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Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

While interesting, this is getting a bit off the topic of Saudi Arabia.

Why not start a new thread to discuss New Labour's systematic suppression of Christianity?

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Oh dear, here's some more horrible gak from the ISIS that made it.

http://www.esohr.org/en/?p=673



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

I get a 403 forbidden.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace


ESOHR are deeply concerned following reports from several Saudi media sources that a mass execution of 52 people will take place in the coming days.

Several indicators suggest that Ali Al-Nimr and two other minorsDawud Al-Marhon, Abdullah Al-Zaher, the prominent human rights activists Sheikh Nimr Al-Nimr and three other young men Ali Al-Rebh, Mohammed Al-Shyoukh and Mohammed Al-Suwaimilwill be amongst those set to be executed en masse, following the recent endorsement of their death sentences. These seven were all arrested in connection with participating in demonstrations, and later sentenced to death on trumped up anti-government charges after trials marred with due process concerns.

Our concerns arebased on several indicators from within recentnews reports on the mass execution.

Okaz news specifically reports a number of these individuals will come from Al-Awamiyah (Eastern province).
Al-Riyadh news details some of the charges of these 52 individuals, and some of these charges bear striking similarities with the charges levied against Sheikh Al-Nimr and the other six young activists.
All the activists have recently been given an unexplained medical examination. Medical examinations are a common pre-execution procedure thatis performed by many countries around the world.
These 52 individuals are all to be executed based on anti-government and terrorism related charges. The group comprises of mix of individuals, who will all be executed across different regions of the kingdom in a single day. We at ESOHR categorically oppose the death Penalty. Further more, numerous reports confirm that torture is practiced systematically and is widespread in prisons across Saudi Arabia, and the courts, especially the SCC does not adhere to the principles of fair trial, thus ESOHR believe that all 52 individuals (whose full details are unavailable due to a lack of transparency) did not receive a trial fair. Such a mass execution of this size is an uncommon move by the Saudi authorities and signals a new approach to the implementation of the death penalty and dealing with dissent.

Furthermore, we are deeply concerned for the lives of the seven innocent activists (three of whom were minors at the time of arrest). The mother of the youth have also issued a joint statement signalling their fear that their sons may be amongst the list of names in this mass execution. The youth activists Ali Al-Nimr, Dawud Al-Marhoon, Ali Al-Rebh and Mohammed Faisal Al-Shyoukh are all currently on hunger strike in protest against their unjust death penalty and because of the denial of basic needs and lack of access to amenites by the prison staff . They remain in solitary confinement at Al-Ha’ir prison in Riyadh. Furthermore, The third minor, Abdullah Al-Zaher, has been suddenly transferred to Asir prison. His regular family visit has also been cancelled as a result of this sudden and unexplained transfer.

This announcement of a mass execution comes in a year where Saudi Arabia has exceeded all previous execution records for the last two decades, with 153 executions to date in 2015, and comes after repeated calls from the international community to halt the execution of innocent activists.

The execution of minors will mean that Saudi Arabia has violated its international obligations with respect to the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) to which it acceded to in 1996. In particular Article 37(a) of the CRC states that ‘Neither capital punishment nor life imprisonment without possibility of release shall be imposed for offences committed by persons below eighteen years of age’. Furthermore, international human rights law only allows countries that already implement the death penalty to only impose it on the “most serious crimes”. However, bearing in mind the peaceful nature of these 7 activists pro-democracy activities, there is no doubt that this criteria has not been met.

ESOHR calls upon Saudi Arabia to these executions and abide by it’sinternational obligationsand to immediately all death sentences and abolish the death penalty.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

Whilst disgusting news, I did get a head tilt at people who are going to be executed having a hunger strike to protest their execution.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




Relapse wrote:
I've had it said to me that France and the U.S. are the two most free countries in the world. I never thought about it much one way or the other, to tell the truth.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I might have to research that, though.


I did that about 5 years ago, it's how I ended up in canada, it was 3rd at the time.

in economic freedom: canada 6, us 12
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

in personal freedom: canada 5, US 21
http://theweek.com/speedreads/441508/united-states-ranked-21st-worldwide-personal-freedom

Norway, iceland and the netherlands always seem to place highly as well.



 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

So, twitter, Canada.

Wasn't a guy recently sentenced to 2 years with no internet (that he relies on for his living) for disagreeing with a feminist?

I've only heard about it from relatively rightwing sources so some perspective from others would be appreciated.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 MrDwhitey wrote:
So, twitter, Canada.

Wasn't a guy recently sentenced to 2 years with no internet (that he relies on for his living) for disagreeing with a feminist?

I've only heard about it from relatively rightwing sources so some perspective from others would be appreciated.


sounds plausible, I haven't heard of that, so I wouldn't know where to start looking.

Feminist do seem to have a thing for destroying mens carrier for suggesting they might be wrong about their ideas. but that would affect canada and the states equally I'd guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/26 21:29:52


 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 Orlanth wrote:
Atheist bigotry does not an argument make. Religious rights should not and are not viably measured against your yardstick of hating religion.


Religious rights should be the same for everyone, regardless of what they believe or do not believe. One should not have extra special rights simply because their beliefs were those of the people in power.

If you realise you're responding off topic after a mod asks you to return to a topic, edit out the off topic stuff please, rather than leaving it there with a "sorry", motyak

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/27 06:45:50


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Indeed. Freedom means different things depending on your perspective.

USA has more freedom for buying a gun, less for having an abortion.
France has more freedom for having an abortion, less for wearing a burqa.
Britain has more freedom for wearing a burqa, less for committing a libel.

USA has the death penalty, France and UK don't.
France has a law against Holocaust Denial, UK and USA don't.
UK has a state religion, USA and France are secular.

But at the fundamental level, all three countries are liberal representative democracies with the rule of law, freedom of speech (within variable limits), freedom of religion, and so on.


Actually in most jurisdictions, the rights to abortion are more liberal in the US than Western European countries.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.


Back to topic.

Indeed, back to topic, motyak

The blogger who made the 'Isis like' commentary indeed has a point, According to some press reports Ashraf Fayadh is under sentence of death for apostasy (he is apparently now an atheist). According to other reports he was sentenced to death for blasphemy contained within a book of poetry he wrote. It is unclear which, if either case is true.

Fayadh was already under a four year sentence and 800 lashes for the same offense. Has he already been punished by the lash? Or was that sentence deferred. If the former he is being punished twice, and in any event to step up to a death penalty from a previous sentencing is extreme even for Saudi Arabia.

ISIS like looks fairly accurate to me. What are the Saudis doing.

Leaving the actual case of Fayadh aside (for purpose of clarity argument only), do the Saudis expect to be able to redact Twitter, which is US based and defended by US free speech laws.
Clearly many in the Saudi government are not idiots, and they can see that a lawsuit is essentially unwinnable, especially as the distinction between ISIS death squads and the Saudi judicial system would have to be seen through western idiom to have any bearing on Twitter.
The Saudis must think they have influence in the US that exceeds the influence they actually possess. Even if the US government can be pursuaded to see the Saudi case favourably for diplomatic reasons this will mean squat in front of a jury once Twitters legal team get to explaining.

Like with the case itself there is far more to this story than we can see. At face value it just doesn't add up in its current form.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/27 06:46:32


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 MrDwhitey wrote:
So, twitter, Canada.

Wasn't a guy recently sentenced to 2 years with no internet (that he relies on for his living) for disagreeing with a feminist?

I've only heard about it from relatively rightwing sources so some perspective from others would be appreciated.


Gregory Alan Elliot
he hasn't been sentenced yet, that's scheduled for january 22. poor guy though, so 3 years and 2 months since he was arrested, and put on trial because he tweeted, and nearly 100k in court fees.

If anyone wants to support him:
https://www.generosity.com/fundraising/gregory-alan-elliott-twitter-trial-support-fund


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 LordofHats wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:when did Saudi Arabia turn into tumblr


This made me laugh more than it should have.

Relapse wrote:They just tumbled on in.


My sides can't handle it.


I bow my head in shame. It was one of those, "It seemed funny in the early morning things".
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





sirlynchmob wrote:
 MrDwhitey wrote:
So, twitter, Canada.

Wasn't a guy recently sentenced to 2 years with no internet (that he relies on for his living) for disagreeing with a feminist?

I've only heard about it from relatively rightwing sources so some perspective from others would be appreciated.


sounds plausible, I haven't heard of that, so I wouldn't know where to start looking.

Feminist do seem to have a thing for destroying mens carrier for suggesting they might be wrong about their ideas. but that would affect canada and the states equally I'd guess.

No, feminists don't hold anywhere near to that much power in the US. The worst that you can get here is the news agencies turning on you or have Twitter ban you.

To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.

We must all join the Kroot-startes... 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Because we have that wonderful old thing called free speech.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Probably the Saudis have said they will sue Twitter because they have to say they are going to do something in order to satisfy expectations of their own population, even though obviously it cannot work in practice.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Because we have that wonderful old thing called free speech.
And that saves you from charges of harassment and threats?

and on topic:
https://www.amnestyusa.org/news/press-releases/saudi-arabia-execution-looms-for-at-least-50-on-death-row-including-shi-a-activists

In case anyone notices, there's no relation.

Spoiler:
Saudi Arabia: Execution looms for at least 50 on death row, including Shi’a activists

More than 50 people are at increased risk of imminent execution following reports in national media outlets close to the Saudi Arabian authorities that they will soon be put to death in a single day, warns Amnesty International.
The mothers of five Shi’a Muslim activists who are among the prisoners have implored King Salman for clemency, after learning that preparations potentially associated with impending executions have taken place.

“Saudi Arabia’s macabre spike in executions this year, coupled with the secretive and arbitrary nature of court decisions and executions in the kingdom, leave us no option but to take these latest warning signs very seriously,” said James Lynch, Deputy Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at Amnesty International.

“These executions must not go ahead and Saudi Arabia must lift the veil of secrecy around its death penalty cases, as part of a fundamental overhaul of its criminal justice system.”

Among the five activists named in the mothers’ appeal are juvenile offenders Ali al-Nimr, Abdullah al-Zaher and Hussein al-Marhoon. Amnesty International has campaigned for their death sentences to be quashed, because of credible allegations they were tortured and had grossly unfair trials at the Specialized Criminal Court, which is used in counter-terrorism cases. International law prohibits the use of the death penalty against anyone under the age of 18.

Besides Amnesty International campaigning on their behalf, a group of UN experts and the European Parliament have both urged Saudi Arabia to halt the execution of Ali al-Nimr. The UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has publicly stated he does “not expect [Ali] al-Nimr to be executed”.

Ali al-Nimr and his uncle Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr, a prominent Shi’a Muslim cleric, were among six activists arrested following protests calling for political reform, which began in the kingdom’s predominantly Shi’a Eastern Province in 2011.

“Among those who are at imminent risk of execution are these six Shi’a Muslim activists who were clearly convicted in unfair trials. It is clear that the Saudi Arabian authorities are using the guise of counter-terrorism to settle political scores,” said James Lynch.

“Three of those six activists were sentenced for ‘crimes’ committed while they were children and have said that they were tortured to confess. Given what we know about the deep flaws in the Saudi Arabian criminal justice system, we have serious concerns about the fairness of death penalty trials in the country.”

The mothers went public with their fears after learning this week that their sons had been subjected to a “random” medical examination in prison, which they believe is potentially a sign of impending execution. Four of the five have been kept in solitary confinement, in a prison wing housing death row inmates, since they were moved to al-Ha’ir prison in Riyadh in early October.

In the letter, they call for their sons’ convictions to be quashed and retrials to be carried out in public proceedings that meet international fair trial standards, with independent observers allowed to attend.

Earlier this week, a number of Saudi Arabian newspapers close to the authorities reported that up to 55 “from al-Qai’da terrorists and al-Awamiyya” will be executed “in the next few days”. Al-Awamiyya is a predominantly Shi’a area of Saudi Arabia’s Eastern Province where demonstrations took place in 2011.

“Beheading or otherwise executing dozens of people in a single day would mark a dizzying descent to yet another outrageous low for Saudi Arabia, whose authorities have continued to show stone-faced cynicism and even open defiance when authorities and ordinary people around the world question their sordid record on the use of the death penalty,” said James Lynch.

Saudi Arabia has long been one of the most prolific executioners in the world, and its record is worsening following a massive recent spike in executions. Amnesty International will release its annual report on death sentences and executions around the world in early 2016.

Amnesty International opposes the death penalty at all times and in all cases without exception – regardless of who is accused, the crime, guilt or innocence or method of execution.

 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

sirlynchmob wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Because we have that wonderful old thing called free speech.
And that saves you from charges of harassment and threats?

No, it means charges like that are treated with much more scrutiny. You really have to be harassing/threatening them, and it has to be a viable threat, for charges to stick, or be leveled for the most part.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Honestly this is horrifying.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/aab8e56dc4724605a71d9fb6eb21c383/saudi-man-gets-10-years-2000-lashes-over-atheist-tweets



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK


Floggings, be headings and other frivolities are nothing!

A high ranking Saudi cleric said recently that Chess is anti Islamic or some such nonsense.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti



   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Floggings, be headings and other frivolities are nothing!

A high ranking Saudi cleric said recently that Chess is anti Islamic or some such nonsense.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti





What?! The Arabs helped invented Chess! Does not compute XD And how the hell do you gamble on Chess?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/27 23:41:47


   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

It's not about religion. It's about control. So tired of people blaming the tool being used, instead of the ones using it...

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 djones520 wrote:
It's not about religion. It's about control. So tired of people blaming the tool being used, instead of the ones using it...


One could say that religion IS a tool of control... because, well, it is...

   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

We ally with Saudi Arabia because they are rich, powerful hypocrites and so are we.

The abuses of the Saudi government are widely known. They publicly behead people in a square with specially designed drains for the blood for medieval "offenses".

They are bombing the crap out of Yemen with arms sold to them by Germany, France and the UK.

There's no defense of our alliance with the Saudis past "They have a lot of oil and they are very rich."

I cannot wait til we've abandoned oil as our main energy source and can consign this brutal, evil monarchy to the dustbin of history.

   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




 Da Boss wrote:

There's no defense of our alliance with the Saudis past "They have a lot of oil and they are very rich."


Practicality. We have no idea exactly what would happen if the Saudi monarchy was overthrown, but seeing how Iraq and Syria look we can guess it probably wouldn't be good. And ofc, that would leave Iran as the only stable country in the region, allowing it to spread it's influence far and wide.
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Spetulhu wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:

There's no defense of our alliance with the Saudis past "They have a lot of oil and they are very rich."


Practicality. We have no idea exactly what would happen if the Saudi monarchy was overthrown, but seeing how Iraq and Syria look we can guess it probably wouldn't be good. And ofc, that would leave Iran as the only stable country in the region, allowing it to spread it's influence far and wide.

Considering the state of the other countries in the region, that might actually not a bad thing... All hail the Neo-Persian Empire!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/28 15:32:18


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gr
Rough Rider with Boomstick




And Historically Persians did control that whole region. They were the first to unify all of middle and near east under one banner.

You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Spetulhu wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:

There's no defense of our alliance with the Saudis past "They have a lot of oil and they are very rich."


Practicality. We have no idea exactly what would happen if the Saudi monarchy was overthrown, but seeing how Iraq and Syria look we can guess it probably wouldn't be good. And ofc, that would leave Iran as the only stable country in the region, allowing it to spread it's influence far and wide.


You forgot to mention Israel as a stable country, but your point is taken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/28 20:04:27


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





North Carolina

 SilverMK2 wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
It's not about religion. It's about control. So tired of people blaming the tool being used, instead of the ones using it...


One could say that religion IS a tool of control... because, well, it is...




So is government, the military, criminal justice systems, schools, the media organs, health care industries, colleges/universities, regulatory agencies, etc, etc.


All, like religious institutions, are institutions of social control. Which is not a bad thing, since it allows us to have functioning societies and allows civilization to exist.

Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Da Boss wrote:
We ally with Saudi Arabia because they are rich, powerful hypocrites and so are we.

The abuses of the Saudi government are widely known. They publicly behead people in a square with specially designed drains for the blood for medieval "offenses".

They are bombing the crap out of Yemen with arms sold to them by Germany, France and the UK.

There's no defense of our alliance with the Saudis past "They have a lot of oil and they are very rich."

I cannot wait til we've abandoned oil as our main energy source and can consign this brutal, evil monarchy to the dustbin of history.


The Saudis are in a panic on the oil front ever since fracking was introduced as a way to pull oil out of the ground. The amount of oil made available from this method has caused them to try to flood their competitors out with cheap oil, knocking the price down to a current average of 30-33 dollars a barrel. The oil angle is going to play less of a part as time goes on, I think. With that goes their wealth, unless there comes a day where there's a run on sand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/28 20:13:26


 
   
 
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