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Hi guys

Im pretty new to the hobby and haven't played all that many games, mainly with my 1 friends who is also a noob Daemons vs GK so we joined the club and asked for a intro game to help learn all the rules and see other armies, they said we should play a doubles game us 2 vs tau and Nids, worst game fluff wise ever.

so we each had 800 points and I brought a daemon prince some seekers and a squad of daemonettes and plaguebearers with upgrades etc about 800 points my GK mate brought some termies, purifiers, a rhino librarian and a purgation squad. pretty much all our models.

The Tau dude brought fire warriors and kroot, pretty fluffy and chilled.

The nid guy brought 2 flyrants a tervigon and 30 gaunts

They go 1st and move up the field not doing too much damage and as daemons and GK we denied all their psyker stuff easy. only about 10 daemons died from all their attacks.

Our turn move up slowly since everyone is footslogging except guys in the rhino, we then get force off on everyone except the termies but no problem. shooting phase comes and we hit and wound the flyrant with a silencer hit with force giving instant death, this dude now makes up excuses that my daemons would now block line of sight etc and then says he forgot his model has 5+ FNP and not wanting to argue with the guy since we are still new it gets a save. ignoring instant death.

Game commences and they get the upperhand until warpstorm table kills his tervigon and then kills all the gaunts it spawned leaving the 3vp objective open for the rhino to go capture. then in their turn he shoots with 25 gaunt devourers but rolls 32 dice, when I asked why he rolled so many he said "oops must have miscounted" I caught him doing this the next turn again said "my bad".

Our game was taking its time and other guys started watching and asked why we didn't use force on the silencers to take down the flyrants who were on the ground and we then described our previous encounter with instant death, they all told the guy off and said he knew the rule well since he has GK's. Refused to acknowledge it had done any damage to us the whole game but it actually ruined us, refused to say the game would have been much more fair if he had died. He died next turn anyway after about 24 shots.

Last but not least when we were counting up victory points at the end of the game he changed the warlord to the flyrant who we hadn't killed and counted up the VP so it looked like they won 10-5 instead of 10-8.

very disappointed that he would do that in a beginner learn to play game, left feeling robbed. Definitely have no respect for him although the Tau guy was really awesome.

Rant over, If you read this you know who you are.

Sounds like someone I would never play again.

That part that gets me the most is that, even after winning, the dude just couldn't let you have your hard-earned 3 VP.

The fething hell?

Well that's pretty disappointing to hear, sorry that you got paired up with someone like that, especially for an intro game. I suppose this is just you venting and you might not be after advice, but here it is anyway, discard at your leisure!

I'd let him know what he did wrong and that it annoyed you a lot. If enough people tell him that he's a pain in the backside, maybe he'll change his ways, knowing that he won't be getting a game if he doesn't. Ignoring him and refusing to speak will likely produce a pretty awkward atmosphere until he leaves, telling him where things lie should push things ahead.

I hope your next game is a better one!

Don't feel bad, TFG is everywhere once you know what to look for. All you can do is try to avoid them.

 Selym wrote:
That part that gets me the most is that, even after winning, the dude just couldn't let you have your hard-earned 3 VP.

The fething hell?

But Crushing Victories are so much better!!!!

@OP At least you know who not to play. I've got several people on my list of no-plays if it can be helped (ie pickup games).

Thanks guys yeah it was a bit of a vent and I was upset about those 3 VP's. I mean im not WAAC at all but it is nicer to win a hard fought game than to lose but the repeated issues was the worst. Oh well wont be playing him again at least until I know all the rules and have a chance.

Good advice on letting him know what he did wrong maybe it will make him realise people aren't stupid, I also forgot his units were never in synapse and kept saying they were fearless... I didn't know what synapse was at the time until one of the other guys mentioned it. Oh well

That's not a TFG, that's a cheater.

Whole other level there, never play him again, even after you know the rules well. if he's doing that to new players, he does not deserve to get games, at all.

Bringing a brutal list to a small game against new guys, that's TFG.
But the FnP and warlord change, outright cheating.,

Never play again.

Yeep, I'm curious as to what the tau player was doing the whole time? Was he just hanging out and not saying anything?

The tau guy didn't know Nids either and was just going with it but did say to him that he needs to count twice for the shots with the gaunts. He was much better teaching us how the units worked and showing us the dex, he actually counted up the VP's at the end and said we had 8 not 5 haha.

What a turd. Glad this wasn't in my garage :/

Sorry about your game op, better luck finding decent people to play with next time!

I agree with Tarvitz77, while it might not be the easiest thing to do you must call these people out to their face....
Let them know why your going to refuse any game with them in the future, and if you can do so in public all the better.

IMO the game was worth to play. You were able to show your friend, who is new to the game, that opponents given chance will probably cheat. Next time he plays he will know that, if he is not 100% of something, his opponent has to show a legal GW printed pice of rules. An important lesson for the future.

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi guys

then in their turn he shoots with 25 gaunt devourers but rolls 32 dice, when I asked why he rolled so many he said "oops must have miscounted" I caught him doing this the next turn again said "my bad".

Gaunts with devourers are assault 3 and should have been able to shoot MORE than 32 (they could shoot 75 times in all)

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Ubl1k wrote:
Hi guys

then in their turn he shoots with 25 gaunt devourers but rolls 32 dice, when I asked why he rolled so many he said "oops must have miscounted" I caught him doing this the next turn again said "my bad".

Gaunts with devourers are assault 3 and should have been able to shoot MORE than 32 (they could shoot 75 times in all)

Probably meant fleshboreres.

JinxDragon wrote:
I agree with Tarvitz77, while it might not be the easiest thing to do you must call these people out to their face....
Let them know why your going to refuse any game with them in the future, and if you can do so in public all the better.

I've faced cheaters. Most of the time, I won't call them out loudly in front of everyone the moment it happens. I'll quietly tell them I know (or at least think) that's not how "it" (whatever that is) works and that I'd appreciate them showing me some rules. Sometimes, they'll resist and tell me they: "don't need to read the rules because they know them". At that point, I draw the conclusion that you're cheating willfully. If you're so[i] sure about it, you wouldn't mind showing the rules. However, sometimes people make honest mistakes.

However, there was one instance I just couldn't contain myself. It happened little over 2 months ago. We were playing a 2v2, one of our opponents was playing AM. He put a tank on the field with which me and my partner were unfamiliar with. We asked about it and says it's a Wyvern. He gives us a thorough explenation of what a wyvern does (weapons being the foremost). My and my partner have a fair grasp about what to expect from that thing and set up our army.
Two hive Tyrants, a hive crone and two daemon princes take to the sky during our first turn. We do minimal damage to their army because they had a full mech list. They start moving around and when shooting phase comes around the guy declares his HYDRA is using his Str7 AP4 skyfire guns (which was totally different from the barrage gun he explained earlier) to shoot at my Hive crone. The first thing that came out of my mouth was: "You fething what?"
Seriously, I'm a patient guy and you need to push a very specific hard to reach button to make me rage over a game of 40K, but when I specifically ask you what that model you just put on the table does and you lie to me, I can assure you did a stellar job of finding that button without too much trouble. Especially if you bring up a gakky excuse like: "It has these long cannons, of course it's a Hydra. Wyverns have short barrel cannons". Bitch I just informed you that I have NO idea what that model is, that includes its looks and I'm pretty sure you are aware of that unless you are a complete degenerate.

Yup, not playing those guys anymore.

Yeah sorry the gaunts were meant to have 1 shot each not sure what the weapons are haha, but oh well it was an invaluable lesson for us and a realisation that even in a friendly casual game people will try WAAC. thanks gents

I've had matches like this. Most notoriously:

Tournament. I've got my brand new dark eldar - fresh off the new release. Managed to make a pretty awsome army (lots of raider units, ravagers, true born etc) - took me a long time to paint - Wich was pretty decent if I figure. 1850pt tournament. Anyway, this guy drops in with demons. Having never played them or really caring enough to read Thier book I was excited to try it out. (I'd played against the fantasy version, and done ok)
First his army was really awsome paint jobs. I even commented on it. He said he bought them from some guy in the army. I'm like oh. Well they look nice.
Next he deploys half his army, including 2 soul grinder things. (Modeled standing up on 2 legs to be super high) - during the first turn these things each drop pie plates on my stuff. (One was my Hq raider I had his behind some trees, the other my "bunker unit" of 20 warriors hiding in a building. He tells me the shots don't scatter, auto wound and are ap3 no cover. I couldn't believe it - but he insisted. So I lost a huge chunk of my army.
Obviously this continued all game. - I did actually kill those things despite them havin a 4+ invun. (All his demons did) but even worse, each turn he kept "summoning" more guys. Even when i hit combat, and killed his HQ (who was in a larger unit and the only special model) - turns out it was actually "this guy with this necklace modeled on" - more summoning. (He pulled the hq switch trick)
The game ended with him obviously winning.

Afterwards we filled out scorecards. Sportsman, generalship, and painting.

I gave him medium scores in the first 2, trying to be nice but a 0 for painting - because he didn't paint his army.

During the awards, he won best general, I took second. I also snagged a half of the best sport (due to tie) he also won best painted. When I mentioned he didn't paint his army- it was bought, he lost it. Said he did so paint it, look at my stuff, better then yours BLAH blah blah. TO said can't change the awards. But then at the behest of This ....f..... Guy - he yanks my sportsmanship award Because i was "trying to blacklist" this guy.

I found out later he was totally cheating with his demons, and on top was actually well over the points limit. Closer to 2100. Really pissed me off because I would have had decent odds to win the tourney if that idiot didn't pull his stunts.

But TFG ...

Feel No Pain can't be taken against Instant Death anyway.

 DarthSpader wrote:
I've had matches like this. Most notoriously:

Tournament. I've got my brand new dark eldar - fresh off the new release. Managed to make a pretty awsome army (lots of raider units, ravagers, true born etc) - took me a long time to paint - Wich was pretty decent if I figure. 1850pt tournament. Anyway, this guy drops in with demons. Having never played them or really caring enough to read Thier book I was excited to try it out. (I'd played against the fantasy version, and done ok)
First his army was really awsome paint jobs. I even commented on it. He said he bought them from some guy in the army. I'm like oh. Well they look nice.
Next he deploys half his army, including 2 soul grinder things. (Modeled standing up on 2 legs to be super high) - during the first turn these things each drop pie plates on my stuff. (One was my Hq raider I had his behind some trees, the other my "bunker unit" of 20 warriors hiding in a building. He tells me the shots don't scatter, auto wound and are ap3 no cover. I couldn't believe it - but he insisted. So I lost a huge chunk of my army.
Obviously this continued all game. - I did actually kill those things despite them havin a 4+ invun. (All his demons did) but even worse, each turn he kept "summoning" more guys. Even when i hit combat, and killed his HQ (who was in a larger unit and the only special model) - turns out it was actually "this guy with this necklace modeled on" - more summoning. (He pulled the hq switch trick)
The game ended with him obviously winning.

Afterwards we filled out scorecards. Sportsman, generalship, and painting.

I gave him medium scores in the first 2, trying to be nice but a 0 for painting - because he didn't paint his army.

During the awards, he won best general, I took second. I also snagged a half of the best sport (due to tie) he also won best painted. When I mentioned he didn't paint his army- it was bought, he lost it. Said he did so paint it, look at my stuff, better then yours BLAH blah blah. TO said can't change the awards. But then at the behest of This ....f..... Guy - he yanks my sportsmanship award Because i was "trying to blacklist" this guy.

I found out later he was totally cheating with his demons, and on top was actually well over the points limit. Closer to 2100. Really pissed me off because I would have had decent odds to win the tourney if that idiot didn't pull his stunts.

But TFG ...

Honestly, it seems like the TO didn't care about this guy's cheating, especially if you pointed out what happened and he did nothing about it. I wouldn't play in any more tournaments run by that TO, especially if the cheater is there. You should have probably told them both off, loudly, especially after the sportsmanship award got taken from you (nothing to lose at that point).

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, OP. However, you can learn something from everybody you play against, whether it be what to do or what not to do. Remember the things opponents do that makes a game more enjoyable or what somebody does that annoys you/is illegal.

 DarthSpader wrote:
I've had matches like this. Most notoriously:

Tournament. I've got my brand new dark eldar - fresh off the new release. Managed to make a pretty awsome army (lots of raider units, ravagers, true born etc) - took me a long time to paint - Wich was pretty decent if I figure. 1850pt tournament. Anyway, this guy drops in with demons. Having never played them or really caring enough to read Thier book I was excited to try it out. (I'd played against the fantasy version, and done ok)
First his army was really awsome paint jobs. I even commented on it. He said he bought them from some guy in the army. I'm like oh. Well they look nice.
Next he deploys half his army, including 2 soul grinder things. (Modeled standing up on 2 legs to be super high) - during the first turn these things each drop pie plates on my stuff. (One was my Hq raider I had his behind some trees, the other my "bunker unit" of 20 warriors hiding in a building. He tells me the shots don't scatter, auto wound and are ap3 no cover. I couldn't believe it - but he insisted. So I lost a huge chunk of my army.
Obviously this continued all game. - I did actually kill those things despite them havin a 4+ invun. (All his demons did) but even worse, each turn he kept "summoning" more guys. Even when i hit combat, and killed his HQ (who was in a larger unit and the only special model) - turns out it was actually "this guy with this necklace modeled on" - more summoning. (He pulled the hq switch trick)
The game ended with him obviously winning.

Afterwards we filled out scorecards. Sportsman, generalship, and painting.

I gave him medium scores in the first 2, trying to be nice but a 0 for painting - because he didn't paint his army.

During the awards, he won best general, I took second. I also snagged a half of the best sport (due to tie) he also won best painted. When I mentioned he didn't paint his army- it was bought, he lost it. Said he did so paint it, look at my stuff, better then yours BLAH blah blah. TO said can't change the awards. But then at the behest of This ....f..... Guy - he yanks my sportsmanship award Because i was "trying to blacklist" this guy.

I found out later he was totally cheating with his demons, and on top was actually well over the points limit. Closer to 2100. Really pissed me off because I would have had decent odds to win the tourney if that idiot didn't pull his stunts.

But TFG ...

....... Lol, complains you are trying to blacklist him, complains about this that and the other thing, takes your sportmanship award. Should've shot him with some soul grinders.

Sounds about right. Play age of Sigmar guys. They're chill as $#@%.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Sounds about right. Play age of Sigmar guys. They're chill as $#@%.

Of course they are. They know if they complain about their game, GW will blow up the setting!

Just kidding--the game does seem to attract/encourage a chill attitude.

 DarthSpader wrote:
I've had matches like this. Most notoriously:

Tournament. I've got my brand new dark eldar - fresh off the new release. Managed to make a pretty awsome army (lots of raider units, ravagers, true born etc) - took me a long time to paint - Wich was pretty decent if I figure. 1850pt tournament. Anyway, this guy drops in with demons. Having never played them or really caring enough to read Thier book I was excited to try it out. (I'd played against the fantasy version, and done ok)
First his army was really awsome paint jobs. I even commented on it. He said he bought them from some guy in the army. I'm like oh. Well they look nice.
Next he deploys half his army, including 2 soul grinder things. (Modeled standing up on 2 legs to be super high) - during the first turn these things each drop pie plates on my stuff. (One was my Hq raider I had his behind some trees, the other my "bunker unit" of 20 warriors hiding in a building. He tells me the shots don't scatter, auto wound and are ap3 no cover. I couldn't believe it - but he insisted. So I lost a huge chunk of my army.
Obviously this continued all game. - I did actually kill those things despite them havin a 4+ invun. (All his demons did) but even worse, each turn he kept "summoning" more guys. Even when i hit combat, and killed his HQ (who was in a larger unit and the only special model) - turns out it was actually "this guy with this necklace modeled on" - more summoning. (He pulled the hq switch trick)
The game ended with him obviously winning.

Afterwards we filled out scorecards. Sportsman, generalship, and painting.

I gave him medium scores in the first 2, trying to be nice but a 0 for painting - because he didn't paint his army.

During the awards, he won best general, I took second. I also snagged a half of the best sport (due to tie) he also won best painted. When I mentioned he didn't paint his army- it was bought, he lost it. Said he did so paint it, look at my stuff, better then yours BLAH blah blah. TO said can't change the awards. But then at the behest of This ....f..... Guy - he yanks my sportsmanship award Because i was "trying to blacklist" this guy.

I found out later he was totally cheating with his demons, and on top was actually well over the points limit. Closer to 2100. Really pissed me off because I would have had decent odds to win the tourney if that idiot didn't pull his stunts.

But TFG ...

This is when you have them show you the rules for the unit they are using, if they object insist that it seems powerful and you would like to see the rules. Stay polite when doing it but question anything that seems to good to be true, sometimes they are cheating sometimes they read it wrong.

There is one player around where I live who has a very bad habit of rolling dice out of line of sight(behind cover/ruins) with smaller dice and pulls off amazing rolls and then quickly scoops dice... Part of my counter to dealing with him is teaching new players to roll in the open and to only pickup failures from a dice roll. If debate arises if something was a success the dice are still on the table to look at. These new players then start expecting other players who play in a more sketchy manner to follow suite and generally when a new player makes a comment about a less ethical practice players listen more to avoid being the guy who cheats against new players.

Sorry to hear about that, OP. I've had several encounters with TFG and just refuse to play them again. Sounds like the Tau player was pretty decent, maybe get in some more games against him?

I'd just avoid the Nid player, those types of people never change, even after being caught flat out cheating/lying.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Sorry to hear about that, OP. I've had several encounters with TFG and just refuse to play them again. Sounds like the Tau player was pretty decent, maybe get in some more games against him?

I'd just avoid the Nid player, those types of people never change, even after being caught flat out cheating/lying.

To give hope, they can change. My first game against a guy where he saw I was running 500 points of orks on foot and decided to run pask + punisher. He did this a few times with list tailoring until I told him that I think that's unsportsman like. Now he comes to the store with pre-built lists and is one of my favorite opponents. So maybe talking with the tyranid player will yield better results than you think, you'll never know until you try.

Yea I actually did ask him for his rule book at one point. He declined saying he didn't want me "mucking up" his book. - pointing out that my rule book was a tad beaten up. (it was over a year old and seen about 2 games a week to that point. Was very well read)
When I told him ok just show me the rules his response was pretty much "I don't have time to teach noobs how to play. Learn the rules or don't come to tourneys"

And to my knowlege neither the TO or this guy have been spotted around the local gaming scene in quite a while. TFG has also been barred from more then one Lgs in the area. - aparently he dosent "play well with others"

Good, cheaters deserve to be banned I enjoy the game whether I win or lose but a well fought fair loss is 100x better than having cheated your way to victory...

Agreed. Why cheat? I mean do you REALLY just HAVE to win a game of toy soldiers? If that's the case and it matters that much to you just tell me "hey it's super important for my self esteem and if I lose I might kill myself" - and I'll be like ok. Looks like I lose. You win good game.

Then i get the heck as far as possible away from you. I don't wanna be around when something snaps and you decide to start wearing pasta as a hat while flinging chunks of cabbage at people because they make the satellites more focused ...Or worse.