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 BoomWolf wrote:
Never put a Dpod on a tetra though, a 15 point upgrade to give +1 saves for a model that costs only 35 points to begin with is absurd. save the points and buy more tetras.

Normally I would agree, but when coupled with the Ghostkeel Wing and assuming a base 4+ cover save, with out Jinking and before modifiers, you are doubling the hull points that are needed to take the lead Tetra down (barring an Explodes! result). Going from 6HP needed to down the first one to 12HP is a big jump for less than half the cost of the added Tetra, who will also effectively add an other 6HP to the unit (and add more markers in the process). The other gamble is that the added Tetra and the original lead Tetra (combined 12 HP with 4+ cover and Stealth) will take a potential 4 rolls on vehicle damage; the single lead Tetra with a Disruption Pod only ever needs to roll twice. This cuts the chance of an Explodes! result down as well.
I would never have tried it (heck I can't even justify spending for Sensor Spines on these guys) but recently I happened to be running two 4 Tetra units already with a Y'vahra in FA. I couldn't add more, without going double CAD, and I already had a Ghostkeel Wing and (playing in ITC rules with only 3 Detachments) would have had to drop my Culexus and pay a CAD tax to do so. Math and Force Org reasons aside, the Disruption Pop did another thing that made a huge difference: it gave me a specific morale-deflating answer to my opponents question "What save do you Markerlights have?". 2+ is not what they want to hear, even if it is only one Tetra that gets it. When they realize it will, most likely, take 9 Scatbikes to down that one lead skimmer, they rethink putting their firepower there, which can confuse target priority and generate a bad decision.

TLDR: For five points less than an additional Tetra, I can give two Tetra Squadrons the durability equivalent to an added Tetra each, while rolling fewer times on the Vehicle Damage table. This only works with the Ghostkeel Wing in play.

Tetras are definitely excellent, there's no doubt about it. I feel like any time you can throw a functional armored shell on the table for that cheap, it's got to be worthwhile, right? With a 3+ jink save, that's doubly true. I don't know that I'd bother with d-pods on them, though. It seems like it might be kind of hard to keep them within that 12" bubble of 2 Keels.

On a related note, I find that the GKW effectively renders your marker drones invulnerable. With jink and GtG, they always have access to a 2+ cover save in the open. Unless your opponent is rocking some Wyverns and/or Thunderfires, he's probably not going to waste time shooting at 14-pt models with that high of a save.

In my list, I'm really trying to get the most out of Breachers, and surrounding them with 2+ Devilfish hulls - of which I'm currently running 5 - is massively frustrating for opponents. Yeah, I'm dumping 450 pts into relatively inert units, but I've had great luck tank shocking things into bad positions and walling off my forces so that the 'Fish are the only visible targets. (Note that a Devilfish on a flying stand completely obscures a Ghostkeel!) It's kind of a touchy army to play, since you can fairly easily get out of position and lose your awesome cover save, but if you can pay attention to your spacing, it's a deceptively strong list. I don't know that it'd fare incredibly well against mega-fast close combat armies, but you'd still definitely do some big damage with your Breacher drop before getting ravaged. I'll have to try it out.

FAQ says you cant jink and GTG with the same unit.

MilkmanAl wrote:
It seems like it might be kind of hard to keep them within that 12" bubble of 2 Keels.

With 4" coherency and 12" move, I find the opposite is true.

MilkmanAl wrote:
On a related note, I find that the GKW effectively renders your marker drones invulnerable. With jink and GtG, they always have access to a 2+ cover save in the open.

Unfornunatly my FLGS uses the the new GW FAQ in addition to the ITC rules so no more Jink and Go to Ground for me! Before that, and with Jinking Drones in general, my opponents seemed content to force a Jink to get the subsequent Snapshooting Markerlights. I've been trying new setups with the goal to avoid Jinking with any of my Markerlights. However, combined with two chances to get Conqueror of Cities or Night Attacker on the Strategic table, Stealth & Shrouded on any Markerlight platform is great. Even if it's just first turn with Night Fighting, avoiding as much damage that turn (especially if you go second) is critical.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Unless your opponent is rocking some Wyverns and/or Thunderfires, he's probably not going to waste time shooting at 14-pt models with that high of a save.

Do you run your Drone Net 4x4 or otherwise? I have only used it with min squads, and found my opponents would still go after them with a 2+ cover save, just to take one out and force the Leadership Test. Three squads of 5 Drones, and one of 4 for a Commander to join would help that though. Then they have to nail two, which would be less tempting. . .I'll have to try that out next time I run the Net.
On Wyverns, another plus for the Tetra is Glancing on 6's with no Shred rerolls. Even though the Drones still have their armor save, the sheer number of wounds is rough for any infantry. The first time I ran into Wyverns, I had no Idea what they could do, and my whole army got rocked real hard.

MilkmanAl wrote:
In my list, I'm really trying to get the most out of Breachers, and surrounding them with 2+ Devilfish hulls - of which I'm currently running 5 - is massively frustrating for opponents.

I could see that also!

MilkmanAl wrote:
Yeah, I'm dumping 450 pts into relatively inert units, but I've had great luck tank shocking things into bad positions and walling off my forces so that the 'Fish are the only visible targets. (Note that a Devilfish on a flying stand completely obscures a Ghostkeel!) It's kind of a touchy army to play, since you can fairly easily get out of position and lose your awesome cover save, but if you can pay attention to your spacing, it's a deceptively strong list. I don't know that it'd fare incredibly well against mega-fast close combat armies, but you'd still definitely do some big damage with your Breacher drop before getting ravaged.

That sounds real enjoyable, I have to try some Devilfish out. I think pushing around Lines of sight and obscuring Charge lanes can be invaluable, and buy precious time. I would probably just take a Dedicated Transport or two for some Breachers (that I don't have yet, I'll have to start with a Strike Team), just because with the GW Draft FAQ in play for me, the Breachers would be snapfireing subsequently Disembarking after a Jink. But 2+ Cover Obsec AV12 that no one wants to spend time getting through sounds very useful.

Thanks for the tips! If you have or find any more good combos with the Ghostkeel Wing, I'd love to hear about them.

I must have missed the no jink/GtG combo. Bummer. :(

Also, I do typically have 5 drones in a unit to prevent leadership nonsense. That is, I try to run 4x5 Marker Drones in the Drone Net. Snapfiring markers is annoying but not as annoying as watching drones eat your firepower!

As for other GKW uses, I honestly am a bit stumped. Our vehicles are a bit on the rubbish side, as a whole, so the d-pod/jink thing is of somewhat limited use. If our flyers weren't so god-awful, maybe you could try making some use of their formations? You could possibly use the GKW to keep the Pathfinders from a Ranged Support Cadre alive better, too. That's about all I have.

Here's my revised 1850 pure comp list. Critique/Comments/Concerns/Repeats?

Hunter Contingent

Hunter Cadre (1058)

Command-
Commander (128)
-2x Missile Pod
-Target Light
-Drone Controller

Troops-
5x Strikers (45)
5x Strikers (45)
5x Strikers (45)

Elites-
Riptide (225)
-Ion Accelerator
-Stimms
-EWO

Riptide (225)
-Ion Accelerator
-Stimms
-EWO

Crisis Suit (62)
-1x Fusion
-1x TL Fusion

Fast Attack-
Drone Squadron (60)
-5x Markers

Drone Squadron (60)
-5x Markers

5x Pathfinders (55)

Heavy-
2x Broadside (170)
-2x HYMP
-2x Velocity Trackers

Optimized Stealth Cadre (322)

Ghostkeel (142)
-Ion Raker
-Fusion Blasters
-Advanced Targeting System

Stealth Suits (90)

Stealth Suits (90)

Combined Arms Detachment - Codex:Tau Empire (405)
HQ-
Ethereal (50)

Troops-
5x Strikers (45)
5x Strikers (45)

Fast Attack-
Y'Vahra (265)
-Stimms

Hunter Contingent vs Dawn Blade Contingent

Which one is better?

I am leaning towards the Dawn Blade because I like the Riptide Formation and the Drone-Network Formation but I am not sure what about you?

I guess it depends on the list style. If you play MSU the hunter contingent will be the better choice, because sharing MLs is great.

As for the dawn blade... i don't know why to take it. May be if i take a lot of sniper drones the command benefit can come in handy. But usually i prefer a normal FSE CAD + Riptide Wing or Drone net.

The DBC is nice because you essentially auto-delete a unit each turn. Tau have plenty of ways to get things to hit - marker lights, twin-linked things, fire volume, etc. - but few tricks with wounding or armor penetration. Imagine Broadsides from a Ranged Support Cadre unloading on your pseudo-Doomed target. That's a LOT of very reliable firepower! I also think it'd be nice to use with some deep-striking Crisis Suits to erase a high-priority target. I actually think the DBC is the superior choice, overall. Sharing marker lights and an extra BS is definitely nice, but it requires a lot more maneuvering to use.

 CKO wrote:
Hunter Contingent vs Dawn Blade Contingent

Which one is better?

Competitively: I have trouble with this question because I always have to compare each to a CAD as well. Not just the standard 'ObSec vs Combi-Detachment Bonus' conversation, but the fact that we have some seriously killer FW units that really shine on the board, and the Riptide Wing can't be taken in either one. You can always take 'Formations on the Side' or an allied CAD, but the nature of either Combi-Detachment gets weaker for each point spent outside of it. Without running a Formation combo like the Firestream Wing/Drone-Net, I would have to go with the Dawnblade. The MSU ability of the Hunter Contingent is made largely irrelevant with out ObSec, our larger threats are still single high value units (Stormsurge, Riptide) or big squads (Crisis Suits w/Buff SigSys). MSU would be great for Markerlight sources, keeping them all from being knocked out by on or two great anti-infantry or Cover Ignoring attacks; but you really only have Pathfinders and Drones to spam in either Combi-Detachment. Pathfinders are terrible Markerlight sources (with one or two exceptions), and if you want to spam drones, you want the Dawnblade. The ability to take the Drone-Net as an Aux choice is huge. Intercepting BS3 Markerlights are amazing and fix two central problems of EWO spam: 1) AP2 Large Blasts can now Ignore Cover, 2) High rate-of-fire units with high AP weapons are not stuck at BS3, and can get the volume of wounds they need to make a big difference.

Coordinated Firepower vs The Killing Blow is really, to me, a matter of preference. Both are great, but I think Coordinated Firepower is easier to use and take full advantage of. The Killing Blow is awesome too, but requires a significant amount of planning and maneuvering to get the most impact. I have to admit, it's also easy to forget to use every round, until you have used it for a few games. I love me some Kroot, so rerolling Sniper wounds is a winner for me in the Dawnblade. Generally I find the Dawnblade better for infantry due to the lower Strength weaponry benefiting more from the Reroll of wounds. The Hunter Contingent helps my High Strength shots land more consistently, even once Markerlights get scarce, and they usually wound on 1s already. There are specific match-ups that one or the other is better against. Wraithknights hate the Dawnblade, Deathstars dislike the Hunter Contingent, but Gladius couldn't usually care less.

Casually:They both rock. When you aren't trying to break open a Deathstar or take down ScatterSpam or demolish a whole Knightly House, round after round, you can't go wrong with either the Hunter Contingent or Dawnblade! Both are flexible in terms of unit selection, allow you to make everything you bring better, and offer more fun and fluff to any list. I still will take the Dawnblade in this instance, just because I can get away with only one ECPA Riptide and just field fun stuff. The Ranged Support Cadre is one of the only ways I can stomach Pathfinders, and they are so good in that Formation I kitbashed and painted three squads just for that purpose (and I LOATHE Pathfinders, I am the Bizarro Jancoran when it comes to these points wasting, bulls-eye carrying, walking corpses). You can also get some Pseudo-Coordinated Firepower in the Dawnblade if you want to use the Firebase Support Cadre. Once FW drops IA16 (and we see the 'Final Form' of the Y'vahra, and maybe a buff to the R'varna), they will also hopefully give us some access to FW in the Combi-Detachments. At that point I expect we will see many more seriously competitive Tau lists using them regularly.

I think Killing blow has the most potential though. hen you MUST kill something ands the markerlights have all gone out...

So on that note... is the Dawnblade Contingent require you to be a Farsight Enclave force? Does it also require you to take The Eight?

I'm not a fan of Farsight quite frankly and would rather be the traditional Empire but I find it annoying I wouldn't really be able to use the DBC from what I'm reading.

Dont have to take Farsight OR the 8 anymore

Well that's a plus, I'd still have to take the silly bonding knife thing and use all the FE additonal rules correct?

I suppose it makes it a distinguishing feature but I doubt the Tau Empire forgot how to use killing blow tactics and likely a commander is still using them -.-.

What is your opinion on the new Barracuda? I'm looking to run it because it's a badass shark of the skies, and my loadout will likely be Barracuda Ion Cannon, 2x Auto-Targetting Cyclic Ion, and 2-4x Seeker Missiles.
The Railgun would be cool because it reminds me of the tank-killing Stukas with 37mm cannons on them, but sadly it doesn't seem too too good to me.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Well that's a plus, I'd still have to take the silly bonding knife thing and use all the FE additonal rules correct?

I suppose it makes it a distinguishing feature but I doubt the Tau Empire forgot how to use killing blow tactics and likely a commander is still using them -.-.

Bonding knife is important for ghostkeels and Crisis stars. trust me on that point. Lol.

 Jancoran wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Well that's a plus, I'd still have to take the silly bonding knife thing and use all the FE additonal rules correct?

I suppose it makes it a distinguishing feature but I doubt the Tau Empire forgot how to use killing blow tactics and likely a commander is still using them -.-.

Bonding knife is important for ghostkeels and Crisis stars. trust me on that point. Lol.

Lol I guess that's a round-about answer of "yes" to my is that a requirement question.

I currently don't have Ghostkeels or enough crisis for a crisis star though.

well then, time to start saving. hehehe.

 Verviedi wrote:
What is your opinion on the new Barracuda? I'm looking to run it because it's a badass shark of the skies, and my loadout will likely be Barracuda Ion Cannon, 2x Auto-Targetting Cyclic Ion, and 2-4x Seeker Missiles.
The Railgun would be cool because it reminds me of the tank-killing Stukas with 37mm cannons on them, but sadly it doesn't seem too too good to me.

The new barracuda is interesting, especially since it has had it's wing burst cannons upgraded to long barreled versions. The important distinction with the ion cannon, is it cannot overheat (unless I read it incorrectly, that profile is not listed, therefore I am assuming it cannot be used).

I think the two best ways to run it is pure anti infantry (double long barreled burst, heavy burst) or as pure anti tank (railgun, ion on the wings), though I think in most instances the anti infantry option will be more effective (and cheaper).

In a Dawn Blade, is it ever worthwhile to take a Hunter Cadre as the core rather than a Retaliation Cadre? I have enough models to run it with the Hunter Cadre, but to make a decent DBC with the Retaliation Cadre I would need to come up with a few more suits. Only reason I can see to take Hunter Cadre as core would be because its the only way to get a Stormsurge into a DBC.

I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I ran into a DA/SW/DA Conclave star with Azrael + Ezekiel. Any pointers on how to defeat this, other than going first and nuking the important characters?

 thejughead wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I ran into a DA/SW/DA Conclave star with Azrael + Ezekiel. Any pointers on how to defeat this, other than going first and nuking the important characters?

We talking ITC or uninhibited star?

ITC, heels planted surge will do work with the S10 blasts. Ripwing with Ion will do work with double shot S8 blasts, I managed to remove one in 2 turns with a ripwing and 27 marker drones with ethereal. Used snipers first to clear as many dogs as possible, and precision onto characters. Double shot tides turn 1 with large blasts, inflicted something like 35 ap 2 wounds in the first go.

Was funny to see his face when every sniper unit fired 27 shots at BS5

Point is, there are ways to deal with it, especially since it is usually all eggs in one basket. I have a weight of fire list that has 3 units of breachers in fishes, 3 units of sniper drones, havent tried it on that bomb yet, but I did manage to kill 2 surges and 2 riptides in a single go... was quite amusing.

Bubble wrap your key units, shoot it to crap, spread out a lot, the usual tactics to avoid the bombs. Going first def helps because powers arent in effect, but if you go second it isnt the end of the world. Also, go for his backfield (drop suits and the like) as he will have to make a choice to come at you or stay at home with a few things, diminishing the strength of the unit.

It is a huge pain, I agree, but manageable. I mean, surge in combat can also be used as a stop gap, but honestly, if you have 1-2 surges, plant heels and marker away and just lay into him with multiple S10 blasts, D missiles, and a metric crapton of S5

 gameandwatch wrote:

 thejughead wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I ran into a DA/SW/DA Conclave star with Azrael + Ezekiel. Any pointers on how to defeat this, other than going first and nuking the important characters?

We talking ITC or uninhibited star?

ITC, heels planted surge will do work with the S10 blasts. Ripwing with Ion will do work with double shot S8 blasts, I managed to remove one in 2 turns with a ripwing and 27 marker drones with ethereal. Used snipers first to clear as many dogs as possible, and precision onto characters. Double shot tides turn 1 with large blasts, inflicted something like 35 ap 2 wounds in the first go.

Was funny to see his face when every sniper unit fired 27 shots at BS5

Point is, there are ways to deal with it, especially since it is usually all eggs in one basket. I have a weight of fire list that has 3 units of breachers in fishes, 3 units of sniper drones, havent tried it on that bomb yet, but I did manage to kill 2 surges and 2 riptides in a single go... was quite amusing.

Bubble wrap your key units, shoot it to crap, spread out a lot, the usual tactics to avoid the bombs. Going first def helps because powers arent in effect, but if you go second it isnt the end of the world. Also, go for his backfield (drop suits and the like) as he will have to make a choice to come at you or stay at home with a few things, diminishing the strength of the unit.

It is a huge pain, I agree, but manageable. I mean, surge in combat can also be used as a stop gap, but honestly, if you have 1-2 surges, plant heels and marker away and just lay into him with multiple S10 blasts, D missiles, and a metric crapton of S5

Well it was ITC. He rolled Invis and Veil and it was over before it started.

 thejughead wrote:

 gameandwatch wrote:

 thejughead wrote:
I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I ran into a DA/SW/DA Conclave star with Azrael + Ezekiel. Any pointers on how to defeat this, other than going first and nuking the important characters?

We talking ITC or uninhibited star?

ITC, heels planted surge will do work with the S10 blasts. Ripwing with Ion will do work with double shot S8 blasts, I managed to remove one in 2 turns with a ripwing and 27 marker drones with ethereal. Used snipers first to clear as many dogs as possible, and precision onto characters. Double shot tides turn 1 with large blasts, inflicted something like 35 ap 2 wounds in the first go.

Was funny to see his face when every sniper unit fired 27 shots at BS5

Point is, there are ways to deal with it, especially since it is usually all eggs in one basket. I have a weight of fire list that has 3 units of breachers in fishes, 3 units of sniper drones, havent tried it on that bomb yet, but I did manage to kill 2 surges and 2 riptides in a single go... was quite amusing.

Bubble wrap your key units, shoot it to crap, spread out a lot, the usual tactics to avoid the bombs. Going first def helps because powers arent in effect, but if you go second it isnt the end of the world. Also, go for his backfield (drop suits and the like) as he will have to make a choice to come at you or stay at home with a few things, diminishing the strength of the unit.

It is a huge pain, I agree, but manageable. I mean, surge in combat can also be used as a stop gap, but honestly, if you have 1-2 surges, plant heels and marker away and just lay into him with multiple S10 blasts, D missiles, and a metric crapton of S5

Well it was ITC. He rolled Invis and Veil and it was over before it started.

Gotta love the game-breaking wombo combos...

Has anyone considered combining a Crisis bomb with multiple Stomrsurges? By my count, you can get a kitted-out 7-man bomb with buffmander and Shadowsun plus 2 Surges and a culexus in 1850. There's room for 9 marker drones in the bomb for Surge support. You may struggle in objective-heavy missions, but you'd be exceptionally mobile and powerful.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Has anyone considered combining a Crisis bomb with multiple Stomrsurges? By my count, you can get a kitted-out 7-man bomb with buffmander and Shadowsun plus 2 Surges and a culexus in 1850. There's room for 9 marker drones in the bomb for Surge support. You may struggle in objective-heavy missions, but you'd be exceptionally mobile and powerful.

I've gone a slighty different route with 2 CADs, max Mark'O commanders, 3 each Flamer Monats, a squad of 2 Surges, and a Drone-Net. Gives me 20 BS5 markerlights every turn, 6 ObSec holders, and 2 aggressive D-Shotguns.

SJ

I run the crisis *star* (not a real deathstar imo..), the optimized stealth cadre (with all 3 Ghostkeels) & 3 skyrays, which I may switch out soon for a marker net and some other stuff. Similar idea, pretty good bully list, but has some issues. The culexus may help with the anti psyker and surges with stomp, but I find it hard to cover all the bases with Tau.

I was off playing Dungeons and Dragons during the last Tau update, and I'm only recently catching up to the additions from that codex. I'm curious why I don't hear more about people using the Tau KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour. The stats look amazing. Is it just the cost, or is there something else I'm missing ?

The model looks AMAZING !!


Every year I treat myself to something nice for my birthday. This year I was thinking about treating myself, and the greater good, to a set of Supremacy Armor.

I've been away a while too; but from what I understand most events either ban them or change the rules for D to the point where it's not so amazing.

Thank you for the input.

I wasn't even thinking about the D

Pulse ordnance multi-driver
-- Pattern bombardment 12"-120" S8 AP3 Apocalyptic Barrage (3), Pinning, No Cover Saves

Tri-axis ion cannon x2
--Standard 60" S7 AP3 Heavy 6
--Coherent beam 60" S9 AP2 Heavy 3

Reaching out and murdering enemy forces, for the greater good, from across the table, every turn.

It might even be less killy than 2 or 3 Riptides, but it's sure to attract a hell of a lot of enemy fire, freeing up your other forces to do their jobs.

I was thinking about rebuilding my Tau collection around a core of the Supremacy Suit, a Stormsurge, and a Riptide.