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Hello Dakka,

I was wondering what you guys use to combat wraithknights as a SM army?

I am not sure how expensive WK are, but Assault Centurians or a Leviathan Dreadnaught may be enough

Assault cents will never get near the thing, WKs are fast enough to choose where they can fight. Additionally it is faster and will insta kill each cent and ignores their armor.

Grav

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:
Grav

Quoted for truth

There is no reason to use anything other than Grav weapons.

They are a perfect, completely OP solution to everything, not taking it is intentionally handicapping yourself.

 Iechine wrote:
There is no reason to use anything other than Grav weapons.

They are a perfect, completely OP solution to everything, not taking it is intentionally handicapping yourself.

OP to everything? I couldn't hear you over the horde of Ork boys attacking me

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
There is no reason to use anything other than Grav weapons.

They are a perfect, completely OP solution to everything, not taking it is intentionally handicapping yourself.

OP to everything? I couldn't hear you over the horde of Ork boys attacking me

Sorry couldn't hear you over the lack of orks, and the massive amount of eldar and marines and tau .

Daemons say hi to Grav. Daemonettes and Seekers especially.

Back on topic, Nothing within the SM dex goes up to a WK and punches it, that's just asking for Bubba to bend you over in the prison showers...

WKs are in their entirely own league of bull honkie no friends zone whenever placed on a table, so just sit back and shoot it to death with w/e you have. (In this case, Grav since it is also broken AF)

Ork boys will get stomped to death before long and have no chance of hurting it or for that matter catching it. It's a jump creature, unless the person who is using it isn't paying attention your not going be fighting it with infantry unless he wants to fight.

Truth be told there is very little out there that fights against it well for the cost.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
There is no reason to use anything other than Grav weapons.

They are a perfect, completely OP solution to everything, not taking it is intentionally handicapping yourself.

OP to everything? I couldn't hear you over the horde of Ork boys attacking me

Centurians also have TL Hurricane Bolters

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Daemons say hi to Grav. Daemonettes and Seekers especially.

Back on topic, Nothing within the SM dex goes up to a WK and punches it, that's just asking for Bubba to bend you over in the prison showers...

WKs are in their entirely own league of bull honkie no friends zone whenever placed on a table, so just sit back and shoot it to death with w/e you have. (In this case, Grav since it is also broken AF)

But it kill MC/GMC's does it not?

Deathwing Knights, if they can get into combat with it, will trash a WK. Especially if something else softens it up a bit first (like a Ravenwing Command Squad's plasma talons). The problem (and it is not specific to WK) with DW knights is getting them into combat without getting them blown away.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Deathwing Knights, if they can get into combat with it, will trash a WK. Especially if something else softens it up a bit first (like a Ravenwing Command Squad's plasma talons). The problem (and it is not specific to WK) with DW knights is getting them into combat without getting them blown away.

they will never get there though, cc is overvalued by games workshop in the brb they fething wrote, heck cc units like mutilators and deathknights could be free and they still wouldnt ever be good choices because of how awful cc units are right now

the best 40k model for tackling one efficiently is probably a warhound, a hound need 3 good plates to kill the knight and the knight needs at least 2 phases of shooting to bring down the hound

A night lancer vs a melee wraithknight.

However the lancer costs 100 pts more and no one uses the melee Knight over the d pimp which is just better. The str d pimp wraithknight is the most point efficient unit in game.

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:
Grav

/thread

OP to everything? I couldn't hear you over the horde of Ork boys attacking me

The problem is that even when shooting at ork boyz, you'll do 75% of the damage with an amp-ed grav cannon that you would have done with a heavy bolter.

The only time it comes massively unstuck is an army with no armour and an invulnerable save - which is why Daemons can often upset a grav-spamming marine army as their ridiculous superweapons suddenly become nigh useless.

The other problem is that stood next to the dude with the grav-cannon is invariably numerous guys with bolters, and marine armies tend to come heavy with ways to get rerolls to hit (chapter tactics, tactical doctrines, librarians, etc).

What about Imperial Knight?

Depends, but generally it's a bad plan.

Heavy Wraithcannons specialise in taking down single big models, and it it's got the Wraithglave, it's also got a Strength D weapon but attacks first, and an invulnerable save in combat.

A suncannon-armed wraithknight is pretty easy prey for an Imperial Knight, but sadly they're probably the rarest weapons configuration.

Knight Lancer. Nothing will save you from lucky ranged D but get a Lancer into CC and the WK has to roll 5s to hit you and you have a 5++ in CC.

 Armada13 wrote:
What about Imperial Knight?

None of the Imperial Knights will stand up unless they get lucky (cost more, are vehicles so can suffer from Explodes! results, have worse saves and no save at all in Melee, don't have ranged D, attack 2nd in Melee with less attacks). The only Knight that might stand up is the Cerastus Knight-Lancer - it gets to be I5 on the charge, has an Invuln save in close combat and the Wraithknight will be forced to hit it back on 5s. However it still dies just as easy to a Wraithcannons as any other Knight.

The problem is that, even though they cost more than a Wraithknight, no knight can take one down 1v1 without lucky dice. An Invisible Knight Lancer could do the trick, but that is a lot of points. And, why bother with that when Centurions or Devastators in a drop Pod will do the job consistently? A skyhammer grav squad or a Centurion Pod will erase a Wraithknight, and there's no Interceptor Eldar have access to that will help with that. Their only hope is that they go first and psychically protect it, or they put the big boy in reserves. Either way you're forcing your opponent to sacrifice resources to protect his toy, your victory. Grav in Pods is the way to go I'm afraid.

The only real way to do it is invisible biker grav command squad, invisible grav cents, invisible knight lancer (don't know if an invisible knight atropos would work too), maybe a grav devastator squad in skyhammer annihilation force (bonus points if invisible). Basically invisible plus grav is about the only way to deal with these OP units. The problem being WK are at LEAST 100 points under costed and easily spamable to a degree they are very hard to deal with. It is almost impossible to get enough grav to deal with them all and still have the resources to deal with anything else.
And quite frankly Space marines don't have the tools to deal with most threats outside of grav. Most of the upgrades are garbage or lackluster.

 jifel wrote:
The problem is that, even though they cost more than a Wraithknight, no knight can take one down 1v1 without lucky dice. An Invisible Knight Lancer could do the trick, but that is a lot of points. And, why bother with that when Centurions or Devastators in a drop Pod will do the job consistently? A skyhammer grav squad or a Centurion Pod will erase a Wraithknight, and there's no Interceptor Eldar have access to that will help with that. Their only hope is that they go first and psychically protect it, or they put the big boy in reserves. Either way you're forcing your opponent to sacrifice resources to protect his toy, your victory. Grav in Pods is the way to go I'm afraid.

Maybe BA could...they strike at the same time if they charge thanks to Baal.

Yay, we do CC knights better!

But yeah, Grav for dayz. It's what it's there for.

I can tell you from experience that 3 Grav Cents dropping from a Pod kill WKs DEAD. I have yet to have my WK survive a single volley from them. I have to reserve it, but a smart player then puts the Grav Cents in the latter portion of the Drop Pod Assault and I still might get alpha struck.

Marines have THE answer to WKs

Haven't done the maths, but if a wraithknight has a toe in decent cover, I assume those Grav centurions need a buff to either ignore cover and/or re-roll misses to get the job done. So you are probably looking at minimum spending at least as many points on that unit as the Knight itself cost, if not more.

Edit: And if you reserve the knight, it should be a 50/50 chance to get the option to go second. Then their is the random element of reserve rolls, which can be modified, to keep units off the table. I mean on paper to me, it doesn't look nailed on that centurions in a pod will do the job, they are your best hope though as an SM player.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 jifel wrote:
The problem is that, even though they cost more than a Wraithknight, no knight can take one down 1v1 without lucky dice. An Invisible Knight Lancer could do the trick, but that is a lot of points. And, why bother with that when Centurions or Devastators in a drop Pod will do the job consistently? A skyhammer grav squad or a Centurion Pod will erase a Wraithknight, and there's no Interceptor Eldar have access to that will help with that. Their only hope is that they go first and psychically protect it, or they put the big boy in reserves. Either way you're forcing your opponent to sacrifice resources to protect his toy, your victory. Grav in Pods is the way to go I'm afraid.

Maybe BA could...they strike at the same time if they charge thanks to Baal.

Yay, we do CC knights better!

But yeah, Grav for dayz. It's what it's there for.

If BA Marines are charging a WK, and have the +1 I detachment, they they are strength 5 and wounding on 6s. After that, their furious charge goes away and Marines are no longer wounding wraithknights, all the while they are getting hit and stomped on. Not to mention, in order for BA to be assaulting a WK, you need either a very long charge or your opponent wants you to charge them. BA get blasted off the board by scatter lasers while their transports get D'd to death immediately. Now you could make an argument that a Stormraven would be a good unit to deal with a WK with, the problem is that you want more than a normal squad inside, you're talking TH/SS or Death Company with character support. At this point, you units is costing over 400 points for a squad that is, at earliest, getting a turn 3 assault and costs more than the single wraithknight it will kill. And Emperor help you if your opponent has AA ability and kills your transport before you hit him...

Get a really big piece of cheese and put a marine sticker on it

fighting fire with fire

 Mr Morden wrote:
Get a really big piece of cheese and put a marine sticker on it

fighting fire with fire

Make it a nice chunk of mature stilton for added psychological warfare capabilities.

Jifel I meant a knight in the low slot. TACs would never do it