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frozenwastes wrote:

 Talys wrote:

At the end of the day, of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on GW yearly, I suspect a good chunk of that is spent by people who have priorities more in alignment with GW's vision than not.

I'll go one further and say that if they can figure out where to open their stores and how to find and train the right people and figure out how to optimally price and sell their products, GW can actually return to growth using their current vision.

As it currently stands I'm not sure the product they are currently asking their store managers to sell works in all the places they are trying to sell it. And it's sad to see them blaming all their problems on these store level managers who have no say about anything. It's not their fault, it's GW's upper management that put them on this path of declining revenue & profits.

The issue of finding the right people to work at the stores and keeping them isn't made any easier by some of their policies. I've been personal friends with 2 of the 3 GW managers here over since this store opened. The first one left for a better job making significantly more money. His replacement was fired within 90 days for various reasons. The 3rd, my other friend, still works there. The first issue is the pay. The company has been on a salary freeze since the disastrous report of 2014 that tanked their share price. The pay varies by store but in this market it's $30-33k. Not minimum wage but not enough to support anyone but yourself, even in the most affordable large city in the US (Birmingham). The second issue is the sales targets. Every store has the same target number and managers get bonuses based on how they perform compared to this number. The reader's digest version is that a manager of a large store in a huge market can basically open the doors, lay his head on his desk, just wake up to ring people out and get a large bonus every year for exceeding his targets. For example, the stores in LA or Vegas where somebody like Robin Williams will walk in and drop $10-20k without batting an eye. Now the problem comes when you give those same sales targets to managers in the deep south where the concentration of wargamers is much lower, income is lower, etc. This manager could open the store early and stay late, run tons of events to establish a community, get local high schools to start 40k clubs, etc and still fall short of his sales targets. This manager will be fired in 90 days for not making the sales while the guy sleeping on his desk is rewarded with bonuses and raises. Recently I have seen them using last year's sales on that particular day as the goal but I haven't heard if that's what their bonus is based on now.

I think they would be much better off abandoning their one man stores and just opening the large stores in bigger markets. The problem is this would require them to basically restructure everything and also admit that the main thing they've been touting as their savior to skeptical shareholders is actually the single biggest roadblock to GW becoming more profitable. When the stores cost more to run than they make in profit, what purpose do they serve? How many years is GW going to lose money running 1 man stores before they change tactics? There are 5 FLGS within a 30 minute drive from me that are open 7 days a week, most of them open before GW and close after GW on the days GW is open. GW needs to allow 3rd party retailers to sell more of their products and give them more incentive to stock their products. However, they've waited so long that even if they did change tactics, it might be too little, too late. I doubt that GW can compete with the other games that have really picked up steam lately. Two stores locally have about the same amount of shelf space for GW and PP. However, any time you go in, you will see WMH, X wing and hero clix being played but no 40k. As much as GW publicly ignores any and all possible competitors, behind closed doors somebody in upper management has to be aware of the market share they're losing.

TLDR : There isn't a simple solution for GW to turn this around right now. Saying "We just need to find and retain the right people for our one man stores to work" is much easier than the actual process of finding said people. It also shows me that GW is woefully inept at fixing the core issues with their products. You could have the best salesmen in the world, if the vast majority of your customer base doesn't want the product, the stores are still going to fail. The release of AoS really opened my eyes to how clueless GW is about the desires of the customers that are thinking about leaving, have already left or have slowed their purchasing.

 Vermis wrote:

jonolikespie wrote:
Mantic does seem to be on the up and up, though as a private company we can not confirm.

They give away free rules for GW minis and keep sticking up kickstarters, anyway. Rumours flit around that they're stuck in that way of doing things and just one or two bad KSs could nobble them. I don't think it's a matter of doing 'worse' than GW, by direct comparison of sales or revenue or whatever (Neither it nor any other wargaming company can come close, anyway) but of perhaps doing things in their own, special, unsustainable way.

But, like GW, it's uncertain if that alleged unsustainability will bite them in the behind anytime soon. They seem to have their own version of a captive audience.



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 TheAuldGrump wrote:

The Auld Grump - and I love Kings of War...

I know you do. And I don't include folk who try KoW and prefer it to WFB/AoS, in 'a captive audience'. I just debate that the immediate gamer advantage of free rules, lacklustre miniature design*, and throwing money at concept art and unwritten rules, is helping Mantic grow as quickly as it might, or helping it in the long term. To bring it somewhat back on topic, whatever GW is doing wrong, I don't know if it'd help to switch to whatever Mantic is doing.

*There's 'subjective', and then there's 'just not trying'.

Considering that there are Mantic miniatures lines that I like better than their GW counterparts... it is subjective. There are also plenty that I like 'well enough' - where the price difference tilts the playing field in favor of Mantic.

Undead - skeletons that look like they would at least fit inside of a human body, and some freaking awesome looking ghouls and zombies. Add one of the best liche figures in metal, and call me happy.

Ogres - I like the old GW Ogres more than the Mantic Ogres - and like the Mantic Ogres a lot more than the current GW Ogres.

Dwarfs - I like the infantry about the same between Mantic and GW - but like the Mantic war machines more. (Just me, or are the Mantic dwarfs pushing 19th Century cannon?) The price difference tips the scales in Mantic's favor. Then add in character models from other companies. And I really like the Brock riders.

I am really not liking the new line of GW Dwarfs - tilting the scales all the way.

Orcs - again, I like the Mantic figures about the same as the GW ones. Price makes the difference.

Humans... here GW wins, or at least comes in second to a company that is not Mantic. (The Perry Miniatures are better than either.) And the Basilean Men at Arms are just. Plain. Awful.

Abyssals/ Chaos Daemons... Both, please. I have no problem with fielding a mix of both.

Elves... are a special case - I prefer GW figures as Elves, but like the Mantic Elves as The Shining Host.

Dragons - GW... but I will take Reaper Bones over either.

Trolls... I like trolls, and will happily use models from all over the place. The more the merrier.

Goblins... I actually prefer a mix - and like the mix more than any single company on its own. (Including Reaper Bones Pathfinder Goblins.)

So, yeah - I am going to say 'subjective'. You don't like Mantic figures, and you are allowed not to like them.

But enough of them are good for me to roll my eyes when somebody tries to insist that Mantic does not make good miniatures.

They can, they do, but not all the time.

Likewise GW can, and do, but not all the time.

And price does make a difference.

The Auld Grump

Our area doesn't have a one-man GW store, and I don't really visit official GW stores out of town unless it's a really big one in an major city, so I'm just curious -- is a 1-man store exactly one employee, period, or is it 1 employee at a time, or is it 1 employee most of the time?

As to Mantic, I'm glad they exist. Choice and competition are good. I don't know if they'll break out of being a relatively small company into one with deeper pockets and bigger profits, and with games with deeper portfolios -- or if they want any of this.

Ignoring how great things were in 1990, I'm not sure if the path to big money today is big games with expensive models, small games with expensive models, big games with cheap models, or small games with cheap models. I also don't know for a fact whether the mostly-gamer or mostly-collector niche generates more money both for manufacturers and local stores.

I think there us a compelling argument for every one of those categories, and that some (though not all) are mutually exclusive within a collection of models.


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 notprop wrote:
I thought futuristic Bolt Action was called Gates of Antares?

I'm unfamiliar with the rules, and I have never seen the models in a store or in person -- my only exposure, really, is the News section on Dakka, but it has always seemed to me that Antares models aren't really any cheaper than GW models of a similar size, broadly speaking. Plus, almost all the models are infantry sized, with only a tiny number that are Dreadnought-sized or larger. Not like I'm any expert on it, but it felt like Bolt Action seems to have a lot more vehicles in the catalog. I'll freely admit that I could be wrong.

I suppose that if you really want to play future infantry with a smattering of future cavalry and slightly bigger robots, Antares might be your game. Without more a lot more vehicles, though, I don't think Antares would be able to steal a whole lot of 40k players away.

As much as I like to reminisce about Rogue Trader and RTB-01, and although I might occasionally play a game that looks/feels like a retro 40k game, I wouldn't want to invest (time) in whole new armies that were restricted to the types of units we had 25 years ago in 40k.

As far as I can tell, the shops I visit in the UK are mostly one man and have only one man. That's why they are closed a lot of the time.

My view is that GW grew into a big money operation by publishing and selling a wide variety of games at relatively non-excessive prices, and it's since they stopped doing this that things have begun to go wrong.

In terms of profits, they have done well out of efficiency savings but they have been coasting on momentum and heritage that is bleeding awa, so sales have declined badly..

 Talys wrote:

Your assertion was that GW doesn't do anything for, well, really, anyone, so I simply expressed the groups that GW caters to. Now, you may think that the group that GW caters to is tiny, but you have no proof of this. People spending disproportionate time painting, modelling, and collecting, while only occasionally playing wargames (or not playing at all) may seem like a tiny group, but how do you measure how big that group is? They're might not be the ones gaming in local clubs, or they might even order online. If their primary interest doesn't require other humans, or at least with strangers, the chances of socializing with them is going to be less. Of the 6 people in our gaming group, I'm the only one who's social at FLGS at all; the rest just either internet order or walk in, buy their stuff, and leave, so even if they were customers at the same store you shopped at, you'd never know about these guys that each spend thousands of dollars on gaming every year.

At the end of the day, of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on GW yearly, I suspect a good chunk of that is spent by people who have priorities more in alignment with GW's vision than not. There are lots of real people with armies like this:

I did not assert this, what I said is it was pointless for PP while they have a good game that sells them a lot to do what GW does and shoot themselves at the foot.

Somehow you taken all the times I said this that I was talking for GW and not PP, I really do not know how or why.

And yes I think the core group who plays 40k as GW envisions it and likes it is tiny, big spenders but tiny, most are into it because they are either invested to much to go or because they stick to the biggest mass of players.

In any case in all my replies what I said is it would be foolish for PP to go after the GW mass battles crowd, it will alienate their current customers, it is not that big to make the company sustainable after alienating their customers and it is too much entrenched into 40k fluff and GW to leave anyway, so they are better doing what they do now and explore new IP to grow.

 Talys wrote:
I wouldn't want to invest (time) in whole new armies that were restricted to the types of units we had 25 years ago in 40k.

Conversely I will only invest any time and effort into a game which had nothing but those very same unit types, in 28mm at least.

There is a fair bit of 30/40k being played at my club at the moment and I find all those huge models blocking up the board to look utterly ridiculous.

Kilkrazy wrote:As far as I can tell, the shops I visit in the UK are mostly one man and have only one man. That's why they are closed a lot of the time.

Okay, well, that is just crazy. Sometimes people get sick, need a break, get into a car accident, have a leak in the kitchen...

PsychoticStorm wrote:Somehow you taken all the times I said this that I was talking for GW and not PP, I really do not know how or why.

Sorry My bad, then. I'm just misread.

Silent Puffin? wrote:Conversely I will only invest any time and effort into a game which had nothing but those very same unit types, in 28mm at least.

There is a fair bit of 30/40k being played at my club at the moment and I find all those huge models blocking up the board to look utterly ridiculous.

Yep, and I think there is a market for the games with less of the huge models, or even less models period, but more than the WMH-sized games. Hence, Antares might be a good fit (I really have no idea, since I haven't read the rules and I've never seen anyone play it), despite the models not really being much cheaper than GW's. Maybe Warpath will be something for you too, but it's really impossible to say about a game that doesn't yet exist

With 40k, obviously, it's possible to play without any (or many) huge models, and without the cheap tricks that probably would annoy you (like invisible deathstars or unkillable buffed land raiders). The problem is always in the matchmaking process -- finding a game with someone who wants to play Retro 40k with you and who has brought the appropriate models, because people just assume that the game they'll find is one that is like the ones you describe that you can't stand. We play quite a lot of games where the scenarios don't have many of the huge models, or even a lot of crappy, generally useless models, but it has to be agreed on beforehand if for no other reason than people have to bring the appropriate models.

 Toofast wrote:

The issue of finding the right people to work at the stores and keeping them isn't made any easier by some of their policies. I've been personal friends with 2 of the 3 GW managers here over since this store opened. The first one left for a better job making significantly more money. His replacement was fired within 90 days for various reasons. The 3rd, my other friend, still works there. The first issue is the pay. The company has been on a salary freeze since the disastrous report of 2014 that tanked their share price. The pay varies by store but in this market it's $30-33k. Not minimum wage but not enough to support anyone but yourself, even in the most affordable large city in the US (Birmingham).

Here, the people who work in a cell phone kiosk in the mall only have to be moderately successful to make enough sales for their commissions to outstrip what a GW manager earns. A friend of mine who runs a bunch of them told me his average employee makes $40,000 a year. Apparently commission sales people in high end clothing stores can earn even more than that. And that's not even considering the amount of money that is in business to business sales, real estate, car sales and so on. If someone is looking to make sales their career, GW is probably the worst employer to possibly choose.

I think they would be much better off abandoning their one man stores and just opening the large stores in bigger markets. The problem is this would require them to basically restructure everything and also admit that the main thing they've been touting as their savior to skeptical shareholders is actually the single biggest roadblock to GW becoming more profitable.

Yep. And if you look at the revenue declines that map with their rate of shifting stores to single employee operations you'll see that rather than save them, it's contributed massively to the problem. They gave up so much revenue per location by cutting their open hours back so much. And it looks like they honestly believe the answer is "more of the same."

TLDR : There isn't a simple solution for GW to turn this around right now. Saying "We just need to find and retain the right people for our one man stores to work" is much easier than the actual process of finding said people. It also shows me that GW is woefully inept at fixing the core issues with their products. You could have the best salesmen in the world, if the vast majority of your customer base doesn't want the product, the stores are still going to fail. The release of AoS really opened my eyes to how clueless GW is about the desires of the customers that are thinking about leaving, have already left or have slowed their purchasing.

Well said.

The real interesting thing will be what sort of 40k launch happens this year. Given the two years between the last edition change, could we see a 40k relaunch in 2016? And what will it do to sales if it is an AoSification of 40k? If Age of the Emperor comes out and 40k is done?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You can have a decent tactical game of X-Wing with two starter sets. It includes all the rules and components, and there is no assembly and painting needed. It sets up and plays quickly and needs no terrain. The add-on sets are what I call "pocket money price", which means even a schoolboy can add one or two more fighters to his fleet every month.

When you look at the price levels, a lapsed 40K player like me can think of buying the rules and two codexes for my armies, which will cost £110 and I still won't have the expensive models necessary to compete, or I can spend that money on a decent set up for X Wing. Which is exactly what I have done.

OTOH if you are a newb at wargames, you can look at the prices and think you won't even bother with buying the starter for 40K because you can get two starters and a couple of expansions for X-Wing for the same money.

Even disregarding X-Wing, pretty much any other game on the market right now has a better entry price. Dark Vengeance is $165au. While there's a decent amount of models in there, and they are very nice, they're not even close to giving you what you need to properly, or even legally, field a Dark Angels and a Chaos Marine list. On top of that you'll need a pair of codexes ($150au), another Tactical Squad ($65au) and a Chaos Marine squad ($62au). Those aren't remotely balanced armies, but they're legal and you have your codexes. $422au entry cost. That's not counting hobby supplies for a new player.

Any other game on the market right now with a 2 player starter gives me two reasonably balanced forces that play well out of the box, with cheap paths to expanding to standard sized games, for less than half that. Some of them I can expand both sides to standard level and beyond and not reach that entry price. X Wing edges them all out by being pre painted and pre built, but there's so many options.

And that doesn't even include big box miniature heavy board games. Zombicide and Imperial Assault have to be eating into the younger demographics as well.

I can attest to that. Two of the guys at my club each own ALL of the Imperial Assault and original Zombicide sets plus the expansions. One of them also has the Zombicide Black Plague set (shipped early as a Xmas present for kick starter backers) and he's awaiting the expansions too.

Other popular games include x wing, every variety of munchkin , magic the gathering plus the MTG board games, and a who!e range of other board games.

I'm the only dedicated wargamer here. Buts that OK, Im running dungeons and dragons with my wargaming figures (lotr and hasslefree).

There is a conspicuous absence of Games workshop. But almost everybody has old GW collections gathering dust.

frozenwastes wrote:


Here, the people who work in a cell phone kiosk in the mall only have to be moderately successful to make enough sales for their commissions to outstrip what a GW manager earns. A friend of mine who runs a bunch of them told me his average employee makes $40,000 a year. Apparently commission sales people in high end clothing stores can earn even more than that. And that's not even considering the amount of money that is in business to business sales, real estate, car sales and so on. If someone is looking to make sales their career, GW is probably the worst employer to possibly choose.

Cell phone kiosks, however, can be ridiculously profitable. A fellow I know sold a chain of 14 of them and made a huge profit. Cell phones cost a lot, there are many high-markup accessories, and importantly, everyone has one these days.

In my opinion, the only reason to work in a gaming store of any kind -- GW or otherwise -- is because you love hobby. Unless you're the owner of a successful store, you're not going to get rich on it, and even if you're the owner of a successful store, you probably could have opened something else and made more money.

Compare what someone will pay to paint an army of wargaming miniatures, compared to say, a commission on a motorcycle helmet or hockey goaler's helmet, or side of a car or painting... The time vs. profit for the vast majority is not great.

 Talys wrote:
In my opinion, the only reason to work in a gaming store of any kind -- GW or otherwise -- is because you love hobby.

And GW used to build their employee base on exactly that basis. It used to be that the guy at the local shop was a dedicated fan who was there because he loved everything about Warhammer or 40k or whatever. Now they have recruitment companies trying to find anyone who they can get to enact their sales plan.

GW itself identifies their greatest threat as a lack of good store managers. They aren't willing to pay what professional sales people expect and they have this ridiculous idea that their product is beyond reproach and that any failure must be a problem with the store manager.

They are relying on opening more and more of these single employee locations in order to grow their business but they're doing everything they can to stunt their success in the name of control.

frozenwastes wrote:

 Talys wrote:
In my opinion, the only reason to work in a gaming store of any kind -- GW or otherwise -- is because you love hobby.

And GW used to build their employee base on exactly that basis. It used to be that the guy at the local shop was a dedicated fan who was there because he loved everything about Warhammer or 40k or whatever. Now they have recruitment companies trying to find anyone who they can get to enact their sales plan.

GW itself identifies their greatest threat as a lack of good store managers. They aren't willing to pay what professional sales people expect and they have this ridiculous idea that their product is beyond reproach and that any failure must be a problem with the store manager.

They are relying on opening more and more of these single employee locations in order to grow their business but they're doing everything they can to stunt their success in the name of control.

I recall once upon a time (not even 5 years ago actually) it used to be expected that to be hired as a GW employee you would have at least one army for 40k, WHFB and LotR, so that you knew all three games and could demo/explain in further detail all three.

Now I've heard of people being brought in with no hobby experience whatsoever and learning that as they go so long as they have the right 'attitude' and can sell.

Funny thing is, the shop managers I speak to are all okay guys, except for their GW fanatacism, which is mandatory for various reasons, so you can't blame them.

The fanatacism is why they work for GW. As noted above by several people, GW shop staffing is a pretty poor gig unless you really like Teh HHHobby.

These guys are actually good at their job. They can sell the game if people have any inclination to buy it.

I don't think it helps them that lots of stuff is available only through the web site, though if you order on the computer at the shop, perhaps the manager there will get the credit for the sale.

Prices of course must hurt.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I recall once upon a time (not even 5 years ago actually) it used to be expected that to be hired as a GW employee you would have at least one army for 40k, WHFB and LotR, so that you knew all three games and could demo/explain in further detail all three.

I know a guy who once had to buy a Warhammer army because of a mandatory staff tournament. He had never played Fantasy up until that point.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect GW employees to be able to play and demo the games, there are only three of them anyway, but only to hire people who already know highlights the conformity culture of the company. It's also a good saving on training, of course.

Working in a GW store is by far the easiest way to kill off hobby motivation.
It used to be that all staffers were super-gamers (lured in by the 50% discount, I imagine), but most of the newer ones I've encountered or heard of have no hobby experience at all, or a vague one from long ago. My local GW re-opened after maybe a 10 year absence, and they had to borrow display mini's from another store for the window.

I'm assuming they get training, but I don't know how they can introduce people to the hobby or help them with it without spending a lot of time trying to figure out the labyrinthine systems.

 Talys wrote:

Okay, well, that is just crazy. Sometimes people get sick, need a break, get into a car accident, have a leak in the kitchen...

Worse; they have to close the store (kicking out any customers) to have lunch, or visit the bathroom. Stores are closed 2 days a week and don't have long opening hours. Stores are regularly closed over holidays.

Why they don't even have casual guys for cover I don't understand. Like, would it kill them to hire someone to come in for an hour or 2 every lunch time, or for the 2 days off / evenings? Or even have a backup guy on standby for when the regular guy is off. It'd be ideal for students (and pensioners).

Herzlos wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Okay, well, that is just crazy. Sometimes people get sick, need a break, get into a car accident, have a leak in the kitchen...

Worse; they have to close the store (kicking out any customers) to have lunch, or visit the bathroom. Stores are closed 2 days a week and don't have long opening hours. Stores are regularly closed over holidays.

The evening opening hours really gets me. Between the two FLGSs in my local area Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday are all up for late night gaming, plus Friday night magic.

That's 2 gaming nights a week at each store plus Magic night.

The local GW is only open late one night a week, and it's only till 9pm, where the others close at 10 at the earliest, maybe as late as 3am.

My FLGS is open late I think 6 nights (mostly board game / rpg nights); my local GW closes at 6pm. Both open quite late in the morning though.

When I worked at GW we all had WFB and 40K armies, but we drew straws to see who had to have a painted LOTR army. (there were about 5 staff at the time.)

Currently one of the one-man stores in my area isn't open Sundays. I can't make it there after work, as they aren't open late and only being open 1 weekend day, I would think, is suicide.
(not that I go there anymore, anyways)

I thought Sunday was traditionally beginners day and therefore the busiest?

I would suggest that the issue is slightly complicated given certain properties might limit opening times of tenants to varying degrees.

I also seem to remember that opening days times were currently left to the discretion of the Managers (though I would imagine Saturdays would be mandatory).

Only being open 1 day per weekend and or limited late night openings suggest a realistic worklife balance policy to me given that significant others might not be seen.

Looking a the feedback fro various former managers here the feedback on GW employment doesn't generally seem to be negative so I don't think they are all that bad as an employer. Certainly most of the chaps work there that I have met seemed quite happy.

The shops I visit are usually closed on Monday and sometimes Tuesday, and open on Sundays. The normal working hours are 12 to 8 or 9, but Sunday opening in the UK is complicated by trading laws. The shops are often closed some time during the afternoon for lunch, and in some cases they don't open prompt at 12.

Where I'm at the GW store employs two people, but they can never work at the same time no matter what.

They are both very passionate about there jobs, but the one-man model has to hurt them. The shop is mostly ran by one guy, the other guy covers for him when he can't make it or has to go in for training.

The shop is open noon to seven, Wednesday through Sunday. During the holidays they were open every day, but still noon to seven, and even during heavy traffic days they could not both be on the clock at the same time.

This means that on Black Friday they didn't open until noon and as usual the manager has to take a half hour break, so everyone out of the pool.

Add to that there's no bathroom on sight and parking costs money in that area, and you have a recipe for a difficult place to game.

What pains me is even though the Main shopkeep is relatively new to Warhammer (3 years now,) he is a fantastic salesman, runs his shop well, and constantly puts in the extra mile. He doesn't close instantly if a game is going on, he shuffles around his lunch to accommodate any games or sales going on, and is just a excellent retail worker. He's done "midnight release" sales, and opened early for events. I'm scared to ask him if that's all on his own dime.

I don't think all-in-all the one man stores work. They are just hamstrung by the corporate rules, even in the best of circumstances.

Even using the labor laws of my state, you can work eight hours (not counting your off the clock break) without hitting overtime. They could easily add a second worker part-time who works only four hours a day, overlapping the lunch break and closing or opening the store. That's literally only twenty more hours a week, and with so many universities that wouldn't be a hard spot to fill.

Hell, if working a second guy 20 hours a week is too much, then just open the other two days a week, that's only 14 hours.

Or, and this might just be crazy, but hire two more people. you double your man hours, making it so the store is open from noon to eight thirty every day of the week like any other retail shop in the state!

Oh, and give the workers a real discount and a bathroom, jeesh.

The one man store model is awful for the workers.

And it's probably going to fail for GW in the long run, too.

I walk past the GW in Nuremberg every week or two on the way to my favourite Thai restaurant. I never go in, though it looks like a friendly place - I think I even saw people playing Dark Heresy in there once! The FLGS nearby has a better selection of GW models and also stocks about 20+ other suppliers.

 pox wrote:
Where I'm at the GW store employs two people, but they can never work at the same time no matter what.

This makes much more sense to me. Most countries have labour laws that prohibit 60-80 hour work weeks

Living in a relatively large urban area, I've been fortunate to never have been too far from a store with wargaming stuff. There's one store that's open to 1am five days out of the week, and 10pm and 12 am the other 2 days; and another store that will just give regulars the keys and ask them to lock up. However, if I lived in an area with more marginal service, I think I would prefer a small GW shop open 10am - 6pm, 6 days a week, over nothing at all.

Sometimes, if I'm just grabbing a paint or two or grabbing the latest White Dwarf, I don't really care about a discount, there's still inventory for popular stuff in a pinch, and it's still a place to game and socialize, and all that. Whether they can make any money at it... I suppose, not really my problem


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 Da Boss wrote:
The one man store model is awful for the workers.

When I first started my own business -- seems a lifetime ago -- I was a one-man store for a while. If it's something you really like doing, it's not really that much of an issue.

Looking at retail, walk into a shopping center or strip mall, and you'll see *tons* of stores with one employee, often the owner-operator or relative. It's just the nature of retail; not every business is profitable enough or busy enough to justify 2 employees, even at minimum wage.


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frozenwastes wrote:

 Talys wrote:
In my opinion, the only reason to work in a gaming store of any kind -- GW or otherwise -- is because you love hobby.

And GW used to build their employee base on exactly that basis. It used to be that the guy at the local shop was a dedicated fan who was there because he loved everything about Warhammer or 40k or whatever. Now they have recruitment companies trying to find anyone who they can get to enact their sales plan.

GW itself identifies their greatest threat as a lack of good store managers. They aren't willing to pay what professional sales people expect and they have this ridiculous idea that their product is beyond reproach and that any failure must be a problem with the store manager.

They are relying on opening more and more of these single employee locations in order to grow their business but they're doing everything they can to stunt their success in the name of control.

I think part of the problem is also cost of living -- in parts of the world where GW tends to succeed, the cost of living relative to both the minimum wage and average wage has been a tough grind. It used to be that someone making a slightly-above minimum wage salary, like a retail assistant manager, could actually live. Now, in many parts of the world, that's considered below the poverty level.

It's hard to attract or keep someone that will treat a store like an owner operator, when all you are willing or able to pay them is $30k - $40k (Canadian, call it $22k-$30k USD), because that same person has so many other opportunities in other fields. I'm sure it's different in every city/country, but housing in most of Canada is really expensive for people in those wage brackets. Two decades ago, this just wasn't the case; the cost of living relative to that type of salary just got you a lot further in life.

 Talys wrote:
Looking at retail, walk into a shopping center or strip mall, and you'll see *tons* of stores with one employee, often the owner-operator or relative. It's just the nature of retail; not every business is profitable enough or busy enough to justify 2 employees, even at minimum wage.

Most retail stores don't double as community hubs and gaming clubs.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Looking at retail, walk into a shopping center or strip mall, and you'll see *tons* of stores with one employee, often the owner-operator or relative. It's just the nature of retail; not every business is profitable enough or busy enough to justify 2 employees, even at minimum wage.

Most retail stores don't double as community hubs and gaming clubs.

This. The person operating the till in Primark doesn't have to also try to give fashion advice to customers and help them put on the clothes.

In regard to the bit about hiring people who are passionate about the hobby, I have an interesting anecdote. I spoke to a former GW manager regarding the possibility of getting a job there when he left. He gave me some advice about what to write in my interest letter and how to approach interview questions. He told me to downplay my experience with the hobby and just tell them I love sales. According to him, they have gone away from hiring long time GW fans because of the wide array of negative opinions of the company and games they have most likely been exposed to. GW is afraid someone might get the job that knows about their "spots the space marine" fiasco or the chapterhouse case. The last thing they want is a red shirt accidentally saying something negative about GW. If they hire someone who doesn't know anything about the company or the hobby, they don't have to worry about that.

I applied for the job, wrote a fantastic letter, nailed both interviews (IMO) and was passed over for a middle aged fellow that had never built or painted a model, played a game or read a black library book, and whose most recent jobs included an electronics store and a used car dealership. Myself and the other long time veteran that were passed over for the GW job both acquired upper management jobs for multi million dollar companies within 1 year of being turned down to run a one man GW store. The first manager that left and coached us through the process has a high level IT job now.

Perhaps this is why they're having trouble finding and keeping the right people, they prefer used car salesmen over 15+ year veterans with 10+ years of retail management/sales experience because they've received so much negative publicity over the last 10 years.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Looking at retail, walk into a shopping center or strip mall, and you'll see *tons* of stores with one employee, often the owner-operator or relative. It's just the nature of retail; not every business is profitable enough or busy enough to justify 2 employees, even at minimum wage.

Most retail stores don't double as community hubs and gaming clubs.

I would actually say most stores have 2+ staff around busy times, at least around these parts. Maybe during low periods they might drop to 1, but usually 2+. Most stores don't want one customer waiting for 10 minutes while the only staff person helps someone else or don't want to put up a "be back in X minutes" sign during lunch, toilet breaks, etc. Also just simple things like 1 person being able to run the register while another helps customers.

Even the local hobby shop (not gaming) which is a very small operation, the owner gets his wife in to help out answering the phones and running the register and whatnot. The slightly larger hobby shop down the road has 2 employees around peak times, the much larger one a bit further down the road has never had less than 3 staff when I've been in there, usually 4+.

Beyond hobby stores, I've never counted, but I'd say the majority of stores at the local shopping centre would have more than 1 staff working during peak times.