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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Plus, GW just provided brand new generic CSMs, CSM Termies & CSM Dreads - you just have to buy them all at once... Plus Cultists!

I hope this is a joke. Because otherwise it holds the same weight as saying someone can buy the SM tactical squad box (the one that gets revamped in virtually every edition) and add some spikes and green-stuffed mutations here and there.

As for the dinobots, pretty decent models, but rules-wise they seem to have been designed for 5th edition (as they probably were), and as such lagging two entire editions behind.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 vostroyan second born wrote:
never the less deserve various codices an update more than the space wolfes.

Here's the part you're failing to understand.

Space Wolves? They can be given an update with a rather small amount of work. Port the Champions of Fenris stuff into the main Codex, come up with a "Space Wolf Great Company" detachment and boom--you've basically got the book done.

Chaos Marines, Tyranids, and Guard? They're going to require more work. They require some pretty hefty points changes on things, along with some rules shifts.

Ahahahah, no. Actually, what Vostroyan Second Born, and you, fail to understand, is that Games Workshop do not care for fairness, never have, never will.

 vostroyan second born wrote:
GW tries to generate money with little to none work by "redoing" a Codex which does not need an update. But they ignore the fact that by neglecting so many other factions they anger their customers with the result they will loose interest. And nobody buys and paints the models cause they are so beautiful. They buy, cause they wanna play but without proper rule set there is no game to play.

Stop complaining. Act. There are dozens of awesome other games you might start.

 Eldarain wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Maybe the real answer for CSM really is spiky Marines?

I'm at the point where if it's between what we've been getting and getting rolled into C:SM done well, I might opt for the latter. If we got Legion Tactics which also unlock the most iconic units (Daemon Prince, Daemon Engines etc) and BB level allies with Daemons if you take those tactics it would probably be a big improvement.

But then they wouldn't be objectively worse than SM, which is kind of the point. Gotta make sure little Timmy's space marines have some badguys to beat.

 Korinov wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Plus, GW just provided brand new generic CSMs, CSM Termies & CSM Dreads - you just have to buy them all at once... Plus Cultists!

I hope this is a joke. Because otherwise it holds the same weight as saying someone can buy the SM tactical squad box (the one that gets revamped in virtually every edition) and add some spikes and green-stuffed mutations here and there.

WTF? BaC is 30k stuff - the same stuff worn and used by the same CSM in 40k after 10k years of the Long War. It is not even close to being the same, because SM Tacticals are loyalist from the 40k era, wearing mk.7 & mk.8 armor, not mk4 & mk5 Heresy era gear.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Plus, GW just provided brand new generic CSMs, CSM Termies & CSM Dreads - you just have to buy them all at once... Plus Cultists!

I hope this is a joke. Because otherwise it holds the same weight as saying someone can buy the SM tactical squad box (the one that gets revamped in virtually every edition) and add some spikes and green-stuffed mutations here and there.

WTF? BaC is 30k stuff - the same stuff worn and used by the same CSM in 40k after 10k years of the Long War. It is not even close to being the same, because SM Tacticals are loyalist from the 40k era, wearing mk.7 & mk.8 armor, not mk4 & mk5 Heresy era gear.

"Mark VII armour, also known as the “Aquila,” “Imperator” or “Eagle” armour, was developed during the Horus Heresy, and remains in use as the most common form of power armour ten thousand years later. It represents the final major development of Mark 6 armour."

- WH40 lexicanum

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Plus, GW just provided brand new generic CSMs, CSM Termies & CSM Dreads - you just have to buy them all at once... Plus Cultists!

I hope this is a joke. Because otherwise it holds the same weight as saying someone can buy the SM tactical squad box (the one that gets revamped in virtually every edition) and add some spikes and green-stuffed mutations here and there.

WTF? BaC is 30k stuff - the same stuff worn and used by the same CSM in 40k after 10k years of the Long War. It is not even close to being the same, because SM Tacticals are loyalist from the 40k era, wearing mk.7 & mk.8 armor, not mk4 & mk5 Heresy era gear.

It's the same if you consider that one would want/need to chaos-ify both to get the 40k chaos aesthetic (spikes, mutations, all that). Neither BaC nor a Tactical squad are directly comparable to actual CSM units as sold, one is the correct type of armour (30k) but lacks 40k chaos identifying elements and the other is 40k armour (normally not used by old school chaos boys who survived 10k years) and also lack 40k chaos identifying elements. In both cases you have some work to do to fit them into a regular 40k Chaos army.

mk.7 was developed during the heresy, but not fielded in any significant amount.

It's like noting that the F-35 and the Reagan carrier were developed today, which is completely different from having functional air wings or carrier groups in the air or on blue water.

mk.4, mk.5 and mk.6 are the armors of CSM.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
mk.7 was developed during the heresy, but not fielded in any significant amount.

(...)

mk.4, mk.5 and mk.6 are the armors of CSM.

Because all CSM were alive during the Heresy?

It's been 10000 years. People die, and some other people rebel against the Imperium and end up falling to Chaos. The Dark Mechanicum is also supposed to be doing something other than looking evil inside their spiky robes.

Anyway the models in Betrayal at Calith are not 40k Chaos Space Marines. They're 30k Chaos Space Marines, and they clearly do not fit the aesthetics CSM have adhered to since their first appearance in Rogue Trader. You may convert them to represent Chaos Space Marines, same as you can convert anything into something else. The newest kits released for CSM are still the Raptors, Dinobots & Hellturkey from 6th edition, as well as the Dark Vengeance models.

Disclaimer: I'd have no issues at playing against someone using the BaC models to represent CSM, but that doesn't make them "proper" CSM models as far as the GW model line concerns me.

What are the chances they'll redo Catachans?

Slightly higher than Plastic Sisters and slightly lower than a new basic CSM troop kit.

So next to impossible.

So you're saying there's a chance...

However slim

GW hates us all.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
mk.7 was developed during the heresy, but not fielded in any significant amount.

It's like noting that the F-35 and the Reagan carrier were developed today, which is completely different from having functional air wings or carrier groups in the air or on blue water.

mk.4, mk.5 and mk.6 are the armors of CSM.

No, it was developed and fielded en masse at the end of Horus Heresy, however, the loyalists were the one who developed and fielded it, so the traitors never got around to use it. Still, that's the 10.000 year old traitors, far from every traitor marine are even close to being that old and there are plenty of newer traitor marine, like the Crimson Slaugther.

 Zewrath wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
mk.7 was developed during the heresy, but not fielded in any significant amount.

It's like noting that the F-35 and the Reagan carrier were developed today, which is completely different from having functional air wings or carrier groups in the air or on blue water.

mk.4, mk.5 and mk.6 are the armors of CSM.

No, it was developed and fielded en masse at the end of Horus Heresy, however, the loyalists were the one who developed and fielded it, so the traitors never got around to use it. Still, that's the 10.000 year old traitors, far from every traitor marine are even close to being that old and there are plenty of newer traitor marine, like the Crimson Slaugther.

Plus it's entirely possible for the CSM to have taken armor off of the Loyalists, they take lots of stuff from them, why not armor too?

Korinov wrote:
Because all CSM were alive during the Heresy?

It's been 10000 years. People die, and some other people rebel against the Imperium and end up falling to Chaos. The Dark Mechanicum is also supposed to be doing something other than looking evil inside their spiky robes.

Anyway the models in Betrayal at Calith are not 40k Chaos Space Marines. They're 30k Chaos Space Marines, and they clearly do not fit the aesthetics CSM have adhered to since their first appearance in Rogue Trader. You may convert them to represent Chaos Space Marines, same as you can convert anything into something else. The newest kits released for CSM are still the Raptors, Dinobots & Hellturkey from 6th edition, as well as the Dark Vengeance models.

Disclaimer: I'd have no issues at playing against someone using the BaC models to represent CSM, but that doesn't make them "proper" CSM models as far as the GW model line concerns me.

Within the Eye of Terror there is a planet where Khorne resurrects Orks over and over again because he like watching them fight. If he can do that with mere play things you'd think he could do more for his worshipers. That said within the warp and the Eye of Terror where Chaos Marines reside time does not flow the same way it does in our reality. Some parts of the warp only days may have passed since the Heresy despite it having been 10,000 years for the Imperium.

You're right, not all CSM were alive during the Heresy and not all Renegade chapters affiliate with Legions, Chaos Gods, or the Dark Mechanicum. As far as BaC models go its just as good at representing loyalist or legionaries because of the diversity on both sides, so it doesn't really matter. There are some Renegade Chapters that would probably better represented by using the Loyalist Codex and loyalist marine models so I don't people would complain there either.

I don't believe BaC alters what GW will do for CSM. BaC is regarded as the first major release for the new GW:SS division. So unless they're blurring the lines so soon after drawing them I think BaC is to be regarded as separate and distinct from GW's main studio's efforts.

I think in the long run, there will be some blurring of lines. I think GW will eventually promote cross play between 30k and 40k and will find some way to make that work. Where they will say if you want to play Chaos Legionaries use those 30k rules with these tweaks. Meanwhile I think GW proper will continue to push CSM as this very disorganized rag-tag army that doesn't really follow their own fluff.

According to the Fluff, the CSM in 40k are the same CSM from 30k because time is different in the Warp.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
According to the Fluff, the CSM in 40k are the same CSM from 30k because time is different in the Warp.

Many of them are still the remnants of the Traitor Legions. The sad books we've been getting of late are more dedicated to recent renegades who immediately destroy or abandon all their superior tech because reasons.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
According to the Fluff, the CSM in 40k are the same CSM from 30k because time is different in the Warp.

But not all of them are. When asked a couple years back one of GW's game developers said their opinion its only about half of the CSM are the remnants of the Legions.

You take that and you consider that among those former legionaries most are fractured and don't retain any affiliation or organizational remnants of their past Legion and it becomes clear that is a relatively narrow portion of CSM that people want represented by Legion rules.

Given that GW has spent roughly a decade moving away from Legions in 40k (for 30k only), that's not surprising. However, way back when I started 40k...

Just to clear things up for someone without the new campaign book, the new Heirlooms of Conquest have also been included in the book?

Wait, you mean that we are not getting a new codex this year but space wolves are?!

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, you mean that we are not getting a new codex this year but space wolves are?!

Yup. Don't be surprised if Orks, Tyranids, and Blood Angels get a redo before AM as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, you mean that we are not getting a new codex this year but space wolves are?!

Yup. Don't be surprised if Orks, Tyranids, and Blood Angels get a redo before AM as well.

I dont even.... Whats the matter, TWC not strong enough?!

 master of ordinance wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, you mean that we are not getting a new codex this year but space wolves are?!

Yup. Don't be surprised if Orks, Tyranids, and Blood Angels get a redo before AM as well.

I dont even.... Whats the matter, TWC not strong enough?!

They need a formation to make them better than those OP Eldar obviously!

Jeez, was the Orks Codex bad enough to warrant getting another 7th ed. book? That's much less believable for me than Guard. It's like 6 months younger than our already relatively recent codex. Not that I'd blame an Ork player for enjoying the attention

I suspect Nids first-- however, this comes from a heftier number of unsubstantiated claims online, including but not limited to Bell of Lost Cause, but the majority of what I've read claimed bugs first, guard following. Poor Chaos.

EDIT: By the way, what's this thread doing in not rumors and news? Thread contained many rumors and was even entitled as such. I know a number had little substance to them, but others did have quite a bit to them, till we discovered the Montz'Kha book. Just sayin'.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, you mean that we are not getting a new codex this year but space wolves are?!

Yup. Don't be surprised if Orks, Tyranids, and Blood Angels get a redo before AM as well.

I dont even.... Whats the matter, TWC not strong enough?!

They are probably going to make a fluffy formation of two, release a few new plastics, and sell a new codex at $10 more than the last one. Probably at least one formation composed completely of TWC.

Well, there goes me facing Space Wolves for a long time