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Inside the Riptide Wing formation, they're much more deadly with the Hailfire ability. Absolute devastation vs infantry and light mech.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Inside the Riptide Wing formation, they're much more deadly with the Hailfire ability. Absolute devastation vs infantry and light mech.

I'll have to give it a try

Naaris wrote:
If you haven't given breachers a try, I would highly recommend them. 10 Str 6 AP3 shots coming from a 5 man squad devastates mech. Is this strong? I don't know. I feel like it is if you play a good tactical game. Is it tournament worthy, no probably not.

Breachers really are fun, aren't they? I personally advocate squads of more than 5 myself, as they are too easy to wipe out with just 5 dudes, plus the cost of the shas'ui and guardian drone is mitigated more on larger squads. I've been on the receiving end of a Breacher attack with my Ravenwing, lost 4 Black Knights in one volley after they used markerlights to remove my awesome rerollable jink save. Only reason I didn't lose more is because of Feel no Pain. Breachers are solid, make no mistake. They just take a bit more finesse to make them work.

On a (mostly) unrelated note, is it ever worth it to take EMP grenades on a unit? My thinking is no, partly due to the FAQ nerfing grenades in combat. Under the old rule a Strike/Breacher/Pathfinder team could down a Knight in theory in just 1 round of combat with EMP grenades. Now they can't.

I love EMP. But the new FAQ COULD screw us on that.

I for one will likely not be taking EMP unless the FAQ gets changed

EMP grenades are dead. Vehicle killing is left so fusion and plasma suits.

I love me so rail weapon action but they're so ineffective to what their fluff dictates. If only they were something like d3 wounds or hull points per hit.

It would be great to see more Railsides, hammerheads and rail pathfinders on the table.

Speaking of which I feel like a retaliation cadre formation would really make railsides with buffmander worthwhile. Especially if you had a drone net. 3 relentless HHRsides w/ plasma rifles with 6 missile drones at BS3. with tankhunters or monster hunters and ignore cover and reroll hits with 2 gun drones from the buffmander and farsight for no scatter. - 3 - str8 ap1, 4 str6 ap2 , 4 str5 ap 5, 12 str7 ap4 shots all re-rolling hits, all ignoring cover, all with tank hunter or monster hunter - no scatter deep striking in.

- Anyone run something like this? Sounds like a real deathstar killer.

I have some (n00b) questions. Breachers look fun so I was wondering if a breacher team with a devilfish + attached drones as part of a hunter contigent could get the coordinated firepower perk (without needing other units to help) if on disembarking from the devilfish, the drones becoming unattached and so becoming a separate unit from the fish making the breachers, drones and fish 3 separate units for co-coordinated firepower?

Also does co-ordinated firepower stack with supporting fire? So if 2 other units lend their fire to the overwatching unit they all get +1 BS?

Also how does one use markerlights to buff overwatch? It says in the markerlight rule for pinpoint that the bonus can be used in overwatch but markerlight tokens are removed at the end of the phase they were placed in if they weren't used but overwatch happens in the other players assault phase at which point all unused markerlights should have been removed?

 SolarCross wrote:
I have some (n00b) questions. Breachers look fun so I was wondering if a breacher team with a devilfish + attached drones as part of a hunter contigent could get the coordinated firepower perk (without needing other units to help) if on disembarking from the devilfish, the drones becoming unattached and so becoming a separate unit from the fish making the breachers, drones and fish 3 separate units for co-coordinated firepower?

Also does co-ordinated firepower stack with supporting fire? So if 2 other units lend their fire to the overwatching unit they all get +1 BS?

Also how does one use markerlights to buff overwatch? It says in the markerlight rule for pinpoint that the bonus can be used in overwatch but markerlight tokens are removed at the end of the phase they were placed in if they weren't used but overwatch happens in the other players assault phase at which point all unused markerlights should have been removed?

Your first question is a maybe. It all depends on if the drones are considered part of the hunter cadre, and I recall several debates similar revolving around daemons, so I can't really answer that part for you.

The coordinated fire does not stack with supporting fire, as coordinated fire, specifies the shooting phase

Lastly markerlights can be used in overwatch by applying those markerlights in overwatch. You can use supporting fire on pathfinders, and marker drones to overwatch markerlights on the target, and then another unit overwatches the target and can use the lights

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

The coordinated fire does not stack with supporting fire, as coordinated fire, specifies the shooting phase

As for the first part it should be yes? It all depends on iff the drones are considered part of the hunter cadre, and I recall several debates similar revolving around daemons, so I can't really answer that part for you.

Breachers can take a devilfish for a dedicated transport and the devilfish has two detachable drones. If the breachers were from the hunter cadre then surely so is their transport and its drones?

 SolarCross wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

The coordinated fire does not stack with supporting fire, as coordinated fire, specifies the shooting phase

As for the first part it should be yes? It all depends on iff the drones are considered part of the hunter cadre, and I recall several debates similar revolving around daemons, so I can't really answer that part for you.

Breachers can take a devilfish for a dedicated transport and the devilfish has two detachable drones. If the breachers were from the hunter cadre then surely so is their transport and its drones?

The transport yes, the drones however, I would say yes, but iirc similar things have been debated. I for one would definitely allow you to do it though. Also I may be completely misremembering the debates I'd seen. My instincts say yes you can use the drones, fish and breachers for supporting fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In short I believe so. you could post this in you make da call and see if anyone there has a better answer. Or I could.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright I posted the question here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693322.page

We'll either get a definitive answer or spark a debate that'll go in circles.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:


Alright I posted the question here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693322.page

We'll either get a definitive answer or spark a debate that'll go in circles.

Ok thanks for that. I'm feeling pretty confident that it should be okay at this point though.

I'm wondering how best to give a breacher team marker light support for overwatch since it seems you are right that coordinated firepower can't stack with supporting fire. I see them driving up in their fish to a MEQ squad, drones detaching from the fish and the team disembarking then all blasting the MEQs in the face with coordinated firepower. But then they are sat there inches away from the survivors and their friends with nothing but overwatch to save them from being destroyed in assault.

Somewhat hilariously the breachers weapon has the assault rule, would there ever be a time when you want to charge into cc with them though? Short ranged firepower they have but they still suck in cc.

Well if you take pathfinders as part of your core in the Hunter cadre, they can then fire overwatch with supporting fire from 12 inches instead of 6 due to "unbreakable Bonds of Comradeship." That is the trouble with breachers though, they get too close.

I want to run them in a CAD with darkstrider, with his -1 to target toughness they can ID meqs, then they can move 6 inches after overwatch before the charge is rolled. if any meqs survive the shooting phase, then charge you and they survive your overwatch they still have to roll an extra 6 inches further whatever you were originally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for charging, yes occasionally it can work out, if just to tie up an enemies important unit for a turn or two, once the breachers have served their purpose or you know they won't survive another turn just charge in and tie up an enemy unit.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:


Alright I posted the question here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/693322.page

We'll either get a definitive answer or spark a debate that'll go in circles.

Ok thanks for that. I'm feeling pretty confident that it should be okay at this point though.

I'm wondering how best to give a breacher team marker light support for overwatch since it seems you are right that coordinated firepower can't stack with supporting fire. I see them driving up in their fish to a MEQ squad, drones detaching from the fish and the team disembarking then all blasting the MEQs in the face with coordinated firepower. But then they are sat there inches away from the survivors and their friends with nothing but overwatch to save them from being destroyed in assault.

Somewhat hilariously the breachers weapon has the assault rule, would there ever be a time when you want to charge into cc with them though? Short ranged firepower they have but they still suck in cc.

Just played a game vs GK and I had a 10man breacher squad in a dfish with an ethereal and guardian drone. I was able to easily give them ML support with an infiltrating stealth squad even in overwatch (stealth team can sit behind breachers for a 3+ cover save in the open). Had a similar experience to what you described, rolled up and hopped out in str6 ap3 range, each breacher firing 3 shots, killed 2 termies and his warlord librarian, next turn he charges and i supporting fire with the stealth teams ML and get 1, causing my breachers to hit on 5.... killed 4 termies in the overwatch I doubt it will ever get as good as that, but theres potential. take out a breacher and throw darkstrider in there and you have an extremely lethal and valuable unit. I always give my ethereal a homing beacon so my boys can rescue him. Pretty much everybody forgets that he has the beacon (I tell them in the beginning that he has it and what it does) and they just get blown off the table by a no-scatter crisis drop. Also another extremely amazing combo I recently discovered by accident using the breacher/ethereal squad.. When your crisis bomb drops within 6" of the Ethereal for no scatter, all the gun drones the crisis suits bring get a bonus shot too

I can see breachers charging a weakened unit so they cant get blown off the table, with 4+ armor 5++ invul and a potential 6+ FnP from eth they can survive melee. or they can try to pop a vehicle with str6 then EMP it to finish the job (not anymore ) Hopefully GW sees how they goof'd grenades and fix emp grenades atleast,

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Well if you take pathfinders as part of your core in the Hunter cadre, they can then fire overwatch with supporting fire from 12 inches instead of 6 due to "unbreakable Bonds of Comradeship." That is the trouble with breachers though, they get too close.

I want to run them in a CAD with darkstrider, with his -1 to target toughness they can ID meqs, then they can move 6 inches after overwatch before the charge is rolled. if any meqs survive the shooting phase, then charge you and they survive your overwatch they still have to roll an extra 6 inches further whatever you were originally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for charging, yes occasionally it can work out, if just to tie up an enemies important unit for a turn or two, once the breachers have served their purpose or you know they won't survive another turn just charge in and tie up an enemy unit.

Yeah pathfinders are an option but the issue with them in regards to buffing a breacher's overwatch is that they aren't very mobile. They have scout but after that they are slow, giving them a fish also is of debatable value given the extra cost. I'm leaning towards marker drones at the moment. They can be taken in place of pathfinders in the hunter cadre, they are jet pack infantry and T4 4+ save so more mobile and durable their only downside is low BS but for buffing overwatch that doesn't matter so much...

On using a CAD with darkstrider that does look kinda powerful for killing HQ marines otherwise not so great as regular MEQs are only 1 wound anyway. Breachers can get that "move away from chargers" equivalent using the grav-inhibittor drone also without darkstrider. Though I suppose that would stack with darkstrider making the unit extra slippery. Another thing you are getting is ObSec though I suppose as a mobile short ranged assassination unit that is not such a huge benefit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dioxalyn wrote:

Just played a game vs GK and I had a 10man breacher squad in a dfish with an ethereal and guardian drone. I was able to easily give them ML support with an infiltrating stealth squad even in overwatch (stealth team can sit behind breachers for a 3+ cover save in the open). Had a similar experience to what you described, rolled up and hopped out in str6 ap3 range, each breacher firing 3 shots, killed 2 termies and his warlord librarian, next turn he charges and i supporting fire with the stealth teams ML and get 1, causing my breachers to hit on 5.... killed 4 termies in the overwatch I doubt it will ever get as good as that, but theres potential. take out a breacher and throw darkstrider in there and you have an extremely lethal and valuable unit. I always give my ethereal a homing beacon so my boys can rescue him. Pretty much everybody forgets that he has the beacon (I tell them in the beginning that he has it and what it does) and they just get blown off the table by a no-scatter crisis drop. Also another extremely amazing combo I recently discovered by accident using the breacher/ethereal squad.. When your crisis bomb drops within 6" of the Ethereal for no scatter, all the gun drones the crisis suits bring get a bonus shot too

I can see breachers charging a weakened unit so they cant get blown off the table, with 4+ armor 5++ invul and a potential 6+ FnP from eth they can survive melee. or they can try to pop a vehicle with str6 then EMP it to finish the job (not anymore ) Hopefully GW sees how they goof'd grenades and fix emp grenades atleast,

Awesome. What about Aun-shi instead of a regular ethereal? He is much better in melee and has more wounds though he doesn't have a homing beacon. Also twice the cost though..

When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

 Jancoran wrote:
When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

That is a thing that might be interesting to me. Pathfinders have other weapons and they have marker lights. Meaning for the purpose of buffing a breachers overwatch they can use their weapons in their shooting phase whilst still buffing the breachers overwatch in the other players assault phase.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

That is a thing that might be interesting to me. Pathfinders have other weapons and they have marker lights. Meaning for the purpose of buffing a breachers overwatch they can use their weapons in their shooting phase whilst still buffing the breachers overwatch in the other players assault phase.

Well here is some brainfood from yesteryear:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/11/necrons-vs-tau-empire-battle-report.html

http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/11/tau-empire-vs-eldar-battle-report.html


This is an example of how i have used the Pathfinders and EMP before. Kinda illustrates the way I have used them. I have many more battles with them used like this but these were actually available to watch.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

That is a thing that might be interesting to me. Pathfinders have other weapons and they have marker lights. Meaning for the purpose of buffing a breachers overwatch they can use their weapons in their shooting phase whilst still buffing the breachers overwatch in the other players assault phase.

But any Pathfinder who equips another weapon loses their markerlight as the ion and rail rifles replaces the pulse carbine and the markerlight. So with a minimum size squad, you are only getting one markerlight.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Well if you take pathfinders as part of your core in the Hunter cadre, they can then fire overwatch with supporting fire from 12 inches instead of 6 due to "unbreakable Bonds of Comradeship." That is the trouble with breachers though, they get too close.

I want to run them in a CAD with darkstrider, with his -1 to target toughness they can ID meqs, then they can move 6 inches after overwatch before the charge is rolled. if any meqs survive the shooting phase, then charge you and they survive your overwatch they still have to roll an extra 6 inches further whatever you were originally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for charging, yes occasionally it can work out, if just to tie up an enemies important unit for a turn or two, once the breachers have served their purpose or you know they won't survive another turn just charge in and tie up an enemy unit.

Yeah pathfinders are an option but the issue with them in regards to buffing a breacher's overwatch is that they aren't very mobile. They have scout but after that they are slow, giving them a fish also is of debatable value given the extra cost. I'm leaning towards marker drones at the moment. They can be taken in place of pathfinders in the hunter cadre, they are jet pack infantry and T4 4+ save so more mobile and durable their only downside is low BS but for buffing overwatch that doesn't matter so much...

On using a CAD with darkstrider that does look kinda powerful for killing HQ marines otherwise not so great as regular MEQs are only 1 wound anyway. Breachers can get that "move away from chargers" equivalent using the grav-inhibittor drone also without darkstrider. Though I suppose that would stack with darkstrider making the unit extra slippery. Another thing you are getting is ObSec though I suppose as a mobile short ranged assassination unit that is not such a huge benefit.

Marines themselves yes its not great for, outside of the extra slipperiness you mentioned because believe me the 3 inches you can get from the drone isn't enough. On their turn they'll just march their unit within an inch of you during movement before the charge, that way after your drone does its thing they'll only have to roll 2-4. With the inhibitor + darkstrider, that'll become an 8 at worst and a 10 at best. Also they are great at killing the multi wound units from other factions regardless of armor saves due to the sheer number of shots. I play an ork player often and I sorta just want to blow up his MANz.

As for the pathfinders vs drones, I do prefer drones myself, but I couldn't remember if they could be taken in the core hunter cadre formation, which grants supporting fire up to 12 inches instead of just 6. Looking at my book now I see they can be taken which would make them my preferred choice. I myself don't run a hunter cadre so I couldn't remember all of it.

spect_spidey wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

That is a thing that might be interesting to me. Pathfinders have other weapons and they have marker lights. Meaning for the purpose of buffing a breachers overwatch they can use their weapons in their shooting phase whilst still buffing the breachers overwatch in the other players assault phase.

But any Pathfinder who equips another weapon loses their markerlight as the ion and rail rifles replaces the pulse carbine and the markerlight. So with a minimum size squad, you are only getting one markerlight.

You wouldn't use them for Markerlights. The Pathfinders outflnank with their drones and strike the enemy backfield hard. So the loss of Markerlights for Rai; Rifles is pretty immaterial.

In my list i use a Drone swarm and Firesight Marksmen as my Markerlight caddies, and they assist the Pathfinders, Riptides and such in their kill missions.

 Jancoran wrote:

spect_spidey wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
When i use my Pathfinders as weapons (and i do) I give them a Devilfish for sure. Worth it. its mobile cover plus if the enemy is the right kind, they can actually be deployed separate from the unit, though this is kind of a more rare use of the Devifish to be sure in my universe.

But i have written before on how scary a unit of Pathfinders can be and i think there is great merit in their use on offense. Unless they are in my Infiltration Cadre, I rarely even use the markerlights they carry.

That is a thing that might be interesting to me. Pathfinders have other weapons and they have marker lights. Meaning for the purpose of buffing a breachers overwatch they can use their weapons in their shooting phase whilst still buffing the breachers overwatch in the other players assault phase.

But any Pathfinder who equips another weapon loses their markerlight as the ion and rail rifles replaces the pulse carbine and the markerlight. So with a minimum size squad, you are only getting one markerlight.

You wouldn't use them for Markerlights. The Pathfinders outflnank with their drones and strike the enemy backfield hard. So the loss of Markerlights for Rai; Rifles is pretty immaterial.

In my list i use a Drone swarm and Firesight Marksmen as my Markerlight caddies, and they assist the Pathfinders, Riptides and such in their kill missions.

I understand what you are saying , but the post I was replying to was stating use other weapons in shooting and markerlights in overwatch. This is only possible for any pathfinders that are not upgraded with ion or rail rifles since those weapons replace the markerlight. Also breachers cannot have the grav inhibitor drone. That drone is available to pathfinders only. And the current discussion was regarding using breachers with pathfinder support.

spect_spidey wrote:

I understand what you are saying , but the post I was replying to was stating use other weapons in shooting and markerlights in overwatch. This is only possible for any pathfinders that are not upgraded with ion or rail rifles since those weapons replace the markerlight. Also breachers cannot have the grav inhibitor drone. That drone is available to pathfinders only. And the current discussion was regarding using breachers with pathfinder support.

I was thinking of the pathfinder's pulse carbines rather than the special weapons.

Point taken on the grav inhibtor drone but it doesn't matter anyway as it is crap, the best defence against assault for a hunter cadre breacher is absolutely crushing overwatch. Stick a single crisis suit nearby with a pair of burst cannon and the counterfire defence system and you have some brutal overwatch support even without markerlights. Give their fish the point defence thingey and it can contribute its burst cannon to the overwatch as well. Have a hammerhead with longstrike nearby and he can overwatch support multiple times for multiple units, murder!

I prefer running my Breachers more as a suicide unit than anything. If your unit gets wiped, no big deal. It was 45 points, and it probably did a lot more than 45 pts' worth of damage before eating it. Rather than going out of my way rigging some elaborate and expensive defense for them, why not just have more dudes? Boys before toys!

I've been experimenting with Ghostkeel Wing-protected Devilfish, and they have seldom failed to deliver their Breacher cargo. As far as I'm concerned, any firepower that goes towards punching through a 2+ cover Devilfish is a win for me. Similarly, any shot at a disembarked Breacher unit after it deletes a target is also acceptable.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I prefer running my Breachers more as a suicide unit than anything. If your unit gets wiped, no big deal. It was 45 points, and it probably did a lot more than 45 pts' worth of damage before eating it. Rather than going out of my way rigging some elaborate and expensive defense for them, why not just have more dudes? Boys before toys!

I've been experimenting with Ghostkeel Wing-protected Devilfish, and they have seldom failed to deliver their Breacher cargo. As far as I'm concerned, any firepower that goes towards punching through a 2+ cover Devilfish is a win for me. Similarly, any shot at a disembarked Breacher unit after it deletes a target is also acceptable.

It isn't just 45pts though if you figure in the 80 pt minimum devilfish delivery system which becomes worthless once the breachers are dead. If you can keep them alive longer through overwatch shenanigans then not only are you killing more stuff (at no extra cost) but they may live to jump back in their fish and race off to delete something else. Soviet tactics work for the guard, not so much for the Tau.

 SolarCross wrote:

MilkmanAl wrote:
I prefer running my Breachers more as a suicide unit than anything. If your unit gets wiped, no big deal. It was 45 points, and it probably did a lot more than 45 pts' worth of damage before eating it. Rather than going out of my way rigging some elaborate and expensive defense for them, why not just have more dudes? Boys before toys!

I've been experimenting with Ghostkeel Wing-protected Devilfish, and they have seldom failed to deliver their Breacher cargo. As far as I'm concerned, any firepower that goes towards punching through a 2+ cover Devilfish is a win for me. Similarly, any shot at a disembarked Breacher unit after it deletes a target is also acceptable.

It isn't just 45pts though if you figure in the 80 pt minimum devilfish delivery system which becomes worthless once the breachers are dead. If you can keep them alive longer through overwatch shenanigans then not only are you killing more stuff (at no extra cost) but they may live to jump back in their fish and race off to delete something else. Soviet tactics work for the guard, not so much for the Tau.

If you are running a CAD rather than a Hunter Contingent, the D-fish has ObSec. Not totally worthless, as you can still cap objectives with it. If you took a D-pod, you can jink for a 3+ cover save (you didn't take the 'fish for its shooting after all!).

I'm always surprised that more people don't think of Breachers as a competitive choice. Most armies would kill for that many S6 AP3 shots, for that cheap. Delivery system, or just buying a mountain more of them, I always feel like they either do well, or take fire that would've been directed at something more valuable.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Rather than going out of my way rigging some elaborate and expensive defense for them, why not just have more dudes? Breachers more as a suiciBoys before toys!

tau are one of the races where it can go either way. If tau are supposed to be a modern army in a ww1 setting, then going the other way works as well. Darkstrider with breachers are an entertaining combination too. Last, your point of the devilfish becoming worthless after the unit within dies is wrong. Never deploy an ethereal, as their aura is buffed by staying in their delivery vehicle.

My only issue with Breachers is getting them close enough to a target to enjoy their Str6 AP3. How practical is it to get a Devilfish close enough to make this happen? Obviously turn one, you can move 12 then flat out, but after that, it seems like it would be tricky to move 6 , disembark, and expect an opponent's units to be in range for the Str6 shots.

Right now, I use Breachers more defensively in the back field with my Stormsurge. It's tough to tell if they're more effective that way or not but I do think that they do provide some decent deterrent for only 45 points.

 Bach wrote:
My only issue with Breachers is getting them close enough to a target to enjoy their Str6 AP3. How practical is it to get a Devilfish close enough to make this happen? Obviously turn one, you can move 12 then flat out, but after that, it seems like it would be tricky to move 6 , disembark, and expect an opponent's units to be in range for the Str6 shots.

Right now, I use Breachers more defensively in the back field with my Stormsurge. It's tough to tell if they're more effective that way or not but I do think that they do provide some decent deterrent for only 45 points.

Hunter Cadre Breachers can run then shoot if within 12" of the commander (or fireblade), that adds a bit. Another thing is objectives help to hold an enemy in place for you to get close enough. Get the fish within 12" (going flat out if need be) of a unit on a objective, preferably finishing the turn in cover, then the enemy will have to surrender the objective to avoid getting blasted on your next turn. Tricky but doable.

The trick is really to keep the fish alive so close to an enemy for the duration of his turn, that's melta range. Sensor spines + disruption pods parked in cover help there as is giving the fish some overwatch support from nearby crisis suits or other. That and sniping away their melta blokes with sniper drones. Generally you are wanting a map that is cover dense in contrast to a rangy gunline that wants long open firelanes.

Soviet tactics work for the guard, not so much for the Tau.

Agree to disagree, I guess. I don't feel like spending points and putting units in a vulnerable position (i.e., far forward enough to be overwatch participants) is particularly wise when you're talking about protecting basic troops. Furthermore, Tau overwatch strikes me as more of a panic button than something to exploit. You're still hitting on 6s (or 5s with appropriate wargear) and have to be getting charged in the first place to even use it. I prefer to stay mobile and run the f away from anything that would want to get into combat.

Last, your point of the devilfish becoming worthless after the unit within dies is wrong. Never deploy an ethereal, as their aura is buffed by staying in their delivery vehicle.

I don't believe that was a point of mine - at least not recently. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Devilfish, but they sure are hard (and frustrating!) to kill with 2+ cover. I use Ethereals in exactly that manner, though it sounds like the FAQ my squash that tactic. It's also nice to run around tank shocking enemy units and/or obsec-ing them off objectives with your expensive but durable box. I have a Drone Net in the army I'm running currently, so they're also nice for 4 twin-linked, BS3 shots per turn. It's better than nothing!