Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 McNinja wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So am I the only one that thinks a Relation Cadre can be very powerful in a Hunter Contingent? The potential of deep striking Rail Sides with Relentless can be rather powerful, along with the ability to have some lone Melta-Suits or whatever dropping in.

It also does settle some of the issues with wanting a Mark'o and Buffmander in the same list.

I like it - I like it even more if you have a few homing beacons in your list.

Most people would think that OSC and Ret. Force would work well together, but they actually do not, and it's all because of the Ghostkeels. If you want the keels and sealthsuits to have their formation rule, they need to be close to each other, and they can't be close to each other if the stealthsuits are infiltrating, which would be the case since you want the homing beacons in specific areas so you can be there and not die to scatter turn 2.

Unless you have confidence that the formation can all get to where you need them to be by the end of your turn 1.

I honestly don't like the OSC as a whole. I get their ability is awesome, but the fact still stands that Stealth Suits are super confused and could really use some kind of tweak, either making them troop choices, giving them the ability to take special weapons on all models, or simply upgrading their burst cannons to not be burst cannons, because after all they don't look like the burst cannons on the vehicles, Crisis Suits, or Riptide. It just looks different enough to be justifiable as its own thing...

I just think that the Ret. Cad, has a lot of potential, and can accommodate a couple of Suicide Suits in the required three suit slots, while the last one can go with a Buffmander as whatever. The ability to deep strike so well on turn two is just devastating, and relentless Rail Sides are a lot more desirable when you have access to Ghostkeels with Rakes, Missile Pod Turrets in all your squads, and much more in your main Hunter Cad list. It just seems right to then use the Ret Cad as a massive special weapons unit, with the main body of the Hunter Cad being all the missiles and markers.

Well, the OSR stealth suits can still infiltrate because its quite rare to infiltrate further than ~8" from your deployment zone anyway. First turn's movement and jump move prioritizes being within 6", moving forward second.

The Homing Beacon doesnt have to get the deepstrikers in the opposite corner of the board, just put them in the perfect spot to unload the dakka without weathering the attacks to get there.

Which is one reason i wish we could simply say "Nah, not coming in yet" to our reserves without a dice roll. If you could squeeze a stealthsuit with homing beacons behind enemy lines, that would be amazing. Getting that by turn 2 is pretty unlikely though.

And don't forget that the OSC Wall of Mirrors affects the Ghostkeels irregardless of their proximity to the Stealth Suits, so the Ghostkeel will always ignore cover, have +1 bs, and always hit the rear of vehicles.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So am I the only one that thinks a Relation Cadre can be very powerful in a Hunter Contingent? The potential of deep striking Rail Sides with Relentless can be rather powerful, along with the ability to have some lone Melta-Suits or whatever dropping in.

It also does settle some of the issues with wanting a Mark'o and Buffmander in the same list.

Yep. I've been using my railsides with plasma as elites hunters for a while. It's worked out quite nicely. And now they can deepstrike. with extra BS. And be relentless.

Personally, I don't really like the OSC. I find the infiltration cadre a much better fit for the Ke$ha formation.

If you were playing a larger game or took minimum sized units, you could get 3 or more commanders in a Hunter Contingent list. Contingent HQ, Cadre, and Retaliation Cadre, but in <2000 point games the rest of your lists would be sparse.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
irregardless

Not a word.

It's cool that the Wall of Mirrors is always active on the 'keels, though.

I haven't seen much talk of the Infiltration Cadre. Yes it has the Stealth suit tax but it seems like a very powerful tool in conjunction with the retaliation cadre. Note that I run a CAD instead of the hunter contingent and usually play 2-2.5k points. Having the retaliation force sitting in reserve seems pretty good to me since everyone shoots pathfinders first thing anyway. Its a one trick pony but people are kind of damned if they do or damned if they don't shoot them especially if they have first turn.

I personally do not like the idea of Broadsides or Riptides DSing in. I would prefer they be on the ground shooting from the get go, preferably with the broadsides in cover. So have your 7 pathfinders a squad, two minimum suits of stealth teams(I don't remember if they get homing beacons but if they do that's a nice bonus for this), and the random fusion piranha(no idea why this guy is part of this formation), I also start with the Riptide and broadsides on the board. Everything else is in reserve for deepstrike. This makes 8 potential targets on turn one for them to shoot at, spread them out and I doubt most opponents can kill them all.

When they concentrate fire to get rid of pathfinder teams, preferably if they went first, or if you severely threaten with a piranha(I put seekers on mine since there are so many marker lights first round). In theory you will lose something, and yes that gives them first blood, then everything else comes in on your first turn and you over whelm them with heavy firepower.

Correct me if I am wrong(my book is at home) but everything in the Retaliation cadre has BS4 the turn it DSs in and the Broadsides always have relentless right?

This is bare minimum since I use a lot of FW models as well. Having a Y'Vahra DS in on turn one is just mean.

part of the problem with the new formations is they make forgeworld difficult to bring.
Infiltration Cadre only affects the formation and the giant formation, its not literally all reserves. So your Y'Vahra wouldnt be affected.

Not that the Y'vahra needs support anyway. That thing is nuts.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
part of the problem with the new formations is they make forgeworld difficult to bring.
Infiltration Cadre only affects the formation and the giant formation, its not literally all reserves. So your Y'Vahra wouldnt be affected.

Not that the Y'vahra needs support anyway. That thing is nuts.

No, it affect ALL UNITS IN RESERVE. Even allies. Infiltration Cadre is really that good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Col. Dash wrote:
I haven't seen much talk of the Infiltration Cadre. Yes it has the Stealth suit tax but it seems like a very powerful tool in conjunction with the retaliation cadre. Note that I run a CAD instead of the hunter contingent and usually play 2-2.5k points. Having the retaliation force sitting in reserve seems pretty good to me since everyone shoots pathfinders first thing anyway. Its a one trick pony but people are kind of damned if they do or damned if they don't shoot them especially if they have first turn.

I personally do not like the idea of Broadsides or Riptides DSing in. I would prefer they be on the ground shooting from the get go, preferably with the broadsides in cover. So have your 7 pathfinders a squad, two minimum suits of stealth teams(I don't remember if they get homing beacons but if they do that's a nice bonus for this), and the random fusion piranha(no idea why this guy is part of this formation), I also start with the Riptide and broadsides on the board. Everything else is in reserve for deepstrike. This makes 8 potential targets on turn one for them to shoot at, spread them out and I doubt most opponents can kill them all.

When they concentrate fire to get rid of pathfinder teams, preferably if they went first, or if you severely threaten with a piranha(I put seekers on mine since there are so many marker lights first round). In theory you will lose something, and yes that gives them first blood, then everything else comes in on your first turn and you over whelm them with heavy firepower.

Correct me if I am wrong(my book is at home) but everything in the Retaliation cadre has BS4 the turn it DSs in and the Broadsides always have relentless right?

This is bare minimum since I use a lot of FW models as well. Having a Y'Vahra DS in on turn one is just mean.

Infiltration Cadre isn't the same from the Burning Dawn book. Infiltratio Cadre allows you to field 3 UNITS of Pathfinders, 2 UNITS of Stealth Suits and an entire UNIT of Piranhas.
Burning Dawn formation only works well in small games.

Yes, Broadsides from Retaliation Cadre always have Relentless. The BS4 bonus is only if the entire formation DS turn 2, however.

Yeah, I thought the line about any unit in reserve may deepstrike in your next turn part was pretty specific. Its probably the most synergistic formation in the game, while the others are fairly stand alone in what they do and bring to the table. By itself its kind of meh without a good force to take advantage of it. Maybe I will bring a monat Broadside just to fill the slot and DS with it and have a dedicated CAD broadside unit on the board for actual fire support.

Tau tactics? let me see...sit back at your table edge and shoot your opponent off the table.

most boring faction in the game. no movement phase, no psychic phase, the shooting phase is 95% of your turn and of course no assault phase.

Except thats not how they fight.

 Jancoran wrote:
Except thats not how they fight.

This entire codex screams turtle.

It encourages you to fight from a distance and shoot your opponent. even if they assault you, now you have a 12" supporting fire. why even bother putting terrain on the table? to benefit Tau? might as well just play on a flat board. It doesn't matter if they have B3 base because for very little you'll be getting units that hit on 3s and 2s.

Space marines got squadroned dreadnoughts? of course the best solution is to give riptides that as well.

40k is going to a bad place in 7th edition. sucks.

don't get me started on STR D missiles and a super heavy that will beat anythings face at only 600 points.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
Tau tactics? let me see...sit back at your table edge and shoot your opponent off the table.

most boring faction in the game. no movement phase, no psychic phase, the shooting phase is 95% of your turn and of course no assault phase.

Isn't that Tank/Artillery AM?

Most Tau weapons don't have enough range to engage from table edge (I've learned long ago never to place units on your table edge after I scared an entire Ork Loota squad into first blood) save for a few weapons. Tau optimal range is around 36, 30, and 15 inches with a few outliers, using the ability to decimate units or effective hit and run, (move shoot, move run shoot, jump shoot jump). If you can sit back at your table edge and win, either you're beating up on new players or you're being given the win.

No, the most boring race in the game is IG - THEY sit there behind their lines and fire at table range because everybody is too dumb to actually utilize their non-tankline tactics.

Tau are actually pretty bad at the long range game, were great at the mid-range. The average 2k list will have ~3 long range guns, with the rest being medium (no more than 36"). And i betcha 2 if not all 3 of those will also have Gets Hot slapped on.

I move forward with my Tau. I rarely engage, but i dont sit back at maximum range. I try to keep Rapid Fire range as long as possible, and i usually start getting Rapid Fire by turn 2 and keep it till turn 4 before i get charged.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
most tournaments play Dawn of war table deployment. Tau are boring.

This guy pretty much says it all.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
Tau tactics? let me see...sit back at your table edge and shoot your opponent off the table.

most boring faction in the game. no movement phase, no psychic phase, the shooting phase is 95% of your turn and of course no assault phase.

Not really relevant/ helpful to the discussion now is it?

 Nilok wrote:

Most Tau weapons don't have enough range to engage from table edge (I've learned long ago never to place units on your table edge after I scared an entire Ork Loota squad into first blood) save for a few weapons. Tau optimal range is around 36, 30, and 15 inches with a few outliers, using the ability to decimate units or effective hit and run, (move shoot, move run shoot, jump shoot jump). If you can sit back at your table edge and win, either you're beating up on new players or you're being given the win.

Exactly you've got to get close enough to fire/ score.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Except thats not how they fight.

This entire codex screams turtle.

It encourages you to fight from a distance and shoot your opponent. even if they assault you, now you have a 12" supporting fire. why even bother putting terrain on the table? to benefit Tau? might as well just play on a flat board. It doesn't matter if they have B3 base because for very little you'll be getting units that hit on 3s and 2s.

Space marines got squadroned dreadnoughts? of course the best solution is to give riptides that as well.

40k is going to a bad place in 7th edition. sucks.

don't get me started on STR D missiles and a super heavy that will beat anythings face at only 600 points.

I disagree.

It does not COMPETE in the melee phase. it does not COMPETE in the Psyker phase, yet you're dismayed that it does well in the shooting phase? How unfair does it NEED to be before you think its fair? Lol. It's not like they are paragons of fortitude! Their Riptides are ther only thing that IS and it can't fight either.

Look. The answer to Tau hasn't changed SINCE they were invented. Its so simple it hurts to even have to say it. But fine. I'll say it.

You get in the fastest thing you have and you go as fast as you can towards them. You do not try to outshoot them. You run and just bring bodies. Then you use the throw away remnants they've shot up to absorb overwatch and then you kill their faces off if they are stupid enough to gunline you.

That's it.

And if you want to get super fancy, get a comms relay, get a bunch of cheap deep strikers and outflankers and saturate them all at once, giving them just one turn, and then butcher them.

Meanwhile, Tau Generals like me have embraced a far more mobile form of Tau warfare. Because we dont want this to happen to us. And it will happen to us if we face a general who knows better than to try and get into a shooting war. Even my enemies WORST troops can probably knock my block off!

7E absolutely gives you every reason to embrace speed as a weapon. It gave you Maelstrom, it's given you objective intensive tournament formats, it's given every army an expanding list of units and the ones you need to pinpoint for yourself are those that get you there fast.

Its no accident that White Scars do well. Its no accident that Scatterbikes are feared. Its no accident that I play a Dark eldar list whose only job in life is movement and melee. Its no accident that the best performing Blood Angels lists have flyers and its no accident that the Tau Empire only really does cool things in one phase of the entire game. but it DOES do cool things in that phase, and that's the way it has always been. Like always. And the answer has literally never changed.

Me playing against Tau.

Me. I move my troops, tactically position them. If I have psykers, I utilize their abilities. I shoot at those targets in range. If I can assault, I will Charge and continue the game in the CC phase where my opponent also has a turn within my turn.

tau player. move very little, jump pack units into range.
Marker lights, more marker lights, more marker lights, shoot, shoot, shoot, and reroll, and shoot, and reroll, and shoot, and reroll, and wound, and reroll, and wound, and reroll and wound and reroll.

assault phase, jump pack units back into starting position or behind cover.

essentially the entire Tau turn is shooting, like 95%. As an Amateur Battle Report producer, its the most boring games to watch and very boring to play against.

at this point, during the Tau shooting phase, I just let my opponent roll my saves too, I can do dishes, clean the grout in my tiles, do my taxes or get started on my 30k hobbying.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
most tournaments play Dawn of war table deployment. Tau are boring.

This guy pretty much says it all.

Nice, jazz hands.

The codex has most of the rules from the old one, and actually adds more short range weapons and options save for the Pulse Driver Cannon.
If you think you can only play Tau as a castle to be effective, then that is how far you can play against them. Seeing how one of the most suggested tactic in 7e is a point blank turn 1/2 beta deep strike, prepare to be caught with your pants down sir.

I know how to beat Tau, I play my KDK or Orks against them. I have some very fast moving KDK and Ork Armies. Tau have a very hard time countering them all the time. it still doesn't negate the fact that Tau are extremely boring to play and play against. You should video tape a battle report against Tau...you'll see what I mean.

Well, there may be hope for you for the Psychic phase, Grey Knights are trying to help Farsight to change his "destiny" so he doesn't lose his soul stopping the oncoming Imperium Crusade to annihilate the Tau.

So you will either get GK allies (yay?) or Chaos Tau (boo) in the Farsight book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Except thats not how they fight.

This entire codex screams turtle.

It encourages you to fight from a distance and shoot your opponent. even if they assault you, now you have a 12" supporting fire. why even bother putting terrain on the table? to benefit Tau? might as well just play on a flat board. It doesn't matter if they have B3 base because for very little you'll be getting units that hit on 3s and 2s.

Space marines got squadroned dreadnoughts? of course the best solution is to give riptides that as well.

40k is going to a bad place in 7th edition. sucks.

don't get me started on STR D missiles and a super heavy that will beat anythings face at only 600 points.

I disagree.

It does not COMPETE in the melee phase. it does not COMPETE in the Psyker phase, yet you're dismayed that it does well in the shooting phase? How unfair does it NEED to be before you think its fair? Lol. It's not like they are paragons of fortitude! Their Riptides are ther only thing that IS and it can't fight either.

Look. The answer to Tau hasn't changed SINCE they were invented. Its so simple it hurts to even have to say it. But fine. I'll say it.

You get in the fastest thing you have and you go as fast as you can towards them. You do not try to outshoot them. You run and just bring bodies. Then you use the throw away remnants they've shot up to absorb overwatch and then you kill their faces off if they are stupid enough to gunline you.

That's it.

And if you want to get super fancy, get a comms relay, get a bunch of cheap deep strikers and outflankers and saturate them all at once, giving them just one turn, and then butcher them.

Meanwhile, Tau Generals like me have embraced a far more mobile form of Tau warfare. Because we dont want this to happen to us. And it will happen to us if we face a general who knows better than to try and get into a shooting war. Even my enemies WORST troops can probably knock my block off!

7E absolutely gives you every reason to embrace speed as a weapon. It gave you Maelstrom, it's given you objective intensive tournament formats, it's given every army an expanding list of units and the ones you need to pinpoint for yourself are those that get you there fast.

Its no accident that White Scars do well. Its no accident that Scatterbikes are feared. Its no accident that I play a Dark eldar list whose only job in life is movement and melee. Its no accident that the best performing Blood Angels lists have flyers and its no accident that the Tau Empire only really does cool things in one phase of the entire game. but it DOES do cool things in that phase, and that's the way it has always been. Like always. And the answer has literally never changed.

I know how to beat Tau, I play my KDK or Orks against them. I have some very fast moving KDK and Ork Armies. Tau have a very hard time countering them all the time. it still doesn't negate the fact that Tau are extremely boring to play and play against. You should video tape a battle report against Tau...you'll see what I mean.

The worst thing about Tau battle reports is how often people get the rules wrong. Tau work on massive synergy between units, almost like how a Magic deck synergies with its cards. When people get the rules wrong, its like someone trying to equip a fireball to a creature and you know they are most likely going to lose.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
most tournaments play Dawn of war table deployment. Tau are boring.

This guy pretty much says it all.

Interesting. This guy isn't very tactically minded. He has a burning desire to see supporting fire eliminated,and thinks that rue alone causes players to turtle their entire force? Interesting. the codex has a huge amount of Deep Striking, infiltrating, Scouting and so on in it.

He's ignoring Banshees (and one can easily understand why) and Dirge Casters (which work great against Tau as I've learned). He's giving Tau Generals no credit at all in this diveo. and hes undervaluing how far 12" really is.

If I took pics of a hundred battle reports, and looked at how far apart all the units are from one another, I wonder how many, proportionally would be far flung, vs. easily within a supportable distance of one another?

meh. he needs to have like a discussion on this or something in the video because his feelings about Tau seem entirely based on someone wanting Supporting fire so bad they'll sacrifice a bunch of their offensive ability to get it. For example, IG FREQUENTLY bring Wyverns and sometiimes Manticores and such. How does turtling help against them? When the forces of the Dark eldar are on you turn one and all those Tau can shoot at is Raider hulls for a round, no amount of overwatch is going to help and multicharges are a nobrainer against Tau given the Supporting Fire rule? Dark Eldar have fought like this since the ancient Witch Cult days.

I know a gunline can absolutely devastate a slower moving force that tries to approach. THAt I can ttest to becaue when I SEE such a force I'm all about it. but 7E does not reward that kind of army as often so...

i dunno. Kinda a pessimistic outlook.

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Johnnytorrance wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Except thats not how they fight.

This entire codex screams turtle.

It encourages you to fight from a distance and shoot your opponent. even if they assault you, now you have a 12" supporting fire. why even bother putting terrain on the table? to benefit Tau? might as well just play on a flat board. It doesn't matter if they have B3 base because for very little you'll be getting units that hit on 3s and 2s.

Space marines got squadroned dreadnoughts? of course the best solution is to give riptides that as well.

40k is going to a bad place in 7th edition. sucks.

don't get me started on STR D missiles and a super heavy that will beat anythings face at only 600 points.

I disagree.

It does not COMPETE in the melee phase. it does not COMPETE in the Psyker phase, yet you're dismayed that it does well in the shooting phase? How unfair does it NEED to be before you think its fair? Lol. It's not like they are paragons of fortitude! Their Riptides are ther only thing that IS and it can't fight either.

Look. The answer to Tau hasn't changed SINCE they were invented. Its so simple it hurts to even have to say it. But fine. I'll say it.

You get in the fastest thing you have and you go as fast as you can towards them. You do not try to outshoot them. You run and just bring bodies. Then you use the throw away remnants they've shot up to absorb overwatch and then you kill their faces off if they are stupid enough to gunline you.

That's it.

And if you want to get super fancy, get a comms relay, get a bunch of cheap deep strikers and outflankers and saturate them all at once, giving them just one turn, and then butcher them.

Meanwhile, Tau Generals like me have embraced a far more mobile form of Tau warfare. Because we dont want this to happen to us. And it will happen to us if we face a general who knows better than to try and get into a shooting war. Even my enemies WORST troops can probably knock my block off!

7E absolutely gives you every reason to embrace speed as a weapon. It gave you Maelstrom, it's given you objective intensive tournament formats, it's given every army an expanding list of units and the ones you need to pinpoint for yourself are those that get you there fast.

Its no accident that White Scars do well. Its no accident that Scatterbikes are feared. Its no accident that I play a Dark eldar list whose only job in life is movement and melee. Its no accident that the best performing Blood Angels lists have flyers and its no accident that the Tau Empire only really does cool things in one phase of the entire game. but it DOES do cool things in that phase, and that's the way it has always been. Like always. And the answer has literally never changed.

I know how to beat Tau, I play my KDK or Orks against them. I have some very fast moving KDK and Ork Armies. Tau have a very hard time countering them all the time. it still doesn't negate the fact that Tau are extremely boring to play and play against. You should video tape a battle report against Tau...you'll see what I mean.

haters gonna hate

I agree with Jancoran about that "review" guy. This guy clearly has a single-minded view on the game and doesnt consider literally anything except "generic movement" to counter the tau gameplay. And supporting fire RARELY is a dealbreaker for me, its usually just a way to add 1 more death to overwatch results - as i rarely get more than that without getting some lucky markerlights in there first.

Markerlights literally dont help for jack with the Stormsurge unless it focuses all of its guns on 1-2 targets. Our Str D missiles are by far not unfair because they are not seeker missiles, meaning we need 3 markerlights to reliably hit it and either roll a 6 to ignore cover or add 2 more marks to ignore cover 2-5 results. It can be missed, quite easily at that, and its a single use unlike a LOT of other Str D weapons.
Not to mention, we need more markerlights between shots created by Stabilizers. The Stormsurge needs an insane amount of markerlights to properly support, its better off on its own without MLs except on of course the main target you want dead this turn to slap the S10 blast on.

"Eldar can play lot of maneuverability and tactical gameplay" LOL! Eldar are even worse than Tau with the static gameplay, they LITERALLY dont do anything but spam wraith units and psykers. I dont know a single eldar player that actually utilizes their mobility even half as much as tau players.

Talk about a biased review. There are five Tau players in my area, and not a single one of us do gunlines - we are all highly mobile, deepstrike happy, and run and gun happy.

I play Tau and I have a mixed gunline/ mid field strategy that blends well together and I believe these formations and new rules will make me unbeatable in my meta. I'll have to scale back a bit if I want to keep my friends. :/

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I agree with Jancoran about that "review" guy. This guy clearly has a single-minded view on the game and doesnt consider literally anything except "generic movement" to counter the tau gameplay. And supporting fire RARELY is a dealbreaker for me, its usually just a way to add 1 more death to overwatch results - as i rarely get more than that without getting some lucky markerlights in there first.

Markerlights literally dont help for jack with the Stormsurge unless it focuses all of its guns on 1-2 targets. Our Str D missiles are by far not unfair because they are not seeker missiles, meaning we need 3 markerlights to reliably hit it and either roll a 6 to ignore cover or add 2 more marks to ignore cover 2-5 results. It can be missed, quite easily at that, and its a single use unlike a LOT of other Str D weapons.
Not to mention, we need more markerlights between shots created by Stabilizers. The Stormsurge needs an insane amount of markerlights to properly support, its better off on its own without MLs except on of course the main target you want dead this turn to slap the S10 blast on.

"Eldar can play lot of maneuverability and tactical gameplay" LOL! Eldar are even worse than Tau with the static gameplay, they LITERALLY dont do anything but spam wraith units and psykers. I dont know a single eldar player that actually utilizes their mobility even half as much as tau players.

Talk about a biased review. There are five Tau players in my area, and not a single one of us do gunlines - we are all highly mobile, deepstrike happy, and run and gun happy.

Precisely. The internet is full of opinions and lots of them are worth reading. but the gross overgeneralization over Tau Tactics by people just tells me two things: One, there's a lot of non-dynamic thinkers in this game and second, exxageration is not dead.

It's kind of like Adepta Sororitas. I'll wager that many people (not all) have maybe played 5% of their games against this faction. I personally am closer to 10% just because of my meta but the vast majority do not own this army and of those who own it, a vast majority play other armies as often or more often than that one. Yet... The internet is just filled with opinons about them that are wrong. I literally had someone tell me the other day on another Dakka thread that they had no answer for Imperial Knights. Eh... Fer serious dude? Have you SEEN that codex?

So yeah. pessimists gonna' Pessimate I guess. And yes: i made that word up just now. And It's awesome.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
I play Tau and I have a mixed gunline/ mid field strategy that blends well together and I believe these formations and new rules will make me unbeatable in my meta. I'll have to scale back a bit if I want to keep my friends. :/

Dunno bout all that but I do know that learnign the ENTIRE codex is a lot of fun and can yield really interesting battles. So perhaps just diversifying your approach will allow you to play just as competitively and yet not give the IMPRESSION that all is lost.

The illusion of a chance is better than the certainty you describe. =)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
There are five Tau players in my area, and not a single one of us do gunlines - we are all highly mobile, deepstrike happy, and run and gun happy.

This is how the Tau players in meta are as well.

Gunlines don't work unless they have mobile elements up front as well.

Shooting a lot=/=static gunline. Yeah, you can sit and turtle if you really want, but that's not how Tau were competing in tournaments prior to the codex. It's certainly not how they're going to compete now. Ghostkeels are very mobile, and with the awesomeness of the OSC, I anticipate quite a few armies pressing forward early to control the midfield. All our units can run and shoot! Sure, they're not Eldar jetbikes, but moderate range combined with that kind of mobility is potent.

That said, our game has shifted from a 30-ish inch contest of Broadsides raining missiles and Crisis suits JSJing all over the place to a much more complex web of units synergizing each other with slightly shorter ranges. You're going to have to use your mobility to keep everything positioned appropriately.

Mobility is the way to victory in 7E. Gunlines are cool if the enemy army calls for it. I mean why NOT take advantage of an unprepared foes unfortunate choices? Its your job in a wargame. So maybe its just that the gunline Tau players dont play against a large number of deployment option rich armies? That could be the case I guess? I dont think that it would lead you to this guys opinion necessarily but it would at least explain it a little bit.

Ahh interesting. I dont need to run a monat afterall and can still run the full retaliation cadre with an infiltration cadre. The bonus BS only requires the units in it to DS, but not necessarily to DS with the rest of the formation, thus I can still start the broadsides on the board and DS with the rest getting the bonus. With all the markerlights from the pathfinders the broadsides wont need the BS anyway.

Since I will need a commander, I am thinking a XV-81(I think) with the integral networked marker light to start on the board to boost the broadsides in case of drop pods from my opponent.