Top 10 shooty units in 40k

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**GentGiant**

In your opinion, what are the top 10 shooty units in all of 40k 1 being the best 10 being the worst (of the best)

you can take into account "for the points" so for example mek guns being 30 points for kustom mega kannon and ammo runts to reroll the gets hot would be #1 for me right now

1
2
3
Etc

**Frozocrone**

1. Scatbikes
2. Centurion Devastators
3. Flyrant
4. Warp Spiders
5. Broadside
6. Riptide
7. Devastators
8. Mek Gunz
9. Fire Dragons
10. Warbikers

I'm probably not thinking of obvious examples but this is what I would argue.

**Neophyte2012**

Frozocrone wrote:
1. Scatbikes
2. Centurion Devastators
3. Flyrant
4. Warp Spiders
5. Broadside
6. Riptide
7. Devastators
8. Mek Gunz
9. Fire Dragons
10. Warbikers

I'm probably not thinking of obvious examples but this is what I would argue.

Mostly agreed, but maybe Wraith Guard instead of Fire Dragons?

**Kaela_Mensha_Khaine**

Frozocrone wrote:
1. Scatbikes
2. Centurion Devastators
3. Flyrant
4. Warp Spiders
5. Broadside
6. Riptide
7. Devastators
8. Mek Gunz
9. Fire Dragons
10. Warbikers

I'm probably not thinking of obvious examples but this is what I would argue.

From a outlook of what they do when they shoot, I would put Scatbikes (maybe), Flyrant and Warp Spiders lower on the list. The scatbikes have a lot of firepower while the spiders only have 2 shots a piece but both really shine in their mobility, Flyrants only have 12 shots but again between mobility and being a flyer it gets a boost in game. Also i would have thought that the normal fire warrior should be up there because you can't get much better than a 30 inch rapid fire strength 5 gun for the points.

And for some personal bias my number one shooting unit would be Dark Reapers because they have a greater range than scatbikes (but lose to guess what? mobility) are base cheaper than scattbikes but only have 2 str 5 shots compared to 4 str 6 shots, but those shots are at ap 3 with ignoring jink. Then you can give them missile shots for more points.

**Slayer-Fan123**

SOOOOOOO did we just witness somebody say that Scatterbikes should be lower on a list in terms of shootiness for the points?

**ZergSmasher**

I don't know every shooting unit in the game, but here are my picks for the top 10 that I know of:

10: Leman Russ Punisher with Knight Commander Pask: This guy puts out a silly number of shots, and usually will have Preferred Enemy to reroll those shots.

9: Ork Warbikers: Their guns are pretty strong, and they are very mobile. If they are Nobz instead of regular Boyz, they are quite durable.

8: Eldar Wraithguard: Strength D template weapons. 'nuff said. The range limitation is what keeps them from being higher on this list.

7: Necron Warriors: Their weapons can wound/glance anything in the game regardless of toughness/AV. This is huge, especially from basic troops.

6: Chaos Space Marine Heldrake: The infamous Hellturkey can roast Space Marines easily. Its weapon is short-ranged since it is a template, but torrent makes up for that. It is also very durable due to being a flyer, AV12, and having a 5+ save even without jinking.

5: Tau Broadside Battlesuits: These put out a crazy number of shots if they take HYMPs, and they are tough to kill, especially in good cover. If they have a Buffmander attached, they get even meaner.

4: Tyranid Flyrant: Large number of high-strength shots, and all the benefits of being a Flying Monstrous Creature.

3: Tau KV128 Stormsurge: This murder machine puts out an insane number of shots, and despite being only T6 is difficult to bring down mainly due to being a Gargantuan Creature. Deploy the anchors for twice the hilarity!

2: Space Marine Centurion Devastators with Gravcannons: They are deadliest when combined with psykers in the infamous CentStar, but even without it they put out a TON of firepower.

1: Eldar Scatterlaser Jetbikes: The most maneuverable unit in the game, with very strong guns. These and Wraithknights are the reason people hate on Eldar so much.

**Panzer1944**

It's not a shooty list without a Vulture with its Twin-Linked Punisher cannon.

**koooaei**

Including titans?

**Kaela_Mensha_Khaine**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SOOOOOOO did we just witness somebody say that Scatterbikes should be lower on a list in terms of shootiness for the points?

One I said maybe, two I stand by what I said. When looking at the shooting and nothing else the scatbikes are good but not as bad as what they really are on the battlefield. A War Walker pays 3pts more per scatterlaser than a squad of of bikes. So a squad of 4 is 12 points cheaper than 2 walkers but they put out the same number of shots. being immune to str 3 and less shooting, no moral tests, and having the 5++ over jinking with the same number of wounds/hull points but being prone to being blown up in one shot is worth the points imho. But the reason you never see people going on about flooding the board with walkers over bikes is because the bikes destroy with their mobility.

**vipoid**

Surprised the Wraithknight hasn't made any lists.

2 36" D-weapons, along with 2 Scatter Lasers or such, all of which can fire at a different target, on a platform that can move 12" each turn and is nigh-invulnerable beyond Grav or D-weapons. Also, unlike many other good shooty units, trying to tie it down in melee is usually a death-sentence for the units involved.

**next gen marines**

I personally think that kataphron destroyers should be on someones's list, they fire 6 grav shots each and are basically relentless so no salvo problems

**KhorneontheCobb**

I would never claim to know every unit or codex.... But one shooty unit that has performed extremely well for me is a Dark Angels Command Squad with 5 Grav guns and the Sacred Standard. The Sacred Standard grants you relentless and counter attack, so you're always firing this 5 grav guns as if you didn't move... In addition, Dark Angels have their overwatch shenanigans... In a CAD that unit shoots overwatch as BS2 (hitting on 5s and 6s) ... But in a Lion's Blade Detachment they shoot overwatch at full BS!!! Add in counter attack from the Sacred Standard and people don't want to charge that unit either... I typically make 1 guy an apothecary as well for a 5+ FNP survivablity upgrade.

So basically, in a Lions Blade Detachment- you've got 5 grav guns with relentless, counter attack, feel no pain and shooting overwatch at normal BS... That's a pretty shooty unit.

**Frozocrone**

vipoid wrote:
Surprised the Wraithknight hasn't made any lists.

2 36" D-weapons, along with 2 Scatter Lasers or such, all of which can fire at a different target, on a platform that can move 12" each turn and is nigh-invulnerable beyond Grav or D-weapons. Also, unlike many other good shooty units, trying to tie it down in melee is usually a death-sentence for the units involved.

But the Wraithknight is bad (Dman137, 2015).

Yeah, I missed a few obvious choices. I normally see CC Wraithknights, the 5++ really helps it at times.

Come to think of it, Black Knights over Fire Dragons. I'm going to have to revisit it at some point.

**carldooley**

a couple things.
the buffmander. while not a shooting unit per se, it can make its attached squad so much more deadly. even worse now with the Combined Firepower (either one) from the hunter contingent.

what was that gun on the ork stompas? the supa gatler? what was it, 6d6 shots that you could keep shooting with (admittedly at BS2) until it rolled all ones? not terribly effective, but I certainly feared going against it.

I agree with the stormsurge as well, with all possible readings of the rules.

I will also say anything in the tau books with access to target locks.

what else?
anyone remember weaken resolve? before the IG lost it, (and was a power used in the shooting phase,) great fun with it and the callidus ld flamer for lulz kills and psychic shriek.

**jy2**

I think this belongs in the 40K General Discussion forum, not in 40K Tactics.

**GentGiant**

Awesome responses guys. Great to see so many different factions represented!

**jy2**

Here is my list of the Top 10 Best Shooting unit in the game today:

Jy2's Top 10 Best Shooters

One term you will hear a lot from me is the cost per shot ratio (notated as pts/shot). Basically, what this means is how many points does it cost per shot for that unit. With this ratio, the lower it is, the better.

1. Scatterbikes. The most cost-efficient non-vehicle shooting unit in the game at 6.75 pts/shot and they pump out high quality BS4, S6 shots. It doesn’t hurt that the scatbike is also probably the fastest, ObSec troop unit in the game as well. If even one of these suckers survive, it can mean the difference between Victory or Defeat as it turbo-boosts onto an objective just before the game ends.

2. Devastator Centurions. One of the scariest shooters in the game. The centurion with Hurricane Bolters can pump out an incredible 7.27 pts/shot at Rapid-fire range, and they are threat to both infantry and tanks. Devastator Centurions are the main reason why Imperial armies have arguably the deadliest shooting deathstar build in the game.

3. Broadsides with High-Yield Missile Pods and Interceptor. One of the best shooters in the game on a highly durable platform, the Missile-side puts out an amazing 8.75 pts/shot. Moreover, they are highly accurate with Twin-linked shooting and with the help of Markerlights, can be even more accurate and deadly (with Ignores Cover). Also, Broadsides are one of 2 units in my Top 10 that can shoot you when you come in from Reserves. Their main drawbacks are the lack of any Invulnerable saves (against armies that can Ignore Cover), low Leadership that makes them vulnerable to LD-based attacks and the fact that they are not Relentless (unless you take a specific Tau formation).

4. Sicaran Battle Tank (Forgeworld). One of the best tanks in the Imperial arsenal, the Sicaran is also one of its best shooters as well. With Heavy Bolter sponsons, it puts out an impressive 10.33 pts/shot. But what makes it stand out even more is that 6 of those shots are Twin-linked, S6 Rending shots that ignore Jink saves. It’s also an incredibly resilient tank at AV F13/S12/R12 and can be made even harder to kill with some upgrades (Ignore meltas, 4+ save vs Haywire). It can be both anti-infantry (with Heavy Bolter sponsons) or anti-tank (with Lascannon sponsons and the Tank Hunter upgrade). Lastly, it is a fast vehicle so can move up to 6” and still fire all of its guns.

5. Flyrant with TL-Brainleech Devourers and Electroshock Grubs. While this guy isn’t the most incredible shooter (20 pts/shot makes him the least efficient shooter on my list), he is a reliable shooter with 12 Twin-linked BS4 S6 shots. Also, he is both a threat to infantry as well as other tanks (thanks to his Haywire template as well). But what makes the flyrant stand-out is all the little things he does. He is a huge force-multiplier for the Tyranid army with his Synapse and Psychic buffs. He can hit you no matter where you hide thanks to him being a Flying MC. He can hit both ground units and other flyers with equal accuracy. Finally, he is fairly durable due to being a FMC with the potential for FNP as well. While his shots are expensive, his accuracy and ability to hit both ground units and flyers helps to make his shooting actually more efficient than other units on this list with much lower costs/shot ratios.

6. Riptide. The riptide by itself is a respectable shooter. When it Novas up with its Heavy Burst Cannons, it can put out up to decent shooting at 11.25 pts/shot. And while not the most accurate shooter, its shooting becomes much more dangerous with the help of Markerlights. But what really sets this guy apart is twofold. First is its flexibility. You name it, the riptide can do it. Need Skyfire? Done. Need a large blast? You got it. Trouble with infantry? He can handle them. Tanks also. He can also shoot you when you come in from Reserves. Secondly is his durability. T6, 5W with a 2+ save and potentially 3++ Invulnerable with FNP? This guy is resilient as heck. Finally, he can shot you without needing to see you and is very mobile to boot.

7. Vulture (Forgeworld). An incredible shooter at 6.74 pts/shot on a fairly durable, AV12 flyer platform. Highly accurate as well with 20 Twin-linked shots as well as Strafing Run. Add Vector Dancer on top of that and this flyer becomes one of the more maneuverable flyers. You can’t really hide from it. It’s only drawbacks are that it is purely for anti-infantry and experienced players can take advantage of its flight path to avoid perhaps a turn of fire.

8. Warp Spiders. While these guys don’t put out a whole lot of shots, the shots that they do put out are quality shots. And at 9.5 pts/shot, they’re damn dangerous as well. With the potential for BS5 from formations and S6 shots that wound based on Initiative and Rending, these guys can hurt infantry, MC’s and light tanks as well. Their range may be short, but with a 2D6+6” Movement, Battle Focus and then a 2D6” Assault move, these guys can get into firing positions fairly easily and then get out of retalitorial strikes. And then there’s this annoying ability of theirs called Flickerjump….

9. Venom. Yes, the lowly Venom is actually a really good shooter. With 12 shots and at BS4, it is actually the most efficient shooting unit in the game at a blistering 5.42 pts/shot! Moreover, they come with a 5++ Invulnerable save, are pretty darn fast and can be ObSec as well. Their downsides? They are fragile and they can’t do anything to other tanks. But in terms of pure anti-infantry firepower, nothing beats the efficiency of the Venom.

10. Wyvern. This is the only blast-based unit in my Top 10. While one-dimensional, not much in the game beats the ability of the Wyvern to shred mass infantry and certainly nothing beats at its cost level. With the ability to Ignore Cover and re-roll wounds, the Wyvern is the best infantry horde-killer in the game currently for the price.

Honorable Mentions:

Black Knights – Resilient bastards with good assault capability and Twin-linked rapid-fire plasmas standard.

Crisis Suits – High firepower and good flexibility but somewhat expensive and fragile.

Fire Raptor – Very good shooting (11.84 pts/shot) on a very resilient flyer platform.

Kataphrons – The most efficient pure AP2 shooting in the game for their price.

Stormsurge – The best shooting Lord of War for under 400-pts.

War Walkers – 7.5 pts/shot for S6 BS4 shooting.

**GentGiant**

Wow thanks jy2!! Awesome list I never knew about points per shot.. Thanks! If anyone else has a list they feel is top 10 please share

**FratHammer**

1. Snazzguns
2. Deffguns
3. Combi-shootas
4. Twin-linked Shootas
5. Shootas
6. Sluggas
7. Kustom mega pistols
8. Grot slug throwers
9. Thrown guns
10. Non thrown guns

I really wanted ta add killkannons, dakkakannons and Kustom mega kannons, but then I realized those ain't guns.

The shootiest units are the units what use these guns.

**vipoid**

I'd strongly disagree about the venom being in the top 10 shooty units.

Yes, it gets a lot of shots for its points. The problem is that those shots are really ineffective against the vast majority of targets, and which also can't even scratch AV10.

Contrast this with the Venom's horrible survivability (AV10 all round, open-topped, 2 HPs), and you'll see why Venom Spam is long dead as any kind of force to be feared.

**jy2**

vipoid wrote:
I'd strongly disagree about the venom being in the top 10 shooty units.

Yes, it gets a lot of shots for its points. The problem is that those shots are really ineffective against the vast majority of targets, and which also can't even scratch AV10.

Contrast this with the Venom's horrible survivability (AV10 all round, open-topped, 2 HPs), and you'll see why Venom Spam is long dead as any kind of force to be feared.

Here is my reasoning for why the Venom belongs in my Top 10 list.

It's dirt cheap for what it does (55-pts for a gun boat) and it does it well due to BS4 (average of 8 hits). The purpose of the Venom isn't to hunt tanks (but if it could, I would probably rank it even higher than #9) - there are a lot of choices for AT in the army for that purpose - rather, it is to hunt down infantry. As a bonus, it fires poisoned shots so can even hurt MC's!

It can jink for 4+ cover but also has a 5++ Invuln against shots that ignore cover.

Most importantly, it is dirt cheap and easily spammable. Yeah it's fragile. Then again, so is the #1 choice on my list, the scatter bike. However, in contrast, you pay 405-pts for 60-shots for scatbikes. For the venom? Only 325-pts for the same number of shots. If you scale it up, 5 units of scatbikes (60-shots, 405-pts) can get you 6 venoms (72-shots, 390-pts) and change. And there you have your resiliency, which is in the volume of units. Yes, a lone venom by itself isn't very resilient. However, the price of its competitors can usually get you multiple venoms, thus giving your army resiliency through redundancy.

And then there are the intangibles, such as it is very fast, it's guns out-range a lot of other guns (which translates to more resiliency as it can stay out of range of many unit's shooting), it is a troops transport and the fact that it can be ObSec as well.

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GentGiant wrote:
Wow thanks jy2!! Awesome list I never knew about points per shot.. Thanks! If anyone else has a list they feel is top 10 please share

You're welcome.

There is no official points per shot stat. That is actually something I designed to gauge the approximate performance of various units in the game. However, it is by no means the definitive stat for shooty units. That is because it doesn't take into consideration BS, strength of the guns or Twin-linkage. Rather, it is more of an indicator just to estimate the effectiveness of shooty units.

**vipoid**

jy2 wrote:

Here is my reasoning for why the Venom belongs in my Top 10 list.

It's dirt cheap for what it does (55-pts for a gun boat) and it does it well due to BS4 (average of 8 hits).

It's actually 65pts, unless you're only taking one splinter cannon.

jy2 wrote:
there are a lot of choices for AT in the army for that purpose

No, there aren't. Anti-tank is a huge problem for DE, and the abundance of weapons that can't scratch vehicles, nor be swapped out for weapons that can, is a serious problem.

jy2 wrote:
rather, it is to hunt down infantry. As a bonus, it fires poisoned shots so can even hurt MC's!

But that's the point - it's not good at hunting infantry. Against marines, you have a vehicle with 12 long-range bolter shots. Any marine players here want to praise bolters?

Against IG, eldar and other T3 models, it's effectively firing AP5 lasgun shots.

If you're hunting infantry, you really don't want poison 4+.

I mean, these 12 shots you keep praising amount to 1.3 dead marines. Is that supposed to be good?

jy2 wrote:

It can jink for 4+ cover but also has a 5++ Invuln against shots that ignore cover.

Trust me when I say a 5++ really doesn't get you very far on a 2HP AV10 open-topped vehicle.

jy2 wrote:

Most importantly, it is dirt cheap and easily spammable. Yeah it's fragile. Then again, so is the #1 choice on my list, the scatter bike.

But, as a transport, you can't call it spammable and then ignore the cost of the rather less useful units you have to buy to get it.

Also, whilst scatter bikes are fragile, they can move 2d6" in the assault phase to get back to safety. You also don't need to take passengers with terrible survivability and crap weapons to access them.

jy2 wrote:
If you scale it up, 5 units of scatbikes (60-shots, 405-pts) can get you 6 venoms (72-shots, 390-pts) and change.

How are you taking 6 venoms without passengers? Or are you going unbound? In which case those Scatterbikes will be ObjSec, and your venoms won't be.

Moreover, have you actually done any math for this? I'm guessing not.

vs GEQ
Venoms: 24
Scatterbikes: 27.7

vs MEQ
Venoms: 8
Scatterbikes: 11.1

vs TEQ
Venoms: 4
Scatterbikes: 5.6

vs T5 MEQ
Venoms: 8
Scatterbikes: 8.9

vs T6 3+
Venoms: 8
Scatterbikes: 6.7

vs AV10
Venoms: 0hp
Scatterbikes: 20hp

vs AV11
Venoms: 0hp
Scatterbikes: 13.3hp

vs AV12
Venoms: 0hp
Scatterbikes: 6.7hp

You'll notice that, despite your claim about the venom being dedicated anti-infantry, the Scatterbikes outperform them against every type of infantry. Literally the only target venoms are better against is T6 MCs. In exchange, the venoms can do nothing against AV10, whilst the Scatterbikes can harm anything up to AV12. They can kill 2 Chimeras, 4 Rhinos or 5 Jinking Venoms each turn. As in, they can wipe out basically your entire venom fleet in one round. I guess numbers aren't actually much of a defence after all - not when you're so ridiculously fragile.

Moreover, this is using your own massively biased scenario - where the venoms are taken without passengers. If you include the cost of Warriors, then suddenly you're looking at 105pts per venom, with a negligible increase in firepower or survivability. Shall we run the above numbers again and see if the venoms are even close to scatterbikes against non-vehicles?

Venoms were good back in 5th. What you seem to have missed is that the game has moved on since then, but venoms haven't. And, their firepower just isn't enough to keep them competitive - let alone put them in the top 10. It certainly doesn't justify their atrocious survivability, and their inability to harm vehicles is crippling. Gargantuan Creatures are the final nail in their coffin. Poison was supposed to be DE's defence against big creatures (as they lack Grav, Plasma, D-weapons or any equivalent), and is the one target against which Venoms should really shine. Except they don't. Because GCs were given virtual immunity to poison. So, they've traded any ability to harm vehicles for... nothing whatsoever.

**Imateria**

^Real Space Raiders detachment gives you 6 fast attack slots so if you really want to you can take 6 of them without taking infantry first.

I've wiped marine players of varying flavour clean off the table plenty of times through massed poison shots and the Venom was definitely a large part of that. Not sure I'd say it was in the top 10 of the entire game but it's still a very good shooty unit.

**lessthanjeff**

Venoms also just got passed in efficiency by corsair cloud dancers. 25 points per splinter cannon, but on an even more mobile platform because it has the 12" move and gets to make an assault jump.

**vipoid**

Imateria wrote:
^Real Space Raiders detachment gives you 6 fast attack slots so if you really want to you can take 6 of them without taking infantry first.

That's true, but most of your anti-tank is in FA - so if you just use those slots to spam poison weapons you're going to have real problems against any opponents with a lot of armour

Imateria wrote:

I've wiped marine players of varying flavour clean off the table plenty of times through massed poison shots and the Venom was definitely a large part of that.

Our of interest, what does your list look like?

Imateria wrote:
Not sure I'd say it was in the top 10 of the entire game but it's still a very good shooty unit.

I think it's still a decent shooty unit - just not versatile or durable enough to be in the top 10.

lessthanjeff wrote:
Venoms also just got passed in efficiency by corsair cloud dancers. 25 points per splinter cannon, but on an even more mobile platform because it has the 12" move and gets to make an assault jump.

Good thing too - since Corsair Venoms are worse than DE ones.

**Huron black heart**

Just for the sake of adding something different, what about Obliterators? The ability to pick the required weapon and in a 2+5++ package surely isn't to be sniffed at, and if you charge them make sure you finish them off as they also have power fists

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Vipoid, you're not being fair. You're comparing a unit he put 9th to a unit he explicitly put 8 places above it, then pointing out one is better than the other. Scatterlasers are better then Venoms, but as a DE player you must agree that Venoms are quite reliable in the amount of wounds they put out. I only have 2 Venoms in my army, hiding my counter assault Incubi, but those 24 shots will yield 8 wounds like clockwork. Add objective secured, a 4+ jink save (I only jink against a weapon i suspect will kill him in a volly), 5+ invul and troop capacity you have a nice little unit. If Eldar could take a Venom, I'd bet you they would.

On the other hand shots per point ratio doesn't take into account the quality of the shot. But it's JY2's list so he can use the deciding factor how he likes.

**vipoid**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Vipoid, you're not being fair. You're comparing a unit he put 9th to a unit he explicitly put 8 places above it, then pointing out one is better than the other.

Eh?

He was the one who made the comparison with Scatterbikes - I just did the math and showed that it was far less favourable than he was saying.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Scatterlasers are better then Venoms, but as a DE player you must agree that Venoms are quite reliable in the amount of wounds they put out. I only have 2 Venoms in my army, hiding my counter assault Incubi, but those 24 shots will yield 8 wounds like clockwork.

That's true. The problem is that those 8 wounds don't amount to much actual damage. And I say this as someone who runs 5 venoms.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Add objective secured, a 4+ jink save (I only jink against a weapon i suspect will kill him in a volly), 5+ invul and troop capacity you have a nice little unit.

That's true. Again though, I wasn't saying venoms were bad units - just that they really don't belong in the top 10.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
If Eldar could take a Venom, I'd bet you they would.

I'm doubtful. Not when they have the best transport in the game.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
But it's JY2's list so he can use the deciding factor how he likes.

But if he's posting his list publicly, he should be prepared to explain/defend his decisions.

**Grizzyzz**

I don't really see your argument that DE have trouble with armor lists.... my friends typical DE list has about 20 lances/blasters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And this is across his transports and 2 units of blasters

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my list, written from my experiences. These are the units WITHOUT any form of psychic help/orders/buffs.

10. Soul Grinder / Russ - This was a tie for me, as they both are similar.. av13 is deceptively hard to take down, and battle cannons are usually ignored until they blow something off the table.
9. Fire Warriors - 9 pts for a 30" s5 rapid fire. Not bad at all. With buffs it gets even better but alone just good enough!
8. Land speeders dual bolters - 6 s5 36" .. one is ok.. two is oh.. and three is PLEASE NO! The ap4 and range helps these guys wipe infantry off the board, the range keeps them kiting and out of trouble.
7. Destroyers (? honestly forget the name... 6 grav shots each.. mechanicus) .. it is because of these guys that I have lost 3 riptides before my turn 1 against my friends NOVA list. OUCH!
6. Crisis suit - the specialization of this suit makes my list. It can fit any roll you need and does it well. (5.25 pts/s5 shot if your going with dual burst cannons, and that's cheaper then firewarriors)
5. Necron warriors - although limited to 24", they can wipe both troops and av targets alike, and are durable enough to get there.
4. Missle Broadside - Twin linked helps its lower BS3. combined with range and s7, ap4 wipes 50% of troops in game, and is effective at all but killing landraiders.
3. Dire avenger - I can't believe this guy didn't make others lists. battle focus combined with a pseudo rend gun, what a package deal.
2. Scatter bikes - I know.. not the top of my list. Maybe it is just me. but I have found lately they are never a real issue for me or my other group members. most everything gets a save and once they jink, meh.
1. Centurians - Grav or dakka. both amazing. T5 and relentless, what a combination. It is their defense as much as their offense that makes the top of my list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Definitely forgot about them... but Mechanicus vangaurd. These guys are really good and deserve at least an honorable mention!

**Zoner**

I thought this was about the top 10 shooty?

I think from a pure shooty perspective the Venom is perfectly fine as a 9th spot pick.

My question is, what would you suggest replace the Venom in the 9th pick rather than contrasting it to the scatbike? Perhaps the Wyvern? It just seems that this thread is getting off track into basically discussing army lists now instead of individual unit shooting.

Personally, I would like to volunteer the Heldrake to be on the top 10. With the main reason being that the Heldrake (while not as good as it used to be) is still the best option for Chaos (personal opinion). Kind of a weird comparison but it's like pro sports and the MVP vote. The Heldrake is the best player on a bad team.