head.

Leading questions aside (ref. what does Dakka think about the peanut, which is only a popular food because George Washington Carver was black, and people are idiots?)

I like him, he seems like a good person. He did not accomplish many things he campaigned on. Specifically, universal health care, ending both of our major wars, and shutting down Gitmo. I'm not sure I know enough about Gitmo to know if closing it is a good idea. I don't know enough about the current situation in Afghanistan to question the judgment of our generals. But I do know, like our friend Bernie Sanders keeps pointing out, that we are one of the only First World countries that does not garuntee health care as a right, and that lets insurance compainies make obscene profits on our healthcare.

So in my view, he failed to accomplish the campaign goal that caused me to vote for him: universal helathcare. And while many of Obama's policy failures can legitimately be blamed on the governmental nihilists in Congress, universal healthcare cannot. He could have rammed this through when Democrats controlled Congress.

Short Story: Ran from the left, governed from the center.

 Paradigm wrote:
Ah, sorry about the healthcare mixup, like I say I don't follow US politics too closely so I was going off hazy memory. For the record I do support subsidizing healthcare for the poor, but I can see now why some would object.

The problem is that Healthcare in the US has become big business.

For them to follow our Universal Healthcare system, taxes across the board would have to up, (ie: everyone gets hit!), and the healthcare insurance industry as it exists would have to be abandoned entirely and re-built from the ground up to better support the government funded system.

It's entirely doable, but it would be massively painful and a shock to the system for a good bit.

When his tombstone gets made it should read this..


"At least he tried."

I don't follow politics, so my opinion might not be entirely factual, but I'm kind of, "meh," with Obama. He didn't destroy the country, but didn't do very much on it either.

I still think he's doing a better job than our current Prime Minister though.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I love the changes to health care. Because of the changes, my mom pays less for her medecine. Rather than Paying 1200$ a quarter, i get 850$ a back a quarter.
Alot of lower income people I know now have to pay less for their care, meaning they now have more money.

Very few people are in that boat though. Way more people, including small businesses, are paying more for healthcare. I know many small businesses were forced to cut back employee hours because they couldn't afford the new mandated health care if they worked certain hours. On top of the whole online system setting new standards in failure for government entities.

I do not know a single persone outside my cousin(Who, despite whining about how much it costs, he can buy a new racecar for himself easily) who it idnt improve medicine for. IF those that make more have to pay more, im fine by that. Share the wealth.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I love the changes to health care. Because of the changes, my mom pays less for her medecine. Rather than Paying 1200$ a quarter, i get 850$ a back a quarter.
Alot of lower income people I know now have to pay less for their care, meaning they now have more money.

Very few people are in that boat though. Way more people, including small businesses, are paying more for healthcare. I know many small businesses were forced to cut back employee hours because they couldn't afford the new mandated health care if they worked certain hours. On top of the whole online system setting new standards in failure for government entities.

I do not know a single persone outside my cousin(Who, despite whining about how much it costs, he can buy a new racecar for himself easily) who it idnt improve medicine for. IF those that make more have to pay more, im fine by that. Share the wealth.

We aren't talking about people who can afford racecars. We're talking about people with a house that they have a 30 year mortgage on and make 5 figures, or small business owners. Those people got shafted. And they make up a large majority of the country. It basically screwed the middle class over.

Especially those people who make enough to not qualify for the subsidies, but are still forced to purchase more expensive healthcare.

My cousin is what you will describe as "Middle Class"(As meaningless as that terms tends to actually be, in describing an actual class)

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My cousin is what you will describe as "Middle Class"(As meaningless as that terms tends to actually be, in describing an actual class)

It doesn't matter what box you want to try and put him in, if he can "afford a racecar".

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My cousin is what you will describe as "Middle Class"(As meaningless as that terms tends to actually be, in describing an actual class)

How much does your cousin actually make? I suspect he's not actually middle class. I think you are conflating lifestyle with actual income. Lots of people who fall into the Upper Class live identically to the Middle Class. They live in the suburbs, eat at the same restaurants, wear the same clothes, etc... They might have some higher quality stuff, but they're not what many people think the Upper Class is. They're not drinking champagne and eating caviar while driving around in a Lamborghini.