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Can anyone with the Tidewall Rampart Shieldwall dataslate confirm or deny if the wall can be taken by other armies? I know no one but Tau can activate the gun or drones, but can other armies take the Shieldwall and get the bounce-back and movement?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Is the Farsight Bomb still viable?

Viable yes, but Farsight is no longer required.

I don't know about the one in the boxset, but the rules for the Fortification in Kauyon are located in the Tau Empire chapter which states:

The following section contains new Tau Empire Army List Entries, Formations, wargear and Tactical Objectives – and the fearsome Hunter Contingent Detachment. It also includes full rules for several new Tau Empire Fortifications.

and

As well as containing the brand new Fortification rules, this chapter of the book is designed to be used in conjunction with Codex: Tau Empire(2012) to provide players with all of the new rules found in Codex: Tau Empire(2015). The following rules in Codex: Tau Empire(2012) have also been updated to reflect changes introduced by the new codex.

The Fortification pages themselves don't say they are Tau only, but they also don't say that anyone can take them... However since it states they are 'Tau Empire Fortification', it's safe to say that they are intended to be Tau-only.

Also they have the Identification Protocols n the Gunrig so i mean... Plus it stops working if an enemy gets on it. Plus it specifies in the rules that it ffects Tau Empire Faction and so on.
so yeah intent is no problem on this one. Lol.

Razerous wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:

because your entire army worth of reserves arrives-even on T1. yes, entire army, not the formation itself.

Okay, so that's totally cool, especially with the Retaliation Cadre. Now THAT's a beta-strike

Depending on how much is still on the table, unless I've missed a way you can insta-gib one of your own units (deepstrike mishap?), surely an opponent could just not kill one of your Infiltration Cadre?

Skyfire Markerlights.. Do I still want skyrays.. or am I tempted by Big D Missles instead?!

The thing is, you go second. Your opponent either takes the first blood bait and kills one of your units (the infiltration cadre being literally the ONLY things on the table) and you get all your reserves T1.

Otherwise, he doesn't get first blood, and you've got a few units given basically no resistance. Pathfinders lighting things up and throwing missiles. Piranhas with FB can start ALL THE WAY FORWARD, then be in striking distance of something tasty. Stealth suits being ignored for a turn can do some nasty things, since you can infiltrate them at exactly 12" from what you want to kill.

The idea is that you give your opponent the hard choice: either kill these things, get first blood, and make it rain; or let some not insignificant shooting hurt them first turn, only to delay most of your suits for only 1 turn.

Something I've been mulling over is where to actually put buffmander. I plan on running the Taucurion and, regardless of how he works, I'm trying to think where he would be best served. My general idea is two maxed out stealth cadres (min stealth suits though with a target lock and fusion) and a squad of broadsides. I was thinking that he should probably go with the broadsides, but either they need to be a bit closer than I would prefer (missilesides) or they would fulfill a niche that I already have in spades (ranged AT). Conversely, I could go complete HAM and give them plasma and run them right up the board/deep strike them

He is wasted on missilesides. They already have ignores cover and TL.

Buffmander is excellent with a Drone Swarm.

I did forget that their HYMP were already TL. But are drones really durable enough? It seems like a waste to put him in stealth squads and I don't plan on running a large enough blob of crisis suits to feel like he's safe there either. How do you keep buffmander alive?

Well... hoping he'll live forever isnt going to happen. But examine the facts:

Pathfinder: 5+ armor. Drones: 4+
Pathdfinders: Tough 3. Drones: Tough 4
Pathfinders: Infantry. Drones: Jetpacks and therefore:
Pathfinders: Move, Drones: Jump-shoot-Jump.

There really is no comparison. Your Marker Drone squad is very worth the change to their survivablity. It lso means mobile markerlights that can retreat as needed.

as for the commander: He himself will have no weapon, so I don't need him exposed while shooting. Also, he can jump back. Also he can tank for the Drones with irridium.

Don't forget, with a drone controller the drones also have significantly better BS than Pathfinders when running with a Buffmander.

More so, you can get Target Lock on your suits rather cheaply, so you can have your Marker Drones fire at one target, while your Suits go for a completely different one, and your Buffmander helps both D:


Tau can really gain a ton of Markerlights in very hidden ways, that don't force Pathfinder groups. Everything from Drones, Skyrays, Fireblades, FW leader upgrades, Tetras, and so forth. If anything, it might just be reasonable to take Pathfinders with special weapons at this point.

Yup. So. Buffmander for the win.

 Jancoran wrote:
Yup. So. Buffmander for the win.

I'm really happy they didn't take the Buffmander out, I think it makes so much sense that the Commander is the one who helps everyone else, as opposed to just being a super trooper like in so many other armies. Then again, I played support main in League of Legends back when I played that game, so you know, I might be biased.

Though yea, I wish the Coldstar was better, as more choices aren't bad.

MilkmanAl wrote:

neither pathfinders nor piranhas are sub-par.

I've always wanted Piranhas to be useful. Roadblocks are nice sometimes, but I'd rather just obliterate whatever I'm trying to block. Maybe they're more useful now that they can get some bonuses when they fire. Pathfinders, on the other hand, are pretty clearly the worst markerlight solution, in my opinion. Marker Drones can easily have BS5, and Tetras are more mobile, more durable, and more reliable. Skyrays are great all-around units.

Tetras are not available in the hunter Continent though. and skyray are limited as well.
Drones, due to commander costs-as less point effiecent than pathfinders. (and don't get the bonuses of this formation, of free seeker strike hits, and any focus on your markers causes entire army to appear)

 Tinkrr wrote:
Don't forget, with a drone controller the drones also have significantly better BS than Pathfinders when running with a Buffmander.

More so, you can get Target Lock on your suits rather cheaply, so you can have your Marker Drones fire at one target, while your Suits go for a completely different one, and your Buffmander helps both D:


Tau can really gain a ton of Markerlights in very hidden ways, that don't force Pathfinder groups. Everything from Drones, Skyrays, Fireblades, FW leader upgrades, Tetras, and so forth. If anything, it might just be reasonable to take Pathfinders with special weapons at this point.

Buffmander with drones is dead with the new codex. You will not be able to use those marker lights efficiently because you need to already have the marker lights on a target before the buffmanders unit fires since they are not networked. This way you can get C&CN, PEN, MSSS to spread to your army via combined fire rules.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Don't forget, with a drone controller the drones also have significantly better BS than Pathfinders when running with a Buffmander.

More so, you can get Target Lock on your suits rather cheaply, so you can have your Marker Drones fire at one target, while your Suits go for a completely different one, and your Buffmander helps both D:


Tau can really gain a ton of Markerlights in very hidden ways, that don't force Pathfinder groups. Everything from Drones, Skyrays, Fireblades, FW leader upgrades, Tetras, and so forth. If anything, it might just be reasonable to take Pathfinders with special weapons at this point.

Buffmander with drones is dead with the new codex. You will not be able to use those marker lights efficiently because you need to already have the marker lights on a target before the buffmanders unit fires since they are not networked. This way you can get C&CN, PEN, MSSS to spread to your army via combined fire rules.

They weren't networked in the 6ed codex either.

The idea wasn't that you had the drones buff your Buffmander unit, but rather that you gave the unit Target Lock, so they could shoot at Squad A and then the drones would shoot at Squad B with their Marker Lights for another squad to shoot them. I mean it's not like the Buffmanders squad really needed the Markers as with the systems he provided they already ignored cover and were twin-linked, so you know the Markers would be redundant.

Buffmander with drones is dead with the new codex. You will not be able to use those marker lights efficiently because you need to already have the marker lights on a target before the buffmanders unit fires since they are not networked. This way you can get C&CN, PEN, MSSS to spread to your army via combined fire rules.

This problem is actually a bit of a complex one once you start trying to shoehorn all of your units into an efficient list. At this very early stage, a buff suit of some kind seems more or less mandatory in games of, like, 1000+ points, to throw out a rather arbitrary number. As you said, sticking a buffmander with Marker Drones is sub optimal because you're forced to either waste a bunch of marker lights or not get your buffmander buffs on whatever wants to use the markers. That's a big issue for me since I've always leaned heavily towards a Mark'o and drones as my marker light source. Pathfinders I find quite underwhelming, mostly due to how fragile they are, and Skyrays and Tetras are pretty tough to come by if you're using the Hunter Contingent. If you want to avoid using Pathfinders (and I do), the best options I can come up with are these:

1) Have 2 commanders: a Mark'o and a buffmander. In a Hunter Contingent, this option costs you a Crisis Bodyguard tax since you'll have to take a Command formation to get the second Commander. I don't see this one as a particularly good use of points.

2) Use a Crisis Shas'vre as your buff suit. You lose a lot of flexibility and durability with this option since your buff source won't be an independent character. As I interpret the rules, the buff suit will become worthless as soon as the rest of the suits in the unit die since it won't actually be able to target anything, itself.

3) Have an allied CAD for SKyrays and/or Tetras. This one is sounding pretty decent to me, but I wish it wasn't so expensive (at least Ethereal plus 90 pts of FW just to get your marker source).

4) Bite the bullet and use Pathfinders. I haven't done the math yet, but it's sounding like the list acrobatics necessary to get markers from other places might not be worth it, even despite how flimsy and static these guys are. Maybe take 3 minimum units of them to get a bonus BS against whatever you're targeting so they're at least more reliable? Drones themselves are 80 pts for 5 ML hits, while you'd either spend 110 on 10 pathfinders for the same or get 8 hits for 132 pts spread across the 3 units. Meh.

5) Ignore ML altogether and rely on the buffmander and the new army-wide bonuses for killy goodness. I plan on running an OSC most of the time, so a good 650 pts of my army will ignore cover and have a bonus BS anyway. Maybe you can get away without ML at all? If you're taking a Stormsurge, though, that's probably a poor strategy.

It's definitely not a bad idea to have buffmander in a unit of drones. It's especially nice given that they have relentless, and if you take them in the same unit as buffmander, they can move + run + shoot + jump in the assault phase. No you won't be able to mark the unit that buffmander shoots at. But realistically, those units will get +1 BS, TL, ignores cover. So even if you're shooting with no other benefits, you hit 89% of the time. If you could markerlight and get up to BS 5, that would increase to 97% hit rate. But really you only need 1 markerlight. Just have something else shoot at the unit first. Even a squad of 4 pathfinders (or like, literally, any other source of markerlights) will get the job done. And that's if it even matters.

Then with buffmander and the drones, you do definitely need to give his friends (probably crisis suits) a target lock so that they can fire elsewhere, while the drones light up a different target. And with drone controller, they'll be BS 6 and re-rolling misses (how does twin-linked BS 6 work anyhow?)

So....has anybody tried to max out the formation yet? lol...
I find it funny they gave us the ability to take infinite Cores when even 1 Core is effin huge on its own, nevermind the 1-10 auxiliaries it takes too.

Also, why would you put buffmander in a drone squad? Gun drones are twinlinked already and become BS5 with any commander via Drone Controller. Giving them ignores cover isnt that big of a boon since its just S5 AP5 weapons.
Keep him in a crisis missilepod squad. Sits at a distance, makes the crisis suits deadly as gak, and buffs the ML drones to BS5 with rerolls.
Keep him out of broadsides. Like, seriously, why the heck would you put him in there? Crisis suits can re-position to actually use the ignore cover and they arent TL by default so they benefit from the reroll to hit. Same gun so they want the same targets, but broadsides cannot re-position for crap if something is out of range or blocking line of sight and if thats not a problem they dont really need the bonuses anyway.

The best way is to go Mark'O and Buffmander as separate models. If you mix them up, Hunter Contingent becomes a lot weaker.
One of them can come from a CAD or from either Command or Retaliation formations, while the other cans tart on table.

maceria wrote:
He is wasted on missilesides. They already have ignores cover and TL.

Missilesides don't ignore cover.

In the relentless Broadside unit, a Commander making the missile drones BS5 could be pretty cool.

Gun drones are twinlinked already and become BS5 with any commander via Drone Controller.

This begs the question, are gun and missile drones now totally awesome? Does the DC count for other units of drones when they're all firing together? It seems like that may be stretching the combined fire rules a bit, but it's worth a thought. Widespread BS5 on cheap units is something you could build an army around pretty easily.

The thing is, you go second. Your opponent either takes the first blood bait and kills one of your units (the infiltration cadre being literally the ONLY things on the table) and you get all your reserves T1.

Otherwise, he doesn't get first blood, and you've got a few units given basically no resistance. Pathfinders lighting things up and throwing missiles. Piranhas with FB can start ALL THE WAY FORWARD, then be in striking distance of something tasty. Stealth suits being ignored for a turn can do some nasty things, since you can infiltrate them at exactly 12" from what you want to kill.

The idea is that you give your opponent the hard choice: either kill these things, get first blood, and make it rain; or let some not insignificant shooting hurt them first turn, only to delay most of your suits for only 1 turn.

I've been giving the Infiltration Cadre a lot of thought over the past day. I'm willing to try it out, but it really seems like it's tough to make the formation worthwhile. The Stealth suits kind of ruin everything. You're looking at ~400 pts of models I probably wouldn't take under most circumstances. The Hunter Cadre is going to be another 600 pts, if you go easy, so you've got maybe 800 to spend on the Retaliation Cadre. That's doable, I suppose. If you're going heavy reserves, though, wouldn't it be a lot easier and cheaper to just use a comms relay in some cheap fortification? Sure, it's not a guarantee to get your stuff in, but 8/9 chance per unit is pretty reliable.

Its not stretching the rule at all. They count as one unit, dronecontroller affects all drones in the bearer's unit.
However it doesnt affect missiledrones. It never has. Gun, sniper and marker drones only.

Yep it definitely works. Would be kind of hilarious to see someone with a million drones do that (maybe have 2 buffmanders to spread the love around). Forget ghostkeels! I have DRONES

Someone please post a video batrep of this at their earliest convenience

However it doesnt affect missiledrones. It never has. Gun, sniper and marker drones only.

Oh yeah. Duh.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Don't forget, with a drone controller the drones also have significantly better BS than Pathfinders when running with a Buffmander.

More so, you can get Target Lock on your suits rather cheaply, so you can have your Marker Drones fire at one target, while your Suits go for a completely different one, and your Buffmander helps both D:


Tau can really gain a ton of Markerlights in very hidden ways, that don't force Pathfinder groups. Everything from Drones, Skyrays, Fireblades, FW leader upgrades, Tetras, and so forth. If anything, it might just be reasonable to take Pathfinders with special weapons at this point.

Buffmander with drones is dead with the new codex. You will not be able to use those marker lights efficiently because you need to already have the marker lights on a target before the buffmanders unit fires since they are not networked. This way you can get C&CN, PEN, MSSS to spread to your army via combined fire rules.

I think you're missing it. You're so focused on that but there are several reasons why "spreading" it in't necessarily the only use.

First, if I combine say three units to fire on one target, the overkill IS overkill. So early in the game, this will be pretty cool but later in the game it will be wasteful. Also some of the the weapons on the StormSurge can be made into D weapons ith Markerlights.

Markerlights aren't something you don't need anymore. Blasts dont scatter when theres enough markerlights.

I get that Markerlights won't be AS critical depending on how you build the force but in no world i live in do i foresee anyone not needing yet more. =)

That really depends on the rule set that you use. The ITC for example only counts the sharing of Markerlights when firing multiple units as one, so things like Drone Controllers and such won't benefit Drones out of the holders direct unit.

Also, what are all of you guys using for your auxiliaries in your Hunter Formation? There seem to be only three or so realistic choices, none of which really offer you access to Skyrays which really bothers me.

I dont use Skyrays at all really.

 Vector Strike wrote:
The best way is to go Mark'O and Buffmander as separate models. If you mix them up, Hunter Contingent becomes a lot weaker.
One of them can come from a CAD or from either Command or Retaliation formations, while the other cans tart on table.

maceria wrote:
He is wasted on missilesides. They already have ignores cover and TL.

Missilesides don't ignore cover.

The SMS does. All of your shots are TL, half ignore cover. I've never thought sticking your buff'O in to make the other half of your shots TL was particularly useful. ML for ignore cover is.

EDIT: typos.

Well it takes all kinds. I think that Generals will be pleased with the Buffmander now as they were before.