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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, as it is topical, I was about to make my first ever Forgeworld order, and was hoping to add something good to my competitive Tau options.

If I could buy one of the following, should I grab a Y'vahra, R'varna, or three Tetras?

Are we expecting Y'vahra's experimental rules to get nerfed into the ground soon, because I love the model and would love an excuse to own one.

Get the Tetras. If I recall correctly, you can only get them in pairs.

I like the Y'Vahra more than the other two options because of his speed and damage output. I believe he would be the better option. However it's hard to say if it'll get nerfed in the next Imperial Armour book. The R'Varna recieved his nerf within two months of the experimental rules being released, yet this guy went unscathed by the nerf bat. Only time will tell.

Well, at some point I know Tetras are a must. They're too great for the points as Markerlight support. Tough call though.

I really don't consider the Y'Vahra OP by any means and neither do the vast majority of players at my FLGS who have had to played against mine and I do play in a competitive environment. The fact that I have to get within roughly 12 inches to be effective with it really is why they don't consider it over the top, yes whatever I shoot at will die but chances are I will be close enough to my opponent that more fire can be brought against it and be whittled down, especially if he has weapons like plasma guns.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, as it is topical, I was about to make my first ever Forgeworld order, and was hoping to add something good to my competitive Tau options.

If I could buy one of the following, should I grab a Y'vahra, R'varna, or three Tetras?

Are we expecting Y'vahra's experimental rules to get nerfed into the ground soon, because I love the model and would love an excuse to own one.

Tetras, assuming you are not fixated on the bigger detachments, will just rock sauce and fit within most armies. The Y'vahra feels like a centre piece or atleast it will be a big element to your army. Get the former (mobile markerlights that can move super fast for objectives/line breaker!), proxy/test the latter.

I got what feels like a nub question with coordinated firepower... assuming the ITC FAQ ruling on it...

Imagine 5 tau units… A B C D are all fire warrior teams. Unit E is a battlesuit unit, one has a target lock

A + B + E shoot at a target 1, get the bonuses…. Battlesuit with the target lock shoots Target 2. Can that suit then join with Firewarriors C and D to get the Coordinated firepower benefits against target 2?

So you get the bonuses against 2 units, with only 5 units.

Target Locks cause a lot of rule problems that GW seems to refuse to remedy, that situation being one of them.

To me, no you dont get the benefits because Target Lock targets are determined the same time your unit picks a target, which is the primary focus of the unit (i.e. if you declare a charge, the one you haft to charge at).

The rules are written with a primary target in mind, even though nothing actually hard-code says it afaik. Markerlights do not share between a unit if they are targeting various targets, so i dont see why the Coord Fire would. That particular model would, just like with markerlights, but not his entire unit.

Despite the fact that a unit can only participate once per turn in a Coordinated Firepower attack and thus unit E has already done this with A +B. So unit E can't join with C and D.

With the Dawn Blade Contingent the way Killing Blow is worded it seems like it isn't restricted to just units from the formation or am I reading it wrong?

 CKO wrote:
With the Dawn Blade Contingent the way Killing Blow is worded it seems like it isn't restricted to just units from the formation or am I reading it wrong?

Hu, weird, I guess they do? Other Decurion rules state the specific detachment in them, but this one is just everyone?

That being said, getting the second Warlord Trait on a shooting Commander lets you probably melt any Monstrous creatures since you re-roll to hit and to wound, while probably running something like Plasma or CIBs. Does Monster Hunter work against GMCs? If so, what's the math on 3 suits plus a Commander all rocking double Plasma or double CiB to just wipe out a Wraith Knight?

Luford wrote:
I got what feels like a nub question with coordinated firepower... assuming the ITC FAQ ruling on it...

Imagine 5 tau units… A B C D are all fire warrior teams. Unit E is a battlesuit unit, one has a target lock

A + B + E shoot at a target 1, get the bonuses…. Battlesuit with the target lock shoots Target 2. Can that suit then join with Firewarriors C and D to get the Coordinated firepower benefits against target 2?

So you get the bonuses against 2 units, with only 5 units.

I don't see why not, you just news to declare it as you're firing. ITC was more worried about rule sharing.

Target lock lets a model shoot at a different target, the unit is firing at one thing he is firing at something else. In order to gain the benefits of the contingent 3 units must fire at one target not 3 models. The question I have is does the unit with target lock get the increase bs since the unit is buffed which he is technically still part of the unit, right?

 Tinkrr wrote:

 CKO wrote:
With the Dawn Blade Contingent the way Killing Blow is worded it seems like it isn't restricted to just units from the formation or am I reading it wrong?

Hu, weird, I guess they do? Other Decurion rules state the specific detachment in them, but this one is just everyone?

That being said, getting the second Warlord Trait on a shooting Commander lets you probably melt any Monstrous creatures since you re-roll to hit and to wound, while probably running something like Plasma or CIBs. Does Monster Hunter work against GMCs? If so, what's the math on 3 suits plus a Commander all rocking double Plasma or double CiB to just wipe out a Wraith Knight?

Monster hunter still works on GMCs as they are considered MCs with extra rules.

Luford wrote:
I got what feels like a nub question with coordinated firepower... assuming the ITC FAQ ruling on it...

Imagine 5 tau units… A B C D are all fire warrior teams. Unit E is a battlesuit unit, one has a target lock

A + B + E shoot at a target 1, get the bonuses…. Battlesuit with the target lock shoots Target 2. Can that suit then join with Firewarriors C and D to get the Coordinated firepower benefits against target 2?

So you get the bonuses against 2 units, with only 5 units.

Doesn't work.

For Coordinated Firepower to apply, your units need to fire as one unit, ergo simultaneously.

However, while units A+B+E can shoot simultaneously at target X and have part of unit E shoot at target Y, units C and D that are not part of that shooting must wait for that shooting to be complete, and only then fire upon unit Y, at that point E's portion already finished, meaning only C+D coordinate firepower, and no benefit is gained.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doesn't work.

For Coordinated Firepower to apply, your units need to fire as one unit, ergo simultaneously.

However, while units A+B+E can shoot simultaneously at target X and have part of unit E shoot at target Y, units C and D that are not part of that shooting must wait for that shooting to be complete, and only then fire upon unit Y, at that point E's portion already finished, meaning only C+D coordinate firepower, and no benefit is gained.

remember that if E is a stormsurge with its anchors deployed though, then it does work. firing 1 CFP 1, firing 2 CFP2, etc.

and remember that the ITC poll was biased against tau players when it was released.

 carldooley wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doesn't work.

For Coordinated Firepower to apply, your units need to fire as one unit, ergo simultaneously.

However, while units A+B+E can shoot simultaneously at target X and have part of unit E shoot at target Y, units C and D that are not part of that shooting must wait for that shooting to be complete, and only then fire upon unit Y, at that point E's portion already finished, meaning only C+D coordinate firepower, and no benefit is gained.

remember that if E is a stormsurge with its anchors deployed though, then it does work. firing 1 CFP 1, firing 2 CFP2, etc.

and remember that the ITC poll was biased against tau players when it was released.

But Stormsurges are GMC . while they may fire each weapon to different targets they still do it during ONE shooting attack. so he can't be part of different CFP actions. Different story if the Storm surge is anchored an has two shooting attacks available.

 _ghost_ wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doesn't work.

For Coordinated Firepower to apply, your units need to fire as one unit, ergo simultaneously.

However, while units A+B+E can shoot simultaneously at target X and have part of unit E shoot at target Y, units C and D that are not part of that shooting must wait for that shooting to be complete, and only then fire upon unit Y, at that point E's portion already finished, meaning only C+D coordinate firepower, and no benefit is gained.

remember that if E is a stormsurge with its anchors deployed though, then it does work. firing 1 CFP 1, firing 2 CFP2, etc.

and remember that the ITC poll was biased against tau players when it was released.

But Stormsurges are GMC . while they may fire each weapon to different targets they still do it during ONE shooting attack. so he can't be part of different CFP actions. Different story if the Storm surge is anchored an has two shooting attacks available.

Exactly, stormsurge shoots at separate targets, but all shots are made "at once"
Before another unit (or units) start shooting, every currently shooting unit need to finish every single one of their shots.

 _ghost_ wrote:
Different story if the Storm surge is anchored an has two shooting attacks available.

what did you think I was talking about?

 _ghost_ wrote:
But Stormsurges are GMC . while they may fire each weapon to different targets they still do it during ONE shooting attack

You know, this was actually a question of mine earlier in this thread. If I equip an EWO and fire some of the weapons at incoming units, can I still use the 'fire each weapon at a different target' firing mode?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 CKO wrote:
With the Dawn Blade Contingent the way Killing Blow is worded it seems like it isn't restricted to just units from the formation or am I reading it wrong?

Hu, weird, I guess they do? Other Decurion rules state the specific detachment in them, but this one is just everyone?

That being said, getting the second Warlord Trait on a shooting Commander lets you probably melt any Monstrous creatures since you re-roll to hit and to wound, while probably running something like Plasma or CIBs. Does Monster Hunter work against GMCs? If so, what's the math on 3 suits plus a Commander all rocking double Plasma or double CiB to just wipe out a Wraith Knight?

Heh. And here I was considering taking multiple DBCs so as to select multiple (1 each) units.

 carldooley wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Different story if the Storm surge is anchored an has two shooting attacks available.

what did you think I was talking about?

Sorry. i managed to over read half of what you said. especially the anchored part.

 carldooley wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
But Stormsurges are GMC . while they may fire each weapon to different targets they still do it during ONE shooting attack

You know, this was actually a question of mine earlier in this thread. If I equip an EWO and fire some of the weapons at incoming units, can I still use the 'fire each weapon at a different target' firing mode?

 _ghost_ wrote:
Sorry.

careful. people might think that you are an actual person.

 carldooley wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Different story if the Storm surge is anchored an has two shooting attacks available.

what did you think I was talking about?

 _ghost_ wrote:
But Stormsurges are GMC . while they may fire each weapon to different targets they still do it during ONE shooting attack

You know, this was actually a question of mine earlier in this thread. If I equip an EWO and fire some of the weapons at incoming units, can I still use the 'fire each weapon at a different target' firing mode?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 CKO wrote:
With the Dawn Blade Contingent the way Killing Blow is worded it seems like it isn't restricted to just units from the formation or am I reading it wrong?

Hu, weird, I guess they do? Other Decurion rules state the specific detachment in them, but this one is just everyone?

That being said, getting the second Warlord Trait on a shooting Commander lets you probably melt any Monstrous creatures since you re-roll to hit and to wound, while probably running something like Plasma or CIBs. Does Monster Hunter work against GMCs? If so, what's the math on 3 suits plus a Commander all rocking double Plasma or double CiB to just wipe out a Wraith Knight?

Heh. And here I was considering taking multiple DBCs so as to select multiple (1 each) units.

I'm looking at two units of one with Meltas, and then a unit of three with a Commander carrying Plasmas and the Overwatch buff. That feels like a solid amount of fire power and options, along with at least an ok trait thanks to the re-roll on it. Also a Riptide and three HYMP broadsides.

However, I can see taking two Ret Cads for six Relentless Broadsides and two Riptides, while making one Commander a Mark'O and the other a missile-Mark'O commander, that way you can join him with drones or broadsides based on the trait. Though that does force you into six solo suits you have to find uses for.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Though that does force you into six solo suits you have to find uses for.

if you are taking multiple detachments, you likely aren't going to be taking fire warriors. Give em all dual burst cannons.

In my initial idea, I was going to run a mark'o with a marker drone unit from a drone net, for BS5 interceptor.

Remember that all you need for the warlord selection is a character designation - 10 pts that way to maybe make an alternate warlord could be worth it. After all in my example above, my opponent is going to have plenty of incentive to target the unit. I don't want them to possibly get a point for slaying my warlord as well.

Six solo suits is exactly what you want. MSU Crisis, disrupting your opponent's plan by being small, dangerous targets the can't be ignored.

SJ

Don't get me wrong, solo suits aren't terrible, it's just that you have as many as you do, and with the amount of broadsides you have it's not like you want to take more than solos, which makes it harder to outfit them since you won't be hitting critical mass of fire.

As for what I'd run, well I wouldn't go with Burst Cannons, you're not running Fire Warriors but you have a ton of shots from Broadsides, and two Riptides which means either double pie plate, or pie plate plus up to 12 super burst cannon rending shots.

That being said, I'd take two or so Melta suits, on being twin linked and one being normal on each, making them tank drop hunters, maybe even three. Then I'd take the others with Missile Pods and maybe even Stim, though that's unlikely, and use them to camp objectives while providing a few missile shots on whatever.

The best Warlord Trait with this build would probably be number six, Broadsides are already twin linked, but giving them Shred with a missile commander results in 24 twin linked Shred shots, and then 4 more none twin linked shred shots. That'll probably melt anything you really target. Throw in some Missile drones with a Drone Net and oh my that's just terrifying with Shred.

Warlord trait number 5 isn't bad either, let's you reserve your suits more, though double Ret with max Broadsides and min Suits means you can deploy much more easily without wanting to use Low Altitude, though it's always an option.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Six solo suits is exactly what you want. MSU Crisis, disrupting your opponent's plan by being small, dangerous targets the can't be ignored.

SJ

Like Nurgle Mutilators. hehehe. Couldn't resist.

Tried to mess around with multiple Cores to just bring a gakton of MSU but now that i actually try to make a list for it instead of thinking about it, kinda impossible in 2k or less games lol. The requirement of 1 Aux choice kinda prevents it.

Though i did come up with this:



The random seeker missile is because i had 8 points left over and nowhere to put it lol.

Everything is an independent unit but because of Hunter Contingent giving me Coordinated Fire they behave like a unit anyway, granting the bonus BS, shared ML, and act totally independently elsewise so no leadership problems or high RoF weapon problems whatsoever. It does let the opponent choose his target though.

Could technically remove the Pathfinders and the random Seeker to add a third Broadside to finish the trio. But something tells me even with Coord Fire only have 6 markerlights in the army is a baaaad idea lol

Strongly recommend changing Counterfire out for Advanced Targeting System.

eh, Counterfire has won me games a lot more than being able to snipe out a heavy weapons gun. Its the sole reason a squad of 5 Wraiths didnt get their charge on me last game, i rolled a ton of 5s lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
eh, Counterfire has won me games a lot more than being able to snipe out a heavy weapons gun. Its the sole reason a squad of 5 Wraiths didnt get their charge on me last game, i rolled a ton of 5s lol.

Maybe. Just a recommendation. There are deathstars that cannot afford to lose a key member. i like to see that they lose that key member.

True, but i cant even think of a deathstar that has such a model that isnt an IC anyway with 2+ LoS (still dont get why the hell thats legal...should at least cut the chance down to a 4+ for ICs and 6+ for Characters)