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 the_Armyman wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
So, the things they shouldn't keep secret like new releases: one week advance notice. A new company division that doesn't even exist and has no products to show for months: shoddy FB announcement.

No one is doubting this isn't happening, just some of us can't understand the bubbly enthusiasm for the oncoming headlights.

How else do they do it?

They have no centralised social media, it wouldn't be appropriate for the website, because that's now "the web store" and this news isn't directly related to a new release.

The only other real option would have been via the app, and I'm guessing disseminating the info via the stores FB pages has a wider reach.

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

They have multiple webstores and two printed publications. You really can't think of a better way they could have announced this? Really?

FTFY

As a rule you don't get content on those sites unless it is directly relevant to new releases.

Criticise it all you like, I agree I'd have probably done it differently, but it doesn't make it less real and it doesn't make this line of criticism largely pointless.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

Yeah, no. Single character models like that Belial are nice to have from other sources, no one (Recasters excluded) offers a full range of "that" Space Marine look (while Anvil has nice bits, the whole models just don't do it for me).

They still exist and as the only SGs with Marine infantry was in 6mm (which the Trouble Maker games stuff is a good match for) its also pretty irrelevant.

 the_Armyman wrote:


They have multiple websites and two printed publications. You really can't think of a better way they could have announced this? Really?

I'm genuinely perplexed as to why this wasn't announced alongside a physical product. It totally contradicts GW's recent practices.

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!

All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

Meh - having got into some new games with far better rulesets, I'm not particularly excited about this. It's about a year too late for me.

I'd be interested to see if Dropfleet Commander has better rules than Battlefleet Gothic, given that both involved the same author.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Massive news, and a clear tacit admission that their strategy of the past 10 years was a bad one.

If I'm not mistaken, GW's financial report will be out again soon. Do you think that this 'news' being released at this time is a coincidence?

 infinite_array wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Still disgusted at the hypocrisy from some people regarding this announcement, especially when certain dakka members swore blood oaths never to buy GW stuff ever again.

If people want to buy GW stuff and enjoy their stuff, that is their God given right, but please do me a favour:

Months down the line, when GW screw somebody else over a la chapterhouse, or ditch one of these games (again) please don't whine about it on dakka.

You'll get zero sympathy from me.

Well, it's kind of like a hopeful dream for a bunch of people that got brushed off by GW.

I swore off GW models for years, and then picked up a bunch of Empire stuff second hand for a KoW army (second one will be fully Mantic, though).

And, playing devil's advocate here, what happens if they smash the ball out of the park on these? What if FW's team is enough old-school GW to keep the rules mostly intact, and offer the minis at an acceptable (not great, but acceptable) price?

I'm happy for the wargaming newcomers (of which there are many) who will only buy something with a GW logo on the box. If Bloodbowl or Epic are re-released, then those people might finally get to play a decent wargame.

I also think that it's great news that GW are doing this, finally making their name more than an ironic reminder of what the company once was.

However, like Do_I_Not_Like_That, for me the ship has already sailed. A combination of having played them in the past and therefore having moved on, but also because of the things GW has done as a company that mean I wouldn't be comfortable buying their products. Sure, they are angels when compared to the likes of Nike, Nestle etc. in the wider business world. But when compared to the rest of the industry their behaviour has been fething atrocious, and has been for some years.

I would much rather that we see the industry continue to grow and GW shink a little. Less of a monopoly means that the company would have to look after the fans a little (which is perhaps why we might see this SG line coming about again actually).

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Massive news, and a clear tacit admission that their strategy of the past 10 years was a bad one.

Is it though? If taken completely at face value, it's just saying that they're (basically) giving Forge World more room to produce smaller side games. That's a good idea, to be sure, but hardly an admission of anything. At worst, this whole story is based on a misunderstanding by a store manager, and it's been shown time and time again that GW store managers know less than we do when it comes to news regarding their own company.

 infinite_array wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Its a good call, apart from AOS , their approach seems to be working on the whole, who needs market research eh ?

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

We don't know exactly how or even if Specialist Games will return.

As for the "plan," you can't really believe that GW wanted to kill the specialist games in the first place only to bring them back, right?

They were willing to get rid of a 30 year old franchise because it wasn't selling well enough. They did the same to Warhammer Historicals.

The growth of 40k's model size is a sign that they wanted Epic elements in their cash cow.

I am actually pretty devoid of credence, its more of a distant hope.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!
All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

That's not quite how it works, and the buffoon is no longer in day to day charge, which is probably largely why this is happening. FW have been pretty consistent in adhering to the values that old guard GW customers prize, there absolutely no foundation in believing that will change.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

No, no it hasn't.

Once I'd seen the quality of Finecast for myself, I didn't buy any more. I supported Nick financially, and I haven't touched AOS.

I haven't forgotten any of it, but this isn't that. You reward positive behaviour, you punish bad. If you continue to punish any entity when it tries to correct mistakes, then that's just holding a grudge.

Trust me, if they feth this up then I'll be quite happy to stick the knife in, but for now I'm happy to take the information at face value and be cautiously optimistic.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

With any luck the intervening time will allow you to grow as a person and appreciate this for a petty and futile thing to be doing.

Honestly I'm wondering if this is one of the first steps by the new CEO. Most of the stuff coming out now or since he took over was already in the pipeline but this could be his first real step in making changes. Maybe he also had something to do with the price drop on the HH box since I'm not the only one who wouldn't have bought two at the original price point but will at the new one.

Who knows. I'm tentatively optimistic. While I do play other games I have a deep and abiding love for the 40k universe (and 30k now too). So more games in this vein are good. I also wouldn't mind seeing Warmaster come back but that's one that I never got a chance to play. I just think Warmaster might encompass the "massive" battles of AoS much better than the game itself. Plus Fantasy battle at 10mm would be great and with GW's name on it would be more likely to catch on.

We'll see.

If they re-release Epic/Space Marine.....

I'm sunk, sooooo sunk.

Might have to sell a kidney.

While I'm sure people who have played them in the past will be seen as a 'bonus' if they are attacted to any of these reboots

I suspect the new 'specialist team' at foregworld is still going to be more interested in new players (perhaps moving on from GW rather than totally new, but not the hoary old guard who have been playing or collecting since the games originally came out)

but it will still be good to see this happening (even back in the 'glory days' most people took part for a few years and then moved on to booze, girls and higher education or jobs)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Massive news, and a clear tacit admission that their strategy of the past 10 years was a bad one.

If I'm not mistaken, GW's financial report will be out again soon. Do you think that this 'news' being released at this time is a coincidence?

Nah, not for months, the final quarter of the interim statement hasn't even closed yet. I mean, of course, things could be so terrible that this could have been cobbled together in short order so in January when the interim statement comes out they can go "look, this will make it all better!" but in all likelihood you're just looking too hard for a conspiracy.

 Pacific wrote:

However, like Do_I_Not_Like_That, for me the ship has already sailed. A combination of having played them in the past and therefore having moved on, but also because of the things GW has done as a company that mean I wouldn't be comfortable buying their products. Sure, they are angels when compared to the likes of Nike, Nestle etc. in the wider business world. But when compared to the rest of the industry their behaviour has been fething atrocious, and has been for some years.

I would much rather that we see the industry continue to grow and GW shink a little. Less of a monopoly means that the company would have to look after the fans a little (which is perhaps why we might see this SG line coming about again actually).

Oh, I agree. Like I said, I picked up some $300 of Empire from stores/second hand retailers to make a KoW army, but that's a full 2000 list and I'm not planning on changing it anytime soon.

There was a time when I would have bought into Epic: Armageddon or BFG, and I've got teams for Orcs and Humans in Blood Bowl. But the only reason to get back into specialist games is if you want a 40k/Fantasy experience. Other companies do the rules better, do the miniatures better, and do customer interaction better.

But I'll hold off judgement, because for all we know FW might hit this out of the park. But, again, what made the Specialist Games range so endearing is their rules, developed by people who are no longer with the company. How do we know that this isn't the same kind of effort to "reboot" old franchises that got us AoS out of WHFB?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!

All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

I think it's less of a collective forgiveness and more of optimism that this is the first step in the right direction. I like the idea of this, though I have no plans to buy the new games as soon as they come out until I see what it's all about. But, I love the 40k universe, I'd like to have a Necron fleet, and the idea of small scale skirmish games that take place in that same universe is appealing to me.

There have been rumblings of big GW changes coming for this past year or so. If it turns out to be true and this is the first step towards a less crappy company, I'll gladly embrace it. Otherwise, well, then it's no change and I'll just buy what I like when I have the dosh.

If they are just re-releasing the old rules repackaged.. I actually still have all of that. If they are just re-releasing old models... yeah.. I have a ton of Mordheim, Spacehulk, Necromunda, Epic, BFG, even Gorkamorka still (heck, I have everything for Gorkamorka but a few of the splat books).

The thing with most of the specialist games is, they can be repackaged with updated models, some modernization of the activation and campaign systems, and packaged more as self-contained games that don't require a lot of periphery products that are more expensive for GW to maintain. That would fall in line with the current model.
For example: Release Necromunda - Boxed game. Some terrain, 2 base gangs with a few options and hopefully pegged arms for ease of equipment change. X-pac 1 battle for the archeotech - More terrain, counters, 2 more gangs. X-pac 2 - The arenas, 1 gang and a bunch of free agents.. more terrain, etc.
They can keep costs down like this and release sets like that stormclaw or whatever set with the Orks vs Space Wolves. No hard to find blisters of singles, no trickled out characters, just releases. If they want, follow it up with individual gangs but at that point it's just gravy.

It's great that they want to revitalize these games especially if they can generate the same enthusiasm from their studio that FW has for HH. If they can't GW might kill it again.

The question is whether they will run more like the main GW studio or the FW studio.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!
All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

That's not quite how it works, and the buffoon is no longer in day to day charge, which is probably largely why this is happening. FW have been pretty consistent in adhering to the values that old guard GW customers prize, there absolutely no foundation in believing that will change.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

No, no it hasn't.

Once I'd seen the quality of Finecast for myself, I didn't buy any more. I supported Nick financially, and I haven't touched AOS.

I haven't forgotten any of it, but this isn't that. You reward positive behaviour, you punish bad. If you continue to punish any entity when it tries to correct mistakes, then that's just holding a grudge.

Trust me, if they feth this up then I'll be quite happy to stick the knife in, but for now I'm happy to take the information at face value and be cautiously optimistic.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

With any luck the intervening time will allow you to grow as a person and appreciate this for a petty and futile thing to be doing.

Wade through 400+ pages of the chapterhouse thread and then come back to me and tell me about being petty and futile.

I updated the OP with the details from Hastings. Let me know if I missed anything!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!
All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

That's not quite how it works, and the buffoon is no longer in day to day charge, which is probably largely why this is happening. FW have been pretty consistent in adhering to the values that old guard GW customers prize, there absolutely no foundation in believing that will change.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

No, no it hasn't.

Once I'd seen the quality of Finecast for myself, I didn't buy any more. I supported Nick financially, and I haven't touched AOS.

I haven't forgotten any of it, but this isn't that. You reward positive behaviour, you punish bad. If you continue to punish any entity when it tries to correct mistakes, then that's just holding a grudge.

Trust me, if they feth this up then I'll be quite happy to stick the knife in, but for now I'm happy to take the information at face value and be cautiously optimistic.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

With any luck the intervening time will allow you to grow as a person and appreciate this for a petty and futile thing to be doing.

Wade through 400+ pages of the chapterhouse thread and then come back to me and tell me about being petty and futile.

The thread I posted in regularly you mean?

There's no need, but, once again, people, in the main, don't seem to object to that sort of behaviour as much, it's a crap product for too much money that bothers them.

Besides, GW being a douche has no bearing on you laughing at fellow hobbyists because their optimism was ill founded.

As far as I'm concerned, this is as clear as an admission of failure that you're ever likely to see.

GW are basically saying: remember those great games we used to make. We're bringing them out again. Some people think this is GW listening to their customers. It is no such thing - it is flogging a dead horse on a galactic scale. With this and HH (which is basically getting people to but space marines twice) GW have hit the smash in case of emergency button.

They've ran out of ideas.

The great GW game designers of yesteryear are gone. The fun and wackiness that was WD and citadel journal, has been purged.

GW is run by a man who thought that pokemon was a passing fad. Years later, it still sells more than GW.

I suspect the pokemon owners are snorting cocaine off the backs of prostitutes and setting fire to 100 dollar bills!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Massive news, and a clear tacit admission that their strategy of the past 10 years was a bad one.

If I'm not mistaken, GW's financial report will be out again soon. Do you think that this 'news' being released at this time is a coincidence?

I don't think it's a coincidence at all. We haven't seen anything but anecdotal evidence that AoS isn't doing well...but from what I am noticing, I have a pretty solid hunch that it has been an utter and complete failure. What few people they had left playing WHFB were thrown under the bus, and I am willing to bet even fewer people are currently collecting and playing AoS. Our local group was in the middle of a Mighty Empires map campaign with 10 plus players....and when AoS hit, people were so underwhelmed the campaign peetered out. I haven't seen a game of Warhammer played since...AoS or otherwise. A few people have been playing around with Kings of War though.

I predicted this, as it felt way too much like the crap that Rackham pulled when they killed their Confrontation game (and gorgeous metal minis line) to bring out Age of Ragnarok (wow, even the name is eerily similar).

They are likely scrambling to come up with something to drastically increase sales...or at least throw something out there as 'the plan' to increase sales revenue...and maybe they think this is it. I just don't see how they are going to put a positive spin on the AoS numbers to appease the shareholders. And I still don't see how they can mobilize all of these specialist games in any meaningful way that would adequately support any single one of them without draining resources (cash and manpower) significantly from the rest of their organization.

Heck, if they want to start selling minis for Epic, BFG, Necromunda, etc, I'll be the first in line to buy them...I'm just not seeing how this is going to work out the way many posters in here think (or hope) it will.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, this is as clear as an admission of failure that you're ever likely to see.

GW are basically saying: remember those great games we used to make. We're bringing them out again. Some people think this is GW listening to their customers. It is no such thing - it is flogging a dead horse on a galactic scale. With this and HH (which is basically getting people to but space marines twice) GW have hit the smash in case of emergency button.

They've ran out of ideas.

The great GW game designers of yesteryear are gone. The fun and wackiness that was WD and citadel journal, has been purged.

GW is run by a man who thought that pokemon was a passing fad. Years later, it still sells more than GW.

I suspect the pokemon owners are snorting cocaine off the backs of prostitutes and setting fire to 100 dollar bills!

So what's inherently wrong with admitting you've made a mistake and trying to put it right?

Hubris has been the hallmark of modern GW, and even a tiny hint that they're over that and prepared to move forward is cause for optimism.

Re: Pokemon / etc, let's not get too far afield here - please stick to discussing the new GW Specialist Studio news. Thanks!

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

I can't understand the relentless doom mongering given the news that it's under the auspices of FW and NOT GW proper, but there you go.

Because at the end of the day, FW take their orders from a man who has demonstrably proven to be a complete and utter buffoon!
All of FW's good work can be instantly undone at a stroke if you know who makes a decision.

That's not quite how it works, and the buffoon is no longer in day to day charge, which is probably largely why this is happening. FW have been pretty consistent in adhering to the values that old guard GW customers prize, there absolutely no foundation in believing that will change.

Not having a go at you personally but it's almost as if the finecast debacle, the chapterhouse shambles, the cluster feth that was the AOS pre-release, and the huge you to gamers and retaliers never happened.

GW wave epic 40k under people's noses and all is forgiven

Collective amnesia has befallen Dakka.

No, no it hasn't.

Once I'd seen the quality of Finecast for myself, I didn't buy any more. I supported Nick financially, and I haven't touched AOS.

I haven't forgotten any of it, but this isn't that. You reward positive behaviour, you punish bad. If you continue to punish any entity when it tries to correct mistakes, then that's just holding a grudge.

Trust me, if they feth this up then I'll be quite happy to stick the knife in, but for now I'm happy to take the information at face value and be cautiously optimistic.

Two years down the line, when the inevitable happens, and GW are charging $100 for each BFG ship, and people are moaning about it, I'll be here to do a big massive, Nelson from the Simpson HA HA

I look forward to that day

With any luck the intervening time will allow you to grow as a person and appreciate this for a petty and futile thing to be doing.

Wade through 400+ pages of the chapterhouse thread and then come back to me and tell me about being petty and futile.

The thread I posted in regularly you mean?

There's no need, but, once again, people, in the main, don't seem to object to that sort of behaviour as much, it's a crap product for too much money that bothers them.

Besides, GW being a douche has no bearing on you laughing at fellow hobbyists because their optimism was ill founded.

If people are going to put their faith in a company run by people who don't know even the difference between a patent and copyright, then, well...

Alan Merritt, supposed 'head' of GW's intellectual property embarrassed himself during that trial. See above for my views on Kirby.

And you trust these people? God help us

From personal experience, Nick isn't a saint. Let's not pretend the CHS case was good vs evil, especially since I don't feel like getting a warning for being off-topic.

GW is a business. They make games. They aren't my friend. They aren't someone I pal around with, smoking cigars, watching the game, having a drink. If I like their games, I'll play them. I don't care about what they've done, I'm not trying to marry them.. I care about what they are doing and what they will do.

EDIT: Sorry RiTides - The time it took me to post this there were like 8 new posts..

Do_I_Not_Like_That, I think you posted at the same time as me so that's fine - but please no more discussion along those lines.

Edit: This thread is not about Chapterhouse, either - please stick to the topic at hand (GW's new Specialist Studio)

Thanks!

 RiTides wrote:
I updated the OP with the details from Hastings. Let me know if I missed anything!

If you wanna quote me

 judgedoug wrote:
I have confirmation from my source.

This Specialist Games thing is happening. It is not a secret within GW as of right now. An internal "Vox Caster" company wide email discusses various aspects of it.

This is 100% what my post yesterday http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/670113.page was about.

I stake all of my rumor accuracy on this.

based on my thread from yesterday and my source always panning out...

 MLaw wrote:
I care about what they are doing and what they will do.

Which is alright, I guess. If you want to ignore the fact that they abandoned these games when they thought they could get away with it, and are only now coming back in times of apparent dire straights.

As for what they are doing, well, it's nothing apart from, again, a badly photo-shopped image and hearsay.

As for what they will do, they (apparently, if the hearsay is to be believed) haven't even assembled the team that'll make this a reality. And we don't know what the format of any of these games will be.