Is Eternal Warrior outdated?

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**Tactical_Spam**

NorseSig wrote:
I'd like to see more armies having access to EW especially ways to give it to generic HQs. I also think named HQs should have EW.

Would also like to see more ID weapons

Melta should be ID against GMCs and Superheavies when within half range mark or at least the multimelta or better should.

I would like to see better rules, less "MCs that should be walkers or infantry," less GMCs and SHVs in non-apoc, but GW is bad at making games.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Bobthehero wrote:

And for the record, I don't think PA fails 33% of the time

You have to roll a 3 or higher on a D6. There are 6 total numbers. It fails on a 1 or 2. 2/6 = 33%.

Yes it does. It's basic frickin math.

**Tactical_Spam**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:

And for the record, I don't think PA fails 33% of the time

You have to roll a 3 or higher on a D6. There are 6 total numbers. It fails on a 1 or 2. 2/6 = 33%.

Yes it does. It's basic frickin math.

I am sure he meant in the fluff. Don't get all angry because you divided a couple numbers.

**Ashiraya**

And it doesn't matter if it is a grot blasta or an Eradicator cannon, it's always 33%.

**Talys**

NorseSig wrote:

Melta should be ID against GMCs and Superheavies when within half range mark or at least the multimelta or better should.

Then nobody would ever take GMCs and SHs.

Will never happen.

**Bobthehero**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:

And for the record, I don't think PA fails 33% of the time

You have to roll a 3 or higher on a D6. There are 6 total numbers. It fails on a 1 or 2. 2/6 = 33%.

Yes it does. It's basic frickin math.

In universe, I meant, not in the game, I think that was pretty obvious

**vipoid**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
EW along with extra wounds is designed to represent a staple in nearly every story, that the main characters can take much more punishment than the rest of mooks. We see this in nearly every action genre nameless mooks go down to a shot or two, main guy takes a dozen and keeps going die hard style.

Again, plot armour of that kind would be represented by an extra wound or FNP.

Eternal Warrior is the equivalent of Indiana Jones surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge.

**HoundsofDemos**

To me it's a circular problem. The game has added more and more things that can kill instantly or cause many wounds at once. If that was toned down a bit, making it harder to peel off or instant kill models particularly t3 I'd be fine with EW going by the way side. But as is so many units would need massive cost reductions to compensate or a huge bump in invul saves.

**Slayer-Fan123**

ID just needs to be a mechanic where it inflicts D4 wounds (kinda like that Severing Cut ability that the Leviathan Dread has) and then EW ignores it. It places less importance on needing EW but still gives it value.

**Akiasura**

Tactical_Spam wrote:
NorseSig wrote:
I'd like to see more armies having access to EW especially ways to give it to generic HQs. I also think named HQs should have EW.

Would also like to see more ID weapons

Melta should be ID against GMCs and Superheavies when within half range mark or at least the multimelta or better should.

I would like to see better rules, less "MCs that should be walkers or infantry," less GMCs and SHVs in non-apoc, but GW is bad at making games.

ID is too much (the dice could spike and be really bad) but I wouldn't mind melta and lance weapons causing 2 wounds/HP. It would make them dedicated tank/heavy killers, compared to the PG spam you see today, and also reign in some of the more abusive units (GMCs).
Maybe 2 wounds to GMC and +2 to the damage table for SHV, since SHV tend to be weaker than GMCs.

**Iur_tae_mont**

TBH I think every named Character should get EW standard, except Lucius, he should have some weird "the unit that kills him has to pass a LD-minus the number of wounds dealt this turn to Lucius- check or a random member is replaced with the Lucius with one wound" because that would be awesome.

The whole reason named characters BECOME named against all of the Generals across all of the galaxy is because they survive and excel.

I believe everything else shouldn't have access to EW, and ID weapons should do d6 wounds to GMC instead of whatever they currently do.

**vipoid**

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

The whole reason named characters BECOME named against all of the Generals across all of the galaxy is because they survive and excel.

I know I'll be laughed out of the room for saying this, but (Lucius aside) perhaps these characters survive because they didn't exchange their brains for marbles and shiny objects.

Hence, they don't go around trying to tank lascannon hits and such, even with Storm Shields.

**NorseSig**

vipoid wrote:
Iur_tae_mont wrote:

The whole reason named characters BECOME named against all of the Generals across all of the galaxy is because they survive and excel.

I know I'll be laughed out of the room for saying this, but (Lucius aside) perhaps these characters survive because they didn't exchange their brains for marbles and shiny objects.

Hence, they don't go around trying to tank lascannon hits and such, even with Storm Shields.

Another way to look at it is Eternal warrior on those units would serve as a way to demonstrate their intelligence.

**vipoid**

NorseSig wrote:

Another way to look at it is Eternal warrior on those units would serve as a way to demonstrate their intelligence.

By what possible measure?

**HoundsofDemos**

near misses, other random plot events.

**Bobthehero**

You don't near miss with a shell that has 75 meters lethal radius, especially not when you shoot said shell directly on target.

**Jackal**

Depends, if its fired at a solitaire, is he really there?
The speed they move at in the fluff I think justifies the EW.

Some characters do receive plot armour, usually in the case of a ++ save.

However, this has become somewhat easy to obtain as of recent, so named characters are receiving EW aswell to show their ability to keep on going.

Having EW does not explicitly state they can take a cannon to the face, it could means a whole range of things.
Generally near misses as they move at the last second etc.

However, I highly doubt GW applied logic while creating most rules, so that's just my take on it.

**HoundsofDemos**

The shell went off near them but a combination of toughness, determination, intervening cover and armor/shielding it didn't outright kill them. It takes a level of abstraction I admit but it fits with the view of an epic cinema. It's plot armor to be sure but this game isn't just mechanical dice throwing it does try to incorporate some background into the game.

**Tactical_Spam**

vipoid wrote:
NorseSig wrote:

Another way to look at it is Eternal warrior on those units would serve as a way to demonstrate their intelligence.

By what possible measure?

Marneus Calgar determines what will hurt him before it hits so he knows when to dodge anything lethal

**A Town Called Malus**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
The shell went off near them but a combination of toughness, determination, intervening cover and armor/shielding it didn't outright kill them. It takes a level of abstraction I admit but it fits with the view of an epic cinema. It's plot armor to be sure but this game isn't just mechanical dice throwing it does try to incorporate some background into the game.

Toughness is covered by the toughness stat, determination is covered by number of wounds/feel no pain, intervening cover is determined by cover save and armour/shielding is covered by armour/invulnerable saves.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tactical_Spam wrote:

Marneus Calgar determines what will hurt him before it hits so he knows when to dodge anything lethal

How does that work against, say an Archon who is a lot faster than Calgar?

Or protect Calgar from a railgun round which is travelling faster than the speed of sound and faster than his eyes can track so by the time he knows he's been hit the slug has already gone clean out the other side?
Or a Lascannon shot which travels at the speed of light and so he cannot possibly dodge out of the way after it has been fired as his reflexes can only act at the speed of electrons, which is much slower than the speed of light.

**Slayer-Fan123**

So some of you would be perfectly fine if Primarchs could be wounded by a Force Weapon and just die?

**A Town Called Malus**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So some of you would be perfectly fine if Primarchs could be wounded by a Force Weapon and just die?

Why not?

**Tactical_Spam**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So some of you would be perfectly fine if Primarchs could be wounded by a Force Weapon and just die?

Why not?

Because Primarchs die to force swords all the time, right?

**Bobthehero**

Hell I'd lower their T so they could be doubled out and die like they should.

**Tactical_Spam**

Bobthehero wrote:
Hell I'd lower their T so they could be doubled out and die like they should.

Lets make Carnies T3 too and hey, maybe Wraithknights while were at it. And lets give every weapon ID. Hell, lets just take armour out of the game entirely. Eh, maybe we should just remove models as we feel like it.

**Bobthehero**

There's a difference between a carnifex and an oversized mutant

**HoundsofDemos**

Your right the mutant would win.

Going by Horus Heresy novels killing a primarch is very tough

**A Town Called Malus**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Your right the mutant would win.

Going by Horus Heresy novels killing a primarch is very tough

Unless you have the right poison

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tactical_Spam wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So some of you would be perfectly fine if Primarchs could be wounded by a Force Weapon and just die?

Why not?

Because Primarchs die to force swords all the time, right?

How many of them have been hit by one, in the fluff?

**Tactical_Spam**

Bobthehero wrote:
There's a difference between a carnifex and an oversized mutant

Not really. Perturabo is pretty big and so is Ferrus Headless.

**Ashiraya**

Bobthehero wrote:
You don't near miss with a shell that has 75 meters lethal radius, especially not when you shoot said shell directly on target.

Said shell (assuming we're talking battle cannon/earthshaker?) would just bounce off the model's artificer armour anyway, as if it was little more than a bayonette.