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I hope they give fse, nice Sig. Systems on par with the tau empire. Or atleast add armour +1t and better save.

arthorn wrote:
I hope they give fse, nice Sig. Systems on par with the tau empire. Or atleast add armour +1t and better save.

I'd love to see a viable melee kit. Right now only Commanders can viably melee, yet with only a single sig system (not including Farsight). The ability to outfit a 'vre with a WS bonus and a power weapon would be a great meta changer.

SJ

Yeah i'd really love crisis suits with powersword-type gear. Maybe a support system to improve their WS so its either WS2 + S5 AP3 attacks + Invul or Stims, or WS4 and no Invul or Stims.

That and i hope the price of the fusion cutter thing goes down. Its 50 damn points! 20pts for a twinlinked fusion then 30 on top of that to make it the melee weapon variant. Ouch.
Even if im reading it wrong and it literally replaces the twinlinked fusion, cost included, its still pricy since it can potentially go away and no non-ICs with melee that isnt an MC to work with. Crisis suits are S5 2A base, which isnt bad, but AP- and not even AP4 access kinda sucks.

Im a huge Gundam-esk (not gundam specifically but i love the exo-suit mentality for Mechs more than i like the Mechwarrior idea) fan so i'd be fine sacrificing my nasty guns in exchange for assaulty suits lol. Even if its not competitive but just viable, i'd do it.
I actually thought about outfitting one of my riptides with a giant blade just because it'd look cool as hell, even though theres no counts-as rule i could use it as.

I've been playing around with Farsight and a Fusion Blade Commander for a bit now, and just having a option to let an upgrade character taking a non-sig Onager with a +2 WS would be a welcome addition.

SJ

Do yous think taking a Ghostkeel Wing is worth it for the defensive buffs it brings? Thinking of rocking them with my Mech Tau, has some nice synergy with the disruption pods on paper.

Currently musing on a core force of an Ethereal, two 5 man breacher squads in D'fishes with Disruption pods, 3 Skyrays with D'pods and a Ghostkeel wing. Keep the Ghostkeels with the Devilfishes for a 2+jink. Deploy in a castle to give the Skyrays the improved cover save 1st turn.

That is about 1155pts with the additional toys on the Ghostkeels (EWO, TL Fusion).

What is making me hesitant is ignore cover is a thing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah i'd really love crisis suits with powersword-type gear. Maybe a support system to improve their WS so its either WS2 + S5 AP3 attacks + Invul or Stims, or WS4 and no Invul or Stims.

That and i hope the price of the fusion cutter thing goes down. Its 50 damn points! 20pts for a twinlinked fusion then 30 on top of that to make it the melee weapon variant. Ouch.
Even if im reading it wrong and it literally replaces the twinlinked fusion, cost included, its still pricy since it can potentially go away and no non-ICs with melee that isnt an MC to work with. Crisis suits are S5 2A base, which isnt bad, but AP- and not even AP4 access kinda sucks.

Im a huge Gundam-esk (not gundam specifically but i love the exo-suit mentality for Mechs more than i like the Mechwarrior idea) fan so i'd be fine sacrificing my nasty guns in exchange for assaulty suits lol. Even if its not competitive but just viable, i'd do it.
I actually thought about outfitting one of my riptides with a giant blade just because it'd look cool as hell, even though theres no counts-as rule i could use it as.

maybe game the burna boy thing? if they fire their burnas they are flamers. if they don't fire their burnas, they have power weapons.

Its just 30 points the fusion blade, why would you pay 50?

I hope they will make CC a bit more viable but only on IC not on normal suits since that would remove one of the weaknesses we have left.

arthorn wrote:
Its just 30 points the fusion blade, why would you pay 50?

I hope they will make CC a bit more viable but only on IC not on normal suits since that would remove one of the weaknesses we have left.

You have to buy a twinlinked Fusion Blaster to be able to buy the Fusion Blade. So 20+30=50.

Which is a bit silly as it means you are paying 30 points purely for the melee profile, which has a 1/6 chance of breaking your entire weapon at the end of every assault phase you use it, potentially leaving your commander with nothing.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

arthorn wrote:
Its just 30 points the fusion blade, why would you pay 50?

I hope they will make CC a bit more viable but only on IC not on normal suits since that would remove one of the weaknesses we have left.

You have to buy a twinlinked Fusion Blaster to be able to buy the Fusion Blade. So 20+30=50.

Which is a bit silly as it means you are paying 30 points purely for the melee profile, which has a 1/6 chance of breaking your entire weapon at the end of every assault phase you use it, potentially leaving your commander with nothing.

But it's also a str 8 ap 1 armour bane weapon that strikes at initiative. Not even the thunder hammer boasts that profile.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

arthorn wrote:
Its just 30 points the fusion blade, why would you pay 50?

I hope they will make CC a bit more viable but only on IC not on normal suits since that would remove one of the weaknesses we have left.

You have to buy a twinlinked Fusion Blaster to be able to buy the Fusion Blade. So 20+30=50.

Which is a bit silly as it means you are paying 30 points purely for the melee profile, which has a 1/6 chance of breaking your entire weapon at the end of every assault phase you use it, potentially leaving your commander with nothing.

But it's also a str 8 ap 1 armour bane weapon that strikes at initiative. Not even the thunder hammer boasts that profile.

But most models wielding a thunder hammer will have better than WS4 and I3 (or at least their buddies will) with a 3+ save (and maybe a 4++)

What's the Necron Warscythe profile? S+2, AP2, Armourbane isn't it? So it loses 1S and 1AP but can be on a faster, tougher model with a higher WS and won't ever break. And it costs 10 points less than the Fusion Blade upgrade on its own and 30 points less than the full, actual cost of the Fusion Blade.

There are only very rare situations where buying the Fusion Blade will serve you better than just buying 2 fusion blasters. If you're within range to charge then you're within double-pen melta range. Having those two shots over 1 means you are much more likely to kill a vehicle in shooting and if not you can still assault it and hit rear armour with S5, which can take out Rear Armour 10 vehicles reasonably well if all you have to do is take off a hull point.

Yes, but the mere fact you had to but the TL fusion beforehand, taking 2 item slots on someone already BS5 makes it very, very pricy.

Its a good weapon. amazing even. but just have too much requirements. 2 slots and 50 points for a TL fusion gun you can use in melee (and might brake when you do)

What would you guys think would be a good pairing to go with the Retaliation Cadre? Thinking of running it and maybe another formation for the Trios Tournament at Nova. Drone Network would be sweet as it would give me some pretty good marker support, and fits my theme of an all suit (Farsight Enclaves) army. Riptide Wing and Optimised Stealth Cadre also seem good. So many options!

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
What would you guys think would be a good pairing to go with the Retaliation Cadre? Thinking of running it and maybe another formation for the Trios Tournament at Nova. Drone Network would be sweet as it would give me some pretty good marker support, and fits my theme of an all suit (Farsight Enclaves) army. Riptide Wing and Optimised Stealth Cadre also seem good. So many options!

Ranged Support Cadre, if you're sticking with FSE and the Dawnblade Contingent. People do not expect to get hit by HYMPs at the max range--for Overwatch no less!
The Rapid Insertion Force is also a pretty solid choice, allowing Crisis Suits/Riptides to Deep Strike within 6" of the Formation's Stealth Suits to not scatter and count ALL their weapons as twin-linked for that Shooting phase.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
What would you guys think would be a good pairing to go with the Retaliation Cadre? Thinking of running it and maybe another formation for the Trios Tournament at Nova. Drone Network would be sweet as it would give me some pretty good marker support, and fits my theme of an all suit (Farsight Enclaves) army. Riptide Wing and Optimised Stealth Cadre also seem good. So many options!

Optimized Stealth Cadre gives you two Stealth squads that can take beacon as well as the always awesome Ghostkeel, adding two spots you can arrive at without scatter. Works great for TE, still workers great for FSE. Take a Drone-Net as your auxiliary.

SJ

Ok so the list that I'm constructing right now (literally putting the last model together lol) is he following:

Commander (Iridium, drone controller, stim injector)

2 5 min strike teams

9 marker drones

3 man ghostkeel squad (1 fusion, 2 burst cannon, all ion raker, all ewo, target lock on fusion)

Stormsurge (pulse driver cannon, ewo, shield, ats)

OSC:

3 man ghostkeel squad, equipped as above but with ats on one of the ion rakers)

2 3 man stealth squads (1 target lock fusion each)

Has anyone had any experience running a list similar to this? Looking to avoid some pitfalls before I step in them hopefully. I also wonder if I have enough/durable enough markerlights

Ive used the ghostkeel with a Stormsurge. it was succesful.

Add two drones to commander, its cheaper, and drop two from the drone unit.

Also... Highly suggest you make room for a second Markerlight source. personal favorite: 3 Firesight Marksman. Great accuracy and of course easier to defend.

I like Ghostkeels a bunch, so I'm betting your plan will work out. 3 things I see as areas for potential improvement:

1) Unless your tournament has a 2-formation limit, I can't think of much reason to not split the CAD Ghostkeels off into a Ghostkeel Wing. You might as well get the Stealth bubbles and potential BS bonus if you're spending the points, either way.

2) That commander is prohibitively expensive for a weaponless Mark'O. I'd either drop a couple marker drones so he can have missile pods (or whatever) or punt on the Mark'O idea entirely in favor of a Drone Net. The latter gives you a bit more flexibility with your lights, so that's probably what I would choose.

3) You have zero flyer control. You don't need a whole lot, but I'd at least try to fit in a VT on one of the OSC Ghostkeels. With the numerous formation buffs, that should be sufficient.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I like Ghostkeels a bunch, so I'm betting your plan will work out. 3 things I see as areas for potential improvement:

1) Unless your tournament has a 2-formation limit, I can't think of much reason to not split the CAD Ghostkeels off into a Ghostkeel Wing. You might as well get the Stealth bubbles and potential BS bonus if you're spending the points, either way.

2) That commander is prohibitively expensive for a weaponless Mark'O. I'd either drop a couple marker drones so he can have missile pods (or whatever) or punt on the Mark'O idea entirely in favor of a Drone Net. The latter gives you a bit more flexibility with your lights, so that's probably what I would choose.

3) You have zero flyer control. You don't need a whole lot, but I'd at least try to fit in a VT on one of the OSC Ghostkeels. With the numerous formation buffs, that should be sufficient.

No his plan is to use the Mark'O to make the Masrkerlights never miss, ever.

9 Drones hitting 5/6 of the time generates fewer hits than 16 drones hitting 1/2 the time. In his list, the former costs about 50 points more, too.

 luke1705 wrote:

Spoiler:

Ok so the list that I'm constructing right now (literally putting the last model together lol) is he following:

Commander (Iridium, drone controller, stim injector)

2 5 min strike teams

9 marker drones

3 man ghostkeel squad (1 fusion, 2 burst cannon, all ion raker, all ewo, target lock on fusion)

Stormsurge (pulse driver cannon, ewo, shield, ats)

OSC:

3 man ghostkeel squad, equipped as above but with ats on one of the ion rakers)

2 3 man stealth squads (1 target lock fusion each)

Has anyone had any experience running a list similar to this? Looking to avoid some pitfalls before I step in them hopefully. I also wonder if I have enough/durable enough markerlights

Not sure if you have mentioned it but you are very close to a proper Hunter Contingent so that could be another idea to follow. It will reduce your dependency on markerlights a bit and create extremely beneficial buffs for the whole army.

MilkmanAl wrote:
9 Drones hitting 5/6 of the time generates fewer hits than 16 drones hitting 1/2 the time. In his list, the former costs about 50 points more, too.

Cant protect the drones the same though. Thats the key.

I disagree. I'd rather have 16 drones that can jink and go to ground than 9 normal drones with my warlord out front getting blasted. They're also split up into 4 units, so they can't get massacred all at once by an intense round of shooting. On the contrary, I'd argue that the Drone Network options offers quite a lot more durability.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I disagree. I'd rather have 16 drones that can jink and go to ground than 9 normal drones with my warlord out front getting blasted. They're also split up into 4 units, so they can't get massacred all at once by an intense round of shooting. On the contrary, I'd argue that the Drone Network options offers quite a lot more durability.

Then do it. i wouldn't. And he doesnt have to be your warlord. obviously.

The Commander is the only character in his list, so unless I'm missing something, that does have to be his warlord.

I'm surprised you're sticking with the list as presented. You're always promoting tactical flexibility and generalship and whatnot, so why is the choice that's, cheaper, (arguably) more durable, more flexible, and better at what it's supposed to do not your choice? I'm not seeing it.

MilkmanAl wrote:
The Commander is the only character in his list, so unless I'm missing something, that does have to be his warlord.

I'm surprised you're sticking with the list as presented. You're always promoting tactical flexibility and generalship and whatnot, so why is the choice that's, cheaper, (arguably) more durable, more flexible, and better at what it's supposed to do not your choice? I'm not seeing it.

But... it doesnt actually. He can have anyone be his warlord. So ...

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I actually don't see another way to fit these units in a different list with the drone net (don't care about 2 source format, but I do want to keep it to 3). In order to get the stormsurge, I either need to have a CAD or a hunter contingent, both of which necessitate the commander and TBH I don't see a better use for him. (Buying the two cheaper drones is great though)

You're right that the Mark'O is pretty expensive, but he does give a lot of durability to the drone squad. T5, 2+ and FNP, plus a cover save pretty much always....going to take a while to get through 4 wounds.

I really don't like the ghostkeel wing actually. I find the benefits to be underwhelming and you can only activate the holophoton countermeasures once for each unit, which means that any ghostkeel can be focused down 2 units sooner, and I can't juggle wounds in between turns. Big loss if you ask me. Gaining stealth is nice but....eh. And the ballistic skill bonus is silly. The whole squad is natively BS 4 with a 3 man unit, and you get to have a single markerlight buff all of them.

I could make my warlord one of the stealth suit characters, which I think is what I would probably rather do. That way, it's not the character that I plan on tanking wounds with and you pretty much always will have to go through 2+ cover (and deal with some angry ghostkeels nearby). Plus then maybe you make a mistake and don't shoot at the drone squad to try and get warlord.

I will definitely try out the hunter contingent. Would like to be able to put the commander into a squad as a proper buffmander in that case, but I could tweak it around probably. I think I would have to ditch a ghostkeel to make that happen though.

You're right about having a velocity tracker somewhere in there. Probably on the dude in the OSC with the fusion as his secondary gun.

Yip. Don't have to make him your warlord. I imagine MilkmanAI just wasn't aware of it.

I mean, I only have two other characters. I had to double check to make sure myself

If ONLY the ghostkeel could have a character in the unit....hot dog. Like even just let me put buffmander in there!

Characters dont have to be the Warlord. Interestingly.

 Jancoran wrote:
Characters dont have to be the Warlord. Interestingly.

I'll double check the rulebook but if you have one in your army, then one does IIRC.

I have checked and that is the case. Now, if I created an army with no characters, then I totally could make my stormsurge my warlord, or let a ghostkeel with FNP do the dirty.

WAIT A SECOND. I was thinking that my stealth suits natively had a character in them, but actually I need to pay 10 points to make them a character (and I'm not about that life).

So actually, I would have no character models if I just got rid of the commander....hmmm this may bear some thinking. I wouldn't be able to field a stormsurge though without the commander. Right? Someone tell me how to field a bound list with a stormsurge (only 1 unit of stormsurges) without a character model. Go!