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It's less about how much weight the person in the armour can carry - the armour itself takes care of that - and more about how much weight their transport vehicles, especially fliers, can carry.

leivve wrote:
does power armor have any weakness that, if you figured out, you could use to "reliably" (for lack of a better word) kill a space marine?

You really do need a better word though. Armour or not, the space marine is an inhuman super-soldier with exceptional training, tactical acumen, and decades or centuries of experience. Your weapon is also very important, against a Tau heavy railgun the weak point of power armour is 'anywhere on the body' against a lasgun significantly less so.

In the Blood and Fire novella a sniper is described doing devastating damage to the Celestial Lions, specifically hitting them through the eye lenses. (It is officially credited to an 'ork sniper' but the clear indication is it's a vindicare assassin)

It also makes clear the soft joints are vulnerable, relative to the rest of the armour at least. Dismemberment at the elbow and knee are noted.

You've gotta stab one of these through the eyesockets or the armpits.



Or maybe one of these through the armpits.



....

 TedNugent wrote:
tlDIDr

actually, historically you are better off using blunt weapons against plate. like sledgehammers.

 carldooley wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
tlDIDr

actually, historically you are better off using blunt weapons against plate. like sledgehammers.

Blunt weapons, like the pollaxe in his post?

A sledgehammer is a pretty horrible weapon. It's too heavy and easy to dodge or parry.

The power supply on the space marines back is kind of critical. If it becomes damaged the power armor will shut down. Even tho space marines have unnatural strength for humans, the space marine would have to exert himself to move around in his power armor to the point it would effect his combat effectiveness. The enough times in the fluff books where this has happened, the space marine has removed his power armor so he could be more effective on the battle field.

Its only real weakness is D6s.

even if you managed to poke a hole in there armor in CC they are designed to take that kinda damage and heal or stabilized quickly.

not that the game actually lends it self to it.

realistically the weakest point would be the eyes. or gibbing the bastard with an anti tank missile.

Incidentally, eye "lenses" are a recent invention of the black library authors.

The "eyes" on a Space Marine's helmet were every bit the same material and opaqueness as the rest of the helmet. Power armor has autosenses, which all the new authors seem to forget, and why their shoulders are never in the way.

The autosense system made the entire suit of armor a sensor and the full inside of their helmet was basically a viewscreen of their surroundings.

Shooting through the eye of a marine was no easier than shooting through most of the rest of the armor, and harder than some parts, eg joints, as others have already pointed out.

Or rather, auto sense are the new things, I've seen eyelenses on every single iteration of PA

 Gargantuan wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
tlDIDr

actually, historically you are better off using blunt weapons against plate. like sledgehammers.

Blunt weapons, like the pollaxe in his post?

A sledgehammer is a pretty horrible weapon. It's too heavy and easy to dodge or parry.

You do know that there is a reason the fantasy side of this series is called "Warhammer", right? They were a thing. And they were insanely effective if you had a soldier strong enough to actually wield one. There was no parrying those things.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gargantuan wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
tlDIDr

actually, historically you are better off using blunt weapons against plate. like sledgehammers.

Blunt weapons, like the pollaxe in his post?

A sledgehammer is a pretty horrible weapon. It's too heavy and easy to dodge or parry.

You do know that there is a reason the fantasy side of this series is called "Warhammer", right? They were a thing. And they were insanely effective if you had a soldier strong enough to actually wield one. There was no parrying those things.

Yeah, you have to a huge dude to use a warhammer. They weigh around 1 kg and are maybe 50-60 cm long, Most anti armour weapons are either short and relatively light like warhammers and maces or two handed pole weapons.

But this is incredibly off topic.

 Gargantuan wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gargantuan wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
tlDIDr

actually, historically you are better off using blunt weapons against plate. like sledgehammers.

Blunt weapons, like the pollaxe in his post?

A sledgehammer is a pretty horrible weapon. It's too heavy and easy to dodge or parry.

You do know that there is a reason the fantasy side of this series is called "Warhammer", right? They were a thing. And they were insanely effective if you had a soldier strong enough to actually wield one. There was no parrying those things.

Yeah, you have to a huge dude to use a warhammer. They weigh around 1 kg and are maybe 50-60 cm long, Most anti armour weapons are either short and relatively light like warhammers and maces or two handed pole weapons.

But this is incredibly off topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Incidentally, eye "lenses" are a recent invention of the black library authors.

The "eyes" on a Space Marine's helmet were every bit the same material and opaqueness as the rest of the helmet. Power armor has autosenses, which all the new authors seem to forget, and why their shoulders are never in the way.

The autosense system made the entire suit of armor a sensor and the full inside of their helmet was basically a viewscreen of their surroundings.

Shooting through the eye of a marine was no easier than shooting through most of the rest of the armor, and harder than some parts, eg joints, as others have already pointed out.

I contest this. Lexicanum, I believe, describes the earlier iterations of power armour (Mk II and Mk III) as having fixed helmets and so having that 360 viewscreen to rotate the head within the helmet. Mk IV and onwards had rotating helmets with HUDs.

 Deadshot wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Incidentally, eye "lenses" are a recent invention of the black library authors.

The "eyes" on a Space Marine's helmet were every bit the same material and opaqueness as the rest of the helmet. Power armor has autosenses, which all the new authors seem to forget, and why their shoulders are never in the way.

The autosense system made the entire suit of armor a sensor and the full inside of their helmet was basically a viewscreen of their surroundings.

Shooting through the eye of a marine was no easier than shooting through most of the rest of the armor, and harder than some parts, eg joints, as others have already pointed out.

I contest this. Lexicanum, I believe, describes the earlier iterations of power armour (Mk II and Mk III) as having fixed helmets and so having that 360 viewscreen to rotate the head within the helmet. Mk IV and onwards had rotating helmets with HUDs.

That's oudated old fluff. I haven't seen anything mentioning that the helmets couldn't turn in the Horus Heresy series, and we see MK II and MKIII being posed with their helmets turned sideways.

But you are right about them being lenses. There was even a comic back from the 80's or 90's that showed a space marine's eyes visible behind the lenses on his MK VII armor.

Eye lenses or not, trying to get a hit on those when the Space Marine is still moving and killing your guys is a bit naff. My suggestion that the marine himself is the weak point is still out there. Just lead him into a standard 10 kg anti-tank mine - the PA might come down unharmed but the marine is jelly.

Spetulhu wrote:
Eye lenses or not, trying to get a hit on those when the Space Marine is still moving and killing your guys is a bit naff. My suggestion that the marine himself is the weak point is still out there. Just lead him into a standard 10 kg anti-tank mine - the PA might come down unharmed but the marine is jelly.

yeah, except for the genetically denser skin and metal bones, that's totally right.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Incidentally, eye "lenses" are a recent invention of the black library authors.

The "eyes" on a Space Marine's helmet were every bit the same material and opaqueness as the rest of the helmet. Power armor has autosenses, which all the new authors seem to forget, and why their shoulders are never in the way.

The autosense system made the entire suit of armor a sensor and the full inside of their helmet was basically a viewscreen of their surroundings.

Shooting through the eye of a marine was no easier than shooting through most of the rest of the armor, and harder than some parts, eg joints, as others have already pointed out.

Thank you! I'm not the only one who remembers this. As soon as a Space Marine puts his helmet on he stops seeing with his eyes and hearing with his ears, as everything is fed directly into his brain via the autosenses. Also, what happened to the auto-reactive shoulder pads, the ones that adjusted their position depending on where the Space Marine's face was pointing?

The eye lenses of a space marine are weak points in the armor, In the Canon, the Celestial Lions were being picked of from LasSniper fire going through there lenses. If you like to know more, google Celestial Lions and read there Lore.

IacobusIgnavus wrote:
The eye lenses of a space marine are weak points in the armor, In the Canon, the Celestial Lions were being picked of from LasSniper fire going through there lenses. If you like to know more, google Celestial Lions and read there Lore.

This is 40K. There is absolutely no such thing as "canon". It's just "fluff". Which is contradictory, sometimes intentionally misleading, written by a large group of people under absolutely no requirement to agree with one another, and free to be discarded, or accepted, by each individual reader as they see fit.

Maybe it was a Vindicare. Maybe it was an Ork. Maybe it was an Eldar. It could be any number of possible things.

I feel like the best way to fatally wound a Space Marine would be to shoot him in the lower abdomen, above the crotch. The power armour isn't the thickest there, it isn't protected by Black Carapace + ribcage, and there are a lot of important arteries and organs there

 TheCloverLord wrote:
I feel like the best way to fatally wound a Space Marine would be to shoot him in the lower abdomen, above the crotch. The power armour isn't the thickest there, it isn't protected by Black Carapace + ribcage, and there are a lot of important arteries and organs there

They can grow instant scar tissue and can survive total bisection. The way to kill a space marine is to aim for the head or neck, like a classic zombie.

Uh, last nigt Space Marines had rapidly clotting blood and toughened skin, now they can apparently scar instantly. What will they come up with tomorrow, is a mystery, my guess is invulnerability or something

 Bobthehero wrote:
Uh, last nigt Space Marines had rapidly clotting blood and toughened skin, now they can apparently scar instantly. What will they come up with tomorrow, is a mystery, my guess is invulnerability or something

The Larraman's Organ has been responsible for instant scar tissue for years from the Codex.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Uh, last nigt Space Marines had rapidly clotting blood and toughened skin, now they can apparently scar instantly. What will they come up with tomorrow, is a mystery, my guess is invulnerability or something

The Larraman's Organ has been responsible for instant scar tissue for years from the Codex.

^^^^
I can agree to this.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Uh, last nigt Space Marines had rapidly clotting blood and toughened skin, now they can apparently scar instantly. What will they come up with tomorrow, is a mystery, my guess is invulnerability or something

Wolverine? Deadpool? Or maybe they will pull a Dragon Ball: http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/strip-35.html .

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Torus wrote:
Well considering that power armour is pretty damn heavy and the same material is used throughout wouldn't excess trauma to the head potentially cause the helmet to snap the marine’s neck, biological upgrades or not.

Taking this from the game theorist's channel on YouTube when they were discussing the weaknesses of master chiefs armour

That video was mindnumbingly stupid and absolutely nothing from it should be taken seriously. Not only did it have a painful lack of understanding of armor, it also completely ignored all Halo lore and took game mechanics seriously.

I remember Game Theory's video where he spewed bs over bs, with the crown jewel being him using the fact Kali was a goddess associated with sex to push his argument… (hint: it's just false). So I am not surprised. This guy is giving a perfectly valid field of science a bad name. Nash would not be proud.


Anyway, we all know what is the weakness of power armor: it does not prevent people from talking to the space marine inside. And we all know the urban legend: if you say “Join us” with a creepy whispering voice to a space marine 3 times, he joins Chaos.
Thanksfull you can take the SoB upgrade to fix this .

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCloverLord wrote:
I feel like the best way to fatally wound a Space Marine would be to shoot him in the lower abdomen, above the crotch. The power armour isn't the thickest there, it isn't protected by Black Carapace + ribcage, and there are a lot of important arteries and organs there

They can grow instant scar tissue and can survive total bisection. The way to kill a space marine is to aim for the head or neck, like a classic zombie.

Depends. The old tau codex had space marines who had giant holes in their chest via plasma. They were still alive, but they would not survive, and the apocathary who the story was told from was just gathering something from them before they died. So blowing up the chest or abdomen seems to work alight. And if they do get blown in half, even if they don't die, they will be rendered useless for the battle.


So plasma, plasma is the way to kill marines.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
They can grow instant scar tissue and can survive total bisection. The way to kill a space marine is to aim for the head or neck, like a classic zombie.

Depends. The old tau codex had space marines who had giant holes in their chest via plasma. They were still alive, but they would not survive, and the apocathary who the story was told from was just gathering something from them before they died. So blowing up the chest or abdomen seems to work alight. And if they do get blown in half, even if they don't die, they will be rendered useless for the battle.


So plasma, plasma is the way to kill marines.

Well obviously he doesn't mean that's the only way to kill a space marine, it's just a more reliable way. Astartes have secondary hearts so if you manage to blow a hole through the power armour and take them both out, chances are the marine will die.

But they are incredibly tough, like Orks are, so they can survive even the most horrific injuries. There's an IG quote in the 3ed codex (I think it was 3ed) about decapitating and then burning "dead" Orks to make sure they stayed dead. Marines are the same - if they can be recovered, they can probably be saved and put back into action in some form or another (as a dreadnought, if need be).

Found the story in question (or more accurately, stole it from the B&CS board because I;m too lazy to type it out myself).

The Hammers of Dorn had always followed the Codex Astartes to the letter, but in this case, conventional planetfall tactics had turned out to be ill-advised. This was a massacre, nothing less. Apothecary Antaloch edged over to a fallen battle-brother. The dying warrior had a hole in his chest that Antaloch could fit his fist through. Releasing the armour’s cuirass, he plunged his reductor deep into his comrade’s neck. A thick churning sound grumbled under the roar of battle as Antaloch extracted the progenoid glands and stowed them with the dozens of others he had flasked thus far. The Apothecary was intoning the last rites when there was a crack of impact; a xenos warsuit thumped down in front of Antaloch and pressed the muzzle of its energy rifle to his helmet. The Apothecary froze. The alien assassin filled his vision, statuesque and lethal. The figure would have dwarfed a Terminator. ‘It is unclear,’ stated the giant in stilted Imperial Gothic, its hidden speakers uncannily like a real voice. ‘You must know this one does not live, ministratormedic- equivalent.’ ‘Aye,’ growled Antaloch, ‘and yet his due must be given.’ ‘Despite the likelihood of sustaining lethal damage yourself.’ ‘Just so,’ said the Apothecary. He fought the urge to cover the precious geneseed flasks. A moment of stillness passed.

‘Your stance is defensive, yet not indicative of self-preservation,’ stated the warsuit. Before he could reply, bolter shells detonated between the giant’s jump engines. Its shoulder-mounted blaster whirred around, obliterating the Space Marine running in behind it. Its energy rifle never moved from Antaloch’s helm. ‘A theory. During the death ritual, you recover a substance and/or information code that your warrior caste deems vital.’ Antaloch stared up at the towering figure, but said nothing. ‘Interesting,’ said the xenos giant. ‘Proceed then, by all means.’ Raising its rifle in a brief salute, the battlesuit boosted up into the skies on twin tongues of flame. Blinking in disbelief, the Apothecary voxed, ‘Captain Rumann? When this is over, we need to talk.’

Give and interesting look at the tau mindset as well, and one of the reasons it's stated that the SMs who have fought the tau came to respect them. Not like them, but respect them.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
. There's an IG quote in the 3ed codex (I think it was 3ed) about decapitating and then burning "dead" Orks to make sure they stayed dead.

The IG burned the Orks to get rid of the spores

A couple of things that spring out at me:

No "shiny" eye lens won't reflect laser botls or not enough of them to matter. Two issue here. First is unless this battle is taking place inside a clean room there's going to be enough dust and other gunk to affect the reflectivity of the lenes. Second, in real life reflectors for high powered lasers are polished to an incrdibel degree but still have to have a strong active cooling system incorporated into them because at the microscopic level they aren't perfectly smooth and that allows the laser to begin heating them.

Explosives inflicting concussive damage to internal organs on marines is possible but is going to be mitigated to a larg extent by the black carapace and other bio-augmentations. Same almost certainly goes for brain injuries as the marine has cushioning to limit how hard the brain can smack against the skull which is a major hard limit for protective technologies in real life.

The soft areas of the armor are going to to almost certainly have a laminate design that incorporates a ballistic cloth layer (think Kevlar) to stop slashing attacks and typical bullet calibers and a high strength ultra fine metal mesh to protect against piercing attacks.

Snaping the neck is going to be incredibly difficult because one, it's a frickin' marine and 2. The suit neck almost certainly incorporates a combination of sero-limiters which affect how quickly the helmet can move on any axis (fast enough to allow freedom of movement but too slow for neck snaping) backed up by physical stops that prevent the helmet from being moved past a point that could injure the neck.


All in all these guys are pretty well protected but fortunately, there's enough super science and xeno tech among the other sides that it even outs.

Where these guys are truly terrifying is when they are suppressing a human population without access to heavy weaponry or large quantities of high explosives. Realistically, these guys are going to be immune to everything that your typical mob can throw at them.

-Maxgraity.