New GW Specialist Studio - Including LOTR, Epic, BB, BFG - Small scale Warlord Titan by FW (one-off)

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**nedTCM**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Man, there are some seriously jaded folks here.
"Bring back specialist games! This sucks!"
"Hey guys, we're bringing back specialist games!"
"Psh, no you're not. Lies. Don't believe it."

I mean, GW has done a lot that hasn't thrilled me, but I believe in rewarding good behavior, and they're actually trying to be good right now (bringing back specialists, multiple new board games at reasonable prices that are real 40k models...).

Some of you guys are making me feel real dirty for siding with the white knights on this one!!

It is sometimes surprising just how much people hate GW to the core, but you can't say it wasn't manufactured.

Really that aren't bring very good though. The price of regular models is super high. Rules for multiple systems are in the toilet. They still have updated most of their neglected factions. And the best communication we have gotten from them in years is some random facebook page or two from specific stores. And we don't know jack about these SG they are releasing. Some one on 4chan was like get ready for AOS Blood Bowl now with more Marines! However, that is actually one of the better things that could happen. A bunch of watered down board game that it just there to generate model sales for the main lines would be a huge let down.

It is kind of silly to get too optimistic is all. It is nice news, but I will be excited when I see something more concrete.

**His Master's Voice**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
[Not seeing any real evidence of the return of specialist games here. FW and Lotr/hobbit news, yes. SG? wild and rampant speculation.

Two store managers mentioned SGs. A bit more than wild and rampant speculation, right?

**RoperPG**

Timezone shenanigans aside, Wondering if the fact UK/Europe still appear to be waiting on a source for this is because the majority of the AoS backlash/'ragequitting' of GW seems to be focussed in US/Aus/NZ.
'Official' leaking in those areas to try and head off people abandoning GW totally...?

**Herzlos**

I think it's more that people have seen enough of GW to be skeptical that they'd actually do something the customers want.

Like I said though, it's possible they have realised it's a good idea, it's also possible they've hit a good idea by accident. Most likely it's a communications mistake somewhere.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

His Master's Voice wrote:
Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
[Not seeing any real evidence of the return of specialist games here. FW and Lotr/hobbit news, yes. SG? wild and rampant speculation.

Two store managers mentioned SGs. A bit more than wild and rampant speculation, right?

Store managers know less about what's going on than we do. 1 didn't outright say they'd be coming, just asked if we'd be interested. This could easily be a huge fethup.

Edit: Reading between the (bold) lines, hastings is confirming it. I'll remain pessimistic but I'm putting some money aside for Blood Bowl.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Crazyterran wrote:
What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.

Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.

GW's chapterhouse's legal case was without a shadow of a doubt, the worst legal transaction since the Native Americans sold New York for two glass beads and a moth eaten blanket to the Dutch!

GW's defence was basically if it's on a Space Marine, we own the copyright, even if it's a Roman numeral!

It was that bad.

Leaving aside GW's incompetence, has anybody forgotten their shabby treatment of retailers? Ask Mikhalia about GW's strategy to generate interest ahead of their AOS launch.

GW: We've got this super duper new release out on Saturday.

Mikhalia: That's very short notice, but I'll try my best to build terrain, generate interest, get some tables up and running and organise a launch night. What is this new product?

GW: We can't tell you, except it's coming out on Saturday.

Mikhalia: Can you give me a clue? Is it dice, paints, a game? Donald Trump's new toupee?

GW: We can't tell, you, sorry, but it's awesome.

Mikhalia: Throw me a bone, let me make you some money. Tell me what it is and I'll pre-order 5 million copies in! I'll build interest, get my local community excited about this.

GW: Sorry.

Mikhali: It's Saturday, and nobody gives a

about AOS because nobody knew it was coming out...

KOW: Hi Mikhalia, our new game's coming out, and we've got loads to tell you about it and we want retailers like you to get involved big time.

See the difference...

**Graphite**

zedmeister wrote:
Graphite wrote:
How about making a specialist fantasy game of massed army combat, with ranks, files etc? That'd be pretty cool. I believe that they may already have something that they discontinued and could just reprint.

That'd be Warmaster.

Ok, granted.

No reason they couldn't have two, though... one of which still has the rulebooks up on Black Library.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Vermis wrote:
Silent Puffin? wrote:
Mymearan wrote:

- Would SO play Epic. Love the idea of 40k-scale battles in a miniature scale that actually makes sense.

There is nothing stopping you playing it now. The rules are easily found online and if you pick Marines/Orks/Guard then its not all that expensive, especially with third party stuff such as:

My club plays more Epic than anything else.

This. The SGs are already out there. No need to rip out a kidney to appease the GW idol. The actual minis - or suitable minis - might be less forthcoming, but there are people working on them all the time, at the mo.

I had a small, official, Space Marine Army for Epic. I sold it so I could rebuild it with Troublemaker and Onslaught miniatures. I still will, even if this clattery rumour turns out to be true.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Part of me wants to run through the streets shouting with joy at this news...

but then again, part of me remembers GW's shameful attacks on Chapterhouse, their contempt for customers and independent retailers, and the big you they've been giving the wargames community these past years.

Years ago, pre-internet, when GW were the top dog, they brought these games out, and then let them wither away and die, and now, here we are in a climate when GW are posting a financial loss year after year, and under attack from various new companies, and these games are 'supposed' to be coming out again?

And yet, strangely, people are not worried that these games won't die out again?

If they couldn't afford to support them years ago when they were number 1, then they sure as hell can't support them now. People will get burned again, it's GW.

I must say I'm also disappointed in the dakka community. People seem to have short memories of GW's attitude to the wargames community.

GW dangle the possibility of BFG under people's noses and suddenly all is forgiven?

I'm disgusted, if I'm being honest.

A bit hyperbolic maybe, but y'know, I get it. Especially when people start e-running around like headless chickens, calling the fantastic rush of new games 'SG clones' etc. as if GW is the one, true, games publisher. I guess all it takes is GW to mutter: "Ah'm sorry, baby. Ah di'n't mean tuh get so mad, but you make me do it..."

Akshullee, no, that's not quite accurate. This is a case of a friend of a friend of GW's, muttering "Ah'm sure he's sorry, ma'am. Ah wud guess he di'n't mean to take on so, but he's so crazy ovuh you..."

Mymearan wrote:
Also I don't really have any moral qualms in the case of GW, there are so many companies doing FAR worse things in other sectors, things that kill people, cause irreversible damage to the environment etc, so copyright bullying over miniatures is pretty low on my list of grudges.

Is Volkswagen the new Ferrari?

10penceman wrote:
As for rereleaseing epic 40k it was the worst game in gw history release the old epic this is not good news

It all seems half a**Ed

This isn't rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic 40K.

It's rampant fan speculation that they're rereleasing Epic: Armeg - beg pardon - Armageddon.

Agreed with that last bit, though.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Not having a go at you, but I remember the Chapterhouse thread and the hand wringing from dakka members about 'evil' GW, but now it's all yeah, I hate them, I hate them so much I'm going to show how much I hate them by walking into their stores and buying their stuff. That'll show them.

Do me a favour.

I remember plenty of stuff like that, even without the Chapterhouse thing. It was always 'I'm gonna stop buying from GW! Just as soon as I've finished my 19,732pts of Space Marines..."

I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback, to be honest. Back when they were first canned I really hoped GW would rethink it's decision. But now, so much water's gone under the bridge that this gossip of a hint of a rumour of some guy down the pecking order actually fills me with some sort of dread. I would be interested if SG somehow made a comeback - but I'd want anyone other than GW to make it happen.

It's not for me to tell people what to buy and not to buy, but it's a very sad day for dakk if somebody like myself is occupying the moral high ground! Never though I'd live to see that.

**Silent Puffin?**

Yodhrin wrote:
..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....

Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.

Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.

As for GW's morality well they are certainly prone to doing dubious things but then I am not likely to be buying anything from them, except perhaps if the full range of Epic minis were re-released. As GW abandoned the field years ago other companies have moved in, to the extent that its now possible to get proxies for just about anything in the former SG ranges.

I am currently building a 4000 point Epic Ork army and only about 10% of it will be GW models and that's only because I already own them.

**Mymearan**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
What if I don't care about chapterhouse? I'm willing to be most people don't, and will be happy to see a game they loved or never got to try will be coming back.

Hell, I'm willing to bet most people who play 40k or consume GW products don't even know who chapterhouse was.

GW's chapterhouse's legal case was without a shadow of a doubt, the worst legal transaction since the Native Americans sold New York for two glass beads and a moth eaten blanket to the Dutch!

GW's defence was basically if it's on a Space Marine, we own the copyright, even if it's a Roman numeral!

It was that bad.

Leaving aside GW's incompetence, has anybody forgotten their shabby treatment of retailers? Ask Mikhalia about GW's strategy to generate interest ahead of their AOS launch.

GW: We've got this super duper new release out on Saturday.

Mikhalia: That's very short notice, but I'll try my best to build terrain, generate interest, get some tables up and running and organise a launch night. What is this new product?

GW: We can't tell you, except it's coming out on Saturday.

Mikhalia: Can you give me a clue? Is it dice, paints, a game? Donald Trump's new toupee?

GW: We can't tell, you, sorry, but it's awesome.

Mikhalia: Throw me a bone, let me make you some money. Tell me what it is and I'll pre-order 5 million copies in! I'll build interest, get my local community excited about this.

GW: Sorry.

Mikhali: It's Saturday, and nobody gives a about AOS because nobody knew it was coming out...

KOW: Hi Mikhalia, our new game's coming out, and we've got loads to tell you about it and we want retailers like you to get involved big time.

See the difference...

The only reason I would care about that stuff is because it decreases sales and fosters resentment in the community, driving players away. Morally, like I said earlier, there are MUCH worse things to be outraged about.

**zedmeister**

Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

zedmeister wrote:
Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...

Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?

**notprop**

And SG2: A New Dawn would go some way to repair damage done but whatever perceived antics have gone on before.

I could also give GW a Budget/Veteran route that many perceive they don't have.

Epic/Warmaster blisters for £8-10 could do this, although the 25 unit (2000 point) undead horde I was using last night might not fit the term budget!

**nekooni**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....

Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.

Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.

As for GW's morality well they are certainly prone to doing dubious things but then I am not likely to be buying anything from them, except perhaps if the full range of Epic minis were re-released. As GW abandoned the field years ago other companies have moved in, to the extent that its now possible to get proxies for just about anything in the former SG ranges.

I am currently building a 4000 point Epic Ork army and only about 10% of it will be GW models and that's only because I already own them.

They're specifically aiming to have battles roughly the size of BFG. If BFG is just re-released, I believe that DfC will be the better game. If they actually come up with a reworked, modern ruleset for BFG that offers something unique and make new high quality models in resin or plastic (including new designs), I'd be REALLY happy to have two awesome space fleet combat games.

**zedmeister**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
zedmeister wrote:
Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...

Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?

75hastings69 - Total rumors: (102 TRUE) / (30 FALSE) / (3 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

(Most of the Falses are around the Blood Bowl rumours which could end up being proved true!)

Don't confuse him for Larry "Clickbait" Vela of BoL(locks) fame...

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

zedmeister wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
zedmeister wrote:
Alright, so one of the bods I asked earlier has backtracked a bit and has cryptically referred to Hastings post on Warseer...

Apologies if I'm mixing Hastings up with someone else, but isn't this the same Hastings guy who's predictions are so bad, he would struggle to predict snow in winter?

75hastings69 - Total rumors: (102 TRUE) / (30 FALSE) / (3 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)

Don't confuse him for Larry "Clickbait" Vela of BoL(locks) fame...

Hastings, if you're reading this, my apologies. I'll buy you a drink sometime as compensation

**RiTides**

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
So Hastings ramblings on warseer seem to imply the following

- new department for specialist games as part of FW
- department was responsible for new HH game
- will be responsible for lotr/hobbit
- have access to plastic design/tooling for releases
- would be the department that releases any further new properties/properties reborn

Do you have a quote / link to this so I can update the OP?

**Warhams-77**

It is in these threads

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414990-Specialist-Games-are-back-What-if

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414985-Specialist-Games-quot-Reboot-quot

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Asked my local GW manager this morning if the Aus stuff was true and he said he hadn't heard anything, but did note it was early in the day.

He just added 'better get out your tap dancing shoes' to the post, nothing else, but I know him well enough, that he wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't seen something that marks this as true.

**Gitkikka**

A few things -

1. Looks like GW realized that they could try to get some of the money that they're not making from the Oldhammer movement,

2. There is no way I'd be interested in specialist stuff at modern GW prices.

Which brings me to

3. For me, these games never left - Except for BFG, they're all on my shelves.

**Hanskrampf**

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Asked my local GW manager this morning if the Aus stuff was true and he said he hadn't heard anything, but did note it was early in the day.

He just added 'better get out your tap dancing shoes' to the post, nothing else, but I know him well enough, that he wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't seen something that marks this as true.

Now I really want more infos.

**Tannhauser42**

If BFG really is coming back, I will be very happy. And if it means Forgeworld will do a 30K supplement for it with some models of the various legion flagships, I will pee myself.

**Yodhrin**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
..... & Dropfleet doesn't have anywhere near the sense of scale.....

Dropfleet will probably feature larger fleets than BFG did, with the same number of elements on the board with the addition of planetary landings. It arguably has a better sense of scale than BFG does and physically the models will be about the same size.

Dropzone on the other hand feels significantly 'smaller' than Epic, not least because the model count is a lot smaller but then it is10mm.

I meant "sense of scale" in more poetic terms; when I play a game of BFG I'm controlling a fleet of ships that are kilometres-long, commanding crews that number in the tens of thousands, throwing away attack craft markers that represent whole squadrons and unleashing torpedoes the size of skyscrapers by the dozen. In fluff terms, BFG battles can decide the fate of whole sectors of space, Dropfleet seems to be equivalent to taking command of a couple of escorts and some troop landers during one single wave of a planetary assault. There's nothing wrong with it if that's what you're into, but I enjoy that "grand armada" feeling even if mechanically there's not a huge amount of difference beyond one game playing out on a starfield table and the other a high-orbit-planet-texture table.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
If BFG really is coming back, I will be very happy. And if it means Forgeworld will do a 30K supplement for it with some models of the various legion flagships, I will pee myself.

Well, I hope you're rich, because if GW's track record is anything to go buy, you'll be paying $100 per ship

**judgedoug**

Just to add information:

all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.

This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.

**455_PWR**

Makes sense to have fw take over the hobbit/lotr. Fine cast is ending and much of the range is finecast. My smaug is forgeworld quality if not better, and looks like that is where it came from.

Not sure about the lot plastics though, I am assuming gw would still be making these.

I have spent a cap ton of lotr this past month as I thought the game was becoming extinct (and it is such a good game with balance!). Looks like I can finally curb my lot spending just in time for the holidays.

**Mymearan**

Can't they make new molds?

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

judgedoug wrote:
Just to add information:

all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned. The last metal figure was cast in late 2011. Most of the molds of sculpts of metal items that did not transition to Finecast have been destroyed, and are gone, forever. And ever.

This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.

Which would mean a lot of start up costs for new moulds, I presume? And those moulds aren't cheap if memory serves.

GW is cash strapped as it is - I can't see this happening.

AOS seems to be going down quicker than the Titanic and nostalgia for BFG will only take them so far.

Nah, I'm writing this off on cost grounds.

**His Master's Voice**

judgedoug wrote:
This would imply any new specialist games would be entirely plastic, or entirely new sculpts for Finecast.

I assume you mean FW resin. Isn't finecast being phased out of production too?

Warhams-77 wrote:
It is in these threads

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414990-Specialist-Games-are-back-What-if

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414985-Specialist-Games-quot-Reboot-quot

Well, Hastings says the unofficial leaflet is true, spelling errors and all. Good enough for me.

**infinite_array**

Gitkikka wrote:
A few things -

1. Looks like GW realized that they could try to get some of the money that they're not making from the Oldhammer movement,

2. There is no way I'd be interested in specialist stuff at modern GW prices.

Which brings me to

3. For me, these games never left - Except for BFG, they're all on my shelves.

I think that's what worries me so much about this announcement.

The first is that we may see these rules updated by GW's current team. The only reason they've stood the test of time and been popular despite the lack of direct support is because the rules are still pretty good (since they were written by all the Old Guard). Can you imagine GW's current bunch of no-names trying to update Blood Bowl? Or BFG?

The second is the prices. Like the HH in plastic, this is another "smash in case of emergency" option by GW, and I'd put money down that we'll see stuff like 5 plastic 6mm Leman Russ' for $50, or Space Marine battle group in 6mm for $150.

**Zywus**

judgedoug wrote:
Just to add information:

all metal castings equipment was destroyed, all metal casting facilities abandoned..

According to who?
Not necessarily doubting you but it seams rather wasteful to destroy casting equipment instead of simply selling it off.