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Made in fi
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 Frozocrone wrote:
Sounds like a Dman alias


That's what I was thinking. Not completely sure if this is the case though because this guy seems to have an idea about grammar and sentence structuring. Compared to Dboy there are barely any spelling errors and every other word in these posts is not "lol". But who knows, maybe Dboy puts some unexpected effort into his different trolling personalities?

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 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.
 xSoulgrinderx wrote:
No. but jink is cover and if the barrage its center they wont be getting cover
 
   
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 Melissia wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
There have been many threads about Drop Pods, and ATSKNF has been widely criticized, while Grav spam is bemoaned nearly as much as Eldar.

Either you haven't been looking around, or you're actively ignoring it
They probably forgot amongst all the untalented Marine players complaining about how everything in their codex is underpowered.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a marine player who feels that drop pods, grav cents, special characters, bikes, and sternguard are underpowered. Chapter tactics are also quite strong and very fluffy.
Not to mention many of their amazing formations.

Most marine players are upset because;
1) They play BA, and are now a terrible army
2) They play Wolves, and have become an absurd army that relies on actual wolves instead of the older lists
3) They want to play a traditional or fluffy marine force, which is pretty bad...and has been for a long while
4) Why are terminators still awful outside of DA? And even then, they aren't good, just not terrible.

But everything being underpowered? That's not really a thing.

 Melissia wrote:

And yet, Sisters get a single thread maybe every two weeks or so and people complain about it... marine-centric bags of soggy squigs.

Sisters would get more complaints if they were a popular army. They have been a very difficult army to collect since their inception, probably the most difficult, so naturally you'll see less people talking about them since less people play them. People mainly complain about how they wish sisters were a bit easier to assemble and collect so they could buy a force, rather than the strength of the army since for many that is unknown. Sisters aren't terrible, they just are like nids in that many options are bad, but the ones that are good are very good (not eldar tau necron sm good, but about mid tier or upper mid tier good). Sisters are certainly stronger than Chaos is currently.

You see less complaints about DE than you do about Chaos for similar reasons.
   
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4) Why are terminators still awful outside of DA? And even then, they aren't good, just not terrible.
'
Aren't GK terminators ok?
   
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Makumba wrote:
4) Why are terminators still awful outside of DA? And even then, they aren't good, just not terrible.
'
Aren't GK terminators ok?


Ok is probably the best word for them. Terminators aren't really considered competitive and haven't been for a long time (with a brief exception in 5th for GK).
Chaos, SM, BA, SW, DA, and GK all have mediocre terminators despite termies being the best of the best. You are better off taking cents, veterans, bikes, or MCs depending on which marine force you are playing. Termies are always a subpar choice.
   
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My last game as guard I was issuing two orders each turn (only failing on boxcars) to two units of artillery for ignores cover, and using a second ccs to order my advancing infantry blob (ld10 with attached characters plus reroll for vox) to either move move move or get back in the fight after I sent them to ground for a free buffed cover save.

I have almost always wished I had access to more orders for my ccs squads, and I've loved the option to now get unlimited ccses with buffs as battlegroup detachments. Now I can send one 3-melta vet squad alongside a ccs with melta instead of a second vet, and when they disembark I can order them to ignore cover.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
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USA

Akiasura wrote:
Sisters would get more complaints


That statement wasn't about Sisters players complaining. It was people saying Sisters players complain too much, even though Marine players do almost nothing BUT complain, and we don't actually have many threads where Sisters players complain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 15:55:16


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
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Marines are kept in business by a handful of cheese combos. If you pull a random unit out of the marine codex, it's a poor unit compared to an Eldar unit or even a Tau unit at this point.

All marine vehicles are essentially garbage because of poor AV and HP. Marine fliers are bad. Assault marines that aren't skyhammer are bad. Terminators are bad. Devastators are bad. Tacs that aren't Gladius are bad. Most marine characters are bad. Bikes are good. Centurions are good. Command squads are good. All the things that don't have the marine stat line. Note that BA have all the bad units from vanilla marines and none of the good units/formations.

Contrast this to Eldar. Eldar have so many units that are amazing outside of a formation or death star.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/23 16:04:32


 
   
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PacificRimJob wrote:
I did just pick up 12 more bikes, they look super cool and after reading there rules finally there good! Can't wait to use then


This just went against most of the advice given to you.
   
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mhalko1 wrote:
PacificRimJob wrote:
I did just pick up 12 more bikes, they look super cool and after reading there rules finally there good! Can't wait to use then


This just went against most of the advice given to you.


It's fine. Eldar players can't help themselves.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
Marines are kept in business by a handful of cheese combos. If you pull a random unit out of the marine codex, it's a poor unit compared to an Eldar unit or even a Tau unit at this point.

All marine vehicles are essentially garbage because of poor AV and HP. Marine fliers are bad. Assault marines that aren't skyhammer are bad. Terminators are bad. Devastators are bad. Tacs that aren't Gladius are bad. Most marine characters are bad. Bikes are good. Centurions are good. Command squads are good. All the things that don't have the marine stat line. Note that BA have all the bad units from vanilla marines and none of the good units/formations.

Contrast this to Eldar. Eldar have so many units that are amazing outside of a formation or death star.


Can't argue with Eldar/tau.. but disagree with some of your space marine points.

- Storm talons are freaking amazing.. 115 points for assault cannon and skyhammer missles.. That is probably the best flyer in the game for points
- Devastators are not bad at all.. access to grav makes them pretty crazy. Have you fielded a squad of heavy bolters? they are really cheap and can really hold down a line that infantry don't want to have to cross, not to mention some chapter tactics make these units better
- tac marines, same as devastators... keep them cheap, put them in pods, say hello to any objective you want. T4 3+ is essentially the ground work for a unit in the game and that can be decently tough to take down. Mass marine armies are really good objective scoring game winners. The only reason some armies, Eldar/Tau have better units is that those armies sacrifice versatility for specialization.

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 Grizzyzz wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Marines are kept in business by a handful of cheese combos. If you pull a random unit out of the marine codex, it's a poor unit compared to an Eldar unit or even a Tau unit at this point.

All marine vehicles are essentially garbage because of poor AV and HP. Marine fliers are bad. Assault marines that aren't skyhammer are bad. Terminators are bad. Devastators are bad. Tacs that aren't Gladius are bad. Most marine characters are bad. Bikes are good. Centurions are good. Command squads are good. All the things that don't have the marine stat line. Note that BA have all the bad units from vanilla marines and none of the good units/formations.

Contrast this to Eldar. Eldar have so many units that are amazing outside of a formation or death star.


Can't argue with Eldar/tau.. but disagree with some of your space marine points.

- Storm talons are freaking amazing.. 115 points for assault cannon and skyhammer missles.. That is probably the best flyer in the game for points
- Devastators are not bad at all.. access to grav makes them pretty crazy. Have you fielded a squad of heavy bolters? they are really cheap and can really hold down a line that infantry don't want to have to cross, not to mention some chapter tactics make these units better
- tac marines, same as devastators... keep them cheap, put them in pods, say hello to any objective you want. T4 3+ is essentially the ground work for a unit in the game and that can be decently tough to take down. Mass marine armies are really good objective scoring game winners. The only reason some armies, Eldar/Tau have better units is that those armies sacrifice versatility for specialization.


I don't think storm talons are that good. The assault cannon and skyhammer missiles are actually marginal firepower in today's game. Starting in reserves by default also sucks.

Non-skyhammer devs will likely die before they fire their grav. I should have said non-skyhammer devs. Heavy bolter devs are terrible in the current game. No one cares about heavy bolters any more, and haven't since 5th.

Tac marines are terrible, and have been for a long, long time now. Lists like Tau and Eldar can actually wipe up mass marines and prevent the objective scheme from working. T4 3+ is no longer durable in 40K. The list you describe is one of the marine list types my BA can actually beat, so I know it's not very good in practice.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/23 16:44:51


 
   
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 koooaei wrote:
Eldar, gravguns and decurion are a reason 7-th gets bad rep.


Honestly, Decurion is rather tame compared to most things nowadays. I'd much rather fight that than Admech, Eldar, Gladius marines, Imperial Knights, or the new Tau book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PacificRimJob wrote:
I did just pick up 12 more bikes, they look super cool and after reading there rules finally there good! Can't wait to use then


Umm...

Judging by the OP, you won't be able to use them. People denied you games. You ask why. Then you go buy the thing that's the biggest reason as to why.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/23 16:50:05


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preston

 Melissia wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
Sisters would get more complaints


That statement wasn't about Sisters players complaining. It was people saying Sisters players complain too much, even though Marine players do almost nothing BUT complain, and we don't actually have many threads where Sisters players complain.

I find that Marine players whine more than just about any other players. Sisters players, in contrast, whine very little despite being one of the most neglected armies.

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A lot of marine players are into the absurd fluff and can't accept that the rank and file marine is just a victim now.
   
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mhalko1 wrote:
PacificRimJob wrote:
I did just pick up 12 more bikes, they look super cool and after reading there rules finally there good! Can't wait to use then


This just went against most of the advice given to you.
so because other people dont like eldar that means i cant buy the models i think look awesome.? the advice ive been getting is on what to do if i want to play fair games, not about what models i get. and if come the time someone brings something crazy then ill have something aswell


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
PacificRimJob wrote:
I did just pick up 12 more bikes, they look super cool and after reading there rules finally there good! Can't wait to use then


This just went against most of the advice given to you.


It's fine. Eldar players can't help themselves.
is this suppose to be some kind of insult.? thats pretty rude.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 17:29:57


 
   
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PacificRimJob wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Cause when others get nerfs and sidegrades, eldar get scatbikes, free S: D and 295 GMC.
And than the rest of the codexes have to adjust to them. And once again, a painful power creep cycle begins. Some like sm get in in months, others like orks or dark eldar get it in 5-7 years. And than the new eldar book gets released.
It was in 6-th, it was in 7-th. There was basicaly 1 edition where eldar weren't broken - 5-th one.

Eldar were a reason 4-th was called an edition of god falcons. They, alongside tau, were a reason why 6-th lost tons of players and the player base hasn't recuperated yet...and probably never will. Eldar, gravguns and decurion are a reason 7-th gets bad rep.
it's just a game tho, these guys at the local store make it sound like I'm some horrible person, I just want to move models around and roll dice. Who cares how strong something is.


Feth these ossholes, if they have already straight up refused to play you move on and find another place to play.
   
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"is this suppose to be some kind of insult.? thats pretty rude."

No, just a statement of fact. Jetbikes are both good looking models and obscenely powerful. That ensures that every Eldar player has a reason to own them.
   
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 krodarklorr wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Eldar, gravguns and decurion are a reason 7-th gets bad rep.


Honestly, Decurion is rather tame compared to most things nowadays. I'd much rather fight that than Admech, Eldar, Gladius marines, Imperial Knights, or the new Tau book.


IKR! Personally, for me as a primarily ork player, decurion is a fine match up simply cause i can outscore them and not be wiped out in the process. But most other armies tend to gravitate towards 'safer' shooting from afar. And shooting doesn't do as much against necrons as you'd probably like.
   
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Your original post was that people did not want to play you because playing against a WAAC eldar list is not fun. We explain to you what is considered especially broken about eldar and that is the likely reason that you will struggle to get a game. You then double down on the very unit we told you people have an issue with. Not sure what we can do to help you at this point.
   
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HoundsofDemos wrote:
Your original post was that people did not want to play you because playing against a WAAC eldar list is not fun. We explain to you what is considered especially broken about eldar and that is the likely reason that you will struggle to get a game. You then double down on the very unit we told you people have an issue with. Not sure what we can do to help you at this point.
my list is not WAAC. And further more I got 12 bikes to replace my old bikes, how does that make me a bad person.? On a side note tho I have found a gaming group that is opening to playing anything
   
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 master of ordinance wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
Sisters would get more complaints


That statement wasn't about Sisters players complaining. It was people saying Sisters players complain too much, even though Marine players do almost nothing BUT complain, and we don't actually have many threads where Sisters players complain.

I find that Marine players whine more than just about any other players. Sisters players, in contrast, whine very little despite being one of the most neglected armies.


I hate that a few bad Marine players who whine make the rest of us Marine players look bad, exactly the same with Eldar. Some players take the really nasty lists and make the rest of the Eldar players look bad, so people refuse to play us even though most of us don't take the nasty lists. It's a shame.

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So,

question asked
advice given
more advice given much surprisingly cordial and useful
advice ignored for pew pew

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 Melissia wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
Sisters would get more complaints


That statement wasn't about Sisters players complaining. It was people saying Sisters players complain too much, even though Marine players do almost nothing BUT complain, and we don't actually have many threads where Sisters players complain.

You are literally the only person I've seen ever say this.

In this thread alone I see IG, Chaos, Sisters, and BA players complaining. The sisters and BA complainers are one poster for each faction, so we can disregard them if you want. I don't see marine players complaining. If you lump CSM or BA in with standard marines then sure, but CSM have reason to complain and BA do as well currently.
The only complaints you see from marine players are the ones I listed above, and they aren't very common by any stretch. You certainly don't see multi-page threads like you do in regards to IG, Nids, Tau, Eldar, Crons, SM, or CSM. You see far more complaints from CSM and IG players than marines, and you could easily argue that CSM and IG are far outnumbered by marine players.

I have never heard anyone say sisters players complain too much. I have seen people say that in regards to you, but you're very....crass with how you view other players, especially marine players.
You really don't hear about sisters at all, beyond the massive thread regarding why they aren't available in plastic. I've never heard anyone say anything in regards to their complaining, and I'm on the forums pretty frequently.
   
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The marine players have a valid complaint in that 75% of their codex is crap and only max-cheese combos keep them in the top. As opposed to Eldar, whose random units can curb stomp optimized Orks and BA.
   
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A lot of the armies that have, traditionally, gotten a lot of love from GW gets a lot of hate from those who don't.

Eldar, Tau, Necrons, and SM get a ton of hate. Generally this is from the armies that don't get a lot of love, like IG, CSM, Nids, Sisters, and DE. It's the worst from armies that have...similar counter parts that do get love, like CSM and De in regards to SM and Eldar. Those are the armies that complain the most, despite what anyone wants to claim about marine players. Sisters would probably be up there, but they are simply so rare that it doesn't happen.

Keep in mind that these armies aren't exactly common, number wise SM have a huge advantage over them in terms of players, so the fact you see more posts from them than anyone else is pretty damning.
Not that they don't have reason to complain. Every army has a few units that aren't great, and OP armies get flack as well.

I do find it odd that orks, an army that tends not to get a lot of love is usually pretty upbeat about the whole thing.
I do think the angriest players are IG and Sisters. They have the most abused factions, so I suppose it makes sense.
The saddest players are CSM. I think the anger has turned to depression and acceptance for many at this point.


But these generalizations that other posters are making are usually sweeping and not really true. They can't really believe that ALL marine players do nothing but complain about everything. At least on this forum, SM players are not anywhere close to the major part of the whiners, at least in regards to their own army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 20:40:27


 
   
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I still don't understand the marine hate, because they weren't anything special until GRAV CENTS and INVISIBLITY DUDE FROM FW. Eldar have been godly since the Clinton administration.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/23 20:38:43


 
   
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I concur with the above. As a marine player who takes a CAD, doesn't use cents at all, plays primarily mounted marines and doesn't abuse the ally rules to have the superfriends of many chapters show up, our book is mostly average outside of formations and one or two units.

What makes eldar the strongest army in the game is that they don't need a mega formation or bonuses to win, there units are just that good. If you limited everyone to one CAD, the eldar list would probably always be the nastiest there is.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
I still don't understand the marine hate, because they weren't anything special until GRAV CENTS and INVISIBLITY DUDE FROM FW. Eldar have been godly since the Clinton administration.


People always hate the most popular thing, regardless of power level. Especially if they are a faction that doesn't get a lot of love.

Cryx, in WMH, is easily the most popular and hated faction in the entire game. This is despite the fact they haven't gotten anything really good in the last few expansions, and armies like Trolls skewing the meta causing the game to become less fun for everyone involved. Cryx doesn't even abuse theme lists as much as the other factions (legion, circle, and Trolls) but get way more hate than anyone else.

I say this as someone who plays Skorne (The weakest army), Cryx, and Cygnar.

I also play Eldar, SM, CSM, SW, Nids, Necrons, Tau, and Orks. I own some IG but they were converted towards gangs for necromunda and gorka morka.
   
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The North

Akiasura wrote:

The saddest players are CSM. I think the anger has turned to depression and acceptance for many at this point.


Through navigating the twisting currents in the warp, I can confirm this is true. As the power of the four main Gods decline a new God has been brought mewling into the nether - Apathy, the God of depression and disinterest, brought into being by the cumulative emotions of Chaos Space Marine players world-wide.

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its odd since in AOS chaos has gotten so much love, but none in 40k
   
 
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