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 DarknessEternal wrote:
There are differences between Corsair versions of things and Craftworld versions of things. I don't see any reason to assume they are not intentional.

Would be a very odd difference, especially as the weapon has the same name and both are identically priced, also the reference section difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gave them a call, apparently it's meant to be the longer range, the 24" is a typo.

 CoteazRox wrote:
According to this answer from Forgeworld, Firestorms can be used by Craftworld Eldars:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/4412z7/doom_of_mymeara_answers_from_forgeworld/

If your group accepts that , then sure. My group nor any events I have attended accept an email. Generally it is accepted as an FAQ or something of the sort posted on their website.

Kind of annoying there seem to be quite a lot of pretty significant typos/errors in the book. Do forgeworld ever release FAQ's? Was planning on running a firestorm in my 1850 list which would be fine in my group, but I imagine would be an issue in even small tournaments. Seems a genuine alternative to a crimson hunter exarch in terms of anti air power, sure it's probably not as good, but bit more flexible perhaps and a way to get interceptor into an eldar army.

I want the Firestorm to work and it totally could...however being locked into only shooting flyers or skimmers effectively, really hurts it. 300pts for 2 Firestorms or I could get 6 EML shots from the Wasps for the same cost, two Nightwings are cheaper, both are more versatile and do not pay points for their invulns/cover saves. The Firestorms lack scout as well so catching those skimmers rear armor will be tough. Only thing it really has going for it is weight of dice and ignores cover, which would kick ass if it always had ignores cover and not just against flyers/skimmers, plus its only fast skimmers for that ignores cover. Not to mention they take up a heavy support slot which, unless you are going CAD, are limited. It is funny too that older fluff on the Firestorm said Eldar rarely use it and only ever do if they don't have flyers Take two Nightwings in the Khain's Hawks Squadron to give two bright lances/shuriken cannons ignores cover and firestorms are even further irrelevant.

The Super Heavies are good. The Lynx though is better! For around 100pts more than the Cobra and the Scorpion you could bring 3 Lynx each separate with their own weapon, grouped up with the same loadout, or with one in a Cotorie for its 48" range (even if the Craftworld ones are only 24" its still 3 TL true strength D shots each or that 5" blast.) and give the other two in a Skyhunters Squadron formation sonic lances! Keep in mind though that Lynx don't come with any inherent save which adds to their cost a bit. That can be negated by only taking one or two! Not only that but you wont be giving your opponent at an extra VP for killing your Super Heavy (both if you take the formation and in certain tournaments.).

The D-impaler on the Cobra is pretty sweet though. Ignoring void shields is cool, but only one shot!

What are peoples' thoughts on the lynx vs. warp hunter?

Which would you rather take and why?

Which is better?

Which is more points efficient?

If you have any questions you want answered in an FAQ now is the time to ask them.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1583759348611365/?type=3&theater

I didn't think that included forgeworld rules.

They did not state otherwise and I would assume it's the same people involved in the rules writing process. Anyways no harm in trying.

Mj445 wrote:
I want the Firestorm to work and it totally could...however being locked into only shooting flyers or skimmers effectively, really hurts it. 300pts for 2 Firestorms or I could get 6 EML shots from the Wasps for the same cost, two Nightwings are cheaper, both are more versatile and do not pay points for their invulns/cover saves. The Firestorms lack scout as well so catching those skimmers rear armor will be tough. Only thing it really has going for it is weight of dice and ignores cover, which would kick ass if it always had ignores cover and not just against flyers/skimmers, plus its only fast skimmers for that ignores cover. Not to mention they take up a heavy support slot which, unless you are going CAD, are limited. It is funny too that older fluff on the Firestorm said Eldar rarely use it and only ever do if they don't have flyers Take two Nightwings in the Khain's Hawks Squadron to give two bright lances/shuriken cannons ignores cover and firestorms are even further irrelevant.

The Super Heavies are good. The Lynx though is better! For around 100pts more than the Cobra and the Scorpion you could bring 3 Lynx each separate with their own weapon, grouped up with the same loadout, or with one in a Cotorie for its 48" range (even if the Craftworld ones are only 24" its still 3 TL true strength D shots each or that 5" blast.) and give the other two in a Skyhunters Squadron formation sonic lances! Keep in mind though that Lynx don't come with any inherent save which adds to their cost a bit. That can be negated by only taking one or two! Not only that but you wont be giving your opponent at an extra VP for killing your Super Heavy (both if you take the formation and in certain tournaments.).

The D-impaler on the Cobra is pretty sweet though. Ignoring void shields is cool, but only one shot!

Yeah the skyfire rule on the firestorm is a bit of killer, would probably be pretty good vs dark eldar though with all their skimmers. If it had a rule where it just shot full bs at both ground and air it would be pretty good.

I'm running a lynx at the moment, if you can keep it alive it's an awesome hunter of basically anything big you see in normal games, e.g. wraithknights, knight titans, riptides. 3 twinlinked full d shots are brutal, you've got a good shot of killing almost anything in one phase, unfortunately it's not so good at taking a hit back, and if you jink you're giving up a lot of firepower. Holofields are mandatory. I rang up forgeworld regarding the salvo range, they said they get asked this a lot and it's a typo, it should be 48" for both corsair and craftworld versions. For my group that's enough, unfortunately think tournaments will need at least an faq.

I agree with you regarding the lynx and cobra...but I now own a cobra so will be using it anyway! The 36" range I can see being a problem though in the apocalypse games I'll run it in, maybe crystal targeting matrix will be needed to make sure I get at least 1 shot off on the right target. But I think the main thing with D weapons is just more shots is always better. Scorpion looks pretty good, 60" range and 2 shots is fantastic. Or you could run that apocalypse formation of 5 fire prisms and a SD/10/... apocalyptic mega blast on someone for not many more points.

What do you guys think of the phoenix? The model for me is the prettiest eldar flyer. I face a lot of infantry based MEQ lists and was thinking of taking this instead of a crimson hunter exarch. I don't face much in the way other flyers, figure with vector dancer to minimise cover and strafing run you could quite easily take out 4 or 5 marines a turn which isn't bad. Whether this is really better than a crimson hunter exarch or even a wraithfighters D templates I'm not sure. 205 pts isn't cheap, but it doesn't seem terrible either. Comes with stealth too to make it a bit more survivable.

What are peoples' thoughts on the lynx vs. warp hunter?

Which would you rather take and why?

Which is better?

Which is more points efficient?

If I had to choose between the two for an all comers list, I'd go with Warp Hunters. Being able to get at least 2 little blasts from each and those doing a pen + d3 hull points from behind LoS is awesome. The ability to switch to the template if necessary is the other benefit, whereas the Lynx has to choose if it wants that ignores cover AP2 wounding on 3+ HELLSTORM or the 3 sD shots/single large blast.

On the Phoenix, if you don't need Nightwings for popping vehicles or flyers then they are a good choice for great anti-infantry with a good amount of dakka to take down enemy fliers or some light armor. Although three hornets or wasps are 5pts more and can lay out an obscene amount of anti-infantry shots and the Nightwings are cheaper, plus even more versatile in an anti-armor role, the phoenix combines them pretty well.

I have come across what looks like an error in the book and was wondering about the right interpretation. In the corsair warp hunter entry it says that the D-flail counts 5s as 6s on the D-table whereas on the eldar entry it says the D-flail rolls at -1 on the warp table (meaning a roll of 2 will not wound).

Which is the right one? Or are they meant to differ between corsair and eldar vehicles?

The rule has the same name - dispersed - in both vehicles so do I just choose?

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
I have come across what looks like an error in the book and was wondering about the right interpretation. In the corsair warp hunter entry it says that the D-flail counts 5s as 6s on the D-table whereas on the eldar entry it says the D-flail rolls at -1 on the warp table (meaning a roll of 2 will not wound).

Which is the right one? Or are they meant to differ between corsair and eldar vehicles?

The rule has the same name - dispersed - in both vehicles so do I just choose?

As it stands, the Craftworld D-flail is the same as their other distort weapons with the -1 on the chart and Corsairs is 6's are 5's.

Craftworlders can take as many warp hunters or lynx as they want, Corsairs are limited to 0-1 per detachment.

There are other differences too, like how Corsair Wasps can grab a splinter cannon, but Craftworlders can't. Or battle focus and reckless abandon. Or how Craftworld Night Spinners/Fire Prisms have that join fire thing, whereas Corsairs versions do not. Different rules for the same unit from a different army.

^The confusion in this case comes from it being the exact same rule written in two different ways.

 Imateria wrote:
^The confusion in this case comes from it being the exact same rule written in two different ways.

Except that it's not the same rule.

With -1 to the chart, it looks like this:
1-2 - No effect.
3-6 - Seriously wounded.

With 6 counting as 5, it looks like this:
1 - No effect.
2-5 - Seriously Wounded.

The -1 chart has twice the odds of doing nothing, hence it isn't the same rule.

The confusion lies in that it's the exact same weapon - a D-flail - and the exact same rule - it's named DISPERSED in both instances - yet they have different rules with Craftworld hunters supposedly needing 3+ to damage as opposed to 2+ with Corsair hunters.

I would understand if the corsair hunter had a different name for the rule, but they are the exact same word. It just seems like a lazy, sloppy mistake.

It's like 2 weapons having the bladestorm special rule - but one of them causes AP2 wounds on 6s whereas the other causes rending hits on 6s.

 Drinkgasoline wrote:
The confusion lies in that it's the exact same weapon - a D-flail - and the exact same rule - it's named DISPERSED in both instances - yet they have different rules with Craftworld hunters supposedly needing 3+ to damage as opposed to 2+ with Corsair hunters.

I would understand if the corsair hunter had a different name for the rule, but they are the exact same word. It just seems like a lazy, sloppy mistake.

It's like 2 weapons having the bladestorm special rule - but one of them causes AP2 wounds on 6s whereas the other causes rending hits on 6s.

Yes, well, thems the breaks.

Has anyone used Malevolents with any degree of success? Would like a reason to dust off my Wyches.

Mj445 wrote:
Has anyone used Malevolents with any degree of success? Would like a reason to dust off my Wyches.

I'd also like to hear from anyone who's used them successfully (especially since I've already made models for them).

I've used them a few times, but each time I'm reminded why melee units with 6" moves suck.

Yes, Malovelents really (REALLY) need warp tunnel. Without it its basically just a more expensive reaver band.

Hey guys I'm a little confused with the way the force org is written in DoM2, can you ally in a Hornet Swarm to a CAD in the same way that you can ally an aspect host, i.e. without taking a guardian host/pale court host? I can't see any difference in the way that they are written. Surely it would be intended that they work in the same way? Tbh I don't really understand how you can take the crimson death or an aspect host etc without a core choice.

Yes, Formations can be taken independently and could be spammed to your hearts content.

Cool so if I wanted to take say a Lynx, there's not really any reason to not take the skyhunter squadron? Coming from fantasy building armies in 40k is complicated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone experimented yet with the quick to anger option for pale hosts with vypers? Normally an overlooked unit, but the option to give 3 separate vypers (as opposed to 1 unit of hornets) outflank and reroll reserves is an interesting option. Was thinking of runnning 3 cheap ones with just double shuricannons (if outflanking range is less of an issue, don't think 10pts is worth it for scatter lasers over them) as opposed to the ubiquitous crimson hunter exarch. Slightly different roll in the force but if you're not in a flyer heavy meta a cool option.

Ielthan wrote:
Cool so if I wanted to take say a Lynx, there's not really any reason to not take the skyhunter squadron? Coming from fantasy building armies in 40k is complicated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone experimented yet with the quick to anger option for pale hosts with vypers? Normally an overlooked unit, but the option to give 3 separate vypers (as opposed to 1 unit of hornets) outflank and reroll reserves is an interesting option. Was thinking of runnning 3 cheap ones with just double shuricannons (if outflanking range is less of an issue, don't think 10pts is worth it forscatter lasers over them) as opposed to the ubiquitous crimson hunter exarch. Slightly different roll in the force but if you're not in a flyer heavy meta a cool option.

Right, if you are playing regular Eldar the formations help free up slots and you can then take as many as you have or are willing to spend points on, no reason not to because the IA11 vehicle formations have no restrictions except a min unit size. Corsairs have a 1 per detachment limit (for lynx and warp hunters), so can use the Craftworld formations to help get more in (as Craftworlds versions). I haven;t used the Pale Courts (pure Corsairs player here) but I can tell you I am a huge fan of Vypers...they are honestly spammable Venoms and for the Corsairs they can take a Bright Lance or EML, which the dedicated transport Venom cannot. The only downside to the Craftworlders version is no scout, which helps the Corsairs version a lot.

BTW if anyone was looking to make their own Firestorms I've found really good longer Scatter Lasers from shapeways.com. They can get spendy, but the ones I have in hand will look awesome once I get them on a Wave Serpent body. And as far as my limited research has gone for finding this type of bit, they are the only reliable ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just played a handful of 2000pts games against Tau. The formations Craftworld IA11 brings are incredibly helpful and being able to bring 3 separate Warp Hunters helped with target saturation andthe Eldar Vehicle upgrades are made for the SD flamers (Crystal Targeting Matrix with star engines leaves a good chunk of board open to the flamer) and ignoring Crew Shaken on a 2+ with a 5++ that you can get re-rolled with a good psychic power off your Farseer HQ...Even with the 1s and 2s being nothing. The Hornet formation was confusing to me at first, OK they can jink and still fire full BS when they come in from reserves? Didn't realize it helps protect against Interceptor, which helped them immensely against Early Override Systems(?). I still brought a Prince and Hate Bringers cotorie with scatter bikes for the VP and wasp filling the elites. Tried the fliers in a number of combinations, was never satisfied with them, cut them completely.

If you start with your Wasps on the field and go second, they have no save, as Kinetic Shrouds only kick in when you move at least 6"...learned that one the hard way :(

Mj, just remember that the craftworld warp hunter formation requires them to become a unit. If only it was individual ones, it would be amazing.

 Rypher wrote:
Mj, just remember that the craftworld warp hunter formation requires them to become a unit. If only it was individual ones, it would be amazing.

Aye, took a Craftworlders CAD with Farseer and 2 scatterbike units, then filled up the heavy support slots.

Mj445 wrote:

 Rypher wrote:
Mj, just remember that the craftworld warp hunter formation requires them to become a unit. If only it was individual ones, it would be amazing.

Aye, took a Craftworlders CAD with Farseer and 2 scatterbike units, then filled up the heavy support slots.

I found taking Warp Hunters within an Eldar CAD worked much better (I run 2). The combined fire shot with 2 Warp Hunters did not impress me and firing two Warp Hunters into a single target felt like overkill in many situations. Having the flexibility to run them independently is something I found much more beneficial in most of my games.

has anyone tried and have experience with the vaultbreachers coterie?
It will probobly only have any effect when you play against high mec. lists but still, all troops will be a threat in cc.

 vipoid wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:


As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.

It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.

Renzo wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:


As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.

It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.

No, the 0-1 means you can have 0-1 Void Dreamers per army.

 vipoid wrote:

Renzo wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

GrafWattenburg wrote:


As above, Void Dreamers are 0-1 choices, so you can't have 3 in your list.

It's possible to get 2, as there is an extra HQ slow in the command, and the mandatory 1 in the primary. Obviously you have to take a prince in the mandatory slow in the command, but the 0-1 restriction is the number of that unit per slot. Nothing stopping you taking more than 1 per detachment.

No, the 0-1 means you can have 0-1 Void Dreamers per army.

That's interesting - do you have a rules reference or a page number to support that?

The reason I ask is it is extremely common to see tournament lists taking more than 1 Lord of War choice per army. Taking 2 wraithknights across 2 CADs, for example even though Lords of War are a 0-1 choice, is fairly common and I've not seen it disputed much.

Happy to be convinced otherwise though.

I can't speak for Wraithknights, as I do neither attend tournaments nor own an Eldar rulebook.

In terms of the Corsair stuff, I don't have a rulebook reference but I do have some logic: With regard to the 0-1, if it referred to how many you could take per slot, why would there be a '0' at all? If you could really chose to take 0 per slot, then you would be paying for a nonexistant Void Dreamer.

Now, maybe you're thinking that the '0' simply means that you can choose not to take that unit at all. That brings us to the Corsair Prince - who doesn't have the option to bring '0'. Hence, you'd have to take one in every HQ slot, which would contradict his own rule preventing this.

But, if you look at that number as being an army limit, then it makes perfect sense - as every Corsair army must include exactly 1 prince (hence, there is no option to take 0 in your army.

Moreover, we already have a section telling you how many models you get per FoC slot - "Unit Composition".

Indeed, if you look at the Corsair Warp Hunter Squadron, you'll notice that the 0-1 contradicts the unit composition (which allows up to 3 models). But, if the 0-1 simply means that you can only include up to one squadron in your army, this makes perfect sense.

EDIT: The 0-1 may refer to the number allowed per-detachment (as opposed to per-army). So, if your army has 3 detachments you could probably include a Void Dreamer in each.