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 FlingitNow wrote:
Skitarii can't scout fortifications and WS aren't Bs2 on snap shots and it seems entirely intended for them to be bs5 normally otherwise.

This seems more unintentional particularly with regards to ICs without DS. However they haven't explained it well enough to give clarity either way on that so I'd probably advise playing RaW in this situation for consistency if nothing else.

Skitarii Fortifications (in the detachment that's name escapes me) have the scout special rule, whether they can use it or not is a kettle of fish i've no intention on getting into. Not sure where snap shots comes from re: WaveSerpents? I was talking about the Aspect Host formation (I think that's the right name - correct me if wrong) that allows you to add +1 to either Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill to the units in the formation. I find it hard to believe that GW intended for Wave Serpents to be able to get a Weapon Skill benefit.

Personally when playing against people you don't know (especially at an event) I would just not buy Land Raiders for the formation. Typically my rule for these situations is: the more longwinded the rules justification is, the more likely it is to cause a disagreement at the table, and it's just not worth it. Opinions may (will) vary.

Sorry misunderstood what you meant on Wave Serpents, vehicles don't have a WS just a set value that attacks are resolved at. You can't use scout on the Skitarii stuff as Fortifications don't have a unit type.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Landraider discussion is as quick as "do you alliw drop pods to deepstrike?" I take it to pick up games against unknown opponents you don't use Drop Pods either as the issues are identical?

I think it's generally accepted that Drop Pods can deepstrike, in the same way that its generally accepted that Papa Smurf has powerfists despite them not actually being listed on his profile.

Taking the attitude "If you want your drop pods to be able to deepstrike then my landraiders can because the rule is similar" will make you sound like an obstinate rules lawyer to many people. It's a janky sounding rule and i think many people will (rightly) disagree with it, despite it being technically correct by RAW.

Again, not saying it's wrong by RAW, just that its the sort of thing that should probably be cleared with an opponent before putting it on the table, like so many things in 40k.

The rules aren't similar but are the same. Calgar doesn't have powerfists he has the Gauntlets of Ultramar as clearly shown on his datasheet.

Seems i was mistaken with Calgar - wonder where on earth i picked up that idea.

At the risk of starting up the argument afresh you haven't proved they can Deepstrike, what you've actually done is cast doubt on whether (by RAW) Drop Pods are able to Deepstrike. Obviously no-one is actually going to argue that you can't Deepstrike with Drop Pods and you're using that to essentially blackmail other players into letting you play your Land Raiders the way you want to. The point of my previous posts is it's bad form to just turn up and expect other players to bow to your view on this rule.

NickAtkins wrote:
Seems i was mistaken with Calgar - wonder where on earth i picked up that idea.

At the risk of starting up the argument afresh you haven't proved they can Deepstrike, what you've actually done is cast doubt on whether (by RAW) Drop Pods are able to Deepstrike. Obviously no-one is actually going to argue that you can't Deepstrike with Drop Pods and you're using that to essentially blackmail other players into letting you play your Land Raiders the way you want to. The point of my previous posts is it's bad form to just turn up and expect other players to bow to your view on this rule.

It's fine if you stay classy. People are used to weird rules by now.

NickAtkins wrote:
I think it's generally accepted that Drop Pods can deepstrike, in the same way that its generally accepted that Papa Smurf has powerfists despite them not actually being listed on his profile.

Taking the attitude "If you want your drop pods to be able to deepstrike then my landraiders can because the rule is similar" will make you sound like an obstinate rules lawyer to many people. It's a janky sounding rule and i think many people will (rightly) disagree with it, despite it being technically correct by RAW.

Again, not saying it's wrong by RAW, just that its the sort of thing that should probably be cleared with an opponent before putting it on the table, like so many things in 40k.

I agree.
Ofc I would never forbid my opponent to DS his pods even if we would not allow LRs to do so.
But it is undeniably raw to allow any deathwing unit to DS in said formation.

People also should keep in mind:
DSing Landraiders are still not that good, the more relevant units are Deathwing Characters without DS (Ezekiel, Azmodai and so forth).

Yeah Deepstriking Landraiders are still awful. Adding Ezekiel etc in is a greater buff though not extraordinary given how weak DW are in general. It is RaW that DW can DS and I see no reason to stop the dirty traitors from doing so.

Yeah, think of the footprints involved when comparing a LR to a DW unit. If it doesn't Mishap, it's dangerous, but if it does...

Even if it doesn't mishap the LR could have you there quicker and more reliably simply by driving...

FWIW, I emailed the Adepticon FAQ department and just got this reply:

Yes, the Land Raiders are allowed to enter play via deepstrike, they will scatter and potentially mishap as normal.

Regards,

Chris

so that helps anyone attending this event at least. See y'all in Chicago!

*Thumbs up*

axisofentropy wrote:
FWIW, I emailed the Adepticon FAQ department and just got this reply:

Yes, the Land Raiders are allowed to enter play via deepstrike, they will scatter and potentially mishap as normal.

Regards,

Chris

so that helps anyone attending this event at least. See y'all in Chicago!

Bookmarking this forum thanks alot everyone for hashing this out. Hopefully there is some clarity with the rules however, I will use this site as my source when making a deathwing build. Happy hunting.