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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 07:03:39
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Lady of the Lake
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I'm running 2 ghostkeel in a OSC with rakers, blasters, VTs and TL as my anti air. Misssilesides and such seem good, but I just like wall of mirrors, it's like it was made with vt in mind hitting them in rear and no jinks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 09:23:48
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'm liking the OSC with three Ghostkeels if I'm honest...protection from bignfuns for three turns, BS5 Ignore Cover is amazing in its own right.
How would you arm them? Target locks on two, stim pack on all, hit and run on last?
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 10:28:29
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Pete Haines
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I was considering trying out a consertive crisis star, just the 9 with missile pods and target locks, with a buffmander and some defensive toys to tank (iridium, Stims). Support them with three skyrays (disruption pods ftw) and ally in 4 squads of legion of the damned (melta, melta & combi Grav) + inquisitor with servo skulls. Rounds off to 1850 with some min tax kroot for infiltrating or bubble wrapping.
Have the modals and it's the way I'd lean if I was to run a crisis 'bomb'. I think they are too flimsy to risk up close, Grav, melta, battle cannons , combat, all wreck them, and morale is an issue. The unit footprint would be large as well. At least with missile pods you can stay at long range or come from reserves on your own board edge.
On paper, a crisis star looks great for damage output, pity about the glass jaw and morale issues though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 12:28:17
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eh. Shadowsun can give you a beefed up save with Stealth and Shrouded. Buffmander can five you Stubborn for a turn. And you can get Fearless through the Eight formation, although its expensive for what you get
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 13:31:53
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Lady of the Lake
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Been thinking, how can Tau deal with stuff like a wraithknight without using stuff like a stormsurge or ta'unar? I figured fusion blaster but those are pretty short ranged and especially with a melee wk it's going to be a pretty big challenge especially for suit heavy forces like what I'm using.
I think the best thing suits would probably be able to bring to deal with it is s7 spam and I don't think that's much good either.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 13:44:27
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you're doing a footslogger Crisis star you could always team them with Shadowsun for more mobility and the awesome cover save. Then just get a leader in the star and slap the buffmander goodies on him. Could solve some of the issues with a plasma star or the like.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 14:16:35
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
San Diego, CA
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n0t_u wrote:Been thinking, how can Tau deal with stuff like a wraithknight without using stuff like a stormsurge or ta'unar? I figured fusion blaster but those are pretty short ranged and especially with a melee wk it's going to be a pretty big challenge especially for suit heavy forces like what I'm using.
I think the best thing suits would probably be able to bring to deal with it is s7 spam and I don't think that's much good either.
A Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon on one Riptide and an Ion Accelerator would do work. And if you really want to look at the full range of models available to Tau, there's the Y'Vahra too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 14:47:24
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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in regards to the WK... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1170/668091.page#top
several pages back in this thread.
In short, Tau really dont have much reliable options for taking out high toughness. Its an asinine amount of guns to do it
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 15:05:44
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Lady of the Lake
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So reading through it, really the hymp is probably the most consistent weapon to use outside of getting the D from the surge's missiles. Even then it's going to take a while.
The advantage I can see the missilesides having over the riptide against it are simply more shots and access to sig systems through the commander leading to tank hunter. Probably the best we'll get.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 15:09:20
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Frozocrone wrote:Eh. Shadowsun can give you a beefed up save with Stealth and Shrouded. Buffmander can five you Stubborn for a turn. And you can get Fearless through the Eight formation, although its expensive for what you get
if you take the eight, there is no point to the buffmander. No PEN Chip (Sha'vastos), no MSS (Torchstar)
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'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 16:41:21
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Pete Haines
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Fair point on shadowsun, she probably is worth it considering the warlord trait and defensive buffs. Expensive though considering you'd be mainly taking her for the stealth and shrouding, which has two issues, the amount of ignore cover floating about and she has infiltrate, so can't deploy with the unit, which is a bit awkward.
The nice thing about a walking crisis star is the relative cost, it's sub 700pts for the 9 and a tanky buffmander. Still something you really don't want to get gaked on from an alpha strike or battle cannon, but you do have plenty of pts to invest elsewhere. I think if you really wanted to invest in defensive measures for it, a void shield generator, inquisitor with servo skulls and ally in a minimal white scars force with a Grav cents unit and Corteaz in there with the obligatory drop pod. Maybe the librarian with hunters eye for extra sauce.
I know we as tau have plenty of sources of interceptor ourselves without needing allies, but Corteaz and some Grav cents, a void shield generator and inquisitor with servo skulls shuts down allot of stuff.
Mind you, I don't even own a riptide or stormsurge, a crisis suit man and mech tau myself, not a massive fan of Pacific rim style tau. Crisis suits don't really lend themselves to EWO.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 18:26:48
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Human Auxiliary to the Empire
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If Wraithknights weren't so mobile, a unit of Breachers mounted in a Fish would be an interesting and cost-effective choice especially paired with a Sniper Drone Team - but I'm not sure that the Breachers would ever be able to catch the Wraithknight.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 18:29:43
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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Kind of i guess. I mean it is 20 shots that pen armor, though they wound on a 6 and still have FNP to deal with.
But yeah its mobility counters that. If you can deploy within 5" of a WK then the Eldar player completely ignored them lol
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/21 18:36:27
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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3 Sky Rays (assuming boosting BS to 5 with their own marker lights) will shoot 18 missiles, meaning 15 hits, which is 7.5 wounds, and after FnP thats 5 wounds, meaning the wraith knight is ALMOST dead... Could work I guess lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 01:50:13
Subject: Re:For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Reliable Krootox
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Frozocrone wrote:Which load out should I give it?
Which formation is best for it, Wing or Cadre?
I find these two questions to be inter-related. Loadouts always vary depending on the role of the unit or necessity of task. The OSC and G-wing tend to perform very different for me.
The OSC will prefer to hunt armor, and do that task well. Due to missing out on Wall of Mirrors, I often do not like Intercepting with the OSC (but I always take it). The Raker/Blaster combo seems too perfect to pass up for this specialty. For a second system I like Velocity Trackers or Automated Targeting. Velocity Trackers are really expensive, but most other Factions would kill for a 160 point Interceptor/Skyfire-on-demand unit as durable as a Ghost. I loved the Ghost's model and got three right off the rip, so I like to run all three, but not together. The Fire Team rule is great, don't get me wrong, but I do have issues with them fielded in a squad of three. The huge footprint of the unit is cumbersome, and it makes them much easier to catch in assault. In my area most of the units that can catch them, are prepared to murder them quickly. I usually feel that one or two is more effective and the Fire Team bonus is not worth it.
The Wing is more my style, and I field it more often. The Ghosts are split up and are usually sticking close to the rest of my army to push out the Stealth Field bonus. As such, I usually prefer the Raker/Burst Cannon, because they do like to Intercept, and I find the Burst Cannon more effective in that role (but the Blaster is still good here). The benefits of the Networked Stealth Field can be huge, especially if you can get Night Attacker or Conqueror of Cities as a Warlord Trait, or just roll a Night Fight. Those 2+ cover saves can negate an awful lot of alpha strike shooting (Skyhammer). They are great harassment units in the Wing, but suffer offensively due to not being a part either Contingent. For a second system I usually take Automated Targeting, due to the volume of dice each rolls for offense, or Counterfire Defense, because they will almost always be within Supporting Fire range due to the Stealth Field. This is one of the Formations that feels really fluffy to me on the field.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 02:54:49
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Tunneling Trygon
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n0t_u wrote:Been thinking, how can Tau deal with stuff like a wraithknight without using stuff like a stormsurge or ta'unar? I figured fusion blaster but those are pretty short ranged and especially with a melee wk it's going to be a pretty big challenge especially for suit heavy forces like what I'm using.
I think the best thing suits would probably be able to bring to deal with it is s7 spam and I don't think that's much good either.
Stormsurge. Str D missiles with ignores cover will take anything out. Automatically Appended Next Post: That being said, sometimes it is just best to try and ignore it (though that's a tenuous position, at best, for many Tau units who do not want to get assaulted).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/24 02:55:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 06:39:45
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
San Diego, CA
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luke1705 wrote: n0t_u wrote:Been thinking, how can Tau deal with stuff like a wraithknight without using stuff like a stormsurge or ta'unar? I figured fusion blaster but those are pretty short ranged and especially with a melee wk it's going to be a pretty big challenge especially for suit heavy forces like what I'm using.
I think the best thing suits would probably be able to bring to deal with it is s7 spam and I don't think that's much good either.
Stormsurge. Str D missiles with ignores cover will take anything out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said, sometimes it is just best to try and ignore it (though that's a tenuous position, at best, for many Tau units who do not want to get assaulted).
Next time, read the whole post of the person you're quoting. He asked how to handle a Wraithknight WITHOUT using a Stormsurge.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 08:01:24
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Crisis Suits w/ Double Fusion? Attach a buffmander for ignore cover monster hunter...
4 suits on average to kill the ranged variant, 6 for melee (provided that I've done the mathammer right).
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 11:58:22
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
UK
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Frozocrone wrote:Crisis Suits w/ Double Fusion? Attach a buffmander for ignore cover monster hunter... 4 suits on average to kill the ranged variant, 6 for melee (provided that I've done the mathammer right).
4 suits = 8 shots. The thing has 8 wounds and you are wounding on 4's. Even with a re-roll, thats 75% odds... and ofc assuming you hit with all 8. But it gets FNP, so close but not quite. Lots of talk about 'killing' a unit. That results in suggestions of X or Y unit, generally costing huge amounts. Have folks considered 'killing' its effectiveness? Doing things that mean it can't move, is engaged in melee, moving prime targets out of D-gun (or charge) range. Etc. All this can be done more a much fairer price and may accomplish much the same result.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/24 12:00:42
H.B.M.C. wrote:Friend of mine just sent me this:
"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ." Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!
Heh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 12:04:53
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Water-Caste Negotiator
Ontario, Canada
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 16:41:38
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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Its pretty damn hard to avoid a ~42" threat range with its D weapons, and being Fearless you cant pin it, and Tau have no access to any psyker powers that dont care about fearless to make it always move through terrain (autopasses dangers but still moves 3D6 take and double the highest, so it'll slow down a little).
It has a stupidly high init, which makes no sense for a dead golem thing. Golems are always depicted as clucky but durable things in ANY universe, yet the Eldar ones are fast and nimble for some reason. If it had a crap init, i'd consider throwing Defensive Grenades at it to force blind tests. Init5 means im just going to throw my firewarriors away for no reason.
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/24 16:46:36
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
San Diego, CA
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Vineheart01 wrote:Its pretty damn hard to avoid a ~42" threat range with its D weapons, and being Fearless you cant pin it, and Tau have no access to any psyker powers that dont care about fearless to make it always move through terrain (autopasses dangers but still moves 3D6 take and double the highest, so it'll slow down a little).
It has a stupidly high init, which makes no sense for a dead golem thing. Golems are always depicted as clucky but durable things in ANY universe, yet the Eldar ones are fast and nimble for some reason. If it had a crap init, i'd consider throwing Defensive Grenades at it to force blind tests. Init5 means im just going to throw my firewarriors away for no reason.
Which means we must resort to utilizing Stormsurge Destroyer Missiles to bring them down.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/26 21:05:47
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Not to derail the current discussion, but maybe someone could help me with something.
I already have 10 Fire-Warriors, and got two of the Starter Army bundles, meaning I can build another 20 Fire-Warriors, Breachers, or some combination thereof.
I don't know much about Breachers and don't have my Codex on hand, so is it worth building any of them? Is 30 Fire-Warriors just more than I would need, so I should do some Breachers just for options-sake?
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11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/26 21:21:27
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
San Diego, CA
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Firewarriors as a whole are not very competitive other than being chrap and easy to hide. In a friendly style, less competitive list they can be freakishly good. I wouldn't take more than 10, but stick them in a Devilfish with Darkstrider for some scary damage output.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/26 21:41:41
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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In a non-ITC environment where Coordinated Firepower works as it is (pretty clearly) written, I think you can make a good case for Fire Warriors being a reasonably competitive choice. Aside from drone factories, they're the cheapest source of S5 AP5 we have and have a very respectable range of 30". When you start stacking marker lights and special rules - twin-linked, ignores cover, monster hunter, -1T, and BS 5 is actually pretty easily achievable - they get scary. They're not very mobile, but a Hunter Contingent helps with that issue.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/26 22:12:30
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Just curious. I was running the math on a classic Buffmander (giving-twinked and ignores cover to everything), and I realized that unless you have a pretty large squad of suits with him, he's really not mathematically worth it -- you would be better off with him shooting.
So I was wondering if anybody has tried using a Buffcrisisbodyguard instead of a Buffmander? They can take the same systems, and you're sacrificing BS3 shots rather than BS5 ones; stick the Commander with him and he's shooting at BS10 effectively.
The downside is less durability though, obviouslt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/26 22:42:58
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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I've been liking a Buff-Shas'vre (Buff'vre?) rather than a Buffmander, as the buffing on its own seems to be a waste on a Commander platform since its not like I'll be moving the Buffer from unit to unit. Best use is on a max squad of Missile Pod Crisis suits, for me, anyway.
SJ
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“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/27 00:05:57
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Not to derail the current discussion, but maybe someone could help me with something.
I already have 10 Fire-Warriors, and got two of the Starter Army bundles, meaning I can build another 20 Fire-Warriors, Breachers, or some combination thereof.
I don't know much about Breachers and don't have my Codex on hand, so is it worth building any of them? Is 30 Fire-Warriors just more than I would need, so I should do some Breachers just for options-sake?
Well the Breachers are fantastic as either Fish of Fury guys oooor.... as reserves whose job is to come on and defend the StormSurge from attacks (orjust bubble wrap but that is a little more iffy because they can get shot down on the approach and LD at boards edge?...)
I think the Tidewall makes Fire Warriors awfully burly. Super tough to kill them in there (relatively) plus they are a little mobile and they can re-roll 1's to hit. Pretty cool.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/27 01:32:17
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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jeffersonian000 wrote:I've been liking a Buff-Shas'vre (Buff'vre?) rather than a Buffmander, as the buffing on its own seems to be a waste on a Commander platform since its not like I'll be moving the Buffer from unit to unit. Best use is on a max squad of Missile Pod Crisis suits, for me, anyway.
SJ
Only problem is you won't be able to have all 4 parts (PEN, C&CN, DC, MSS) of the "buffmander" on a sha'vre, who can only take 3.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/27 02:37:04
Subject: For the greater good! Tau 7th edition tactica.
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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well the DC isnt that important on the buffvre because hes only BS3. Big deal, i'd rather have my third support on any crisis suit than BS3 drones. The main drawback to me is you cant make him remotely a tankmander so he is strictly T4 3+ armor. If any S8 weapons hit him, no invul save or T5. Also if the rest of the unit dies, thats an expensive as hell model that cant do anything since he cant join another unit (ok 87pts which is about the cost of a naked commander but still, the wargear becomes wasted at this point) Breachers in a devilfish are shockingly strong. They dont really have any added defenses since usually they die to failed armor saves anyway (except for the random and rare heavy flamer, my 4+ models usually get their armor since theyre low enough value to rather use the high strength associated with ap4 weapons against my vehicles or suits) but if you can disembark within 5" of a target it evaporates. They are kinda pricy for their durability though since you have to add in the 85-100pt fish, and once they leave it they no longer benefit from its durability. Breachers also murder droppod lists. Even without a fish its very easy to get in range and slaughter them, and make great counter-reserves as a result.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/27 02:38:55
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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