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Whats the consensus with Remora Drones?

I can see taking a CAD (darkstrider/2 min FW squads, 2/3 Remora Squads) alongside the Taucurion.

Networked Markerlights are great, especially since we cant spam Sky Rays.

The thing about Remora's is that if you're just looking for networked Markerlights, why not run Skyrays instead? I guess you can snag a Piranha or two with seekers for your fast attack with the Taucurion, but it just feels weird if you aren't running a Skyray when you have a CAD in addition to the Hunter Cadre.

I honestly think the Retaliation Cadre is the true "Taucurion" formation, and not the Hunter cad.

I've played both the Skyray and the Remora, and while the Skyray is very effective with its alpha strike and makes a good core for a castle, it doesn't do much more beyond that since it is stuck in one place in order to fire both markerlights effectively.

When I fielded a squadron of two Remoras, they were very effective harassing and marking units. The two seeker missiles mounted to each them can also expand their role by getting behind a vehicle by good flying or dropping into hover and taking it down.

Comparing two Remoras and a Skyray, the Remoras are more expensive by about 49 points (against a Skyray with BSF and Disruption Pods) and lose two seeker missiles, but instead of a single TL SMS, they each have a TL Long-barrel Burst Cannon, which are Heavy 6. Pumping 12 S5 shots into infantry or the tail of a vehicle will hurt. The low armor of the Remoras will be painful, especially if the enemy has Skyfire, but if they don't, they further serve as a great distraction if they do shoot at them.

Think of Remoras like a flying cross between a Tetra and a Piranha (burst cannon) that leans more on offense than marking.

One other advantage of the Remora: it's a tiny model mounted on a skimmer base, NOT the large flyer base. So with the stealth field you should almost always have a 2+ cover save without jinking, if you can't get out of LOS entirely.

Also. a freaking shrouded flyer.

If you are faced with heavy AA fire, just jink for your 2+ save.

Remoras are harder to kill than people give credit for. what holds them back is the fact they truly shine in huge flocks, and then they are also very expensive.

Yeah they and tetras are definitely making me consider a CAD. But I have to say, do we REALLY need that many markerlights anymore? Darkstrider is nice, don't get me wrong. So are Skyrays. But consider the OSC for example (even outside the Taucurion). Stealth suits are always BS4. A squad of 3 ghostkeels (which should last, at minimum, for 2 or three turns, no matter the opposition) are always BS5. Broadsides are twin-linked. I know the riptide needs it, but how much? And inside a Taucurion, just add 1 to every BS I just mentioned. Even Riptides could be perpetually at BS 4, so long as you shoot with at least 3 units. And if you felt like taking 3 Riptides in a unit, they would be at BS 5 until one died (assuming you could coordinate fire for them)

I'm just not seeing the need for many markerlights at all

 luke1705 wrote:
Yeah they and tetras are definitely making me consider a CAD. But I have to say, do we REALLY need that many markerlights anymore? Darkstrider is nice, don't get me wrong. So are Skyrays. But consider the OSC for example (even outside the Taucurion). Stealth suits are always BS4. A squad of 3 ghostkeels (which should last, at minimum, for 2 or three turns, no matter the opposition) are always BS5. Broadsides are twin-linked. I know the riptide needs it, but how much? And inside a Taucurion, just add 1 to every BS I just mentioned. Even Riptides could be perpetually at BS 4, so long as you shoot with at least 3 units. And if you felt like taking 3 Riptides in a unit, they would be at BS 5 until one died (assuming you could coordinate fire for them)

I'm just not seeing the need for many markerlights at all

Quoted for truth. I'm not sure markerlights are needed either, except perhaps if you want to run a Stormsurge or two (Str. D missiles!), or possibly to use the ignore cover benefit (not necessary if using a fully kitted-out buffmander and/or and OSC). Perhaps this is the end of the era of the Mark'O, and Pathfinders should perhaps be taken for, dare I say it, Rail Rifles instead of Markerlights.

Pretty much for ignores cover purposes where the buffmander isnt involved and Stormsurge, since it would be pretty hard to give it +1BS unless you unload all of its guns on one unit using coord fire. Which, imo, is a waste because unless you have no other target why would you put the high power and the low power on the same target? it can splitfire for a reason lol.

Which is kinda ridiculous if you think about it. We didnt lose markerlights, but basically got the reason they exist removed via formations and Fire Team. People thought they were bogus before (which i didnt, since army wide BS3 hurts once you remove the ML) theyre going to be livid now lol.

 TranSpyre wrote:
Whats the consensus with Remora Drones?

I can see taking a CAD (darkstrider/2 min FW squads, 2/3 Remora Squads) alongside the Taucurion.

Networked Markerlights are great, especially since we cant spam Sky Rays.

If you're already going for a CAD, why not spam sky rays already?

Assault.

So with no Skyrays being available to the Hunter Contingent, does the value of Piranhas go up?

Piranhas have always been a cheap unit with a lot of mobility, that could produce drone curtains, and they can carry a decent amount of seeker missiles. However, they always suffered from not having any real shooting when using their Jink saves, which was their main mode of survival, but in the Hunter Cadre their shooting doesn't actually matter since they can be a cheap and easy way of getting the BS buff for other units, while helping themselves, and they can flat out and still shoot now.

It just feels like Piranha can be very solid buff units now, that can also house Seeker Missiles that are pretty solid. The loss of the Markerlights that the Skyray has is a bummer, but they do provide a lot more utility now, when they've already been a reasonable solid unit.

Edit: Don't forget a Piranha with dismounted drones, can provide two separate shooting units in itself for the three unit buff.

I personally think the Piranhas are incredible deals for the points if you just take em in their base form. So many shots, so fast and relatively tough. They take real firepower to down given jinks in the rounds they are just moving anyways and so on. Great Picket fences. I dunno. Hard to beat em. Not popular fr some reason but i have always kinda liked em.

I think the issue with piranhas is that T'au just doesn't need more s5 ap 5 shots. Firewarriors, gundrones, stealth suits, devil fish, and piranhas all fire the same shots. But you are already getting s5 ap5 from cluster rockets of stormsurges, sms on riptides, sms on hammerheads/skyrays, sms on braodsides. Needless to say we have a lot of s5 ap5 and piranhas are just adding more where we could be taking another crisis suit. Keep in mind it takes an average of 9 bs3 s5 ap3 shot to kill a MEQ.

yeah. i didnt say you really need em. i jut think they are worthy additions. the Tau Empire codex allows you to roll out a LOT of builds that are just as good as the others. You can use all the units i nthe codex in my experience and have a lot of success so it doesnt suffr the usual problems of "oh gosh, only these units do anything".

I wouldn't take piranhas for their shooting, I'd take them because they're the closest thing Tau has to a jetbike. In other words, their function is to grab objectives in maelstrom and generally be a nuisance. Sensory spines is a good upgrade for them, fusion isn't.

 MLKTH wrote:
I wouldn't take piranhas for their shooting, I'd take them because they're the closest thing Tau has to a jetbike. In other words, their function is to grab objectives in maelstrom and generally be a nuisance. Sensory spines is a good upgrade for them, fusion isn't.

I don't know, I think fusion works okay for them. Makes them kind of have the same role as a space marine attack bike w/MM. Costs less than the attack bike too! Plus, Piranhas can take seeker missiles, perhaps we will see more of this option since it is hard to work Sky Rays into the Taucurion. Only problem is that its easier to one-shot a Piranha than an attack bike. Still, the detachable drones help to make up for this shortcoming.

I've wanted Piranhas to be good for years. They're obviously great for harassment and getting from A to B in a hurry, and being able to dump off a few drones to do whatever you like sounds great. They were okay-ish at best as road blocks and objective grabbers prior to the codex, but I feel like they've really taken a hit with Tau's newfound mobility. Granted run+shoot doesn't equal a fast turbo-boosting skimmer, but that extra d6" per turn can make a huge difference, given that it's army-wide. Also, since Ghoskeels are awesome, the need for a highly mobile, small-arms-resistant fire platform is reduced dramatically. I'm not convinced the Retaliation Cadre is all that, but deep striking half your army is a nice way to get around being less mobile than many other armies, too.

Maybe you could figure out a way to abuse Piranhas by dumping off drones and using drone controllers for a bunch of BS5 shots or something. I want them to have a place in a competitive Tau army, but I'm not seeing it right now. I'd much rather have a decked-out Ghostkeel or a few lone crisis suits running around the board than a few Piranhas.

 MLKTH wrote:
I wouldn't take piranhas for their shooting, I'd take them because they're the closest thing Tau has to a jetbike. In other words, their function is to grab objectives in maelstrom and generally be a nuisance. Sensory spines is a good upgrade for them, fusion isn't.

I also like how they can pin enemy units in place at critical times.

Just played a 2k game with a hunter contingent, OSC, AND FBC against two knights, storm lord, grav cents and scouts to flavor...

He had first turn and resulted in only putting two wounds on my riptide and killing a single sniper drone...

The resulting str 7 and D missiles dropped both knights in excess totalling 25+(with at least one deathblow result) unsaved hull points between the two.

He conceded right then on my first turn.

daaaaaaaaaaaaang. Well done.

MilkmanAl wrote:I've wanted Piranhas to be good for years. They're obviously great for harassment and getting from A to B in a hurry, and being able to dump off a few drones to do whatever you like sounds great. They were okay-ish at best as road blocks and objective grabbers prior to the codex, but I feel like they've really taken a hit with Tau's newfound mobility. Granted run+shoot doesn't equal a fast turbo-boosting skimmer, but that extra d6" per turn can make a huge difference, given that it's army-wide.

It isn't army-wide - it's only for Hunter Cadre units and those within 12" of the Commander and/or Cadre Fireblade. If they die, you lose this ability.

Predictable result of the Stormsurge's abilities, really.

Of all the various odd decisions the rules team have been making lately, creating weapons that punish you for taking anything larger than an infantry model is the most bizzare.

Four independently targetable D-shots to be launched on turn one (Or witheld until a unit that tries to hide in reserves arrives), presumably at BS5? Yep, that's any two large models of your choice essentially auto-deleted.

A unit you can't take without ruining the game for both players is worse than a weak unit.

It isn't army-wide - it's only for Hunter Cadre units and those within 12" of the Commander and/or Cadre Fireblade. If they die, you lose this ability.

Fair enough. That's basically the entirety of what I (and many people, it seems) plan to field, though. In any case, I don't see mobility being something that Tau need a lot of help with.

changemod wrote:
Predictable result of the Stormsurge's abilities, really.

Of all the various odd decisions the rules team have been making lately, creating weapons that punish you for taking anything larger than an infantry model is the most bizzare.

Four independently targetable D-shots to be launched on turn one (Or witheld until a unit that tries to hide in reserves arrives), presumably at BS5? Yep, that's any two large models of your choice essentially auto-deleted.

A unit you can't take without ruining the game for both players is worse than a weak unit.

That's kind of how I felt after that game. I may not use it a whole lot at my store since I don't play against power gamers.

If someone is bringing Wraith Knights, pretty sure my conscience is clean about anything I bring. =)

Tau Empire have always seemed to be the "meta breaker army". It has always seemingly made people pay for doing the norm. It basically has been the rock against which the waters of conformity are broken....

(cue dramatic music)

changemod wrote:Predictable result of the Stormsurge's abilities, really.

Of all the various odd decisions the rules team have been making lately, creating weapons that punish you for taking anything larger than an infantry model is the most bizzare.

Four independently targetable D-shots to be launched on turn one (Or witheld until a unit that tries to hide in reserves arrives), presumably at BS5? Yep, that's any two large models of your choice essentially auto-deleted.

A unit you can't take without ruining the game for both players is worse than a weak unit.

Those StrD 66.7% of the time do additional hullpoints.

A single StrD will be (very efficient at) doing some hull points. These can be saved by cover saves (Yes, I know!) or invulnerable etc. A '6' results in an awesome deathblow.. but 4 missiles, 1/6 chance.. etc.

Still - awesome result.

I still think you're all missing a major part of why Piranhas are so much better now, they basically read "Dismount drones, target both at a unit, give a unit you control +1BS, and maybe do some damage with the drones/burst."

Piranhas can not only carry Seekers, but also pseudo-Markerlight within the Hunter Contingent since the Drones and Piranha are separate units, so they basically give a unit of your choice +1 BS...

So I see others posting combining firepower with one unit with a drone controller and a seperate unit of drones. Would this work? I could see a unit of sniper drone controllers acting as a mark'o when combined with a seperate unit of marker drones tagging the same unit.

Thanks,
Brian

Razerous wrote:

changemod wrote:Predictable result of the Stormsurge's abilities, really.

Of all the various odd decisions the rules team have been making lately, creating weapons that punish you for taking anything larger than an infantry model is the most bizzare.

Four independently targetable D-shots to be launched on turn one (Or witheld until a unit that tries to hide in reserves arrives), presumably at BS5? Yep, that's any two large models of your choice essentially auto-deleted.

A unit you can't take without ruining the game for both players is worse than a weak unit.

Those StrD 66.7% of the time do additional hullpoints.

A single StrD will be (very efficient at) doing some hull points. These can be saved by cover saves (Yes, I know!) or invulnerable etc. A '6' results in an awesome deathblow.. but 4 missiles, 1/6 chance.. etc.

Still - awesome result.

Two missiles will average 6 wounds against a Wraithknight without an invulnerable, 4 against one with.

That's enough to kill or weaken enough to be finished off by other means. A chance of flubbing it, but by that point you're counting on raw chance rather than strategy and there's an equal chance of deathblows.

MilkmanAl wrote:

It isn't army-wide - it's only for Hunter Cadre units and those within 12" of the Commander and/or Cadre Fireblade. If they die, you lose this ability.

Fair enough. That's basically the entirety of what I (and many people, it seems) plan to field, though. In any case, I don't see mobility being something that Tau need a lot of help with.

You can't just field that, you need an auxiliary. Albeit it could just be a drone squad.