Power armor weaknesses?

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**Ir0njack**

On the note of the gorget of MK7 being a death sentence via shrapnel, most shrapnel is delivered via artillery. This means the shell must impact then detonate, from that point the fragments fan out and up so the gorget would actually protect against that. The only actual weapon I've seen would be out of the norm of that would be the Tau's air frag launcher. This is of course only talking about the gorget. The armored skirts around the marines boots would be horrible to have if he were to step on a mine.

Then again the only marines I could see trudging through bombardments and minefields would be deathguard and to a lesser extent iron hands and iron warriors.

**SirSertile**

godking wrote:
leivve wrote:
As the title says, does power armor have any weakness that, if you figured out, you could use to "reliably" (for lack of a better word) kill a space marine? Someone told me their eye lenses are a major weakness, but I don't know if that's just speculation or actual canon.
Powersource.

If the powersource of power armour is destroyed you are essentially dealing with an enhanced human lugging +1 ton of armour around.

Still dangerous but greatly reduced in effectiveness.

In one of the Alpha Legion books, it describes a legionnaire detaching a marine's power pack and beating him over the head with it. You are right about the power source.

**Wyzilla**

maxgravity wrote:
A couple of things that spring out at me:

No "shiny" eye lens won't reflect laser botls or not enough of them to matter. Two issue here. First is unless this battle is taking place inside a clean room there's going to be enough dust and other gunk to affect the reflectivity of the lenes. Second, in real life reflectors for high powered lasers are polished to an incrdibel degree but still have to have a strong active cooling system incorporated into them because at the microscopic level they aren't perfectly smooth and that allows the laser to begin heating them.

Explosives inflicting concussive damage to internal organs on marines is possible but is going to be mitigated to a larg extent by the black carapace and other bio-augmentations. Same almost certainly goes for brain injuries as the marine has cushioning to limit how hard the brain can smack against the skull which is a major hard limit for protective technologies in real life.

The soft areas of the armor are going to to almost certainly have a laminate design that incorporates a ballistic cloth layer (think Kevlar) to stop slashing attacks and typical bullet calibers and a high strength ultra fine metal mesh to protect against piercing attacks.

Snaping the neck is going to be incredibly difficult because one, it's a frickin' marine and 2. The suit neck almost certainly incorporates a combination of sero-limiters which affect how quickly the helmet can move on any axis (fast enough to allow freedom of movement but too slow for neck snaping) backed up by physical stops that prevent the helmet from being moved past a point that could injure the neck.

All in all these guys are pretty well protected but fortunately, there's enough super science and xeno tech among the other sides that it even outs.

Where these guys are truly terrifying is when they are suppressing a human population without access to heavy weaponry or large quantities of high explosives. Realistically, these guys are going to be immune to everything that your typical mob can throw at them.

-Maxgraity.

There is no true "soft" armor. The ribbing lacking ceramite/plasteel composite plates is still made of metal muscle fibers. Stabbing a blade there shouldn't do anything unless it's one of the magical monomolecular knives.

**EngulfedObject**

Bobthehero wrote:
EngulfedObject wrote:
. There's an IG quote in the 3ed codex (I think it was 3ed) about decapitating and then burning "dead" Orks to make sure they stayed dead.

The IG burned the Orks to get rid of the spores

No, that particular quote/passage also referred to destroying the Ork's organs to prevent it from recovering, not to the spores - though of course the spores are a problem.

**Tuppy**

Hello!

Didn’t want to start new topic. So decide to ask question here.

Me and my friends have a dispute if space marine has any movement limitations in his power armor.
Ill explain, I’ve watched new Eternal Crusade game, where SM characters rolling on the floor and move like they are made of 1 plastic piece. It looks bad, but I heard an opinion that it’s the way it should be.

Well, often in books it’s said that PA is like “second skin that moves with all the speed and precision of the Battle-Brother's own body” and SM move freely.
At the same time when PA is described authors note mechanical noises of suit’s actuators and fibre bundles.

I checked how SMarines move in media.
In Space marine, Ultramarines and EC titles SM moves like regular person.
And DoW 1-2 Space Marines move slightly mechanical.

So, what do you think, when marine runs fast or jumps high, does he move like a regular quick human guy or momentum and work of mechanisms in his suit should have the influence on his animations?
Links to canon would be appreciated.

Thanks and sorry for my English.

**Desubot**

Imho it they will be able to run jump around and all that fun stuff but should be very hard to stop with all that mass and momentum.

with enough force they should be able to change angles and stuff but i expect a lot of skidding.

edit: or they more commonly move at a brisk pace like in gears of war.

**Psienesis**

The Black Carapace of a Space Marine turns his armor into the oft-referenced second skin. In power armor, a Marine can move as quickly and gracefully as he would naked. He is not hampered or hindered by his armor, through the interface of the Black Carapace, in any way, unlike pretty much anyone else (non-Astartes) wearing power armor.

**Wyzilla**

Tuppy wrote:
Hello!

Didn’t want to start new topic. So decide to ask question here.

Me and my friends have a dispute if space marine has any movement limitations in his power armor.
Ill explain, I’ve watched new Eternal Crusade game, where SM characters rolling on the floor and move like they are made of 1 plastic piece. It looks bad, but I heard an opinion that it’s the way it should be.

Well, often in books it’s said that PA is like “second skin that moves with all the speed and precision of the Battle-Brother's own body” and SM move freely.
At the same time when PA is described authors note mechanical noises of suit’s actuators and fibre bundles.

I checked how SMarines move in media.
In Space marine, Ultramarines and EC titles SM moves like regular person.
And DoW 1-2 Space Marines move slightly mechanical.

So, what do you think, when marine runs fast or jumps high, does he move like a regular quick human guy or momentum and work of mechanisms in his suit should have the influence on his animations?
Links to canon would be appreciated.

Thanks and sorry for my English.

Power armor has zero limitations for movement. The only thing that is slightly contested is jump height, as I've seen it go both ways (power armor increases your strength, therefore you jump farther, versus power armor is heavy as feth, you ain't going anywhere).

**Mr Nobody**

I know it's not power armour, but it does help demonstrate the mobility of medieval armor.

You can definitely roll, tumble and move with surprising versatility, but you won't be doing ballet. As for power armour, the weight is not an issue anymore, but that machinery definitely adds bulk compared to simple plate.

**ProwlerPC**

I like simple Ork logic for solving these problems. Crude but effective. Tie an explosive rocket to the end of a stick like a hammer the hit the marine anywhere with it.

**Co'tor Shas**

Mr Nobody wrote:
I know it's not power armour, but it does help demonstrate the mobility of medieval armor.

Spoiler:

You can definitely roll, tumble and move with surprising versatility, but you won't be doing ballet. As for power armour, the weight is not an issue anymore, but that machinery definitely adds bulk compared to simple plate.

Bulkiness would seem to be the main problem with power armour. It is very thick.

**Desubot**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mr Nobody wrote:
I know it's not power armour, but it does help demonstrate the mobility of medieval armor.

Spoiler:

You can definitely roll, tumble and move with surprising versatility, but you won't be doing ballet. As for power armour, the weight is not an issue anymore, but that machinery definitely adds bulk compared to simple plate.

Bulkiness would seem to be the main problem with power armour. It is very thick.

IIRC they are all articulated and adjust using metal muscles and servos and other sci fi sounding things.

**EnTyme**

Wyzilla wrote:

Power armor has zero limitations for movement. The only thing that is slightly contested is jump height, as I've seen it go both ways (power armor increases your strength, therefore you jump farther, versus power armor is heavy as feth, you ain't going anywhere).

If this is the case, why is there a need for the scouts to wear smaller armor? Just for the lower profile? I've read countless sources on power armor, and the fluff does support your statement, but I always felt like this was a case of "ZOMG! tHE SPEHSS MEHREENS IZ TOTES THE GREETEST EVAR!" It makes zero sense from a physics and mechanics standpoint. I'm not saying that the Space Marines would be slow and clunky in the armor, just less maneuverable. I think the Space Marine game (Captain Titus ftw!) showed a more realistic representation of the way a SM would move. Captain Titus wasn't sluggish, you could definitely tell that his armor had some weight to it.

**Desubot**

EnTyme wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

Power armor has zero limitations for movement. The only thing that is slightly contested is jump height, as I've seen it go both ways (power armor increases your strength, therefore you jump farther, versus power armor is heavy as feth, you ain't going anywhere).

If this is the case, why is there a need for the scouts to wear smaller armor? Just for the lower profile? I've read countless sources on power armor, and the fluff does support your statement, but I always felt like this was a case of "ZOMG! tHE SPEHSS MEHREENS IZ TOTES THE GREETEST EVAR!" It makes zero sense from a physics and mechanics standpoint. I'm not saying that the Space Marines would be slow and clunky in the armor, just less maneuverable. I think the Space Marine game (Captain Titus ftw!) showed a more realistic representation of the way a SM would move. Captain Titus wasn't sluggish, you could definitely tell that his armor had some weight to it.

power armor is expensive and hard to make

why give it to the grunts (newby scouts)?

Its why most scouts go into devestator squads to keep them further back once they get promoted.

**Wyzilla**

EnTyme wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

Power armor has zero limitations for movement. The only thing that is slightly contested is jump height, as I've seen it go both ways (power armor increases your strength, therefore you jump farther, versus power armor is heavy as feth, you ain't going anywhere).

If this is the case, why is there a need for the scouts to wear smaller armor? Just for the lower profile? I've read countless sources on power armor, and the fluff does support your statement, but I always felt like this was a case of "ZOMG! tHE SPEHSS MEHREENS IZ TOTES THE GREETEST EVAR!" It makes zero sense from a physics and mechanics standpoint. I'm not saying that the Space Marines would be slow and clunky in the armor, just less maneuverable. I think the Space Marine game (Captain Titus ftw!) showed a more realistic representation of the way a SM would move. Captain Titus wasn't sluggish, you could definitely tell that his armor had some weight to it.

The job of Scouts is infiltration and sniping. You need training to be stealthy in power armor, such as the Raven Guard's shadow walking technique. Although there honestly isn't a real purpose to them, as the Legions had power armor equivalents that also wore cameoline cloaks.

**Furyou Miko**

EnTyme wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

Power armor has zero limitations for movement. The only thing that is slightly contested is jump height, as I've seen it go both ways (power armor increases your strength, therefore you jump farther, versus power armor is heavy as feth, you ain't going anywhere).

If this is the case, why is there a need for the scouts to wear smaller armor? Just for the lower profile? I've read countless sources on power armor, and the fluff does support your statement, but I always felt like this was a case of "ZOMG! tHE SPEHSS MEHREENS IZ TOTES THE GREETEST EVAR!" It makes zero sense from a physics and mechanics standpoint. I'm not saying that the Space Marines would be slow and clunky in the armor, just less maneuverable. I think the Space Marine game (Captain Titus ftw!) showed a more realistic representation of the way a SM would move. Captain Titus wasn't sluggish, you could definitely tell that his armor had some weight to it.

Scouts wear Carapace rather than Power Armour for one reason, and one reason only: They do not have the Black Carapace yet. While a Marine can do ballet or whatever in his power armour, a Scout would not be able to make the same maneuvers, because he'd be relying on a pressure-sensitive suit like the ones worn by Inquisitors and Sororitas, which don't provide the same response speed or tactile sensation that a Carapace-equipped suit of power armour does (the response speed difference is likely milliseconds, but it's enough to count).

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Did someone mention quicksand? Quicksand are definitely a place where power armor is a detriment!

**Bobthehero**

As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

**Desubot**

Bobthehero wrote:
As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

Or they go into a very long coma.

I can imagine a thunder hawk trying to crane game a bunch of lost marines with a magnet out of quicksand or the sea

**Spetulhu**

Bobthehero wrote:
As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

Which is one of many reasons why a marine would be removed as a casualty on the tabletop (losing your last wound doesn't necessarily mean you're dead, just out of the fight for now). Losing power would hinder movement so the marine likely falls back in order to preserve a Chapter asset (himself) and allowing his squad to continue at top speed. Same if he loses some special equipment like a bike or jump pack. Getting stuck under a tank would suck even for a marine - I'd imagine one "killed" in a vehicle explosion might just be knocked out or stuck under the rolled-over hull.

It would actually make for a pretty good short story. The victorious force slowly going through the battlefield, collecting their own and trying to avoid getting ambushed by the last few living Space Marines that for some reason didn't manage to fall back when their side was broken.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Bobthehero wrote:
As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

That's actually precisely why it's an horrible fate. What, that does not seem bad to you? Living for many hundreds of years (marine longevity) trapped into a quicksand, with literally nothing to see, nothing to hear, and perpetually eating and drinking your own feces and urine? Seems like hell to me. Seems worse than dreadnought entombment.

**dusara217**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

That's actually precisely why it's an horrible fate. What, that does not seem bad to you? Living for many hundreds of years (marine longevity) trapped into a quicksand, with literally nothing to see, nothing to hear, and perpetually eating and drinking your own feces and urine? Seems like hell to me. Seems worse than dreadnought entombment.

It's more likely that the Marines have some kind of IV that puts any remaining nutrients and calories back into the Marine's body.

**Deadshot**

dusara217 wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Bobthehero wrote:
As much as I am bothered with the seemingly weakness-less of power armor, I can't agree with you on that one, sure you'll sink, but armor is sealed and stuff, so you won't suffocate and you wont be crushed by the weight of the sand. At worst you'll stay stuck there and starve (but apparently PA recycles your gak, so whatever), but otherwise, there's a good chance you'll survive.

That's actually precisely why it's an horrible fate. What, that does not seem bad to you? Living for many hundreds of years (marine longevity) trapped into a quicksand, with literally nothing to see, nothing to hear, and perpetually eating and drinking your own feces and urine? Seems like hell to me. Seems worse than dreadnought entombment.

It's more likely that the Marines have some kind of IV that puts any remaining nutrients and calories back into the Marine's body.

They can self-induce a coma indefinitely. Plus they still have vox, they could easily just radio for help.

**Otto Weston**

If I was able to pick the time and place to shoot someone with power armour, I would always attack from above.

Shots from above are more likely to punch into the weakspots between the pauldrons/chestpiece or chestpiece/helmet (neck area) and if the person looks up at you you have a chance to go through their eyepieces/under the chin too.
In addition, from that angle any penetrating shot is more likely to hit internal organs.

Shooting from above is even more deadly because you can put more shots on the head without the Pauldrons getting in the way (which is really the point of them, for Space Marines to use their shoulders to protect their head from horizontal shots).

It's not perfect but I believe that's the best way to deal with Power Armour and therefore is its greatest weakness.