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Y'Vahra is totally awesome. The swoop move combined with the ability to handily assassinate pretty much anything short of a Wraithknight is really tough for most people to handle. If your opponent has any idea how good it is, he'll probably make it die fast, though, so watch out! Get your licks in early.

The R'Varna is mediocre, in my opinion. It'll never die, but you aren't exactly starving for high-strength, medium AP weaponry. Like Grizz said, it's not really an improvement over a regular old IA Riptide, which has the notable benefit of ignoring most of those large targets' armor, instead of just adding in an extra wound to save.

 Bryan01 wrote:
Last time we played it was a draigo star, so was surprised to face some vanilla blood angels! A crisis star and OSC, backed up by skyrays, might not be uber competitive, but enough to overpower older books. Anyone face this issue and how do you deal with it?

I offered to let my opponent choose the mission and placed all but one objective each in the midfield. Without having alternative models on hand, best I could really do.

I have the same problem with my own Tau. They are just so powerful that some armies (like Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines) really can't compete with them. I guess maybe one way would be to take subpar formations (like the Allied Advance Cadre or the one from the start collecting set) and just try to limit the good stuff. I had put together a list using a CAD and the start collecting formation that was slightly less crazy, but to me it still looked like it would just eat the older armies.

How are people finding Broadsides this edition? Are they worth including in an army list against less mech-oriented armies? My regular opponents are KDK/CSM.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
How are people finding Broadsides this edition? Are they worth including in an army list against less mech-oriented armies? My regular opponents are KDK/CSM.

As the soviets famously embraced, Quantity has a quality all its own. The Broadsides can put out a ton of very accurate shots, so I mean... Even against Hordes its good. Against Flyers its good. Against light armor its good, against moderately armored troops its good and just vie the STR on all its weapons, its good against the uber tough stuff to force them to start having to roll those saves, no matter how heinously good those saves might be. its a swiss army knife type of unit.

I think it is better in armies that are more MSU than the current meta is seeing. The Riptide Wings and what not squeeze the list so mightily and also replace the firepower so convincingly that it really becomes an afterthought. But if you're not wanting to purchase the Riptides to play that way, then Broadsides are quite a good choice.

I personally still like them for deployment shenanigans. they also have that interesting thing where you can make them deep strike and they are relentless! So there are some really good ways to use them in conjunction with other things. The Infiltration Cadre with that particular formation makes a lot of sense here again if you do not want to play the meta-preferred Riptide Wings.

So yeah I would say that it's really just a matter of choice. You can get 6 wounds worth of Broadsides for a little more than five wounds of Riptides. Not as tough, but a LOT more shots. There's a tradeoff but it might be a good one.

i have enough Broadsides to go ballz out on them but i dont because i enjoy my sneaky armies too much I guess. but thats no reflection on the value fo the Broadside, just a strategic preference. They are definitely still good.

Given the strengths and weaknesses of Broadsides, would it be worthwhile to take the full amount of Missile Drones and a Buffmander with Drone Controller for them? Puretide Chip to give them Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter, MSS to give them Ignores cover, Drone Controller for that sweet BS5 on the missile drones. Sounds like a really amazing unit to me! Pity I don't actually own any Broadsides, although I'm sure I could call on a friend of mine who does...

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Drone Controller for that sweet BS5 on the missile drones.

Yes.
Please do this. **edit** meant to end with \sarcasm**edit**

The buffmander is wasted in a broadside unit. Regardless of which build you use, all the weapons are twin linked, so the C&C node is going to be wasted. One of the weapons (SMS) ignores cover natively, and requires no LOS so the MSS is wasted too.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Given the strengths and weaknesses of Broadsides, would it be worthwhile to take the full amount of Missile Drones and a Buffmander with Drone Controller for them? Puretide Chip to give them Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter, MSS to give them Ignores cover, Drone Controller for that sweet BS5 on the missile drones. Sounds like a really amazing unit to me! Pity I don't actually own any Broadsides, although I'm sure I could call on a friend of mine who does...

The misile Drones seem like a little too much in a lot of cases. Same amount of overkill might get you the Markerlights you need and want to hit most of the time and ignore cover anyways!

I'd rather have that utility separate, especially when they are already festooned with TL weapons, some of which ALREADY ignore cover. Just food for thought. I like my buffmander to protect the separate unit of marker drones and force more target issues.

 carldooley wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Drone Controller for that sweet BS5 on the missile drones.

Yes.
Please do this.

Spoiler:

Then delete the entry on P.122 of the Codex that limits Drone Controllers to buffing the BS of Gun, Marker, and Sniper Drones.

**edit** meant to end with \sarcasm**edit**

The buffmander is wasted in a broadside unit. Regardless of which build you use, all the weapons are twin linked, so the C&C node is going to be wasted. One of the weapons (SMS) ignores cover natively, and requires no LOS so the MSS is wasted too.

Whoops, you're right. It doesn't help missile drones. I still think Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter is pretty badass on S7 weapons. Good for taking on Knights and stuff. But there are definitely better options for that kind of thing. Point taken.

Looking at the SMS entry in the 7E codex, I can't find the points cost in any of the wargear lists. Anyone know where I can find it?

SMS cost changes depending upon who it's for its listed under the units what can take them

Ah, if only the SMS was a standard weapon choice. I'd gladly field a horde of dual SMS suits. Yes, please!

MilkmanAl wrote:
Ah, if only the SMS was a standard weapon choice. I'd gladly field a horde of dual SMS suits. Yes, please!

Oh my. That would be the end of Fire Warriors as we know them.

All we need now is a S9 with high rate of fire weapon: S5 for the little ones, S7 for the medium ones and S9 for the big ones. AP3, of course.

I just bought a fully-painted Tau army with roughly ~2,000 to 2,500 points worth of models. It was built for 6th edition, so I thought it might be fun to try to optimize it for a unique 7th edition army that is still good. I am a pretty savvy 40k player, and I've started looking at the Montka and Kauyon books, but I admit that I don't understand Tau at all and that all those options for detachments, formations, special drones, and different signature systems are overwhelming. Could someone please help me figure out a fun, strong 1850 list based on what I have?

The models are:

-2x commanders (one with double plasma, one counts-as whatever)
-Farsight and Shadowsong, if I want to use them
-3x riptides (2 ion cannon, 1 burst cannon)
-3x double melta crisis suits, 5x double plasma crisis suits
-6x broadsides with all high yield and smart missiles
-11x kroot + another 1x krot + 2x kroot riding forgeworld kroot mounts + 2x kroot hounds
-8x converted pathfinders, option to build more of them
-1x special drone + 6x donres + another 4x drones
-1x skyray missile ship


From what little I understand, I was thinking something like:
Detachment 1: Riptide Wing (montka for the earth caste pilot array on the burst cannon riptide?) [3x riptides]
Detachment 2: Hunter Contingent [1 commander + 3x 10-man kroot squads + 2x 4-man pathfinder teams + + 1x 3-man melta crisis suit squad + 3x 2-man broadside teams + 2x 4-man marker drone squads ala drone networks]
Detachment 3: Combined Arms [Farsight warlord + 3x 2-man objective-secured plasma suit squads + 1x skyray missile ship + aegis line with comms relay]

Not sure how many points all that is or what upgrades to buy everything, but it seems in the ballpark of 1850? I was thinking that I have a lot of marker lights, I can used coordinated firepower + simo markerlight on a deathstar unit for broadside fire (remove invisibility with enough BS boost), Farsight can no-scatter with the melta squad, the 3 plasma squads go where I need them to grab objective or shoot weak backline stuff, kroot either screen assaults or outflanks, riptides double-tap every round and hopefully kill everything. Not sure about normal systems or signature systems or special drones for tricks.

As in the newest books, Riptides cannot take the ECPA... I hope the Tau FAQ will let they take it again.

So what are opinions of Strike Teams taking Guardian Drones and the DS8 Tactical Support Turret? With the DS8, would the missile pod or smart missile system work better? Are there other drones other good drones other than the Guardian Drone for Strike Teams with pulse rifles?

 BrotherGecko wrote:
So what are opinions of Strike Teams taking Guardian Drones and the DS8 Tactical Support Turret? With the DS8, would the missile pod or smart missile system work better? Are there other drones other good drones other than the Guardian Drone for Strike Teams with pulse rifles?

I have yet to take the Turrets with a Fire Warrior team, mainly because they are such a small part of my game plan in normal situations. But I am quite interested to hear whether others are making any extensive use of them.

The two opponents who used them against me armed them with Smart Missiles and the ignores cover of course is a very good thing to have. In both games, i was very hard pressed by it (in both games i was playing mechanized Adepta Sororitas and so the ignores line of sight thing took a heavy toll on my forces).

 BrotherGecko wrote:
So what are opinions of Strike Teams taking Guardian Drones and the DS8 Tactical Support Turret? With the DS8, would the missile pod or smart missile system work better? Are there other drones other good drones other than the Guardian Drone for Strike Teams with pulse rifles?

I personally would go with sms as it is getting you more of the same type of shooting as the rest of the unit. Often you don't want to be firing missile pods at the same target as pulse rifles so in those situations you would have to shoot either weapon at a subpar target. With sms you don't have that issue and gain some nice ignores cover/los shots

6++ is pretty little. I wouldn't spend points for the sarge + drone.
the turret, on the other hand, is pretty nice for objective camping FWs

Related to my above post, what are the best upgrades / drones to put with a commander if you're attaching him to a big Farsight unit of no-scatter crisis suits?

 Vector Strike wrote:
6++ is pretty little. I wouldn't spend points for the sarge + drone.
the turret, on the other hand, is pretty nice for objective camping FWs

Is a Shas'ui w/ markerlight still a thing on strike teams?
I could see the guardian not being all that worth it, maybe with Breachers then.

So then avoid drones on Strike Teams is what I'm getting.

I use the DS8 turret with missiles sometimes. Works good for Strike teams camping in rear objectives, giving them a small chance to punch above their weight with S7 shots. The SMS is a good choice too, though, for the reasons others have stated. As for the Guardian Drone, I only ever take it with Breachers, Breachers get a 5++ from it, whereas Strikers only get a 6++.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
6++ is pretty little. I wouldn't spend points for the sarge + drone.
the turret, on the other hand, is pretty nice for objective camping FWs

Is a Shas'ui w/ markerlight still a thing on strike teams?
I could see the guardian not being all that worth it, maybe with Breachers then.

So then avoid drones on Strike Teams is what I'm getting.

Yep, you can get the 'ui with markerlight. I don't think it's worth it, though - with the Drone Net formation from Mont'ka/Farsight, there's little reason to do what you asked.

Drones are really useful for people with Drone Controller (suits) or if they're free (vehicles/tidewall)

Thanks for all the help so far.

Last new question but has 7th edition been friendlier to the idea of using pulse carbine fire warriors? I love the look but I am usually discouraged from doing it.

Right now I'm planning to run my strike team with a DS8 and 'ui with markerlight. It will be rear objective camping. The 2nd squad I haven't made a decision on yet.

If you intend to camp rear objectives with your Fire Warriors, take Pulse Rifles. The 30" range lets you hit things from further away than even Space Marines can reach. I can't think of any reason to ever take Carbines, myself. Pinning is nice, but the short range is not so nice. If I want Fire Warriors to get close to the enemy, I'll pretty much always just take Breachers, as their weapons are AP3 up close.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Thanks for all the help so far.

Last new question but has 7th edition been friendlier to the idea of using pulse carbine fire warriors? I love the look but I am usually discouraged from doing it.

Right now I'm planning to run my strike team with a DS8 and 'ui with markerlight. It will be rear objective camping. The 2nd squad I haven't made a decision on yet.

Pulse carbines are not bad, at all.

But when it comes down to infantry works, the network gun drones is just so much superior to the carbine warriors its not even funny.

Yes, 14 PPM rather than 9PPM, but you also land 50% more hits, got higher statline, precision shots, interceptor, jetpack moves, ability to jink in case of emergency, etc.
The cost increase is further diminished when you consider the fact a carbine team is usually in a devilfish, and the drone team simply don't need one. they are far faster on foot, and can deepstrike into combat.


As for 'ui with markerlight-there is never an excuse for it. costs far too much compared to the effect. if it was networked I'd CONSIDER it, but as it is, just far more efficent to have an extra model in your dedicated marker platform.

New Barracuda - Weapons
The main gun can either be
a Heavy Burst Cannon
a Barracuda Ion Cannon
a Swiftstrike Railgun (and as the pic shows, it is closer in size to the HRR, but not quite the same)

You have the expected Missile Pods.
The turret on the back is a Decoy Drone.

The wing turrets are now a choice of either
a Long-barrelled Burst Cannon
a Long-barrelled CIB



Fellow Tau Players, how do you think these new weapons will factor into your strategies?
Do you think the HBC will have an nova type profile?
What might the Swiftstrike Railgun be like?
Same question for the LB CIB
What do you think the decoy drone will do? Invulnerable save?

Naaris wrote:
Fellow Tau Players, how do you think these new weapons will factor into your strategies?

I think this will (for me) revolve around two things:
1. Cost-Points wise, the old Barracuda was 5 more than a base Hammerhead. Slap on some Decoy Launchers and have some fun! The new one seems have more points fluctuation with all the options, but with FW, who knows? If it's still relatively inexpensive for what you get, and has the flexibility to be magnetized to fill different roles depending on the rest of the list being built, that will be akin to a flying Crisis Suit, very cool.
2. What's the ITC going to do with DftS? My FLGS uses ITC for it's houserules, so this help determine how Fliers at large are used. Although if the rumors of a new BRB are true (and the DftS rules are in it), the ITC may just be kicking the can down the road by not using it (at least in part).

Naaris wrote:
Do you think the HBC will have an nova type profile?

I doubt it, that's a very "Riptide" thing. Still a great weapon without it, if the price is right.

Naaris wrote:
What might the Swiftstrike Railgun be like?

Swiftstrike implies, to me, multiple shots.

Naaris wrote:
Same question for the LB CIB?

The LBBC was just added range, so hopefully the same here.

Naaris wrote:
What do you think the decoy drone will do? Invulnerable save?

Hopefully something more useful. The Decoy Launcher is so cheap, and guarantees not jinking on the first turn a flier shows up. An Invuln on following turns would be nice, but I'd rather see something altogether unique to the Barracuda.

Seems to me that a Riptide Wing, Drone Network, and then a Hunter Contingent with Stormsurge is the way to go for a strong, yet not uber-competitive list. Anyone have any suggestions for ditching the Hunter and going with something else though?

I think the main reason that people aren't using the Hunter Contingent extensively is that the ITC ruled that Coordinated Firepower essentially applies only to marker lights, where sharing special rules is concerned. I (and many others) interpret the rule very differently and feel it should include any special rules related to shooting. Is this broader application, a Hunter Contingent with a "Buffmander" - that is, a Commander with a MSS, C&CN, and PEN chip - is an exceptionally strong choice. With a substantial portion of your army rerolling misses and wounds/armor pen and ignoring cover, you're going to be tough to stop, and I think that's a big reason the ITC ruling went down as it did.

If you're going to use the more permissive reading of Coordinated Firepower, do your best to limit your formations to those included in the Contingent. Take full advantage of that Buffmander! Otherwise, the Hunter Contingent isn't a terribly competitive option. You'd be better served by either a Dawn Blade Contingent (with a Retaliation Cadre as your core choice) or just a plain CAD as your base.

Alternatively, you can easily compose a simple but strong army out of a few of the individual formations we have. The Optimized Stealth Cadre, Ranged Support Cadre, Riptide Wing, and Retaliation Cadre all have excellent potential. I also ran an army last weekend that exploited the Stealth bubble granted by the Ghostkeel Wing. While it lacked some of the massive dice-dumping punch of a typical Tau army, the essentially army-wide 2+ cover in the open was giving my opponent fits. I lost due to some novice tactical errors and inexperience with the list, but it has definite potential. We have a lot of viable and seemingly tournament-worthy options to work with, so go nuts.

My local group uses the watered-down rules for the Hunter Contingent, so no army-wide Buffmander shenanigans. For that reason, my preferred list is CAD (with Stormsurge)+OSC+Drone Net. It worked out pretty good for me at my Tau's last outing.