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I was playing a small game the other day, first time using a Psyker (I used to run Black Templars), and I rolled Invisibility on the chart. Now, I am fully aware how broken the power is, and since my opponent had no real way to deny it (Dark Eldar), I defaulted it to the Primaris. (I was running an ML2 Libby with 2 separate disciplines, so no Psychic focus for him).

Are there any such things that you downplay? Formations, Decurions, anything you feel guilty about using?

Personally, I don't see how spamming one power reflects good Generalship.

-Izzy

When I played, I would always use the Decurion (Necrons), mainly because I like the fluff behind it and it makes my army feel more like Necrons, but I would always refrain from using Destroyers or Wraiths unless my opponent was bringing an equally strong list or requested that I did. Too many times they just steamrolled through everything, and it wasn't fun for either side.

I use CAD normally.

I find Invisibiliy fine when you house rule it to 'Any unit that makes a shooting/melee attack against this unit must do so at BS1/WS1).

There's also the whole 'talk with your opponent' but I find a lot of people in my meta forgo talking in favour of rules-bickering, cheese-mongering, curb-stomping, list-tailoring, etc.

Completely stopped pickup games for that reason.

I tend to bring multiple list with me to "downplay" or tone down for certain opponents. I play dark angels so I have a variety of things to field.

A few examples:
Against a harder opponents (7.5 ed codex, powerfull list, ect) I will bring ravenwing. Lots of bikes, 2+ rerollable jink, grav and melta everywhere. This would be mean against older codexes or more casual lists.

Against semi casual mid to high tier list, I'll bring bikes, but leave the dark shroud. Only one unit of rwbk/rwcs. And if they don't have formations, I won't use my formation bonuses(I would avoid formations, but it is basically necessary to take them to run ravenwing). I'll use plasma in lue of grav, and sprinkle some scouts and non bike units.

Against lower tier codexes and more casual lists, I'll just bring green wing and/or deathwing. I actually enjoy being able to field lots of tac/terminators and still have a good close game. I'll also go formation light, usually just to do terminators, or a single demi company just so it is fluffy.

I enjoy close games, and my opponent enjoying the game helps me enjoy the game. I can still have a lot of fun on a loss as long as the game itself is good, and I have a good fun opponent.

With my Tzeentch Daemons, I'll typically ask my opponent if there's some things they'd prefer me to leave at home, such as if my LoC rolls up Precognition, and/or restricting my Malefic Tzherald to only being able to cast the basic Summoning power.
For the Hellforged Artifacts, I'll also agree to leave the 'Good Book'(tm) at home if my opponent would prefer it. In fact, it's really fun to instead play around with some of the other artifacts from time to time, especially the Eternal Beatstick on my Chicken!

I won't take very kindly however to demands that I cap my WC's in any way, since that rather ruthlessly curtails almost all my shooting ability, as well as the buffs my army relies on to basically survive. (especially if I've already agreed to not take the Grimoire!) I don't care if my opponent has Dark Eldar or Tau or just a basic IoM army with no psykers... Daemons don't get guns in general, and the Psychic phase helps in part to double up as our Shooting phase.
I only use typically a single Malefic Tzherald, and if my opponent really wants, I'm fine agreeing to restricting myself to just the basic Summoning power... (mostly I use him for Cursed Earth anyways.)


With my Chaos Marines, I'm usually the one asking opponents to tone their lists down for obvious reasons.

Though I have everything necessary to run it, I never play War Convocation as it's just unfair (personally don't like rules that make wargear/units free) and more or less pay-to-win which I don't personally agree with. It also doesn't really fit the vision I have for my army.

When I play with my Ultramarines I never run more than 1 demi-company, as I don't really like getting lots and lots of transports for free.

I've only ever played one dakka Flyrant and always will. I do sometimes ask if i should downgrade it to a CC Flyrant.

Bringing linear comp lists all the time is meh.

I do downplay at times, especially with newer players, either in points, formations or units. I find that by handicapping myself by 500 points (say 2k vs 1500 or even 1500 vs 1k) and leaving the grav at home, the game is a lot closer without having to avoid trying to win.

I don't take FNP on my Riptide.

Also if I'm stuffing my opponent I'll not notice if my opponent moves a 'long' 6" or rolls a favourable cocked dice etc.

My group just has a "don't be a dick" agreement where nobody uses the real cheesy stuff, like free transport formations and Invisibility.

I play Eldar. Downplaying is what I do just to get games. Normally I just use a Guardian Battlehost + Aspect Host with Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, and Warp Spiders + Nightspinner.

Keeps the flavor of Eldar, without going overboard on my opponent.

Take what you want. You paid your money for the models paint and books. Your time spent modeling and painting. Why change your plans because someone else can't deal?

If the other guy has an issue with your stuff - that's his problem. He either needs to learn how to deal with it or accept the loss.

No shame in running stuff you enjoy. - just don't be a dick about it. If you win - shake hands, say good game, don't be a rule mongering ass when it comes to stuff - if it's a close call on something default to the other guys call, let him roll mission, deployment etc. Generally be a nice guy. It should still be a fun game. But I firmly believe that a person should be able to play whatever and however they want. Especially if they are spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on an army. The time and dollar cost is your penance for your choice. Don't let someone else dictate you can't use it. Unless they are paying for the army, they have zero input.

Wow. This stuff is pretty crazy. Luckily for me, there's a lot of strong players in my meta so I don't have to put any cushions on my lists.

Izural wrote:
I was playing a small game the other day, first time using a Psyker (I used to run Black Templars), and I rolled Invisibility on the chart. Now, I am fully aware how broken the power is, and since my opponent had no real way to deny it (Dark Eldar), I defaulted it to the Primaris. (I was running an ML2 Libby with 2 separate disciplines, so no Psychic focus for him).

Are there any such things that you downplay? Formations, Decurions, anything you feel guilty about using?

Personally, I don't see how spamming one power reflects good Generalship.

-Izzy

Well the ITC nerf to Invisibility at least makes it not nearly as broken so i guess it depends on whether you like that ruling or not?

If I play a new player I bring less than optimal units and will generally play 100+ points down, so a 1750 vs their 1850, and purposefully will not take units like flyers if I know they lack AA.

Never seen anyone ever do something like that. Not when playing with new players, not when playing people from other groups. Don't even know how it suppose to even work. How is the opposing player suppose to test his army, if the opposing build is played the wrong way. That would be like using some sort of bogus house rule or something.

I dont think the goal is always testing. Sometimes the goal is to establish the tone of the relationship. And if it turns out the steps weren't needed, you can alweays fix that! Going in the other direction? A little harder to do...

At my FGLS (and, as far as I'm concerned, in most tournaments around here) we play Invisibility as Shrouded + Stealth, nothing more, nothing less.

It's what we've decided to do, and honestly that spell is so overpowered in its RAW form that pretending to play it RAW, while not actively "shunned", would be usually considered WAAC behaviour.

I'd stop short of characterizing someone for using Invis as WAAC. i think plenty of people... Like a lot... dont play near as often as I do and for them it might be their only chance! They are hoping and praying it tips the scale and maybe it will.

I dont like the spell at all the way its written either. Despise it. But I dont despise people who use it. I DO ask them to play it the nerf'd way if they are willing though. A lot of people feel that its a very fair compromise to just go WS and BS 1. Much more fair I think.

People who play more frequently should most definitely agree to the nerf.

My friend and I have agreed to just not use it in a friendly game, if you get it just reroll

Boom. that works too.

We sat down and realized that without it we just have more fun in casual games, that and he did not want to fight an invisible warhound.

I don't get the "invisibility give you ws1 and bs1".
Is it to allow/enable people to shoot at invisible units with templates ?
But doesn't it make template totally immune to invisibility ?
I mean, I don't care for the BS with a flamer.
So, basically, you cast a totally useless power against Leman Russ, vindicators, flamers, thunderfire etc etc
No ?

 godardc wrote:
I don't get the "invisibility give you ws1 and bs1".
Is it to allow/enable people to shoot at invisible units with templates ?
But doesn't it make template totally immune to invisibility ?
I mean, I don't care for the BS with a flamer.
So, basically, you cast a totally useless power against Leman Russ, vindicators, flamers, thunderfire etc etc
No ?

Invisibility forces units shooting at the invisible squads to snap fire. You can't snap fire with blast or template weapons.

Yeah I know, but people say they house rule it to make the enemy shooting at your invisible unit bs 1/attacking your unit ws1 instead of snapshoting/ hitting on a 6.
I was curious to know why, what is the goal

 godardc wrote:
Yeah I know, but people say they house rule it to make the enemy shooting at your invisible unit bs 1/attacking your unit ws1 instead of snapshoting/ hitting on a 6.
I was curious to know why, what is the goal

The goal is that it's unbelievably stupid for certain weapons to be unable to fire at all against invisible units, especially when those weapons are the ones a "real" unit would find most effective against a target they can't see clearly.

 Peregrine wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Yeah I know, but people say they house rule it to make the enemy shooting at your invisible unit bs 1/attacking your unit ws1 instead of snapshoting/ hitting on a 6.
I was curious to know why, what is the goal

The goal is that it's unbelievably stupid for certain weapons to be unable to fire at all against invisible units, especially when those weapons are the ones a "real" unit would find most effective against a target they can't see clearly.

Personally I feel that nerfing all shooting to BS1 is enough to make Invis not broken - leave the "hit only on 6's in assaults" alone. It successfully opens up the invisible unit to what should be it's natural counters - namely fire (template weapons especially).

However, WS1 isn't that huge a disadvantage, as it only typically reduces a unit/model's hit rate by 16-33% of what it would normally be. And with the ease of gaining re-rolls nowadays, (Divination, Zealot, Hatred, Prefered Enemy, etc...), being forced to hit on 5's isn't that huge an issue.
If anything, Invis should add the ability for the invisible unit to also ignore the effects of charging into cover! It would definitely make it the more assault oriented augment it's really meant to be.

 Brother SRM wrote:
My group just has a "don't be a dick" agreement where nobody uses the real cheesy stuff, like free transport formations and Invisibility.

More or less this, although for us it's more 'don't be a dick all the time'... It's fun to take the broken stuff sometimes... It just gets old when you face the same broken stuff in every single game. So if something in a list smashes face regularly, we'll give it a rest and throw something else in from time to time to keep things interesting.

I have a Devastator squad with 4 Grav Cannons and a Combi-Grav. I like to mount them in a Drop Pod, to do a Black Templar style big guns thing. Ofc, I only use them against a deserving opponent, one with lots of wins, or one with a blatantly OP MC or GMC.