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The WS4 is useful when you get to use the Krak grenades in CC (which DKoK guardsmen come with, so its not even a matter of thinking wether or not you want them), because at this point instead of flatout die in CC vs MC and Vehicles, you'll be able to attack with a few grenades, and possibly inflict damage before dieing.

-Forge World is part of 40k.-
Simple as that. The 7E core set not only shows off FW models in pictures throughout the books, but has rules for them as part of the basic rule set. (Rules for Gargantuan creatures, with all those GW plastic sets for them...)

-Cost of Entry?-
Between the player who had a full FW army or the guy with the second hand marines with their styrofoam cup drop pods. Its a game. Enjoy it how ever you can and want to. Don't discriminate against those who have more or less money.

-Balance-
40k is not a perfectly balanced game even at its core. Fair enough.

-Don't know the rules / availability-
In the age of the internet. The information is out there. Plus, I highly doubt any gamer out there has all current codexes memorized or readily available. So, ask to see rules, learn from each other. Playing against the unknown is a great learning experience. You don't always have to win, and some times the struggles can be more fun.

-Buts its different and scares me!-
GW likes selling new kits and books. Things will change and be updated. If you want a perfectly static rule set look elsewhere.

I played a tournament two weeks back. ITC rule set. I had 3 knights, one of them a FW knight. Many were quick to call me TFG. I didn't even place in the top 10 out of 22 players. Played a game using a Warhound vs Dark Angels a week ago. I lost by turn 5 with no chance of victory. FW is not a scary instant win button by any stretch of the imagination.

Down here we only used to ban 4 things:

- Void Shields
- D weapons
- Super-heavies
- Double FOC

With 7th, double FOC became moot and we dropped it. Last week I talked with my group and everyone relaxed towards void shields. D-weapons and Super-heavies are still disputed, but we're mostly waiting for every codex to have both inside. As we have a Dark Eldar player, looks like both will take a while to show up in our games.

There's a city 3h from here, where we go play with veteran players once a year. Those guys value models and cool stuff on the table way more than simple plain rules, so they allow everything. Only then one of our players use the IK we have around, and my future Ta'unar

FW? Allowed since first day

Arkaine it sounds like your group has decided to ban 7th edition while still playing it.

I personally play Renegades & Heretics, and have done so since I got back into 40k in 6th edition, when IG and CSM were Allies of Convenience. When 7th edition hit and they became CtA, it suddenly became a lot more difficult to play those two armies together, due to the 12" deployment distance.

Luckily, ForgeWorld released two great books for me: IA:13 and Siege of Vraks (2nd edition). Through these two books I've stayed active in the hobby, because to be fair, the standard CSM book is so crap that I don't enjoy playing it at all. If I play CSM now I'll take Sorcerors, Cultists, Heldrakes and Spawn, the rest will be IA:13 units.

My local tournament organizers had a vote a little while back, where banning ForgeWorld was brought up. Luckily it didn't pass, because I would simply stop attending those tournaments and would get into another game. Could I have played my army without ForgeWorld units? Sure, but I wouldn't enjoy it so I'd be out.

Renegades are able to build some rather "cheesy" lists, this is because some things are admittedly undercosted (plague zombie mobs and Rapier Laser Destroyers), but imo their strenght comes from being a meta-breaker. Single-shot D-weapons? Not scared. Grav? I laugh it off. Is it more powerful than what you find in standard GW codexes? No, Renegades aren't near Decurion Necrons, Eldar, Battle Companies etc. I understand that some people are skeptical of suddenly facing "new" units they've never encountered before, but c'mon... This is 7th edition, you get new formations every week. ForgeWorld's release schedule is very slow in comparison and mostly everything you need to know is easy to read up on online, through review blogs and whatnot.

I promise you that the first time you face a War Convocation or a Skyhammer (or both in one army!) will hurt a lot more than the first time you face my FW units. The only time I've had people complain about my army has been when I bring 3 void shield generators. Partly because of how annoying they are to deal with for some armies, and partly because my conversions were sketchy, which I'll admit. But guess what? That's a GW model which GW decided to release in a limited format.

While the topic of heavily comped 40k is a wider topic than just FW I personally feel that it's more damaging to the hobby than anything. I'm okay with banning FW super-heavies because facing a Revenant Titan is just not fun. But when I read some of the restrictions in this thread and on other forums I just get shocked. No Death Korps?! No Imperial Bastions? No flyers? No Allies? What's next, I can't paint my Bloodletters white or wear my glasses while I play? No thank you, I'll avoid those clubs like I avoid North Korea, and they can have fun with themselves in their respective bubbles.

How do these restrictive places tend to stand on White Dwarf rules?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
'cuz then you can fling in SM player that your puny guardsman, is in fact, as good as that marine in CC.

And then he gets promptly squished because he's not as fast, whomp whomp.

But seriously, from a gameplay POV, how often has that WS4 been useful?

Generally, if your guardsmen are in CC, something has gone wrong and you want them to die ASAP so that your other guys can shoot whatever charged them.

It is a surprising help actually, mainly for being hit on 4s rather than 3s most of the time and therefore reducing the number of incoming wounds. The extra WS tends to be the biggest help with Characters, who are more likely armed with a melta bomb or power weapon. It's much more useful to Engineers, who are the alternative Troops choice to Infantry squads, because the Engineers are BS4, 4+ armour and armed with shotguns, so you can do surprisingly well with a round of shooting backed up by an assault.

We have one guy at the FLGS who is rabidly anti FW. If he sees the models, he will start interrupting games to tell players they are cheating. That's the sum of my anti-FW experience.

I usually find the WS4 being more of a detriment than anything else

It sometimes allows an opponent just enough misses to keep the unit around an extra turn and hide in CC.

Though, as noted, it's nice on the Engineers.

 Arkaine wrote:
It's understandable when you realize we're sporting a large number of new players who don't want others to bring models from a source they are unfamiliar with or cannot afford as they haven't even completed their basic core collections yet (read about the Ultramarine guy who only owns three vehicles).

And this idea of a "basic core collection" is just absurd. People can buy FW models at any time, not just after they've got a bunch of plastic codex-only stuff. My first purchases as a new 40k player were a Tau battleforce, a Hammerhead, and a FW Barracuda. If I'd started playing in a group like yours I probably would have just given up the game and put everything on ebay. But thankfully I started playing with a friend whose entire policy on what is legal is "is it a cool model?" and I didn't encounter people like you until I was already heavily invested in the game.

If you can't respect that and insist on being right or doing what you want when it's against the wishes of the rest of the community, then you're being an overbearing despot.

Getting a lot of votes for a terrible idea doesn't make it any less terrible. And your community's wishes are wrong. You've established the kind of "our way or GTFO" clique that can absolutely kill a community and is incredibly hostile to new players. You know, the same new players that you're supposedly trying to protect.

I really stopped caring about FW when 6th ed Wave Serpents hit. And Riptides.

In 5th ed and earlier, I refused to play against FW units.

My problem with firgeworld are the strictly better options. For exame the IA8 custom stompa. Superior in every way to the bland codex one that is very overcosted.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
It's understandable when you realize we're sporting a large number of new players who don't want others to bring models from a source they are unfamiliar with or cannot afford as they haven't even completed their basic core collections yet (read about the Ultramarine guy who only owns three vehicles).

And this idea of a "basic core collection" is just absurd. People can buy FW models at any time, not just after they've got a bunch of plastic codex-only stuff. My first purchases as a new 40k player were a Tau battleforce, a Hammerhead, and a FW Barracuda. If I'd started playing in a group like yours I probably would have just given up the game and put everything on ebay. But thankfully I started playing with a friend whose entire policy on what is legal is "is it a cool model?" and I didn't encounter people like you until I was already heavily invested in the game.

If you can't respect that and insist on being right or doing what you want when it's against the wishes of the rest of the community, then you're being an overbearing despot.

Getting a lot of votes for a terrible idea doesn't make it any less terrible. And your community's wishes are wrong. You've established the kind of "our way or GTFO" clique that can absolutely kill a community and is incredibly hostile to new players. You know, the same new players that you're supposedly trying to protect.

You know your wrong when Per and I agree on something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:
My problem with firgeworld are the strictly better options. For exame the IA8 custom stompa. Superior in every way to the bland codex one that is very overcosted.

Well the Stompa in general just sucks. Its about the only Titan I know of that doesn't come with some kind of Invul save.

 Orock wrote:
My problem with firgeworld are the strictly better options. For exame the IA8 custom stompa. Superior in every way to the bland codex one that is very overcosted.

That's a typo, and when FW was still allowed to have a facebook page they addressed it there where it should be 700something points. Unfortunately for whatever reason GW withdrew from all social media presence and has seemingly abandoned FAQ's entirely.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
I personally play Renegades & Heretics, and have done so since I got back into 40k in 6th edition, when IG and CSM were Allies of Convenience.

This guy knows what fun is.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Down here we only used to ban 4 things:

- Void Shields
- D weapons
- Super-heavies
- Double FOC

With 7th, double FOC became moot and we dropped it. Last week I talked with my group and everyone relaxed towards void shields. D-weapons and Super-heavies are still disputed, but we're mostly waiting for every codex to have both inside. As we have a Dark Eldar player, looks like both will take a while to show up in our games.

There's a city 3h from here, where we go play with veteran players once a year. Those guys value models and cool stuff on the table way more than simple plain rules, so they allow everything. Only then one of our players use the IK we have around, and my future Ta'unar

FW? Allowed since first day

I think this is something that needs to just change. As in people should move away from "This is banned/allowed here." to "This format allows this, but that format doesn't."

One thing I love about Magic: the Gathering is that I can go to so many different events, ones that feature their version of the base codex only, and the ones that feature everything under the sun with as little restriction as possible. One of my favourites is actually Vintage, where I can play cards that are worth over a thousand dollars and will never be printed again because they're just that absurd. Though I also understand fully the value of Standard, which is basically the latest few sets to be released.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird but I like variety.

@Arkaine:

All the talk about banning FW for the sake of newer players smacks of an elaborate justification for something no more complicated than, "we don't like FW units and we don't want to play against them so we banned them."

Makes no difference to me, really. Play how you want. What I am curious about is the setting of your meta. How many players participate? How many voted? Where do you guys play? Just sounds weird to me, that such a thing would even take place.

 Peregrine wrote:
You know, the same new players that you're supposedly trying to protect.

Ah, so the new players that voted on the option in the first place. Right.

 Vaktathi wrote:
If you're going to claim someone is a TFG just because of the army they play, most people aren't going to buy that, and is, in itself, rather classic TFG behavior.

Which by your own definition in this statement makes Peregrine a TFG. If you go back to my quote of his in the original statement you're arguing against, he stated "From the outside it looks like you're a bunch of TFGs, and I have no more interest in fighting people just to be allowed to play with my army." He then edited his post afterwards to say "unpleasant people" so that the bandwagon verbal assaults would be against me. Typical TFG behavior, as you just said.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
@Arkaine:
All the talk about banning FW for the sake of newer players smacks of an elaborate justification for something no more complicated than, "we don't like FW units and we don't want to play against them so we banned them."
Makes no difference to me, really. Play how you want. What I am curious about is the setting of your meta. How many players participate? How many voted? Where do you guys play? Just sounds weird to me, that such a thing would even take place.

Well if you can't trust someone's statements on the internet and have to invent what you think they said without knowing anything about them, then it can "smack" of just about anything your imagination can come up with.
The meta features over 30 regulars with a few people showing up that I've never seen before once in a while and is hosted in New Jersey. How many voted? All of them. In fact, no one even raised any objections to them once the vote was made. I have yet to hear the words "I wish we allowed Forgeworld here" or anything similar for the other bans. It's a friendly community, we've visited each others' homes for private games, and we're all on a familiar basis with each other. Outsiders are treated with the warmest regard but if you go to ITC and accept their list of rules then it's sensible to do the same anywhere else you happen to go. What smacks of folly here is the amount of judgement against a group that voted this way in the first place, as though any of you would actually show up to our meta or that anyone did would be such an donkey-cave as to find the rules unbearable. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The many have spoken and may continue to do so in the future, possibly even reinstating Forgeworld if it's collectively agreed upon. Until then, rules are rules.

 Arkaine wrote:
Ah, so the new players that voted on the option in the first place. Right.

No, the new players that you might encounter in the future. You've set up your little clique with rules to protect you from ever having to face anything outside of your personal version of 40k, but anyone who doesn't share your house rules isn't welcome. And if you tell that new player "no, you can't use your army here" they're almost certainly not coming back to your group, and there's a pretty good chance that they'll just say " this", put their models on ebay, and find a different game that doesn't have absurd house rules about what is legal.

I said it before, but I'll say it again: if I'd started playing 40k in your group I would never have made it past my first game. I'd heard about how 40k was full of people who whine endlessly if you don't follow their personal rules about what you should use in your army, but I decided to give it a chance because my friend told me how awesome it was and how that wasn't a problem in his experience. If I'd showed up to your group with my shiny new Barracuda and been told "sorry, we don't allow that here" I would never have come back. And your "newbie protection" rules would have resulted in a newbie quitting the game in disgust with your behavior.

So, don't tell me that your rules protect newbies. They don't. They protect your clique from having to risk losing games.

Which by your own definition in this statement makes Peregrine a TFG. If you go back to my quote of his in the original statement you're arguing against, he stated "From the outside it looks like you're a bunch of TFGs, and I have no more interest in fighting people just to be allowed to play with my army." He then edited his post afterwards to say "unpleasant people" so that the bandwagon verbal assaults would be against me. Typical TFG behavior, as you just said.

First of all, my edit had nothing to do with this bizarre plot you seem to think you've discovered. It's very simple: calling other forum members TFG has been known to result in moderator punishments, so I reconsidered and changed my post to something in line with forum rules. Feel free to be paranoid about it though.

That said, your reply doesn't even make sense. I have no objections to your choice of rules/models/whatever for your own army. What I'm objecting to is your stubborn insistence that you get to decide what other people are allowed to use.

Outsiders are treated with the warmest regard

As long as they obey your rules about army construction and play your special version of 40k. If they dare to play a (perfectly legal, according to the printed rules of the game) army that doesn't follow your rules then you aren't nearly as welcoming.

as though any of you would actually show up to our meta

You're right, I wouldn't, because I think you're terrible people and I would have no interest in playing with you. You should take this as a hint that your behavior is inappropriate.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
Ah, so the new players that voted on the option in the first place. Right.

No, the new players that you might encounter in the future. You've set up your little clique with rules to protect you from ever having to face anything outside of your personal version of 40k, but anyone who doesn't share your house rules isn't welcome. And if you tell that new player "no, you can't use your army here" they're almost certainly not coming back to your group, and there's a pretty good chance that they'll just say " this", put their models on ebay, and find a different game that doesn't have absurd house rules about what is legal.

You may want to write to every major tournament and describe to them how their own house rules are destroying their ability to obtain new players.

 Peregrine wrote:
I said it before, but I'll say it again: if I'd started playing 40k in your group I would never have made it past my first game. I'd heard about how 40k was full of people who whine endlessly if you don't follow their personal rules about what you should use in your army, but I decided to give it a chance because my friend told me how awesome it was and how that wasn't a problem in his experience. If I'd showed up to your group with my shiny new Barracuda and been told "sorry, we don't allow that here" I would never have come back. And your "newbie protection" rules would have resulted in a newbie quitting the game in disgust with your behavior.

Remember, the venue is a majority of newbies to Warhammer. They decided upon this rule themselves. I'm perfectly okay with people like you quitting the game forever. See at our FLG, we're adults about all of this.

 Peregrine wrote:
So, don't tell me that your rules protect newbies. They don't. They protect your clique from having to risk losing games.

Scroll way back a page or two to where it was stated I field Thousand Sons often. We couldn't care less about losing games. Clearly that's something on your mind though or you wouldn't be projecting your beliefs.

 Peregrine wrote:

That said, your reply doesn't even make sense. I have no objections to your choice of rules/models/whatever for your own army. What I'm objecting to is your stubborn insistence that you get to decide what other people are allowed to use.

Your objections to the venue's Forgeworld-free army lists has been noted for the past three pages, along with your stubborn insistence that you get to decide what 32 other people are allowed to use. Because those people have already decided for themselves what they're allowed to use.

 Peregrine wrote:
As long as they obey your rules about army construction and play your special version of 40k. If they dare to play a (perfectly legal, according to the printed rules of the game) army that doesn't follow your rules then you aren't nearly as welcoming.

When you join a Magic the Gathering Standard tournament, you aren't permitted to complain that sets outside the newest two blocks are banned. If you have a problem with that, go play Vintage. Formats have rules associated with them; these are the ones our format runs.

 Peregrine wrote:
You're right, I wouldn't, because I think you're terrible people and I would have no interest in playing with you. You should take this as a hint that your behavior is inappropriate.

You may wish to take your own behavior into consideration. You're literally placing yourself as judge over the choices agreed upon by a game store's entire consumer base. Your opinion surpasses all of theirs. Yours carries more weight than that of over 30 people. Thank god you hold no power over the lives of others, what with your obvious superiority complex.

At least we finally agree on something as I would have no interest in playing with someone like you who would literally argue against every person he met insisting he's always right and his opinions are the only ones that matter.

 Arkaine wrote:
You may want to write to every major tournament and describe to them how their own house rules are destroying their ability to obtain new players.

I guess you're new here? I have strongly criticized TOs in charge of major tournaments over this exact issue.

Remember, the venue is a majority of newbies to Warhammer. They decided upon this rule themselves. I'm perfectly okay with people like you quitting the game forever. See at our FLG, we're adults about all of this.

Did you even read what I wrote? I was talking about myself when I was a new player. Now I'm invested in the game and if I encounter people like you I'll just go elsewhere. Back then, when I didn't have enough experience to know that people like you are (thankfully) not normal, I would have just given up on the game. You would have driven away newbie-me forever.

Scroll way back a page or two to where it was stated I field Thousand Sons often. We couldn't care less about losing games. Clearly that's something on your mind though or you wouldn't be projecting your beliefs.

Then why do you keep complaining about how having more options available makes an army more powerful? If you don't care if you lose then why does it matter if another player has powerful options that you don't have access to?

Your objections to the venue's Forgeworld-free army lists has been noted for the past three pages, along with your stubborn insistence that you get to decide what 32 other people are allowed to use. Because those people have already decided for themselves what they're allowed to use.

Sigh. This is not complicated. I have no objection to 32 other people deciding not to use FW units in their own lists. I have a problem with those 32 people telling the 33rd person that FW units are not allowed. I have a problem with groups treating a store as their personal clique and inventing mandatory rules that are hostile to new players.

 Peregrine wrote:
I guess you're new here? I have strongly criticized TOs in charge of major tournaments over this exact issue.

Nice to know you're trying to save 40k players from themselves by telling them how they are supposed to play the game.

 Peregrine wrote:
You would have driven away newbie-me forever.

If only... sigh... well, we have plenty of newbies that chose these rules themselves so thank god your impulsive response isn't the norm!

 Peregrine wrote:
Then why do you keep complaining about how having more options available makes an army more powerful? If you don't care if you lose then why does it matter if another player has powerful options that you don't have access to?

I haven't complained even once LOL! I own Forgeworld models myself as was explained earlier in this thread. I play CSM which sorely needs Forgeworld to be a reasonable codex. Only thing I've done from the start was answer the topic creator's question -- by explaining the reason behind the weirdness about Forgeworld, at least at my locale.

 Peregrine wrote:
Sigh. This is not complicated. I have no objection to 32 other people deciding not to use FW units in their own lists. I have a problem with those 32 people telling the 33rd person that FW units are not allowed. I have a problem with groups treating a store as their personal clique and inventing mandatory rules that are hostile to new players.

I think you'd do better to hold an objection against a 33rd person showing up and demanding everyone change the rules they are comfortable with for their benefit.


There are many games that have different formats and allow various mixes of acceptable resources. Card games are just the most popular example to showcase. You're against having different formats or houserules and want everyone to adhere to a single uniform ruleset that is unanimously accepted and undisputed. That'd be great! ... Write us when GW finally gets around to actually writing one. Till then, houserules are required for the game to even function without arguments unless you judge every situation using the 4+ method and have the rules themselves as random as the dice.

I have to say Arkaine, I have to agree with peregrine, but don't dismiss what I have to say immediately because of it. FW is not the pay to win it once was, the citadel range has caught up in terms of firepower. It's a great way to get better at the game, to challenge yourself against unknown units and find new uses for your existing units. Plus, they make some beautiful models. Saying no titans I understand in a casual gaming environment, but I don't understand refusing a player a game because of their choice of army or units. Like per said, the 33rd player might walk. The 16th and 23rd player might quit the hobby. You run the risk of trying to lock the hobby in a bubble that you are all comfortable with, which might work for you now, but it will cause stagnation in the long run, and might well see the group shrink rather than grow.

 JamesY wrote:
The 33rd player might walk. The 16th and 23rd player might quit the hobby.

I'm still wondering why people are addressing me like I'm the lynchpin holding this entire format together. I truly have no ability to decide the rules here or they'd be a little different than they are currently. The rules as always are done by majority vote. You're worried about losing some fictional 33rd person while our community is more concerned about losing players that actually exist. All of the bans exist to prevent that from happening. It's also important to restate that power levels have little to do with it and that the decisions were primarily centered around COST. If someone starts to feel like things are stagnating, the topic is reintroduced and possibly overturned. Heck, we had a "No Flyers" rule a while back and that was overturned. Risks exist within the hobby regardless of what you choose to do and you are only fooling yourself into thinking that doing nothing absolves yourself of personal responsibility when someone quits for any number of reasons. We could have sat around and done nothing about all of these points of contention. A more proactive stance was selected instead. That's really all there is to it. Only time will tell whether it's the right decision or not, yet judging from the dwindling numbers of the nearby competitor and the surge of popularity at my regular location... people seem to think we're doing it better.

Thanks for the feedback anyhow!

People are addressing the group through you as you are representing them in the discussion, I don't think anyone is targeting you as an individual, rather as a spokesman. If it's working for you all then fair enough. Out of interest, how rigid is the group? Say for example a new guy turns up and he's got a dkok army, and that's his only army. Would you guys welcome him in and make an exception, or would he have to look elsewhere?

 Arkaine wrote:
I'm still wondering why people are addressing me like I'm the lynchpin holding this entire format together.

Because you keep defending it. Don't want to be addressed as a representative of the group? Stop defending it and admit that it's bad behavior.

-Forge World is part of 40k.-
Simple as that. The 7E core set not only shows off FW models in pictures throughout the books, but has rules for them as part of the basic rule set. (Rules for Gargantuan creatures, with all those GW plastic sets for them...)

Awesome the unbalanced stuff from w40k and the stuff that makes some factions much better then other is the argument for accepting FW

-Cost of Entry?-
Between the player who had a full FW army or the guy with the second hand marines with their styrofoam cup drop pods. Its a game. Enjoy it how ever you can and want to. Don't discriminate against those who have more or less money.

The problem is that some armies play without FW and do great, while other can't and in the case of something like my army the only way to play artilery carriges and ton of ally.

-Balance-
40k is not a perfectly balanced game even at its core. Fair enough.

It actualy buffs the already top tier army higher. Eldar are bad enough, they don't need the corsair stuff to get even better.

-Don't know the rules / availability-
In the age of the internet. The information is out there. Plus, I highly doubt any gamer out there has all current codexes memorized or readily available. So, ask to see rules, learn from each other. Playing against the unknown is a great learning experience. You don't always have to win, and some times the struggles can be more fun.

Show what? Even if he does have a IA rule book, which I doubt he has with most FW stuff being recasts, how do I know if it is the proper one. I can check if a codex is new or old just by looking at the cover. I can't do that with a FW book.

-Buts its different and scares me!-
GW likes selling new kits and books. Things will change and be updated. If you want a perfectly static rule set look elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with scaring people, but everything with making the game less fun for people who can't or don't want to buy FW. Have you ever see people say they won't play against the new codex of any army? No, even if they are like eldar people still play against them and their new kits for OP models.

I played a tournament two weeks back. ITC rule set. I had 3 knights, one of them a FW knight. Many were quick to call me TFG. I didn't even place in the top 10 out of 22 players. Played a game using a Warhound vs Dark Angels a week ago. I lost by turn 5 with no chance of victory. FW is not a scary instant win button by any stretch of the imagination.

Just because your a bad player it doesnt automaticly make FW ok.

 JamesY wrote:
People are addressing the group through you as you are representing them in the discussion, I don't think anyone is targeting you as an individual, rather as a spokesman. If it's working for you all then fair enough. Out of interest, how rigid is the group? Say for example a new guy turns up and he's got a dkok army, and that's his only army. Would you guys welcome him in and make an exception, or would he have to look elsewhere?

I believe I addressed that well enough earlier so I'll use the exact quote to keep from rephrasing things. VVV

 Arkaine wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Hypothetical scenario for you;
What would your playerbase really do: Play a game or two and let him run it? Insist he remove the tank? Shun him? Denounce him and berate him for being a WAAC/powergamer/TFG?
Assume you let him run it and he starts to include it in more games, would that cause problems considering that although it's pretty nifty tank its in no way overpowered?

We would let him know that FW wasn't allowed for the events. If he wanted to use in casual games with the permission of his opponent, he's more than welcome to as whether or not the tank is OP never comes into question. It's just that permitting the use of the tank would mean permitting the use of everything from FW as no one wants to be burdened with arbitrarily deciding what FW items are allowable and which are banned. I mean what kind of arbitrary guidelines would be used? Personal gut feeling? Nay, the players made the right call. Ban it all and let them sort it out on their own in private games.

 Peregrine wrote:
Because you keep defending it. Don't want to be addressed as a representative of the group? Stop defending it and admit that it's bad behavior.

Oh there's bad behavior going on alright, but it's not on my part or the group's.

 Tinkrr wrote:

I think this is something that needs to just change. As in people should move away from "This is banned/allowed here." to "This format allows this, but that format doesn't."

One thing I love about Magic: the Gathering is that I can go to so many different events, ones that feature their version of the base codex only, and the ones that feature everything under the sun with as little restriction as possible. One of my favourites is actually Vintage, where I can play cards that are worth over a thousand dollars and will never be printed again because they're just that absurd. Though I also understand fully the value of Standard, which is basically the latest few sets to be released.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird but I like variety.

I agree with you, but not everyone in my group does.

Ah, and we're holding off on using Eldar as either main army (noone played that anyway) or allies, until the last 4 codexes get updated (both chaos, IG, tyranids)

You can tell if an IA is the correct one by looking at the cover, at the top, if it got an update, it will say 'SECOND EDITION' right at there.


You ALSO realise that that guy was PROBABLY playing Ravenwing shenanigans so that's why he lost.

If you're such an awesome player, I'd like you to try to beat my Space Marines, Chapter or Legion, as a 40k player since early 4th. It's also possible that the DA player focussed his fire on Warhound, ever consider that?

Don't have the money to buy FW?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xforge+world.TRS0&_nkw=forge+world&_sacat=0

There.

Forge World IS Games Workshop. Saying that their stuff is unbalanced is like saying that a schizophrenic mental patient has more balance than a theoretical physicist; False and stupid.

Makumba wrote:

-Balance-
40k is not a perfectly balanced game even at its core. Fair enough.

It actualy buffs the already top tier army higher. Eldar are bad enough, they don't need the corsair stuff to get even better.

.. why do you hate Corsairs so much? Craftworld Eldar and Corsairs are different factions. Do the existence of Dark Eldar and Harlequins also unfairly buff CW Eldar? Does the existence of Admech and Vanilla Space Marines unfairly buff Imperial Guard/AM?

Why do you hate Corsairs so much? Indeed, why do you seem to have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to FW in general?

Did you lose to a FW army one time? Just because your a bad player it doesn't automatically make FW OP?