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I think it is quite possible that they have a whole series of new boxed games with plastic miniatures waiting to roll out. As a retailer, I know that most decisions at GW are made two years in advance. They have probably had this planned for some time. That would explain the comment about profits in the near future.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Everyone here seems to be assuming we're getting plastics for all the Necromunda gangs.

A generic Ganger box would be a possibility though given the crossover potential with 40k. There is little or no chance that each gang will get a plastic box, it would just be too expensive.

A generic Ganger box would be useless. It would be better to at least make plastic boxes for the gangs that would sell - Delaque (second most popular gang, good for generic Imperial civilians), Escher (most popular gang) and Redemptionists (Imperial Cultists for 40K).

GW seem to have rid themselves of the idea that they exist for people to spend money on 40K.

Looking back at their long term history, we can as easily say that 40K cannibalised all the rest of their business, as that other games cannibalise sales off 40K.

Smellingsalts wrote:
I think it is quite possible that they have a whole series of new boxed games with plastic miniatures waiting to roll out. As a retailer, I know that most decisions at GW are made two years in advance. They have probably had this planned for some time. That would explain the comment about profits in the near future.

Yes and no.

Generally, GW has things planned about 2 years in advance. There are clearly several more main-range boxed games (i.e. with miniatures immediately usable in 40K or AoS, like the Calth or EF game) ready and/or planned.

The new specialist game studio is just now being created and recruiting people. To my knowledge, they haven't done any work yet. However, part of their remit supposedly is to turn out products with a shorter lead-time.

It can only be a good thing overall.
Way back, GW were the only company with the financial clout to produce 'niche'-style games, and whilst I don't claim to be a wargaming historian, back in the 90's if it wasn't GW, no-one was really interested.
Other companies have now taken on and refined the various types of games, and it's GW finally realising that "battle games" for many less appealing than aa "skirmish" game, for example.
AoS - I genuinely believe - has been designed with an eye on people who prefer Warmahordes style to WFB. Guildball and Dreadball have no competitor in GW's armoury.
FoW/DZC and X-Wing/Armada similarly.
GW have simply decided to reenter the market for niches they simply don't cater for, so can't compete for people's wallets.
I'm not suggesting that a rezzed Necromunda will be a viable alternative to Infinity though - extremely different styles of play - but if it means new minis, a wider choice of systems and renewed interest in the fan maintained stuff, I can't see how the new studio can be anything less than good for the hobby as a whole, whether GW white knightbor not.

I'm not sure how much Execution Force made them, but all they really had to do was create 4 new models, repack some old ones, and print some cardstock, so I imagine it made a few quid. Space hulk, and the BaC boxes, I have no doubt made them a fortune. They're maybe starting to realise that 40k proper is not the only decent revenue source.

I'm not a business genius, but I'm pretty sure that new editions, even if limited, of Space Crusade, Hero/warhammer Quest, Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, some form of epic, Aeronautica Imperialis, BFG, blood bowl etc. would all turn a profit, PROVIDED that they created each as a boxed, standalone game that was fully playable. Add forgeworld expansions for the stuff like epic and BFG, and I think the company would have a healthy cash boost.

Hell, if they released one of those every other month, I'd probably buy them all!

 Eggs wrote:
I'm not sure how much Execution Force made them, but all they really had to do was create 4 new models, repack some old ones, and print some cardstock, so I imagine it made a few quid. Space hulk, and the BaC boxes, I have no doubt made them a fortune. They're maybe starting to realise that 40k proper is not the only decent revenue source.

I'm not a business genius, but I'm pretty sure that new editions, even if limited, of Space Crusade, Hero/warhammer Quest, Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, some form of epic, Aeronautica Imperialis, BFG, blood bowl etc. would all turn a profit, PROVIDED that they created each as a boxed, standalone game that was fully playable. Add forgeworld expansions for the stuff like epic and BFG, and I think the company would have a healthy cash boost.

Hell, if they released one of those every other month, I'd probably buy them all!

All this!

The new CEO may actually have a clue. Probably looked at the long term sales decline and realised that their whole focus on the core at the expense of everything else isn't working and if they carry on as they are, they'll be going out of business. So, the new CEO looked around, saw Forgeworld actually growing and said to them: "You! You seem to know what you are doing. Here's some more freedom and budget. Now, go forth and make me more money and grow the brand!".

If I were Tony Cottrell (head of this new expanded Forgeworld/Specialist Games division) I'd be over the moon. He couldn't be any more vindicated for his leadership of Forgeworld over the years and their whole attitude to their customers (compared to the mainline GW Studio).

Smellingsalts wrote:
I think it is quite possible that they have a whole series of new boxed games with plastic miniatures waiting to roll out. As a retailer, I know that most decisions at GW are made two years in advance. They have probably had this planned for some time. That would explain the comment about profits in the near future.

Things have to be planned out in advance because the turn around time on new kits isn't fast. I'd be surprised if GW are sitting on a lot of unreleased plastic kits. Maybe they do, but I don't think any model making companies can put a bunch of kits in a short period. When you walk in to a hobby shop and see a shelf full of Airfix or Tamiya kits, it took them years to develop that product range. Given GW put out a few plastic kits a month I doubt they have a lot of free time to have built up an inventory.

To be fair though, if anyone can get a rapid turnaround on new product, I'd expect it to be GW.

Edit: and while I'm excited to see what is coming down the pipeline, I'm in no rush. I'm currently painting an azhag the slaughterer model I bought about 20 years ago.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Everyone here seems to be assuming we're getting plastics for all the Necromunda gangs.

A generic Ganger box would be a possibility though given the crossover potential with 40k. There is little or no chance that each gang will get a plastic box, it would just be too expensive.

A generic Ganger box would be useless. It would be better to at least make plastic boxes for the gangs that would sell - Delaque (second most popular gang, good for generic Imperial civilians), Escher (most popular gang) and Redemptionists (Imperial Cultists for 40K).

If this is being handled by FW, couldn't they just make a generic "Underhive Gangers" kit and release gang-specific torsos and heads like they already do with the HH marines?

MacMuckles wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Everyone here seems to be assuming we're getting plastics for all the Necromunda gangs.

A generic Ganger box would be a possibility though given the crossover potential with 40k. There is little or no chance that each gang will get a plastic box, it would just be too expensive.

A generic Ganger box would be useless. It would be better to at least make plastic boxes for the gangs that would sell - Delaque (second most popular gang, good for generic Imperial civilians), Escher (most popular gang) and Redemptionists (Imperial Cultists for 40K).

If this is being handled by FW, couldn't they just make a generic "Underhive Gangers" kit and release gang-specific torsos and heads like they already do with the HH marines?

That would be the best way to go, really.

MacMuckles wrote:
If this is being handled by FW, couldn't they just make a generic "Underhive Gangers" kit and release gang-specific torsos and heads like they already do with the HH marines?

Not without sacrificing the distinctive looks of each gang. You've got a muscle-bound gang, a gang wearing trenchcoats, an all-female gang and a gang wearing stillsuit-like bodygloves. I don't think there is anything you could share between those kits.

 AlexHolker wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
If this is being handled by FW, couldn't they just make a generic "Underhive Gangers" kit and release gang-specific torsos and heads like they already do with the HH marines?

Not without sacrificing the distinctive looks of each gang. You've got a muscle-bound gang, a gang wearing trenchcoats, an all-female gang and a gang wearing stillsuit-like bodygloves. I don't think there is anything you could share between those kits.

This assuming they are planning on keeping the aesthetics of the previous game's gangs - and we all know GW can simply FW to make a new set of more plain-looking gangs.

Well, looking at Necromunda, they could do a box with two Gangs in - Orlocks and Escher at a guess. Add enough bits to swap and change weapons and equipment. If it does well enough, tool the rest of the gangs in plastic and add specialists in resin (Bounty Hunters, Skum, Ratskins, Beasts from the Deep, Genestealer Hybrids, whatever). Job done...

I don't think anyone would really pitch a fit if they made the gangs a bit more generic, and suggested kits to kit bash with and/or made specific gang conversion sets.

And would you really give someone a hard time in a store run necromunda campaign if he was running Van Saars with whatever the generic box may be? That's even assuming all the gangs survive into Necromunda 2016/17 edition.

 zedmeister wrote:
If I were Tony Cottrell (head of this new expanded Forgeworld/Specialist Games division) I'd be over the moon. He couldn't be any more vindicated for his leadership of Forgeworld over the years and their whole attitude to their customers (compared to the mainline GW Studio).

This, absolutely this. Through all the ups and downs and pains of the last few years, FW has remained, for the most part, "by gamers, for gamers" and it works. That was where GW originally came from and it's my impression that that is where a lot of the more recent competition has come from (often from players and/or designers who have abandoned GW because of the direction they've gone).

By definition, any hobby is a frivolous luxury; people don't need it, they have to want it. In this area that means you've got to make stuff that is fun and cool, which is very hard to do by corporate committee. I get the feeling that GW (possibly because of this new CEO) have finally realised that.

People are getting really hyped for SGs, but let's remember that the most obvious target for early releases from the new studio is actually LotR, even if only because there might still be some contractual obligation from GW to release products in order to maintain the licence.

I'd love to get some good Uruk-hai in resin.

 Eggs wrote:
They're maybe starting to realise that 40k proper is not the only decent revenue source.

I'm not a business genius, but I'm pretty sure that new editions, even if limited, of Space Crusade, Hero/warhammer Quest, Mordheim, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, some form of epic, Aeronautica Imperialis, BFG, blood bowl etc. would all turn a profit, PROVIDED that they created each as a boxed, standalone game that was fully playable. Add forgeworld expansions for the stuff like epic and BFG, and I think the company would have a healthy cash boost.

I think the Dreadfleet trauma is still there.

The way I understood it, a new Warhammer Quest or new GorkaMorka, should they do these (only using the example here), would not be specialist games these days, but main range boxed games (going to stores, retailers, etc..), almost certainly in plastic and likely with a later-date re-release of just the miniatures sans game. These are the games with miniatures that do fit into the main games.

On the other side would be Blood Bowl, Battlefleet Gothic, etc.. The games named in the announcement. These would be candidates for the new specialist game studio and mostly be released direct only and in resin, probably under the Forge World brand. Mainly because these miniatures cannot be moved over to one of the main games or get a re-release without a game to go with them.

Sad Panda wrote:


I think the Dreadfleet trauma is still there.

Dreadfleet trauma

It must have had quite the effect on GW workings. It'd be fascinating to see some of the discussions going on when it wasn't selling as well as they hoped...

I think it would be good if most games are just done with new free rules like AoS, and just produce new models for them. Rather than doing big boxed sets that are expensive to produce.. someone mentioned that they said Necromunda was a great game that didn't sell.. maybe having it as a big box set was part of the reason. So for most of the games I think if they try to keep the production costs down and focus on making really awesome minis the games will be a lot more successful than last time.

Unless it's a game that needs a big box like Warhammer Quest

 His Master's Voice wrote:
People are getting really hyped for SGs, but let's remember that the most obvious target for early releases from the new studio is actually LotR, even if only because there might still be some contractual obligation from GW to release products in order to maintain the licence.

I'd love to get some good Uruk-hai in resin.

While that's certainly a factor, I'd argue Epic and/or BFG are the most likely early candidates, given the evident fondness for those systems over at FW(who will be providing the "core" of this new division it seems) and their obvious potential as Heresy tie-ins. They also, in that context, seem to better fit the business model people are supposing they'll go with; both are suited to a self-contained plastic "big box" release in the vein of BAC(Adeptus Titanicus box with one "heavy" force with Warlords & Reavers, and one "light" force of mostly Warhounds equipped for engine killing, works equally well as a 1v1 boxed game or as an expanded Titan Legion army for one person - same with BFG, one "ships of the line" fleet and one more balanced fleet), which can then be supplemented with further plastic supplement boxes if they do well("proper" Epic box with Marine v Marine) and/or test-runs of resin add-ons(Xenos races, more specialised warships etc).

I'd say the level of support LotR/Hobbit gets depends whether they're spinning responsibility off to this new division because someone there thinks they know how to revitalise the range/is really passionate about it, or because they're contractually obliged to keep putting out a certain number of releases and they want to hold the license to prevent any competitors from getting their hands on it. If it's the former we'll definitely see some solid releases, maybe even a new boxed set, but if it's the latter I expect we'll see an occasional "maintenance" figure/unit in resin and not much else.

migooo wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

migooo wrote:
Wasn't Tony Cottrell with Forge world?

Yep. So, not necessarily time for a "the business managers are going to run it and ruin everything" panic yet.

However when warhammer forge was set up I thought that it would get the same support as FW . Maybe there were internal problems but unless he has a bit of freedom in this I really only see token stuff if it is FW doing this.

Yah, the internal problem was age of sigmar.

Warhammer forge bassicly started to fall off around the time work on age of sigmar would of started.

The end times plot is bassicly the original throne of chaos plot forge world planned.

You know, I completely forgot that they planned on going that crazy route with the "Throne of Chaos".

 AlexHolker wrote:

A generic Ganger box would be useless.

Far from it, it would have a lot of utility. A single box could easily cover 2-3 gangs (Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar) and more distinctive gangs could easily be covered by resin bolt ons. This kit could also see wide use in 40k, from Cultists to Inquisitorial henchmen.

This would actually a good move for GW precisely because of its 40k utility.

There's a heavy FW involvement, so I reckon we'll see plastics for a boxed set (assuming they go this way.) Then resin models for the other factions and possibly weapons packs a la Heresy or possibly one sprue to rule them all with a variety of equipment and weapons.

Resin is the lowest (that isn't metal) cost production process so it makes sense for anything which is going to sell in relatively low numbers (to say, a core choice for a 40K army.)

IMO the way to go would be to make a boxed starter set with two gangs that can be played as a self contained game, and make old models for other gangs available (just to have the full game available).

If the game is popular enough, release an expansion (or alternate starter) with two more gangs in plastic.

Build that Specialist Games with a board game mentality rather than a wargaming mentality.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

A generic Ganger box would be useless.

Far from it, it would have a lot of utility. A single box could easily cover 2-3 gangs (Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar) and more distinctive gangs could easily be covered by resin bolt ons. This kit could also see wide use in 40k, from Cultists to Inquisitorial henchmen.

This would actually a good move for GW precisely because of its 40k utility.

Those 3 gangs have very different styles and aesthetics in terms of clothing/weapons/beards. There isn't much crossover between the underhive gangs.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

A generic Ganger box would be useless.

Far from it, it would have a lot of utility. A single box could easily cover 2-3 gangs (Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar) and more distinctive gangs could easily be covered by resin bolt ons. This kit could also see wide use in 40k, from Cultists to Inquisitorial henchmen.

This would actually a good move for GW precisely because of its 40k utility.

There's actually not a lot of overlap between Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar. Orlock and Goliath (assuming goliath is the better scaled version) are the only two with any real overlap IMO.

 Necros wrote:
I think it would be good if most games are just done with new free rules like AoS, and just produce new models for them. Rather than doing big boxed sets that are expensive to produce.. someone mentioned that they said Necromunda was a great game that didn't sell.. maybe having it as a big box set was part of the reason. So for most of the games I think if they try to keep the production costs down and focus on making really awesome minis the games will be a lot more successful than last time.

Unless it's a game that needs a big box like Warhammer Quest

This, to an extent.
One of the things in the announcement that stood out to me was the separation of boxed games and standalone boxes.

There's a number of ways they could approach this for each game, but the 'right' option depends on the actual game itself.

Take Bloodbowl, for example. That needs the pitch, range rulers, templates etc. To modify that so that it doesn't need those items would be doing a huge disservice.
So the sensible model there would be a boxed game release, then on-going miniature support.

Stuff like Spacehulk can continue to be standalone boxes/expansions, because you can play a pretty long term model with just the box contents.

BFG, Epic and Necromunda - they need a model of their own.
Take Betrayal at Calth. Having played it, I really like it as a game, but from the forums here a lot of people are treating the game and non-mini box contents as an added bonus - they are dropping £95 to get their hands on a raft of cheap minis. This is an approach that GW could capitalise on and is similar to what they've done with AoS and other companies (like Mantic) do.
Using Epic as an idea; big box drops. Contains glossy rulebook, whippy sticks, new plastic buildings and new Ork & Marine forces, with one or two 'unique' miniatures.
Release rules as freebies,and box contents as separates - but priced so that whilst still a significant investment, the big box works out cheaper than buying plastic components separately by some way.
There's then no requirement to buy the box, but if you have the money to drop on it you're saving money overall with ebay for the surplus as an option.
As long as the selection in the box isn't too wide ranging, there's a practical limit to how many boxes it's worth someone buying, and will drive purchasing of the rest of the range for people to fill out their forces.
Entry to the system is easier, big box sales will be driven naturally.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Things have to be planned out in advance because the turn around time on new kits isn't fast. I'd be surprised if GW are sitting on a lot of unreleased plastic kits. Maybe they do, but I don't think any model making companies can put a bunch of kits in a short period. When you walk in to a hobby shop and see a shelf full of Airfix or Tamiya kits, it took them years to develop that product range. Given GW put out a few plastic kits a month I doubt they have a lot of free time to have built up an inventory.

Fun fact: the Ghostkeel's sprue has a 2014 timestamp on it. It existed in its final product form for almost a year before its mass market release. Which honestly seems right to me assuming a development cycle of inception to design to prototyping to mass production to release totalling in the rough ballpark of 2 to 3 years.