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Well, I've had a copy of Second Edition for almost an entire day now. The main thing I noticed is that when you open the book, on the first page, it says "Warhammer 40,000 8th edition" but that's scratched out rather hastily with what appears to be a ball point pen that is running low on ink, and there's a sticker haphazardly slapped on that says "BLOT ACITON 2TH EDIT." I really like the included army lists, looking forward to playing Squats.

...


In all seriousness, however, every change I've seen - and there are many, including lots of very subtle ones - are all for the better. It's almost like they spent 4 years listening to player feedback intently, and made a better game as a result.

Ask me questions and I'll try my best to answer (I'm at work right now, but I did read the book last night).

 judgedoug wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I see they're going the 40k route and giving sergeants giant machetes now to draw enemy fire.

Well...

Apologies for going back a month but I often wondered why my 1982 Palitoy Action Force US Paratrooper came with a machete. Now I know.

 judgedoug wrote:
Well, I've had a copy of Second Edition for almost an entire day now. The main thing I noticed is that when you open the book, on the first page, it says "Warhammer 40,000 8th edition" but that's scratched out rather hastily with what appears to be a ball point pen that is running low on ink, and there's a sticker haphazardly slapped on that says "BLOT ACITON 2TH EDIT." I really like the included army lists, looking forward to playing Squats.

...


In all seriousness, however, every change I've seen - and there are many, including lots of very subtle ones - are all for the better. It's almost like they spent 4 years listening to player feedback intently, and made a better game as a result.

Ask me questions and I'll try my best to answer (I'm at work right now, but I did read the book last night).

How do officers *specifically* work now? We've been given vague descriptions but not the the difference in say a 1st and 2nd LT?

What are Germany's special rules in the generic army list? They should be different from the way Warlord has been talking

Are armored platoons mentioned in the core rules?

Can HMG's still pin down tanks?

What are some nice small changes you noticed?


I probably wont be able to get a book for a few weeks so Id like to see what the changes are. Every site that got a prerelease did a terrible job explaining the changes

Have they toned down the flametanks (that nobody can really use in friendly games at the moment)

Hell yes. Can't wait for my pre order starter kit to come in. Really looking forward to the updated rules as well as those plastic paras, particularly the .30 cal bits.

Hope to get a good battle report with all the bells and whistles down in the historical sub forum soon.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Have they toned down the flametanks (that nobody can really use in friendly games at the moment)

Yes, flamethrows and vehicle flamethrowers are very different. They all now must roll to hit, but ignore cover and down but taking minus to hits for movement, long range, pins and small team. 6" for infantry, 12" for vehicle. infantry causes d6 hits, vehicle causes d6+1 hits. +1 penetration. Flamethrowers run out of fuel on a 1.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
How do officers *specifically* work now? We've been given vague descriptions but not the the difference in say a 1st and 2nd LT?

2LT and 1LT have 6"; Captain and Major have 12".
When you activate an officer, you also activate up to x number of other units within your command range. X = 1 for 2LT, 2 for 1LT, 3 for Captain, 4 for Major. You pull those dice out from the bag. assign them to each of the units. Then after dice are assigned to officer and anyone else, you then execute the orders one at a time.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
What are Germany's special rules in the generic army list? They should be different from the way Warlord has been talking

NCO squad training on a 2+. Hitler's Buzzsaw ALLLLL LMG and MMG have +1 dice; infantry and vehicle.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Are armored platoons mentioned in the core rules?

Command vehicles are covered. Army building section lists two ways of building your army: based on historical TOE or a scenario, or, for competetive games, use the platoon selectors.
I assume Tank War might still be compatible with the unit upgrades etc.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Can HMG's still pin down tanks?

It uses the new vehicle pinning rules. Any weapon with penetration will cause pins on Inexperienced crews. Any weapon with penetration might cause pins on regular crews. Veteran crews ignore weapons that cannot penetrate from the art. So a +4 fired at long range against a Tiger's front will do nothing at all. Fired at the rear, will cause a pin.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
What are some nice small changes you noticed?

Here's a list!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- suggests 25mm bases.
- Multiple models on one bases you "imagine" a 25mm bases around them.
- Squads bought and still at full strength re-roll order tests.
- Rally ignores pins to pass order.
- Double 1 on order check removes 1+d6 pins instead of 1.
- Down is -2 to hit.
- Staying down over the turns loses d3 pins
- If you're on ambush at the end of the turn, you can choose to leave it on ambush or on a 4+ you can change it to a fire order, otherwise the dice goes back in the bag.
- You can fire over your own models as the 1" bubble is above the models as well as around.
- Dense terrain. Area terrain that you can't draw LOS through and give soft or hard cover if you're in it.
- Ambush against any type of enemy movement.
- Assault rifle range to 18".
- LMG/MMG get +1 shot.
- LMG gets 36" range.
- Medium/heavy mortar minimum range 12".
- Minimum and maximum range for medium/heavy howitzers indirect fire increased.
- Infantry flamethrowers get +1 pen.
- Vehicle flamethrowers have hits reduced to d6+1.
- Assault weapon gives tough fighter.
- Fixed weapons can pivot for -1 to hit on an advance.
- Flamethrowers roll to hit ignoring cover and down, but taking minus to hits for movement, long range, pins and small team.
- Flamethrowers run out of fuel on a 1.
- HE now uses templates! If shot misses, no scatter. If hits must cover most amount of models it can. Possible to hit multiple units.
- Reverts back to d6 system to determine hits in buildings.
- Inexperienced units cannot use spotters!
- Spotters always count as down.
- Spotters can come on the board as reserve/first wave at the same time as weapon they are spotting for.
- Shaped charge loses the -1 to hit.
- Multiple barrage measures 6" from template and not squads to see if other units are hit. Can fire smoke.
- Must nominate a loader for squad based team weapon for the game. Cannot be NCO.
- Out of range weapons for defensive fire count as shooting at long range.
- Don't lose pins after combat.
- Captain and major bonus morale range increased to 12".
- Snap to it. Officer can draw extra dice out of the bag for units with their morale bonus range. Those units then carry out their order as normal.
- Medics can't attack or claim objectives.
- FAO cannot ambush.
- Artillery scatters 3d6" on a 1.
- Uses template for a heavy howitzer if it hits a unit.
- Air strikes are stopped if 3 hits scored on plane.
- Most plane types use templates now.
- Flak doesn't use up ambush or orders.
- Cavalry no longer is 3 attacks, just tough fighter.
- Cavalry cannot recce if they have had an order that turn.
- Fanatic cannot be pinned out of the game.
- Motorbikes are hit in combat as if they were normal infantry.
- Motorbikes cannot recce if they have already had an order that turn.
- Sniper minimum range of 12". Loses the +1 to hit, but no longer take any penalties for anything other than pins and last man. Can fire normal small arms on an advance.
- Tough fighters is no longer 2 attacks. 1 attack and roll an additional dice for every hit you get (only the first time!).
- Artillery measurements from/to the breach.
- Artillery can be pivoted 360 for a -1 to hit on an advance.
- Turntable/platform has 360 fire arc.
- Gun shield give you +1 to your would roll (inexp 4+, regular 5+ and vet 6+). HE, snipers snd flamethrower ignores this.
- You have until the end of the game to re-crew a gun.
- Smoke is soft cover and dense terrain.
- All measurements for vehicles from the hull.
- Vehicles only reverse on failed order if enemy is visible in front arc.
- Vehicles can be ordered to go down (no -2 to hit though!).
- Firing pintle mounted weapons make them open topped for that turn.
- HE templates placed in centre of vehicle. If HE clips only, it hits front armour.
- Soft skins roll on the vehicle damage table if damaged (not the superficial).
- If stunned, immobilised or on fire roll a further dice. On a 4+ the turret is jammed in the direction of the incoming fire.
- Rally order works inside vehicle!
- Declare what units are in what vehicles before the game starts. Officers moral works for order check to come on.
- Cannot recce vehicles if they have already had an order that turn.
- Command vehicle does not give snap too rule.
- Can "make an opening" in a building of the unit is deployed in it at the start of a game. Counts as a window.
- Buildings only give +1 to protect like gun shields.
- HE doesn't take minus to hit for cover against units in buildings.
- 10 HE hits brings down a building. Can fire on empty buildings.
- 12 missions. 6 battle scenarios and 6 attacker-defender.
- Can deploy units in buildings that straddle deployment zones.

oh wow thats the best list of changes I've ever heard of for a new edition of a game. It's like they actually listened to feedback! What a novel concept! I hope GW is paying attention, thats some excellent changes made.

I like the new German rules too

I mean seriously kept reading it like "ah I bet they forgot- oh wait, they fixed that too".

Thats how a2nd ed should look. I'm sure there will be some small bugs down the line but all in all it looks excellent

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
oh wow thats the best list of changes I've ever heard of for a new edition of a game. It's like they actually listened to feedback! What a novel concept! I hope GW is paying attention, thats some excellent changes made.

I like the new German rules too

I literally cannot disagree with any changes that were made and I am very very excited to play my first games with 2nd edition.

I haven't played BA yet sadly, 2nd ed has me excited to get into it though. A few questions I had after watching battle report videos...

1. Can I have a squad advance forward behind a tank and stay in cover the whole time? Or does the tank have to move first, and then the enemy could have a chance to interrupt and fire at exposed infantry?

2. If a sniper picks off a squad member carrying the panzershrek it doesn't seem fair that another member can't pick it up...?

3. Tank turning and turret traverse is free and up to 360'? I play some tank sims and those are some of the biggest tactical elements. Adding those details would likely bog things down too much though.

4. Are there targeting priority rules? Can you ignore enemy soldiers charging down a trench line at you to shoot at someone else across a field?

1. You can do this now by taking an officer that can then consecutively activate 2 other units, so it activates your tank to move forward, then your infantry to stay behind it.

judgedoug, thank you for the summary of changes . I been playing BA for quite some time and a former Sarge.. I think the changes sound interesting and fun... I just hope I can relearn the new stuff as I am still the main guy to go to in my area for Bolt Action ... old habits you know

 judgedoug wrote:
snip

All of this sounds really great. They fixed or attempted to fix like 90% of the problems with this game. Sounds like a great update.

 Mr BugBear wrote:
I haven't played BA yet sadly, 2nd ed has me excited to get into it though. A few questions I had after watching battle report videos...

1. Can I have a squad advance forward behind a tank and stay in cover the whole time? Or does the tank have to move first, and then the enemy could have a chance to interrupt and fire at exposed infantry?

2. If a sniper picks off a squad member carrying the panzershrek it doesn't seem fair that another member can't pick it up...?

3. Tank turning and turret traverse is free and up to 360'? I play some tank sims and those are some of the biggest tactical elements. Adding those details would likely bog things down too much though.

4. Are there targeting priority rules? Can you ignore enemy soldiers charging down a trench line at you to shoot at someone else across a field?

1. Random dice draw is a gamble; but you can alleviate those odds by having an officer activate multiple units simultaneously.
2. Exceptional Damage is normally very hard to get (a 6 to kill, and then roll another 6 to pick). Snipers do get exceptional damage. In the case of exceptional damage, the weapon itself has also been damage or rendered inoperable. Perhaps the round hit the weapon and rendered it useless. Though note that snipers have been made quite a bit weaker in BA2.
3. No, you can only turn a tank zero times on a Run, one time on an Advance. Up to 90 degrees to turn. Turret traverse is free, but once you fire the weapon, that's the quarter it is in (so rear mounted turret weapons have to fire in the opposite quarter)
4. Yes you can ignore them, but that's a really bad idea. The game doesn't need the targeting priority rules because it will severely punish you for making a mistake like that when those guys walk up and point blank you or make your guys surrender, haha.

I like everyone of these changes. Where the hell is my band of brothers box already?

Wow, all the changes sounds good. Didn't get to play a lot of first edition but this is definitely on my to buy list. Good stuff.

Got my Band of Brothers box, here is my unboxing on my blog.

http://toomanymetalmen.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/band-of-brothers-bolt-action-2-boxed.html

I don't talk about the rules that much, because I know you guys want to get to the pictures.

Sigh.. *unboxes*

People like pictures of stuff. And a break down of the US paratrooper sprue.

Warlord Games will re-release the Wargames Factory range for the Nine Years War (War of the Grand Alliance) and the War of Spanish Succession.



https://store.warlordgames.com/products/marlboroughs-wars-starter-army

And it will be double the original price for the reason of "we had to commission new box art"

 lord marcus wrote:
And it will be double the original price for the reason of "we had to commission new box art"

Does this affect you personally in some way? If you had older models, they have increased in value.

Anyways, let's check out what you get.

Wargames Factory: 36 figures in the box.
Warlord Games: 24 figures in the box, infantry unit basing sprue, assembly diagram, painting and uniform guides, and full color flags.

USA pricing
Wargames Factory: 36 figures at $25.00 = $0.694 apiece
Warlord Games: 24 figures at $25.50 = $1.063 apiece - plus a $4.00 unit basing sprue, painting guides, and full color flags.

but wait, Wargames Factory models were always stupid expensive in the UK, so let's check the price comparison there

UK Pricing:
Wargames Factory: 36 figures at £20
Warlord Games: 24 figures at £16 plus the unit basing sprue blah blah blah

So, sure, if you already owned all the overpriced Partizan Historicals uniform guides and color plates, had pre purchased a gak ton of flags, had some special wacky basing system, and were dying to get into WSS, AND were in the USA, you might be miffed that you're getting less models.

I own sixteen of the old WGF 36-man boxes, and I would gladly have given up a large portion of them to not have also spent over $100 on uniform color guides and flags. And the freakin' Warlord unit bases are AWESOME, with the grippy nubs on the bottom.

The WSS stuff from Wargames Factory was one of their better lines (great price at the time and a lot of variation in the build of the cavalry/infantry/artillery etc.). I think everyone foresaw a price increase with typical Warlord silliness. I'm sure it's still one of the few reasonable plastic lines for WSS regardless.

 judgedoug wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:
And it will be double the original price for the reason of "we had to commission new box art"

Does this affect you personally in some way? If you had older models, they have increased in value.

Anyways, let's check out what you get.

Wargames Factory: 36 figures in the box.
Warlord Games: 24 figures in the box, infantry unit basing sprue, assembly diagram, painting and uniform guides, and full color flags.

USA pricing
Wargames Factory: 36 figures at $25.00 = $0.694 apiece
Warlord Games: 24 figures at $25.50 = $1.063 apiece - plus a $4.00 unit basing sprue, painting guides, and full color flags.

but wait, Wargames Factory models were always stupid expensive in the UK, so let's check the price comparison there

UK Pricing:
Wargames Factory: 36 figures at £20
Warlord Games: 24 figures at £16 plus the unit basing sprue blah blah blah

So, sure, if you already owned all the overpriced Partizan Historicals uniform guides and color plates, had pre purchased a gak ton of flags, had some special wacky basing system, and were dying to get into WSS, AND were in the USA, you might be miffed that you're getting less models.

I own sixteen of the old WGF 36-man boxes, and I would gladly have given up a large portion of them to not have also spent over $100 on uniform color guides and flags. And the freakin' Warlord unit bases are AWESOME, with the grippy nubs on the bottom.

Considering I can cite you at least 6 resource books with full color plates available in your local library (I am in the US.) Yes, I would take more miniatures. Granted, my college capstone paper was on uniforms for the period, but with a little research with keywords anyone could find them.

You have the price wrong it was $20 USD for 36 figs.

Which for mass scale projects was an amazing price.

I'm also still waiting for them to rerelease the skeleton warriors set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides that, flags are easily made, and basing can vary wildly.

 judgedoug wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:
And it will be double the original price for the reason of "we had to commission new box art"

Does this affect you personally in some way? If you had older models, they have increased in value.

Prove this impacts you personally or shut up! Or reinterpret it as something good! All news is good news!

WTF?

That's some quality white knighting there.

But now I'll post some thoughts on the prices:

I'll actually defend the increase in that the original WGF pricing was based off of a bad pre-discounted model set by a guy who has run multiple businesses into the ground and when the Chinese manufacturer took over the business they were saddled with their existing customer expectations. Once you add the cost of shipping over either the largest ocean on the planet (to America) or the largest land mass on the planet (to the UK), then add in a discount for stores and distributors that want to stock it, there was very little if anything left for the company that made it. And WGF USA went under and got taken over by WGF China (those aren't the official names of course). Then WGF figured out they would be better off making miniatures and let other people sell them.

Retail
Distributor Cost
Warlord's markup
Manufacturing cost
Shipping between all involved

If this is a product that can be on the store shelves and actually make money for the people involved, the old WGF failed pricing model simply has to go.

96 Infantry
15 Cavalry
3 Artillery Pieces/War Machines
12 Crew

$135

It's still a really, really good deal in my mind. Not ridiculously low like WGF prices were, but those were not sustainable. Not all WGF kits were worth the money, even in the old pricing, but the good ones are certainly worth the money at a price point comparable to other 28mm historical plastics. If I were to do 28mm historical plastics, I'd personally go with Victrix over Warlord though.

Are there price increases over the WGF prices? Of course. There had to be. They obviously didn't work.

-

Warlord is jumping on the Ronin band wagon by porting elements of Bolt Action into a small scale samurai skirmish game, Test of Honor.

I haven't read through the rules yet, but it may have some interesting concepts to borrow and port out to Ronin.

PDF is free and can be found here:

https://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/test-of-honour

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Warlord is jumping on the Ronin band wagon by porting elements of Bolt Action into a small scale samurai skirmish game, Test of Honor.

I haven't read through the rules yet, but it may have some interesting concepts to borrow and port out to Ronin.

PDF is free and can be found here:

https://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/test-of-honour

Looks interesting. Good use for the WGF samurai I guess

 frozenwastes wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:
And it will be double the original price for the reason of "we had to commission new box art"

Does this affect you personally in some way? If you had older models, they have increased in value.

That's some quality white knighting there.

It's a perfectly measured response to the original comment.

Anyone have a comparison between the WGF samurai and Zenit/Kensei? Have a pretty good amount of the latter and trying to figure out how heavy to go into ToH.

 lord marcus wrote:
Considering I can cite you at least 6 resource books with full color plates available in your local library (I am in the US.) Yes, I would take more miniatures. Granted, my college capstone paper was on uniforms for the period, but with a little research with keywords anyone could find them.

You have the price wrong it was $20 USD for 36 figs.

Which for mass scale projects was an amazing price.

I'm also still waiting for them to rerelease the skeleton warriors set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides that, flags are easily made, and basing can vary wildly.

May I recommend starting a blog about your WSS project and sharing your resource books and color plates? When I was working on my project, there was not very much publicly available information. (my college capstone paper was not on uniforms for the period)
I would have loved to have had you around when I was buying Uniforms of Marlborough's Wars books at like $35 a pop from ol' On Military Matters.

Last price rise from WGF put all boxed sets at $25, but I was buying WSS at the time so was highly aware of the WGF price increase and attempted to avoid it by buying from retailers who still had the old price.

Flag research sucks. Buying flags from vendors suck, as a lot of them are garbage. Finding high quality flags to print, also sucks. The best thing about Perry and Warlord boxes are those flags. It saves an incredible amount of time and headaches.

And the basing is the recommended basing for Black Powder, just as the box set advertises it's a Black Powder product. Much like DBA 3.0 army sets are designed for DBA.

Pre-orders are up for the Test of Honor core game, and a bundle with all the expansions:

https://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/new-releases/products/test-of-honour-samurai-game

https://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/new-releases/products/the-complete-test-of-honour-bundle

Looks like a very similar concept to what they did with the zombie game. Even the rules seem pretty similar. Stats represent number of dice to roll. The dice have either one sword, two swords, or miss on them. You need three swords to succeed at whatever you're doing. If you get 5, you can get a bonus (which varies based on the weapon you are using).

The expansions are one metal leader, some plastic models (some with metal heads provided) and all the cards and such with the rules to use the stuff. I like that there are metal heads to go with the expansions, to provide some variety and also because the original plastic heads didn't look that great to me.

Just like with the zombie stuff, they aren't offering the figures on their own, you are buying them with the game rules/components included. So if you just wanted the miniatures at a low cost, you're out of luck. The boxes do seem like they'd work out well if you wanted to use them for Dragon Rampant, as they are either 6 models, or 11 with a leader guy who you could count as having two "wounds".

I'm wondering if they are working on something very similar for the fantasy skeletons, orcs, and amazons.