Crusade of Fury (Chat room/OOC)

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**Tactical_Spam**

Spoiler:

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
Irishpeacockz wrote:
The tiller conflict could split the imperium forces apart, that is if Horatio is not like atobias and more like his grandfather than my Hounds might back him, that story arc does have potential and i hope to see it utilised

The Tillers are siding with Chaos and Xeno, openly, choosing their side makes you a traitor.

The Tillers still worship the Emperor. That's not changed. What has changed is their uncalled-for allies:

Only a single squad of Gue'vesa fom Sunstrike Cadre have actually integrated into their force, and only O'Connell and Nassau are aware of their true nature. As far as any other Tiller knows, Vandred, Hound, and everyone else are just mercs hired.
The Disciples have only come on Mason's orders, and are just using the Tillers to absorb bullets. They might fight together, but will have different end goals.
The Prin'shek Cadre is answering a message from Skyhunter, who is responding to a message they sent ages ago. The Tillers aren't involved in that. To them, they're just very lucky, and will be glad for any help they get - but they are not traitors to the Golden Throne.

(Not to mention that both Pavus - who your Scions sided with - and Tobias Payne used Xeno Mercenaries, with Tobias recruiting an entire warband of Kroot and creating an armistice with my own Tau, and Pavus even committing treason against Zonand and those who opposed his plans. Which your Scions carried out.
Are your own men traitors? )

And I will echo those points on a better narrative drive. So far, there's no real division in the Imperial forces, not just in ideology or fealty but even just in taskforce or objective, and the Xenos and Chaos factions have no choice but to team up and fight head on, which doesn't make sense for many forces. Aside from "attack a city, maybe win, attack another city", there is very little to strive for. If the Megalith changes that, I'll be happy.

Take this how you will, but at the same time in the previous Crusade, I was three days away from posting the first of the three finale chunks. A month after that, the CoF was officially over, save for a few epilogue posts after. (I took a month to write two chunks? Jeez... )
Food for thought.

The Arbiters, as far as I know (and not that they make much of a difference), are supposed to be universally distrusted by their Imperium allies, which is why I explicitly removed them from the pool of armies that could lead the defense against the gargant. I guess it makes a difference when one has more material to work with.

**Irishpeacockz**

If im not mistaken didnt they warn the rest of the imperium about the gargant ? While my hounds mightnt trust them they will keep that in mind when dealing with them in the future

**Tactical_Spam**

Irishpeacockz wrote:
If im not mistaken didnt they warn the rest of the imperium about the gargant ? While my hounds mightnt trust them they will keep that in mind when dealing with them in the future

Yes and they chose to send one of the Astartes who was not an original member of the New Order (Nu-Alhuraq) instead of Hetarr, who was a member and thus, would be less trusted.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Bobthehero wrote:He's not sending his xenos allies to fight loyal imperial forces. He's using to put down a rebellion, that's good enough in the Imperium book.

But wasn't Pavus using xeno forces to assassinate the Lord Governor of the entire Crusade fleet? Not to mention the fact he actively hired them, as opposed to the Tillers finding allies just showing up to fight with them?

And from an alternate point, Payne is still actively using xenos forces. Why can't he use Imperial ones? Unless he thinks xenos are better than Imperial, which makes him a heretic. HERESY!

Or the fact he actively signed a truce with Sunstrike - does he think the xenos can't be killed? Or that they might make good allies? HERESY!

Regardless of why he's using them, he still is.

From a purely objective Imperial standpoint, I can't see why a canny Imperial general would keep him in power. His productivity index is lower than any Payne before him, and it's shown that Horatio has a motivational power far stronger than Tobias', even with Horatio's low status. Seeing as the Imperium values productivity, why would you not take the more efficient candidate, Horatio, or one of Tobias' nephews/nieces? Of course, problems arise, despite Horatio's bastard birth, because he is a closer blood relation to Tobias than his nephews.

Tactical_Spam wrote:The Arbiters, as far as I know (and not that they make much of a difference), are supposed to be universally distrusted by their Imperium allies, which is why I explicitly removed them from the pool of armies that could lead the defense against the gargant. I guess it makes a difference when one has more material to work with.

Yeah, but they are still (generally) working with them. Their goal is still the same as the rest of the Imperium's, except they probably can't rely on allies.

**Palleus**

Weighing in on the faction splitting idea, I'm kinda in favor of it. Don't want to force anything that would be out of character, of course, but the crusade does have a bit of a feel of whack-a-mole. Where an anti-imperium threat arises, and they band together and smack it down. Then another anti-imperium threat arises, and they band together and smack it down. Not the best for us xenos/chaos guys who would like to have some kind of fighting chance of doing something really cool except for striking a cool pose before we get hammered into the floor.

Of course, the idea of having goals other than just fighting each other is also a great idea. Of course, I say this, and my scions' whole point of coming here is proving themselves worthy of being in the imperium by combat.

**Bobthehero**

That's the advantage of the Impeirum, Xeno/Chaos players advantage is too strike where and when there cannot be Impeirum force present, unless the Impeirum does not band together, then it gets into 1 vs 1.

**War Kitten**

Everyone's sitting here talking about alliances and my Eldar are just sitting in the corner alone, because my one ally has stopped posting

**Irishpeacockz**

Again like Jhe i've seen robin active in other forums just not this one

**War Kitten**

That's what I was referring to. Robin doesn't really post here much anymore

**Sgt_Smudge**

Bobthehero wrote:That's the advantage of the Impeirum, Xeno/Chaos players advantage is too strike where and when there cannot be Impeirum force present, unless the Impeirum does not band together, then it gets into 1 vs 1.

Yes, but the canonical disadvantage of the Imperium is that they are spread too thinly to deal with all threats - they can defend their key worlds, and expand in a few places, but for every world they hold, another is lost, and it's only a matter of time until their key worlds are all that's left. Whereas here, where forces can jump between warzones with relative ease, there's no tension of spreading one's army, because they don't need to.

You can't cite Xenos and Chaos having an advantage, because they can't even take advantage of it, due to the ready availability of Imperial troops.

(Plus if we're using canon, why the hell are there so many Space Marines/Space Marine Chapters on one planet? Canon needs to be suspended if we work on single planets.)

I'd never propose forcing people to change alliegance, or delete factions, but maybe more area/enemies are needed (hey, look, a orbital space station belonging to the Blood Dragons just fell out of the warp into orbit, who wants to claim it, beware of what's onboard!), or something to mitigate the very fast speed Imperial forces can recover from battle and join new ones.

War Kitten wrote:Everyone's sitting here talking about alliances and my Eldar are just sitting in the corner alone, because my one ally has stopped posting

Yeah, that has got to suck. You may have to forge new alliances or piggyback on the success of others until you have a masterplan. Or, surgical strikes on key figures to destabilise the enemy? Won't lie, Eldar are in no position to assault full out.

**Bobthehero**

I see a lot more posts about Xenos factions than I see Imperials, there's also roughly the same amount of Imperials and Xenos, then you add Chaos into the mix, the non-Imps players should be able to attack moer places than the Imperials can defend, without metagaming too much, that is.

**Irishpeacockz**

I reckon you see more xenos stuff as a few imperial factions are still tied up with he gargant event, at least three space marine chapters amongst others. Yes there may be more chaos/xenos players but they may not be actively fighting the imperials ie Hannibal and the eldar for example but this has been brought up before and would rather not just begin to repeat myself

**Sgt_Smudge**

Bobthehero wrote:
I see a lot more posts about Xenos factions than I see Imperials, there's also roughly the same amount of Imperials and Xenos, then you add Chaos into the mix, the non-Imps players should be able to attack moer places than the Imperials can defend, without metagaming too much, that is.

This may be true, but how many of those xenos posts are attacks on Imperial holdings? Most xenos ones I see are either updates, fluff pieces, or attacks on NPC forces.

Contrast this with how many holdings Imperials have, and how many xenos/Chaos forces have taken from them. As that stands, the other factions look much less threatening. Not to mention the built-in PDF of each city effectively acting as a buffer for non-Imperial assaults. Even if all xenos/Chaos players attacked and forced the Imperium to engage on 1:1 basis, those unengaged would still have to contend with PDF.
Seeing as xenos/Chaos forces have no such static defences, the same cannot be said of the Imperium.

**War Kitten**

I know that my Eldar have no interest (currently) in attacking the Imperials, and I suspect Smudge's Tau are in a similar boat for the most part

**Bobthehero**

Have you been in New Pavus at all?

**Palleus**

War Kitten wrote:
Everyone's sitting here talking about alliances and my Eldar are just sitting in the corner alone, because my one ally has stopped posting

*Pats WK consolingly*

Bobthehero wrote:
I see a lot more posts about Xenos factions than I see Imperials, there's also roughly the same amount of Imperials and Xenos, then you add Chaos into the mix, the non-Imps players should be able to attack moer places than the Imperials can defend, without metagaming too much, that is.

Lets make sure with a headcount (not counting the guys that haven't posted in ages)

Imperium Armies: 11 (or 10, Not counting kroot)
Bob's Scions,
Chazz's Inquisition,
Drakka's wyrm guard,
My scions,
Vanguard's scottish guard,
WK's chem dogs,
Irish's Wolf Marines,
WK's knights
Kharne's Shark Marines
Kroot (sort of)
The ex-Dorn's last wish

Chaos/xenos armies: 9 (7 not counting the guys not actually here yet.)
My orks,
Smudge's Tau
BC's scary marines (not here yet)
TEoN's scary marines (not here yet)
Irish's plague cult
Kharne's Necron/Tau/Necro-Lizards
WK's Eldar
Chazz's orks
Ezra's chaos forces? (Too much craziness for me to know what's going on here

)

So if my headcount is right (witch it certainly might not be) that means the imperium is, in fact, outnumbering the chaos and xenos combined. Also, something I still need to point out, the chaos and xenos forces aren't instant allies like the imperium is. Edar would never fight with chaos, for example. Hannibal and Warprida' aren't exactly friends, and actually had been fighting each other most of the crusade. Alliances are far more shaky with these guys than they are with the imperium, which seems to be rock solid.

So I guess all that to is say, chaos/xenos physically can't attack more places than the imperium forces can defend, because there are more active imperium forces than xenos forces. (And I think the main reason why you aren't seeing as many imperium posts as xenos posts is because some are still waiting for the gargant fight to be resolved)

**War Kitten**

I wasn't aware that Smudge was sending an entire attack force there Bob. My impression was that he had a few guys there to keep an eye on the Tillers under the guise of being mercenaries

**Irishpeacockz**

Bobthehero wrote:
Have you been in New Pavus at all?

I heard its lovely this time of year

**Bobthehero**

War Kitten wrote:
I wasn't aware that Smudge was sending an entire attack force there Bob. My impression was that he had a few guys there to keep an eye on the Tillers under the guise of being mercenaries

Its a sneaky way, but its a way to fight the Imperium.

**Sgt_Smudge**

War Kitten wrote:I wasn't aware that Smudge was sending an entire attack force there Bob. My impression was that he had a few guys there to keep an eye on the Tillers under the guise of being mercenaries

This is true. I have five Gue'vesa deployed there. Not an attack force.

Bobthehero wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
I wasn't aware that Smudge was sending an entire attack force there Bob. My impression was that he had a few guys there to keep an eye on the Tillers under the guise of being mercenaries

Its a sneaky way, but its a way to fight the Imperium.

Actually, the only reason at all why my Tau are even there is because they had a debt to pay to Nassau, and being the honourable/stupid fellows they are, upheld his request. They have no animosity towards any faction in particular, save for the Tau Empire itself.

Why else would I have actively sought out the Imperium to arrange an alliance of sorts?

**Bobthehero**

Cloak and dagger '' see this can't be us, we made an alliance with you, yes? ''

**Irishpeacockz**

Do I get a taste of salt in here ?

**Bobthehero**

I've already made my opinion pretty clear with thigns regarding New Pavus, no?

**War Kitten**

To be fair, things are looking a bit grim in New Pavus for me and Bob right now

**Sgt_Smudge**

Bobthehero wrote:
Cloak and dagger '' see this can't be us, we made an alliance with you, yes? ''

It's an alliance, no? The Governor accepted it, and Sunstrike Cadre has made no attack on Imperial holdings. Nor did we ever intend to.
Of course, we made alliances to the Tillers as well, which bound us by honour to heed them, but that is beyond the Imperium's knowledge.

**Palleus**

Question: Bob, aren't you the guy that shot up your allies with a bunch of basilisks? What's up with the hate on cloak and dagger?

**Bobthehero**

I did not, someone else wrote that part, I would not have handled it that way, but I've been rolling with it since then.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Yes, to be fair to Bob, I did write that part up.

However, it is true that the Scions chose to side with Pavus instead of Zonand, and were on the winning side. In order to have the Scions and Tallarn end up victorious over the entire Imperial front, I had to employ a bit of trickery. Either way, Scion and Tallarn friendly fire would have occurred.

It's not like the Scions were just written like that - they actively betrayed Zonand.

**Tactical_Spam**

Spoiler:

Palleus wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Everyone's sitting here talking about alliances and my Eldar are just sitting in the corner alone, because my one ally has stopped posting

*Pats WK consolingly*

Bobthehero wrote:
I see a lot more posts about Xenos factions than I see Imperials, there's also roughly the same amount of Imperials and Xenos, then you add Chaos into the mix, the non-Imps players should be able to attack moer places than the Imperials can defend, without metagaming too much, that is.

Lets make sure with a headcount (not counting the guys that haven't posted in ages)

Imperium Armies: 11 (or 10, Not counting kroot)
Bob's Scions,
Chazz's Inquisition,
Drakka's wyrm guard,
My scions,
Vanguard's scottish guard,
WK's chem dogs,
Irish's Wolf Marines,
WK's knights
Kharne's Shark Marines
Kroot (sort of)
The ex-Dorn's last wish

Chaos/xenos armies: 9 (7 not counting the guys not actually here yet.)
My orks,
Smudge's Tau
BC's scary marines (not here yet)
TEoN's scary marines (not here yet)
Irish's plague cult
Kharne's Necron/Tau/Necro-Lizards
WK's Eldar
Chazz's orks
Ezra's chaos forces? (Too much craziness for me to know what's going on here )

So if my headcount is right (witch it certainly might not be) that means the imperium is, in fact, outnumbering the chaos and xenos combined. Also, something I still need to point out, the chaos and xenos forces aren't instant allies like the imperium is. Edar would never fight with chaos, for example. Hannibal and Warprida' aren't exactly friends, and actually had been fighting each other most of the crusade. Alliances are far more shaky with these guys than they are with the imperium, which seems to be rock solid.

So I guess all that to is say, chaos/xenos physically can't attack more places than the imperium forces can defend, because there are more active imperium forces than xenos forces. (And I think the main reason why you aren't seeing as many imperium posts as xenos posts is because some are still waiting for the gargant fight to be resolved)

I posted two weeks ago for my Chaos and I'm waiting for Jhe to post the Gargant event, excuse me for not putting my armies anywhere I please

**Irishpeacockz**

You mean Blackjack right ? I dont think Jhe is writing any part of the Gargant