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2016/05/25 14:36:35
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
PsychoticStorm wrote: If CB releases extra bits in boxes, beyond increasing the price of the box (slightly) it will also bring in complains that people need to buy several of the same box in order to have what they want ending up with extra unwanted models.
Yeah...no, that's the complaints NOW.
If I want to field multiple Grunts with HMGs, I get stuck with duplicate LGL+Rifle, Sniper Rifle, and HFT models.
If I want to field multiple Grunts with Rifles, I get stuck with duplicate Marauders with HFTs(whose brilliant idea was THAT), duplicate Minuteman with LFTs(again, who thought that was a good idea? We need to have words about WYSIWYG), and duplicate Foxtrots.
It is not an assumption but the reality.
Yeah, that's bull.
What Knight was saying(or at least the way I'm reading it, feel free to correct me Knight) is that if they added extra bits he'd be more inclined to purchase several of the same box as he could use the alternate arms to make sure he had variations on the same model.
To use the examples I gave above?
If the Marauder came with an alternate arm set for a Molotok(which is, FYI, what was INITIALLY to be in the USARF box. You know how I know? Because all the promo material included within the USARF Army Pack has the Marauder artwork of him touting a Molotok instead of the stupid HFT)--boom, I've got an alternate model from the same box.
If the Minuteman came with an alternate set of arms for a Rifle or AP Rifle--boom, I've got an alternate model from the same box. Hell, they could even make it replacing just a single LFT arm with a Missile Launcher since the ML profile ditches just one LFT for the ML.
If the Foxtrot came with an alternate set of arms(let's say Sniper Rifle for a laugh, since again that's what was INITIALLY to be in the USARF box because all the promo material and even the little fluff story about the Navajo Outpost under attack had the Foxtrot with a Sniper Rifle)--boom, I've got an alternate model from the same box.
It doesn't even have to include alternate heads to make that work.
If the Grunts SWC box included an alternate set of arms for each SWC model to have a Rifle or a different special? That'd go a long way for an army that can and will field duplicates.
2016/05/25 14:43:41
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Kanluwen wrote: People already do essentially this, it's just they use Shaekonnit instead of splurging for an extra box.
I was wishing/thinking that I could get two different poses for the same profile rather than just duplicated models. Conversions are always a possibility but they're not easy as it is with plastic. CB did make a leap with Icestorm as their models are easier to put together than before. However I'm always wishing for at least partial customization that I got with GW models (next to the assembly plans, those are just superb).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/25 14:52:49
2016/05/25 14:52:09
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Kanluwen wrote: People already do essentially this, it's just they use Shaekonnit instead of splurging for an extra box.
I was wishing/thinking that I could get two different poses for the same profile rather than just duplicated models. Conversions are always a possibility but they're not easy as it is with plastic. CB did make a leap with Icestorm as their models are easier to put together than before. However I'm always wishing for at least partial customization that I got with GW models (next to the plans, those are just superb).
Fair enough.
Another thing I'm a big advocate for is the individual SWCs having an alt male/female build.
To use the Grunt example?
The Grunt with HFT can be built as a LGL+Rifle.
The Grunt with HMG can be built as a Sniper Rifle.
The Grunt with Sniper Rifle can be built as a HMG.
The Grunt with LGL+Rifle can be built as HFT.
2016/05/25 15:18:38
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
If only it was that simple, seriously how much you expect this "simple" change would increase the boxes price and what do you think it would take as an extra effort for it to happen?
2016/05/25 15:24:02
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
PsychoticStorm wrote: If only it was that simple, seriously how much you expect this "simple" change would increase the boxes price
Given that they're already priced on the high side of things before discount retailers are taken into account, and their growth every year has been suspiciously regular?
They don't NEED to increase the box's prices that much. They can just alter trade agreements to reduce the discount that retailers can do(PP just did it, so why not CB?).
and what do you think it would take as an extra effort for it to happen?
Given that they've shifted to purely digital now, not as much as you might think.
It's a few extra minutes, at best, in the final design process. Especially if they go into it with the mindset of "How can we make this model work for two different profiles?".
You gave an example on the official forums of Sniper Rifles on Light Infantry. With the way firing models are designed now with one weapon holding arm with the other arm not having a hand, as the hand is sculpted on the weapon? It just requires designing two weapon holding arms and ensuring that they can match up.
2016/05/25 16:05:16
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Anyway I am not sure what the comment on trade agreements is trying to achieve, PP did it to stop online retailers to sell at a bigger discount not for PP to get more money.
Purely digital sculpting does not mean that the models pose must not be made taking into account both alternative parts, a sniper pose might not work with a hacker for example, but this is little things, extra sculptors work were they could be doing something else, extra 3D prints, extra moulds.
But beyond the above, the extra parts need extra casting time, extra space to put them in, extra time to be packed (they also increase the chance of something been mispacked, but that is a side issue) all of the above can be used for an entirely other thing.
And after all the above, if you really want to go into the "example I gave", ok then, if the sniper rifle was interchangeable with the HMG and player A played with both he would complaign needing two boxes to field both, if the HMG was interchangeable with the combi light shotgun player B who wants the LT, Haris, specialist option will complain, likewise if number 2 and combi were interchangeable and so on and so on for ever.
It is not an easy task to make extra bits and you will not make everybody happy by doing so.
And I guarantee you if the HMG was in and the combi was out somebody would complain that he cannot run a haris team, if the ahcker was out somebody would complain about the hacker not be there and so on.
2016/05/25 16:10:53
Subject: Re:The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
I think Kan is suggesting that they might not be growing? (or growth figure is innacurate?)
Anyway.. quite like the miniatures themselves, want to get the guy with the raised visor and paint up in some kind of jungle-camo paint scheme, even though I don't actually collect Pan O!
A company growing is not suspicious.
A company maintaining such regular growth for how many years straight is.
And I don't mean "Companies can't grow multiple years", I mean "Companies showing almost exactly the same numbers for growth" is the suspicious part.
Anyway I am not sure what the comment on trade agreements is trying to achieve, PP did it to stop online retailers to sell at a bigger discount not for PP to get more money.
PP did it, ostensibly, to protect the "little guy" in the form of independent hobby shops by making it so online retailers cannot sell at a bigger discount than the independents could.
Had nothing to do with PP getting more money on the face of it.
Purely digital sculpting does not mean that the models pose must not be made taking into account both alternative parts, a sniper pose might not work with a hacker for example, but this is little things, extra sculptors work were they could be doing something else, extra 3D prints, extra moulds.
But beyond the above, the extra parts need extra casting time, extra space to put them in, extra time to be packed (they also increase the chance of something been mispacked, but that is a side issue) all of the above can be used for an entirely other thing.
If the company is so hard up that designing a second weapon arm to match with the existing poses they already planned with a box, then they need to rethink their release patterns.
If they're that concerned that adding a second weapon arm or head to a model's little baggy(remember that each model is bagged separately within a box) is going to add too much extra time to be packed or mispackaged, then they might need to rethink how they do things there as well.
And after all the above, if you really want to go into the "example I gave", ok then, if the sniper rifle was interchangeable with the HMG and player A played with both he would complaign needing two boxes to field both, if the HMG was interchangeable with the combi light shotgun player B who wants the LT, Haris, specialist option will complain, likewise if number 2 and combi were interchangeable and so on and so on for ever.
It is not an easy task to make extra bits and you will not make everybody happy by doing so.
I don't think you quite understand what "alternate" means, nor that you've even really read the way that I explained my own vision for alternate parts. You've been obsessing over this idea of "Alternate parts will mean complaints!".
It's not that the Sniper Rifle would be interchangeable with the HMG, it's that the Sniper Rifle model would come with an alternate set of arms to be fielded as a Combi Rifle+LSG, the HMG would come with an alternate set of arms to be fielded as CR+LSG, the Hacker would come with an alternate head, the Boarding Shotgun would come with a CR+LSG etc etc.
And I guarantee you if the HMG was in and the combi was out somebody would complain that he cannot run a haris team, if the ahcker was out somebody would complain about the hacker not be there and so on.
Of course someone would complain about the combi being out, but you know what?
The complaint would be valid. The profile would have been sidelined for the #2 profile(which why does he have a Boarding Shotgun? What was the point of that decision? And why does he have D-Charges--which the Hacker is actively deploying?) or the MSR or the Hacker(tiny gun makes another appearance, so that's worth mentioning).
It's not like they do 3 model blisters anymore, which is where the CR+LSG Bagh Maris should be. Not within the box.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: I think Kan is suggesting that they might not be growing? (or growth figure is innacurate?)
Nay, I'm just suggesting that it's strange when they bring up roughly the same figures for growth each year.
There should have come a point in the ten-ish(?) years that they've been active for Infinity where things got static or even possibly declined.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/25 16:29:02
2016/05/25 16:37:44
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Not really, the company is still young enouph and small enouph, Infinity is growing in a logical way, it has yet to reach saturation point by far.
So your solution is for each model to have all the loadout options as alternative parts? beyond the logistics nightmare, I doubt anybody would pay twice to price (maybe more?) for it.
2016/05/25 16:43:47
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
A company growing is not suspicious.
A company maintaining such regular growth for how many years straight is.
And I don't mean "Companies can't grow multiple years", I mean "Companies showing almost exactly the same numbers for growth" is the suspicious part.
Anyway I am not sure what the comment on trade agreements is trying to achieve, PP did it to stop online retailers to sell at a bigger discount not for PP to get more money.
PP did it, ostensibly, to protect the "little guy" in the form of independent hobby shops by making it so online retailers cannot sell at a bigger discount than the independents could.
Had nothing to do with PP getting more money on the face of it.
Purely digital sculpting does not mean that the models pose must not be made taking into account both alternative parts, a sniper pose might not work with a hacker for example, but this is little things, extra sculptors work were they could be doing something else, extra 3D prints, extra moulds.
But beyond the above, the extra parts need extra casting time, extra space to put them in, extra time to be packed (they also increase the chance of something been mispacked, but that is a side issue) all of the above can be used for an entirely other thing.
If the company is so hard up that designing a second weapon arm to match with the existing poses they already planned with a box, then they need to rethink their release patterns.
If they're that concerned that adding a second weapon arm or head to a model's little baggy(remember that each model is bagged separately within a box) is going to add too much extra time to be packed or mispackaged, then they might need to rethink how they do things there as well.
And after all the above, if you really want to go into the "example I gave", ok then, if the sniper rifle was interchangeable with the HMG and player A played with both he would complaign needing two boxes to field both, if the HMG was interchangeable with the combi light shotgun player B who wants the LT, Haris, specialist option will complain, likewise if number 2 and combi were interchangeable and so on and so on for ever.
It is not an easy task to make extra bits and you will not make everybody happy by doing so.
I don't think you quite understand what "alternate" means, nor that you've even really read the way that I explained my own vision for alternate parts. You've been obsessing over this idea of "Alternate parts will mean complaints!".
It's not that the Sniper Rifle would be interchangeable with the HMG, it's that the Sniper Rifle model would come with an alternate set of arms to be fielded as a Combi Rifle+LSG, the HMG would come with an alternate set of arms to be fielded as CR+LSG, the Hacker would come with an alternate head, the Boarding Shotgun would come with a CR+LSG etc etc.
And I guarantee you if the HMG was in and the combi was out somebody would complain that he cannot run a haris team, if the ahcker was out somebody would complain about the hacker not be there and so on.
Of course someone would complain about the combi being out, but you know what?
The complaint would be valid. The profile would have been sidelined for the #2 profile(which why does he have a Boarding Shotgun? What was the point of that decision? And why does he have D-Charges--which the Hacker is actively deploying?) or the MSR or the Hacker(tiny gun makes another appearance, so that's worth mentioning).
It's not like they do 3 model blisters anymore, which is where the CR+LSG Bagh Maris should be. Not within the box.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: I think Kan is suggesting that they might not be growing? (or growth figure is innacurate?)
Nay, I'm just suggesting that it's strange when they bring up roughly the same figures for growth each year.
There should have come a point in the ten-ish(?) years that they've been active for Infinity where things got static or even possibly declined.
The draconian mods usually step in at this point...
Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing
2016/05/25 16:49:40
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
PsychoticStorm wrote: Not really, the company is still young enouph and small enouph, Infinity is growing in a logical way, it has yet to reach saturation point by far.
A "logical way" is that the growth wouldn't be consistent from year to year. It would vary based upon offerings, stockists, etc.
So your solution is for each model to have all the loadout options as alternative parts? beyond the logistics nightmare, I doubt anybody would pay twice to price (maybe more?) for it.
What makes you think that adding a second weapon arm to each model in a box would equate to doubling the price of a unit box?
2016/05/25 16:53:06
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Okay, the Bagh Maris have thwir fins. Great! Overall, I like the set.so, I'll probably end up buying it. Is the old HMG Bagh Mari still in production? You could always use him to cover the gap in your list. I suppose a nice feature of them being so similar to the Bolts and the Fusiliers is that arm swapping between them all should be pretty easy. You should be able to make one of the women into an HMG using the HMG arms from the Fusiliers SWC box. Of course, that's assuming that CB isn't going to release a unique HMG Bagh Mari in a blister.
I was looking at the Infinity downloads and it looks like they've released a new version of the N3 Human Sphere and profile PDFs (I mean since they did the recent N3 update). Did they fix some typos or something?
2016/05/27 08:24:36
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Typoes I think. The MO lists said you only take 1 Teuton and the CHA wording said Isobel could only be in a Vol Link team if a Grey was in there too. Stuff like that I reckon.
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
2016/05/27 14:33:49
Subject: Re:The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
Xeodron Batroids. The Onyx Contact Force's heavy hitters.
Infinity website wrote:Xeodrons has been created to fight against the Universe’s finest troopers. The Ur Hegemony does not have a limit when it comes to create techno-organic creatures, heroes for the Combined Army, monsters for humanity.
They are the Summit of the Batroid series, with great combat capabilities, and high and mobility and tactical skills. To sum up, they have been built for combat and designed for destruction; the perfect weapon to eradicate any resistance of the Human Sphere.
Without a single doubt some incredible miniatures. The concept design was already scary, but watching it come to life is amazing, a sight to behold. A risky design for a model, but it was made to be able to, not only represent its mechanical and organic components fused, but to give it a fearsome alien and lethal look. At first sight, it is inevitable to think that our days are numbered and our last minutes will be very unpleasant.
From a gaming perspective, the Xeodron has a TAG profile, but at a HI cost, very few points for a perfect killing machine.
From its Special Skills, without any doubt the most remarkable ones are the Super-Jump, which grants it special movement capabilities, and also having Fireteam: Haris, about which I will talk in a bit.
Regarding its options, we have three possibilities, all of them carrying a Blitzen, which will help on those long range Face to Face Rolls. We have the Red Fury option which will give us a configuration for a mid to short range TAG. The other two are more focused in short range, with the versatile MULTI Rifle or the K1, to hunt down troops with high armor. And if all that wasn’t enough we have a Heavy Pistol, for when things get ugly at short range. Personally, I think that this is a very interesting profile and that the Contact Onyx Force is going to get people talking a lot.
Back to Special Skills, it is the time to talk about the Haris option. By having it as a base skill and not as an option, we can form a Fireteam with any Xeodron configuration. This way we can field a Fireteam Haris with an Assault Hacker Samaritan alongside two bodyguards with very bad temper, for example, a configuration I do like a lot is the Red Fury Xeodron to advance and a MULTI Rifle –To react in ARO with DA or to face armored enemies- while the Samaritan that goes with them can go to the objectives and accomplish the mission without inconveniences. And if someone thinks to stop the Xeodrons with a Hacker, the Samaritan will be around to make them forget that idea.
To sum up, for 160 points and 2 SWC we have the muscle of the list covered and some of the specialists department too, now you only have to finish it with some funny little things from the Onyx Sectorial.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/27 14:36:17
2016/05/27 14:39:24
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2016/05/27 14:51:17
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
CBs growth numbers are quite normal for a company of their size. The sameness stems from their production limit, i.e. the toplimit of what they can produce in a given time. Of course the could quickly increase it, but it is normally better to slowly grow capacities and match them with the avarages than to make a big jump and then have capacities you will not need but still cost you a lot.
Extra Arms... will cost more than most would be willing to pay. They need space on the rubbers that has to be taken from the space for other minis, inventory space increases and people would complain that they would have to buy extra-boxes to use all build-options. Rackhams already been there, done that... and it cost them more than it was worth it. Now if we talk about units of ten standard-soldier metal miniatures or plastic this is quite a different thing. Oh, and digital design is not way cheaper than traditional design or allows to change things in an instant...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/27 16:28:59
André Winter L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio
2016/05/27 16:44:21
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
It looks like the Xeodrons have bulked out a bit since we first saw their dossier art. They seem to have gained more organic bits as well. I was hoping theg would have stealth abilities, based on their appearance. Superjump is acceptable, I suppose. I didn't know that this would be a 2-pack though. That means we get to avoid having a repeat of the Sphinx. I have to say, I really like the various Batroid designs we've been getting and these guys are no exception.
They still kept the two large, featureless chunks of smooth scrap metal on the back. Those are going to look so horrible unless you're a Giraldez-level painter.
2016/05/27 21:47:44
Subject: The NEW new INFINITY News & Rumors Thread [2016] Edition! N3 HS Preview on Pg. 21!
11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
~1660