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I'm still new to Warhammer and war gaming in general so bare with me please.

Question
Is over watch mandatory? If you forget to do something (over watch) in a casual setting is it normal to want to go back and do it? What about in a tournament setting?

Story
A friend and I were playing a game, my Grey Knights versus his Tau, and my strike squad charged one of his fire warrior units. We forgot to do over watch. (I've never played a game where my GKs were charged so I normally don't remember to do it.) After we're piled in and I've already started to do roll wounds he says we forgot to do over watch. He now wants to "rewind" the game and do over watch. I say it's too late for that and it's not my responsibility to keep up with things he needs to do when I declare a charge. I try not to sound like a dick. He wasn't happy and started pitching a fit.

In friendly games sometimes people do it.
After getting into combat and rolling though, I'd say that's too far gone as it has an impact directly.

No overwatch is not mandatory, but it is part of the rules so it is also your responsibility to keep up with things he needs to do when you declare a charge.

I do agree with Jackal though, after any pile in moves I think it is to difficult to "rewind" things and move the models back. But I would allow my opponent to overwatch as long as they agree that my models made it into cc regardless of any casualties the overwatch produces.

Forgetting rules etiquette.

If you allow it then he owes you one.

Lets say you then forget to bring in something from reserves after you didn't let him redo is overwatch - hes not going to let you do the deepstrike which has a way bigger impact on the game.

I've been playing for several years and every game I still forget to do things, so does my buddy.

I don't think there ever was a time that I didn't let him go back if he wanted to - usually if its gone too far he will voluntarily admit that it is too late.

I would say the only grey area is if there is a large trickle down effect - like you just won a challenge and mopped up the combat and redoing the overwatch would someone invalidate the whole thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd say outside of tournaments - as long as it is the same player turn you should allow it.

What to do when a Rule is accidentally broken is not really something we can answer, it is something you and your opponent will have to discuss should it occur.

Do keep in mind that the Rulebook does contain a way to resolve situations where two players do not agree on how to proceed, it is a process called 'rolling off.' Quite simple, both your opponent and yourself roll a single D6, re-rolling doubles until someone has the higher result. The winner decides how the situation proceeds while the looser is left deciding if they wish to continue at all and bother playing again in the future. It is not at all 'fair' but it is designed to ensure the game can keep on going... it is long enough without stopping for a half an hour argument every-time something is over-looked or a broken Rule is encountered.

As a former Tau player I can understand why he would be a little annoyed at forgetting to do Overwatch.
Overwatch is one of the few things Tau have going for them... assuming 7th didn't change it too much. They live and die by team-mates assisting them during over-watch, in attempts to keep the enemy back far enough that they would fail to make the charge distance. A Tau in Melee is a dead Tau walking.... At least offering it to the hands of fate with a Roll-off might be enough to calm your friend down enough that they don't find the rest of the game to be less then enjoyable.

Personally: The previous suggestion of resolving Overwatch immediately, but allowing the charger to decide who is wounded to ensure the Models will remain Locked in Combat. This seems like good middle ground in this situation, it allows Overwatch to still have some sort of effect but doesn't require photographic memory to wind back the Timeline. Additionally, the forgetting player is penalized to try and encourage them to remember next time. At least this could prevent them feeling cheated, when they fail to take out enough Models to prevent the slaughter that is coming.

The mistake I saw most often was people rolling charge-range then doing Overwatch.

As most other people have said, it's one to discuss with your opponent, but if it's a casual game, be casual. In my experience, overwatch is one that's easily missed, maybe because it's an action you do when it's your opponents turn. It's almost become standard with my friends to almost miss overwatch, and call it at the last second before moving models. If we do miss it, we'll generally allow it to be done as long as combat hasn't started. If the same guys misses it 3-4 times, I'll stop letting him have it - I've given him chances and he might learn if I'm not so soft on him. But to be clear, this is with good friends, not random pick up games. We always give each other stick, whilst still trying to be fair game-wise.

What you might find useful is ArbitorIan's reference sheets - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/597998.page I've been playing for ages, but still have a copy of this with me whenever I play. So I imagine it would be invaluable to fairly new players. It doesn't replace the rules, but it does give a nice, step-by-step guide for everything you'll need to do. E.g. Assault, Charge Sub-Phase: 1) Nominate Charge; 2) Overwatch; 3) Roll Charge Range etc. Follow this and you won't forget overwatch anymore.

Big thanks to ArbitorIan's work on this!

It was really too late to go back at that point and in poor taste to bring it up by him.

Simple rule of thumb is to acknowledge the error and keep playing, no do-overs. Makes you a better player when your mistakes cost.

SJ

IMO it depends on how far you have gotten. If you've only done the charge, I'd allow it. If you've already rolled To Hit and To Wound, it is too late.

Shooter.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Simple rule of thumb is to acknowledge the error and keep playing, no do-overs. Makes you a better player when your mistakes cost.

SJ

For 'may do' actions, I agree, unless you JUST missed it, and then a little mercy is fine.

For 'must do' actions, I definitely prefer to go back and do it whenever feasible.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Simple rule of thumb is to acknowledge the error and keep playing, no do-overs. Makes you a better player when your mistakes cost.

SJ

For 'may do' actions, I agree, unless you JUST missed it, and then a little mercy is fine.

For 'must do' actions, I definitely prefer to go back and do it whenever feasible.

I disagree. Its not a "re-roll". If you miss something important, learn to stop makng that mistake. Showing "mercy" robs everyone of the valuable leason that your actions and inactions have consequences, and missed opportunaties can't be done over. If forgeting a play is that important, don't forget it next game like you did this game because there is no going back, there is only going forward. Want to be a better player? Make less mistakes, learn from your errors, don't repeat them.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Simple rule of thumb is to acknowledge the error and keep playing, no do-overs. Makes you a better player when your mistakes cost.

SJ

For 'may do' actions, I agree, unless you JUST missed it, and then a little mercy is fine.

For 'must do' actions, I definitely prefer to go back and do it whenever feasible.

I disagree. Its not a "re-roll". If you miss something important, learn to stop makng that mistake. Showing "mercy" robs everyone of the valuable leason that your actions and inactions have consequences, and missed opportunaties can't be done over. If forgeting a play is that important, don't forget it next game like you did this game because there is no going back, there is only going forward. Want to be a better player? Make less mistakes, learn from your errors, don't repeat them.

SJ

In a tournament, maybe. Or if it's the assault phase and my opponent wants to go back and move the unit he forgot to in the movement phase. But something else that makes a better game is not being a doucher. If my opponent shoots the bolters in a tac squad, then declares a target for his devs, but immediately smacks his head and says he forgot to fire the grav gun in the tac squad, (before rolling any dice for the devs) I'm not going to sneer and twirl my moustache and be all, "I think not! Mwahahaha!"

And if it's a 'must-do' action, then it isn't mercy at all, it's doing your best to correct an illegal game state.

Not being a douche is to point out, "hey, you didn't fire the Grav" or "I'm going to charge that unit, do you want to Overwatch". Being a douche is expecting others to let you make mistakes because there will always be a safety net.

SJ

As long as it makes no difference, I'm OK with skipping back - but not once another action has taken place which would have relied on the effect of the missed action. So, once you've moved chargers, it's too late to overwatch them, IMO. However, at any point until I pick up and move a charging model, I'm OK with "hey, I forgot to do Overwatch fire there. Is it OK to do it now?"

I'm with the learn the lesson crowd. Many times I've made a mistake and forgot to use a psychic power, or forgot to to move or shoot a unit at something, or other mistakes. I've even forgotten special rules for things that would have turned the table in a fight. If it's right away, like still the same phase of game - ok Go back and fix it. But if you forgot to shoot and we are now doing psychic stuff - tough luck. Guess the unit was distracted by some finesquirrels. Next time you won't forget.

Squirrel Girl is some finesquirrel.

SJ

I too prefer to go back and redo 'must do' rules as much as possible. Otherwise it creates the impression you can skip them over, and seeing as some must do rules are detrimental this is unsavoury.

'May dos' I try to remind my opponent at the time, but some will complain, especially with overwatch "Hey! Stop trying to get me to overwatch your spawn instead of your lone character" type thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(reason being, if it is a 'must do' it is something I think we are both responsible for remembering)