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how do devilfish get a 2+ cover? I know 3+ in the open from Dpod & Jink. Oh, you mean while in cover?

Ghostkeel wing bumps up the cover save by +1 in addition to the D pod.Pretty sweet!

What about running breachers with the Tidewall Shieldline. I know it can only move six inches a turn, but has anyone tried it as a means to get the breachers there? It is slightly cheaper than a Devilfish and could result in the opponent's weapons wounding them instead of the breachers.

I ran Fire WEarriors in a Gun fort. Twas vry good. Won that tournament

spect_spidey wrote:
What about running breachers with the Tidewall Shieldline. I know it can only move six inches a turn, but has anyone tried it as a means to get the breachers there? It is slightly cheaper than a Devilfish and could result in the opponent's weapons wounding them instead of the breachers.

Except no. Given how short ranged the breachers are your opponent would have no reason to shoot at them, just ignore them for 5 turns it takes to get anywhere while they do nothing. Firewarriors would be great especially with a pulse range extender thingy because they can shoot at gak all day long and be a threat that can't be ignored but breachers wouldn't work that way at all. Breachers have to get in close fast and move on to the next (if they survive long enough to do that) without a flying transport the devilfish is the only way for them to go.

 SolarCross wrote:

spect_spidey wrote:
What about running breachers with the Tidewall Shieldline. I know it can only move six inches a turn, but has anyone tried it as a means to get the breachers there? It is slightly cheaper than a Devilfish and could result in the opponent's weapons wounding them instead of the breachers.

Except no. Given how short ranged the breachers are your opponent would have no reason to shoot at them, just ignore them for 5 turns it takes to get anywhere while they do nothing. Firewarriors would be great especially with a pulse range extender thingy because they can shoot at gak all day long and be a threat that can't be ignored but breachers wouldn't work that way at all. Breachers have to get in close fast and move on to the next (if they survive long enough to do that) without a flying transport the devilfish is the only way for them to go.

Exalted for truth! Breachers are only good close up, and the only way for them to get close up is with a Devilfish.

Your post did give me an idea, though. Maybe take a Pathfinder team, take the Pulse Accelerator drone, and put the whole works on a Tidewall Shieldline. 4+ cover save with possible reflected enemy bullets, can shoot carbines to 24 inches, and can also provide marker support if needed. Maybe put Darkstrider with them for the lolz, as well, since he could make them more effective vs. Monstrous Creatures.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Exalted for truth! Breachers are only good close up, and the only way for them to get close up is with a Devilfish.

You are missing the point. Breachers are close range, yes. Question is, is where do our opponents want to be? Close. We don't need a way to go to them. We need only keep our breachers effective until our enemy comes to us.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Exalted for truth! Breachers are only good close up, and the only way for them to get close up is with a Devilfish.

Your post did give me an idea, though. Maybe take a Pathfinder team, take the Pulse Accelerator drone, and put the whole works on a Tidewall Shieldline. 4+ cover save with possible reflected enemy bullets, can shoot carbines to 24 inches, and can also provide marker support if needed. Maybe put Darkstrider with them for the lolz, as well, since he could make them more effective vs. Monstrous Creatures.

Yeah pathfinders would work really well. The fact that on the platform they don't count as moving means they can fire their markerlights at full BS whilst moving in cover each and every turn which is kind of powerful for markerlight support.

yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

I do not understand why the assault grenade makes emp nades less useful.

You are pretty much taking a hp off of the vehicle you otherwise cannot touch in cc before the squad dies horribly.

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

Question: If pathfinders start on a shieldwall/gunrig can they move it with their scout rule?

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

Question: If pathfinders start on a shieldwall/gunrig can they move it with their scout rule?

Is it a dedicated transport?

 sfshilo wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

Question: If pathfinders start on a shieldwall/gunrig can they move it with their scout rule?

Is it a dedicated transport?

Iirc (and I may be totally wrong) didn't the faq say you can't scout fortifications?

Guess who's back -------- back again ------- CKO is here ------- tell a friend!

I actually have some free time from work so I will be running my mouth a lot more again, I haven't been around since the release.

I am building a TAC Tau list and I want to get the job done in a way! Basically meaning I like to use units and tactics my opponent has not seen before making it harder to prioritize their targets. I am trying to stay away from Riptides and Stormsurges even though the Riptide Wing is very attractive!

I am going to make a thread about building the list but I want to get my fellow commanders opinion about certain things!

Things I love:

Killing blow the command benefit from the montka book! Killing blow in my opinion basically allows me to guarantee the death of one unit.

Fire Warriors on a shieldline with a fireblade, I will have an Ethereal near by so the unit will pump out 20+ str 5 at 30 inches and 40+ in rapid fire range. Combine this with death blow you will be hurting units.

Piranhas with fusion blasters able to move 18 inches than fire, that's melta range easy! Which side are you putting your ion shields on, because I really don't care!

Sniper Drones with an Ethereal, that's 27 bs 5 sniper shots at 24 inch range! Early game the unit can act as a marker light source by adding drones from the ethereal and more marksman all at bs 5. Sniper drones with killing blow equals death!

I have more but I don't want to make a crazy long post but, Killing Blow affects the enemy unit so if I bring a CAD they get to use the re-roll also, right?

> Killing Blow affects the enemy unit so if I bring a CAD they get to use the re-roll also, right?

Pretty sure it doesn't. Killing Blow is a special rule for the Dawn Blade Contingent and its members. The way GW has ruled on SM Chapter Tactics, I suspect that if you get an Ethereal into a CAD, and attach it to a unit from a Dawn Blade Contingent, that the Dawn Blade unit will actually lose its special rules.

There have been several other examples in the recent rounds of FAQ's that show ICs from one formation do not benefit from the special rules of another formation it attaches to. Unless it is a USR that specifically says "a unit that contains at least one member with this special ability" or somesuch, then all members of the unit need the ability for the unit as a whole to benefit.

daveyjones239 wrote:
Pretty sure it doesn't. Killing Blow is a special rule for the Dawn Blade Contingent and its members. The way GW has ruled on SM Chapter Tactics, I suspect that if you get an Ethereal into a CAD, and attach it to a unit from a Dawn Blade Contingent, that the Dawn Blade unit will actually lose its special rules.

The benefit is not something the units get it is a benefit the player gets, it says you get to re-roll failed to wound and armor penetration rolls against that enemy unit.

daveyjones239 wrote:
There have been several other examples in the recent rounds of FAQ's that show ICs from one formation do not benefit from the special rules of another formation it attaches to. Unless it is a USR that specifically says "a unit that contains at least one member with this special ability" or somesuch, then all members of the unit need the ability for the unit as a whole to benefit.

The command benefit doesn't even mention your units at all, if you look at command benefits they specifically say units or models in this formation can do xyz this command benefit allows the player to re-roll, it seems quite clear to me.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

Question: If pathfinders start on a shieldwall/gunrig can they move it with their scout rule?

no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sfshilo wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah. with the Gunrig, he Pathfinders become kinda like Drones: mobile if you're using them for Markerlights.

Question: If pathfinders start on a shieldwall/gunrig can they move it with their scout rule?

Is it a dedicated transport?

no

Anyone tried Tau tanks in a squadron of 3? Without target locks I had not really thought about it, but currently I'm taking three skyrays anyways. So I thought it might be interesting to squad them up for a game or two to see how it fares. I already use Shadowsun and her command drone, and was thinking that might have a good synergy with 3 bs 5 skyrays dumping their seekers (with ignore cover ofc via their markers) into something like a wraithknight. The command drone lets you re-roll ones, so effectively twin links the seeker missiles and networked markerlights.

The rest of the time I use the drone for the OSC Ghostkeels who love it!

Problem is, mere +1BS is not usually worth the loss in flexibility of self targeting and defense of being seperated, especially not for tau that can throw in markerlights to boost BS of anything, or in a hunter cadre where three seperate tanks can simply choose to combine shots and get that bonus without being in the same unit.

Yeah that was why I initially dismissed the squadrons as a bit naff, but I was thinking shadowsuns drone lets a unit re-roll ones, effectively twin linking markerlights and their seeker missiles for a trio of skyrays. The unit can use their own markers to strip cover.

18 twin liked, bs5, ignore cover seeker missiles turn one, + it leaves on average 4 spare marker hits on whatever intended target, for another unit to use at the same target. Gross overkill on most stuff, but I've found people usually have one unit, like a Wraithknight, stormsurge, biker/thunder wolf + hq's unit that requires an obscene amount of dakka!

Three separate skyrays is better for scoring and durability, but as my only marker source, they can't always strip cover individually when launching the alpha strike turn one, some markerlights miss and so forth.

The squadron throws the much better alpha strike, at the expense of flexibility. I might try it out just to see. I'm sceptical myself, but the +1 bs, in combination with a unit like skyrays that can use their own markerlights and receive a buff from a separate unit (shadowsuns command link drone), has me curious.

This is a pretty basic question, but occured to me reading some of these posts...

What's the official order of operations in terms of using Marklights to ignore cover, and offering your opponent a chance to Jink? I know asking your opponent if they want to Jink comes before any dice are rolled, but do you also ask before/after deciding if you want to spend ML to ignore cover, versus just boosting BS?

Edit: Since i'm asking questions anyway, maybe someone can help with this one. How does Target Lock interact with rules like those granted by the detachment that grants +1BS if three units shoot a given target? If I declare three units from the formation firing together, they obviously gain the bonus, but does the bonus extend to the member of a given unit who is then also firing into a separate target?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
This is a pretty basic question, but occured to me reading some of these posts...

What's the official order of operations in terms of using Marklights to ignore cover, and offering your opponent a chance to Jink? I know asking your opponent if they want to Jink comes before any dice are rolled, but do you also ask before/after deciding if you want to spend ML to ignore cover, versus just boosting BS?

Edit: Since i'm asking questions anyway, maybe someone can help with this one. How does Target Lock interact with rules like those granted by the detachment that grants +1BS if three units shoot a given target? If I declare three units from the formation firing together, they obviously gain the bonus, but does the bonus extend to the member of a given unit who is then also firing into a separate target?

As for your first question, I'd have to say the jink comes first, then the markerlights. Jink is declared upon targeting, while markerlights, are used "directly before shooting."

As for your second question, that is a very highly debated topic. Theoretically you could team up to shoot one thing then use target locks to blast everything. The rule says that the "units" must shoot at the same target, and doesn't mention models, so talk to your opponents beforehand for this one.

Thanks. Also, as I am rebuilding a bunch of lists to test, and buying a few things to fill in gaps in my collection...

1. How do people feel about the different Markerlight sources? I am thinking I still like units of FW Tetras, but I know in a Retaliation Cadre, the Dronemander's Markerlights are Relentless. Similarly, how about Skyrays as sources of Markerlights?

2. I feel like Tau, unlike most armies I have owned, legitimately have tons of viable builds, and options. That said, I know many of the detachments/formations have become super popular. Am I at a deficit if I also run small CADs with my lists? I LOVE my Yvahrha-tide, and the aforementioned Tetras, but always feel like i'm leaving something if I don't just go with formations.

With the advent of the Drone Net, drones are pretty clearly the best source of marker lights these days. I think a Mark'o is an inferior choice to 4x4 units of Marker Drones, but some disagree. Tetras are still a very good choice, but the lights on Skyrays are just a bonus. I wouldn't take them for that purpose. You could get 8 Marker Drones (or 3 Tetras) for the same cost.

I'd only take Pathfinders as part of the Ranged Support Cadre. When you can have BS3 Drones essentially for free, there's not reason to hamstring yourself with this more fragile, less mobile option. When they double their hits and have +3 to cover, Pathfinders are fine, but Drones are just better, otherwise.

The fact that Stormsurges are kind of hard to come by in formations makes the CAD a very good option. I've recently been playing around with a CAD-based army that exploits the stealth bubble from a Ghostkeel Wing with quite a lot of success. Some of our formations have really impressive bonuses, but you don't have to have everything all at once to be solid on the battlefield. Sometimes a cohesive list is a better option than the sum of multiple good parts.That said, sometimes it's really nice to ignore cover and hit rear armor with an extra BS. As you alluded to, one of the challenges of building a Tau army is figuring out which good options you want to take advantage of.

MilkmanAl wrote:
With the advent of the Drone Net, drones are pretty clearly the best source of marker lights these days. I think a Mark'o is an inferior choice to 4x4 units of Marker Drones, but some disagree. Tetras are still a very good choice, but the lights on Skyrays are just a bonus. I wouldn't take them for that purpose. You could get 8 Marker Drones (or 3 Tetras) for the same cost.

I'd only take Pathfinders as part of the Ranged Support Cadre. When you can have BS3 Drones essentially for free, there's not reason to hamstring yourself with this more fragile, less mobile option. When they double their hits and have +3 to cover, Pathfinders are fine, but Drones are just better, otherwise.

The fact that Stormsurges are kind of hard to come by in formations makes the CAD a very good option. I've recently been playing around with a CAD-based army that exploits the stealth bubble from a Ghostkeel Wing with quite a lot of success. Some of our formations have really impressive bonuses, but you don't have to have everything all at once to be solid on the battlefield. Sometimes a cohesive list is a better option than the sum of multiple good parts.That said, sometimes it's really nice to ignore cover and hit rear armor with an extra BS. As you alluded to, one of the challenges of building a Tau army is figuring out which good options you want to take advantage of.

Thanks for all of that strong advice.

My current plan is to build a list towards the typical 1850pts, primarily focused on having a Retribution Cadre, with modestly buffed units of Crisis Suits in it, and a CAD which includes my beloved Y'vahra (never build a list without one... I LOVE it), and a unit of 3-4 Tetras. The Homing Beacon + Scout on the Tetras should help said Retribution Cadre land wherever they like for maximum effect.

Points allowing i'll also include an Optimized Stealth Cadre which has always, always, always, done obscene amounts of work for me.

Edit: Incidentally, are there any good ways to get Relentless Marker-Drones, or at least have them on platforms that don't make them snap-fire due to being "Heavy 1" weapons? Obviously the vehicle mounted ones have an advantage here... but do the Markerlights from a Commander's unit in the Retribution Cadre, inherit his "Relentless"? Does he only convey it to "his" two Drones, or can he attach to a unit of Drones and gift it to them?

Drones are jetpack units and are thus always relentless.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Drones are jetpack units and are thus always relentless.

Well... Damn. That certainly changes things. I clearly never realized that. :-p

Thanks man. That's a powerful piece of knowledge.

Actually, even compared to drone net. Tetras are more efficient by a bit on raw point per mark.

Both are very mobile, although in different ways, and each has its own special tricks the other does not.


If you have a CAD anyway, I'd vote for Tetras. Otherwise, drone networks are easier to fit into formation based armies.

I'll definitely consider both. Thanks guys. I own a LOT of Tau, as they had been a painting project long before I considered playing them, but now... three painted Start Collecting boxes in, and with an Y'vahra, several Tetras, and with a few painted Stealth Teams, and Ghost Keels, I have decided to make a serious go of playing them in local competitive events.

Two FSE CADs each with 2 Mark'Os and 3 flamer Crisis Monat Troops, a Markerlight Drone-Net, and 2 Pulse Stormsurges filling one of the CADs LoW slot. Depending on options, hits at around 1850points. Join the Mark'Os one each to a Drone squad for Surge Support while the Monats secure objectives.

I like to take Missile Pods and an extra Marker Drone on the Mark'Os, for 5 Marker Drones each in toto. Split Fire lets the Mark'O snipe while the Markers light.

SJ