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2015/12/29 20:38:26
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
Last Updated 03/07/2016: The Riptide! And now Ghostkeel!
Hey everyone! There have been a large uptick in the number of Tau players since the latest release and thus many small questions scattered over the forum. I was recently PM'd from a new player with a bunch of really good questions that many new players might have. Because of this, I thought "Hey! maybe I should start a thread.."
Some things I realize by starting a thread like this.. it won't be 100% complete , and I hope that people will post additional bits of information, and as I am a busy man, will not have time to write it all up in one go!
Goal 1: Compile a list of general information and loadouts for running a FSE style TAC list. Goal 2: Compile a list of general information and strategies for playing FSE style lists with new and old builds.
I hope other experienced players will add their own thoughts to the list! I will try and keep up with peoples comments and add them to the main posting. If you do not see it here.. please write something up and I will add you to the list of worker bees =D
So... here it goes.. *lets see how many people dislike what I have to say
Commander
Spoiler:
What suit list will not be complete without a battlesuit commander! There are 2 variants that i think most people can agree to look at immediately (buff, mark'o):
Buff commander: A TE commander that is loaded up with all their great sig systems and used to add all those special rules to the unit he is in. Considering RAW of some of the new formations this can become very powerful. This style commander IS NOW ABLE to be taken in BOTH TE detachments and FSE detachments, given the 2016 FSE supplement rules, that FSE can take both their relics AND TE relics. woohoo!
Mark'O: Staple markerlight drone commander build. It's cheap, for an HQ that will relatively keep out of LOS or away from the nasty enemy units. Typically seen 2x missilepods, drone controller, target lock attached to a squad of 5-8 marker drones. If your running Mark'o your probably not running many other sources of markerlights and that is fine, this offers a point and click style list, that happens to work really well in the new DBC force.
Now there are some other commanders that I have found over my experience either fun to play or a decent HQ slot holder.
Brightsword: Essentially this is who you are building, Twin fusion blaster, fusion blades, extra equipment is up to you, i have found a shield generator, and vectored thrusters or target lock good options. Not the most competitive commander because of the cost, but for any fun game, he has never let me down. I usually spend the extra points for a warscaper drone to boot, just to get around faster.
xv84: Forgeworld variant, network-markerlight. Equip with a twin-plasma rifle, extra equipment, and you have a nice offensive HQ that can buff his own squad. I have seen some very successful lists that equip a warscaper drone to ouflank a unit of broadsides. This was of course before Kauyon and Montka.
Simple: Dual Plasma rifles, Stim, Vector thrusters. comes in around 140 points and offers a decent offensive output. Charge a unit to survive your opponents turn of shooting then run off.
There are plenty of variants here because it really comes down to what you want them to do.
Crisis Suits
Spoiler:
The swiss army knife of any TE or FSE army. You can essentially design your crisis teams to counter whatever army you want, but that is no fun, at least for me. So lets look at some combinations that cover a nice basis for multiple threats.
First off, lets talk about the unit size. Anywhere from 1-9, wow, that is crazy. In another thread for fun, I made a unit of 9 bodyguard over 1000 points. That is pretty unpractical. As it stands, i am still a fan of running in squads of three. I think that is a really solid balance of offense and cost. Running a FSE style suit army you are going to be elite, you're going to have less models then your opponent, so keeping your squad sizes smaller at the least saturates some of his target priority. Another benefit of keeping your squad size down is heroic morale. BKR is a tax in FSE but ultimately you don't need it for squads of sizes < 4.
So, what are some load outs we should look at:
MEQ - TEQ: you want plasma rifles. This is probably my favorite weapon load out in the arsenal because it has ok RoF and ap2 without the gets hot penalty we see in the marine equivalent.
GEQ: This is something I know I am going to get a lot of heat for.. but burst cannons. I am a fan, always have been, they are cost effective and have high RoF. The s5 makes them versatile enough that you can handle light armor targets, MEQs if you have too, but anything worse then a guardsmen is going to drop.
Broadside replacements: Cyclic Ion Blasters.. 52 points for a crisis suit to hold 6 s7 shots. not bad at all, it even has a blast option which can assist with horde control. Same cost as the MP makes the MP almost useless in the current meta imo as the CIB is superior in firepower. Otherwise, I think this build is extremely versatile, some will argue better then burst cannons at GEQ+ but it is not debatable against MCs, < AV14 and the like.
Missiles Missiles everywhere: Thank you Drasius for pointing out I did not mention these. Although CIBs are considerably more powerful they are half the range of a missile pod. The range and still decent RoF from pods can allow you to JSJ out of LOS, kite shorter range opponents, and hold backfield objectives while still being offensive. This style build I have found most effective with a buffmander/markerlight combination (but this unit takes a ton of agro). [list]Anti AV: This is a style of play that is not as common now, but dual Fusion blaster suits. For the cost, you won't have a more effective unit at taking out high AV threats. The issue in the current meta is the abuse of cover saves that can make this unit ineffective if you can't supply the markerlights to help them.
Anti horde: welcome dual airburst frags.. 2 large blasts ignore cover yes please. What a great option now that these are not unique. I would recommend if you are going to use this build to consider running them in squads of two. I think a squad of 3 or more will prove to be overkill most of the time. That is not to say a squad of 2 will always eliminate your target, but it's a debate on point efficiency, which in an elite army you can't waste too many.
Here is an example of what I take in pretty much every one of my lists and have had consistent success with. Supplies an option for handling TEQ, MEQ, GEQ, AV, and MC.
1x3 dual plasma
2x3 dual burst cannons
A combination I will be trying soon is a PR/CIB combo. I think that matchup could be successful, giving you enough RoF at high str, and even provide some low ap.
Riptides
Spoiler:
Big robots yes! Who doesn't like the riptide? Anyway, Riptides are pretty staple in the current meta. There are very few lists I would say that don't include them. Why is that? Put simply, they can do everything Tau needs: versitile, mobile, tanky, and put out quite the punch offensively.
Rather then just list a build, I am going to talk about each main weapon:
Ion Accelerator: Easily the most common option. Multiple profiles offering some RoF or Large blasts of high strength and ap2. What is probably the best quality of the IA is the option to Nova charge. IA is good as is, in few cases will you ever need to use the nova profile. The IA is good against everything lets be honest here.. MEQ, TEQ, GEQ (blast), Av <14 reliably (but can still glance it!). The enormous range also is a huge factor, allowing you to kite your opponent with ease.
Heavy Burst Cannon: Not as common as the IA but with the introduction of the "riptide wing" formation you are probably going to see this played more and more. It's base profile is not great. s6 ap4 is great for multiple targets but compared to the IA it is not filling a gap in your list you already can't fill. HOWEVER, it's nova profile, 12 shots s6 rending.. is AMAZING! s6 Rending is one of the best AV threats in the game. The only neg to this profile is the gets hot but that can be mitigated with FNP or boosted BS, which is easier to come by now with so many formation bonuses.
Great, so what about the secondary?
Fusion Blaster: Another pretty common option, s8 IDs T4 targets but also gives you that extra punch for Heavy AV threats.
Smart Missle: Another common option. Pairs nicely with the IA as you can Nova to fire this twice, giving you some nice RoF to lay into larger troop units. It can also be a pain to light jinking vehicles (DE skimmers for example).
Plasma Rifle: If anyone wants to comment here, be my guest. I think this is the least common option. Doesn't help you with Higher AV targets, and doesn't help you with RoF like the previous two options. If you find yourself hunting MCs or TEQ mostly, I could see this as a decent inbetween where you need that extra strength paired with lower AP and still fire off a couple shots.
As there are a bunch of equipment options, here are the most common and why:
=green]Stimulant Injectors: [/color] The most common option and albeit neccessary on the HBC variant. The FNP takes the already good defense of the riptide to extreme levels. It is also your only defense against "no saves allowed" type attacks (such as some psychic abilities). It also can be used with a failed Nova charge to help prevent that auto wound. It is pricey so at times you will see people not equip with an IA variant, and this follows the reasoning of not needing to Nova charge as often, and the ability to kite your opponents easier.
Early Warning: If stim was the most common option, then this falls into the NECESSARY category. Even if you don't intercept the fact that it is an option can help give you control over your opponents reserves placements. It is too cheap not to take it. And intercept with IA is awesome.. more prevelant now with the Montka drone net offering Intercepting markerlight support!
Velocity Trackers: Not as common, but pair nicely with a HBC. With it, you can take out pretty much any flyer in the game. It is a trap on the IA, the str seems good but you need the RoF against flyers who most likely will be jinking, and s7 is worse then s6 rending =)
Counter Fire: Another uncommon option, but I felt it is good enough to mention. If you find you have extra points and an extra hardpoint, take this. It works nicely with either weapon variants and adds some extra threat to your supporting overwatch![/list]
What about the drones: Maybe someone wants to jump in here with some good advice.
To me, they are expensive for what they offer, and not as tanky as a riptide, if you lose one, your taking a leadership test which is failable at LD9 and I rather not have my riptides falling back.
Ghostkeel
Spoiler:
I love the ghostkeel, everything about it, especially the model. I tip my hat to you GW!
Seriously though, solid offense and insane tanking abilities as the current meta is oozing with abusive cover, so why shouldn't tau!
Main weapon variants:
Fusion Collider: Ok, melta blast, not a bad option. Great against blobs of TEQ/MEQ and great against AV. I can't say much on effectiveness, as I haven't run this varient personally...PLEASE SOMEONE JUMP IN
Cyclic Ion Raker: Tau seem to be fancying Ion technology right now. Solid. This weapon gives you everything you can ask for, s7 for most AV threats in the game at high ROF, and a large blast s8 profile to nuke blobs and ID t4 baddies. This weapon becomes abusive with ignore cover and special rules from the Optimized Stealth Cadre out of Kauyon!
Secondary weapon variants:
Fusion Blaster: I feel like this is the most common secondary option people are going too. IN the OSC, it pretty much ensures your taking out your target. Otherwise, it is great against AV, and useful against TEQ and MEQ.
Burst Cannons: I feel these are underated because of the general availablity of s5 for Tau, but I have had some success myself. Combined with the CIR, you have a pretty solid amount of ROF to take on MEQ and GEQ units.
Flamer: Not the goto, but I am going to revist this myself. It is twinlinked, so you can reroll your wounds. Against hordes or MSU forces could prove to be decent. Plus side, gives you a little more risk to charging this guy.
Hard point options:
Stimulant injectors: If you are substituting your ghost as your riptide, then check this option out. 2++/5+++ in the open is disgusting at tanking; Making this already hard to kill unit even worse.
Early Warning: Many people might argue against this, especially if you are running these guys in the OSC (you do not get your bonuses in intercept). However, I have had some success against deepstriking threats that land within your 12" bubble. Nuke them your arsenal, hope you live and jump into a better position your next turn.
Velocity Trackers: More and more lists you are seeing atleast one ghost in an OSC with this. Essentially your negating Jink saves, and killing any flyer that enters your 24" bubble and pairs nicely with EWO for arial denial over a large portion of the battlefield.
Counter Fire: Another uncommon option you might not see on too many builds, but offers some nice supporting fire from these guys.
Common mistakes!!!!
Drones in front: Keep in mind, maybe its ok to do this for a few drones to soak up those first sets of wounds. Remember though the drones don't get 2+ cover saves in the open.. only the ghost has the double cover special rules!
Counter measures: Let's not debate this here.. just remember that you have them, and use them for anything that you won't get saves for, or anything ap3+ within your 12" bubble.
Taking down a Wraithknight.. why it sucks so much
Spoiler:
So this has been coming up recently on many forums and groups I watch. Most effective way to handle a Wriathknight or Stormsurge? Well had some time so I did some numbers. Tau surprisingly have a hard time dealing with GMC despite our heavy firepower. Of course I am considering 0 D-missiles (not everyone uses a stormsurge themselves).
*Note: No invisibility, BS5 cause markerlights, no ethereal, no fireblade, no darkstrider; you need 9 damage because 5+ FNP
I thought this was pretty interesting. Comparing shield and w/o CIBs offer decent approaches to both because of the s7 wounding on 5s. It is just crazy at the amount of firepower you need to take one of these down.. and its under 400 points.. ugh
Additionally you would need 11 crisis suits with fusion to commit, or 9 with plasma (assuming rapid range which I computed for). Taking one down in 1 go is not worth trying, the amount of damage you can do to other units in the army is far more effective.
Stormsurge w/ shield: ***I only did shield because why would be not have one. 8 WOUNDS! 12 damage cause FNP
Thank you to those who caught errors: Jancoran, Peregrim This was extremely interesting to me.
Notice the RoF vs Ap debate in action here. The burst cannons and plasmas take about the same number of suits/weapons to do the same task, one throws more dice, the other has low ap. The WK 5s and 6s wound the same on T8. On the surge the better invul makes up for the easier wounding. Very interesting.
I initially suspected the Surge was more vulnerable then the WK but as this shows it takes more low AP and less RoF to kill the Surge when compared to the WK. And as you can see, Tau struggles in this area greatly.. it will take multiple turns committing units to this task.. and shows the issue with GMC in general.
Pretty sure a FSE Commander cannot use TE signature systems, which makes the Buffmander not an available Commander build for FSE. It seems that the design for FSE pushes for a Fusionblade, Shield, Drone Controller build.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2015/12/29 23:47:08
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
Burst cannons are virtually obsolete compared to cyclic ion blasters IMHO. The jump in str is noticeable on anything that's not a guardsman and allows for double duty as anti tank since it's easily able to glance even av13 to death with volume of shots. Not to mention the bump in ap is significant as a lot of places still rely on 4+ saves and cover camping, the cib and markerlights allows you to ignore both of these.
As jeffersonian mentioned, the FSE prevents use of TE toys, so it's probably worth noting that he's unavailable bar Allies/2nd detachment.
I also think you've given missiles a bad rap, yes, circuit have an extra shot, but the extra 18" of range on the missiles is a huge benefit too, doubly so when you can jsj out of LoS. Also handy for simply staying out of retaliation range or reaching out to touch someone with good mobility who could otherwise play keep away with shorter Ranged suits.
The ability to take single suits not only in formations, but also as obsec troops should also be touched on. The frustration and effectiveness of a single double flamer suit, especially deep striking onto objectives, is far beyond its meagre points cost.
Taking EWO on plasma suits can achieve a similar result to a Riptides IA, but with almost no risk, and with the new Drone-Net formations, you can still have your ignores cover ap2 even during interceptor.
A big group with target locks is probably best done from TE where buffmander is available, but it's still viable.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
2015/12/30 00:11:08
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
jeffersonian000 wrote: Pretty sure a FSE Commander cannot use TE signature systems, which makes the Buffmander not an available Commander build for FSE. It seems that the design for FSE pushes for a Fusionblade, Shield, Drone Controller build.
SJ
Definitely true. But with the formations available now, I wanted to list it anyway as they could take a suit style formation as TE and run a buff mander
It was always pretty easy to ally Tau and FSE together to get the much coveted buffmander, though with formations now it's possible to do so without ever taking even a single footslogger.
The biggest problem with the CIB is the fact that the parts for it have always been scarce (you get one per $60 commander kit, or have one left over per finecast commander kit, or have one metal one left over for each commander upgrade kit) so you really need to go out of your way to get more.
That said, yes, if you commit to the burst cannon, it will shock and amaze. One time for a lark I ran a unit of three suits with dual BCs with a commander kitted out the same, threw in a drone controller and maxed out gun drones, whereby they proceeded to drown every unit I threw them at, be they guard blobs, boy blobs, tac squads, and once, memorably, a terminator squad.
I also rather like the warscraper drone paired with the seismic node, even if the latter is extremely temperamental.
I run a "Pure Suit" FSE army and have had a lot of success utilizing the following Suit build:
-Dual Airbursting Fragmentation projector: I usually run this in either a team of x3 with target lock or I run a single suit, almost always Deep Strike them due to the fact after running them once my opponents at my FLGS know to kill these guys ASAP. The damage these guys can do against all targets (including MEQs) is pretty impressive and I always try to take a single team or a few Suits kitted out this way.
Also I understand that Burst Cannons are also pretty good, but I have to agree that the CIB is a much better option for only 5pts. You do lose an additional shot but in exchange you get +2 Strength and -1AP allowing them to be even more effective against a wider range of targets. Also running Suits with a single CIB and Plasma Gun I have found works rather well especially against armies with a range range of armor saves and toughness values like allied Imperial Forces, Orks and Tyranids.
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
2015/12/30 05:23:46
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
I don't get the love for the Airburst Frag, its just bolters as blast markers.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2015/12/30 07:00:30
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
jeffersonian000 wrote: I don't get the love for the Airburst Frag, its just bolters as blast markers.
The fact its a Large Blast that Ignores Cover and is a Barrage Weapon so it causes Pinning and the fact you can equip a single Crisis Suit for x2 of these for a mere 30pts. is why I have found it to be pretty good, especially against swarm armies like Orks, Guard and Bugs.
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
2015/12/30 07:02:26
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
jeffersonian000 wrote: I don't get the love for the Airburst Frag, its just bolters as blast markers.
The fact its a Large Blast that Ignores Cover and is a Barrage Weapon so it causes Pinning and the fact you can equip a single Crisis Suit for x2 of these for a mere 30pts. is why I have found it to be pretty good, especially against swarm armies like Orks, Guard and Bugs.
Barrage doesn't cause pinning anymore
2015/12/30 12:03:13
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
Perfect man! Love the info you used every thing you find on other threats (I have been also reading those but not its out together which is really nice!)
Thumps up and respect for this man and his advice!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 19:50:40
2016/03/04 18:43:20
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
The dark blue coloring makes it difficult the read the entry names. How about light blue, instead?
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2016/03/05 02:52:19
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
I think it's absolutely pertinent to mention that with the Farsight Enclaves supplement update, FSE lists now have complete access to both the FSE and Tau signature systems.
2016/03/05 03:51:47
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
No, it's still a bit hard the read the bullet point titles, the dark blue is just hard for my eyes. Oh well.
Some cool updates: FSE armies can now take both TE and FSE sig systems, even on the same model. Earth Caste Pilot Array is still not available to Riptides other than O'Vesa.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
2016/03/05 05:25:32
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
chalkobob wrote: I think it's absolutely pertinent to mention that with the Farsight Enclaves supplement update, FSE lists now have complete access to both the FSE and Tau signature systems.
Yes absolutely! I will ammend that in the main post.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jeffersonian000 wrote: No, it's still a bit hard the read the bullet point titles, the dark blue is just hard for my eyes. Oh well..
SJ
No its a fair request. I'll change all the blues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/05 05:26:43
Has anybody tried taking a Coldstar Commander? I like the idea of a proper Flying Crisis Suit, but one failed grounding test runs the risk of squishing him out right. Plus I'm not too excited about the weapon loadout that it gets stuck with.
2016/03/06 23:17:02
Subject: Re:Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
BunkhouseBuster wrote: Has anybody tried taking a Coldstar Commander? I like the idea of a proper Flying Crisis Suit, but one failed grounding test runs the risk of squishing him out right. Plus I'm not too excited about the weapon loadout that it gets stuck with.
Weapons are bad. First thing anything in the air needs to be able to do is clear its own air space. 2s7 shots is not enough to take down any flyer that can opt to jink.
being t4 is also bad because as you said insta pop on a grounding test.
All that said tho, I have had ok use with him when i am trying to have him just swoop around giving the "run and shoot" bubble for my hunter cadre's, but that is not an optimal use for how costly he is.
Grizzyzz wrote: Weapons are bad. First thing anything in the air needs to be able to do is clear its own air space. 2s7 shots is not enough to take down any flyer that can opt to jink.
being t4 is also bad because as you said insta pop on a grounding test.
All that said tho, I have had ok use with him when i am trying to have him just swoop around giving the "run and shoot" bubble for my hunter cadre's, but that is not an optimal use for how costly he is.
That's what I was kind of thinking. I just don't get that excited about Burst Cannons on my Crisis Suits when I plan on having plenty of other options for S5 AP5 shooting in the army. I could see the Coldstar being handy in smaller games where anti-air units may not make as much of an appearance, perhaps. If we could put a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, or AFP on the Coldstar, then we'd have something!
The winged bits and alternate thrusters do look really cool though. Maybe that would be a good starting point for a custom plastic Commander Farsight. Hm...
2016/03/07 12:54:16
Subject: Re:Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
That's what I was kind of thinking. I just don't get that excited about Burst Cannons on my Crisis Suits when I plan on having plenty of other options for S5 AP5 shooting in the army. I could see the Coldstar being handy in smaller games where anti-air units may not make as much of an appearance, perhaps. If we could put a Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, or AFP on the Coldstar, then we'd have something!
The winged bits and alternate thrusters do look really cool though. Maybe that would be a good starting point for a custom plastic Commander Farsight. Hm...
Definitely great for conversions or any Gundam Wing fan.
I personally am using the model as a Fusion Blade Commander. This kit is a little beefier then the normal resin commander kits, so it fits nicely that I also have Iridium armor equipped now.
Going back to coldstar.. the thing is.. if they allowed full customization we would have potentially one of the best flyers in the game. And i think they wanted to keep us from "Tau flying circus" style lists. For example.. lets just assume you would be able to customize the weapons completely.
as a misslepod is 15pts.. assuming the fancy burst cannon is 25pts, you are literally paying 20 pts to make a commander a pseudo FMC. (105pts naked coldstar suit). Then you take iridium armor and FNP and a shield for another 65 points.. (170 now). Then, since CIBs aren't signatures, you can take 2 of those for another 30 points.. so your at 200 points now for a T5 2+/4++/FNPFMC w/ 6s7 shots. That's pretty gross.. granted you can only have 1 with a iridium suit.. so you can shave off 25 points respectively and have as many commanders as you want with the same load out otherwise for 175 points.. Not to mention other signature systems, such as the neuroweb.
The other reason is... if he was allowed to take anything, you can load him out with straight buffmanderness.. So now you have this t5 guy that flys around is nearly impossible to kill, and just looks at things, so with the RAW combined fire rules you can buff any unit that you want... this is probably the true reason they didn't allow it, and I don't necessarily blame them for that.. everyone would have banned Tau from everything haha.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 12:54:42
Yes, coldstars have fixed and unimpressive weapon loadout and no relic access because they would be otherwise bonkers.
As for tau flying circus, I'm playing with the concept of one.
With FSE you can get 8 coldstars, 8 drop suits with dual 15 guns and a riptide with some upgrades at a list.
That's a lot of coldstars and drop fusion. It's bound to be at least amusing.
Bare bones coldstar may be no flyrant, but it's CHEAP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 14:04:46
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
2016/03/07 14:16:15
Subject: Evolving Guide for the New Generation of FSE players!
raverrn wrote: Even then a Flyrant is about the same for 12 S6 shots and a psyker to boot. I don't see the issue.
You said it right there.. 12 s6... scatter bike meta anyone? s6 is 100x more flexible then s5 in what you can shoot. Not only do Flyrants have s6 guns they have 12 twin linked shots of them..
So right now you have a 220 point flyrant i want to say vs a 160 point coldstar. The flyrant even if it takes a grounding test is T6 so it wont insta pop, gives a fearless bubble, has psychic to boot, when it lands, is deadly in CC. Just so much more utility so much more..
6 s5 shots is literally nothing.. lets assume all 6 hit a squad of marines.. 6 hits.. 4 wounds.. 1 maybe 2 marines killed =/ wow. 2s7 lets assume 2 hit.. 2 wounds.. another 1 marine maybe.. so move that over 5 game turns.. your coldstar is killing maybe 15 marine.. not great.
Lets assume you shoot rhinos all day (av11). lets assume all your hits again. 1 glance and 1 glance/pen from missles respectively.. so there is a chance you could wreck a rhino a turn.. at AV12, your not effective at all (where s6 would still be).
So coldstar is pretty much ok at killing very light non jinking transports.. he is ok against Dark Eldar skimmers or other rear armor targets with markerlight help.. but we have so much better options at taking out vehicles more effectively (broadsides).
IDK.. I don't think he is worth it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BoomWolf wrote: Yes, coldstars have fixed and unimpressive weapon loadout and no relic access because they would be otherwise bonkers.
As for tau flying circus, I'm playing with the concept of one.
With FSE you can get 8 coldstars, 8 drop suits with dual 15 guns and a riptide with some upgrades at a list.
That's a lot of coldstars and drop fusion. It's bound to be at least amusing.
Bare bones coldstar may be no flyrant, but it's CHEAP.
I posted a coldstar spam list and got near zero people talking about it haha. Let me know what happens I would be really curious haha. It seems like a ton of fun at the least.. will it be good.. man i really doubt it since with 8 coldstars assuming none of them are taken out still are only moderately effective in shooting which is where we need to win games.. (also while swooping they dont score objectives which kinda blows). That said.. take my stats from above..
if 1 coldstar can kill about 3 marines.. 4 coldstars can pretty effectively take out a whole marine squad... so with 8, you could kill 20 marines a turn.. that could be ok... but the problem is you have 900-1000 points taking out ~200 points a turn... =/
Maybe.. maybe i could see a list of 8 coldstars.. minimal crisis suits, a stormsurge (so you can take out the toughest heavy vehicles or GMCs), and markerlights.. that list might actually be ok, because no one will expect 8 FMCs from tau lol
Another awesome option would have been if they could take the flyer drones as an option and have them flying around with him. that would have been neat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 14:56:02
something to consider:
take burst cannons on your crisis suits. Tau players are always told that there is enough Str5 in our armies that we don't need to take more. That is for TE. in FSE, most players choose to take crisis suits instead of a gun line of fire warriors. We FSE players don't actually have the weight of fire that it is assumed that we bring.
the TL Burst cannon on a coldstar is fine, especially in FSE where we don't actually have all that much Str5 going around.
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
(I have been also reading those but not its out together which is really nice!
)
- 535pts
40K - 2000pts
HH - 3000pts
- 40 Wounds 
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 