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 Spinner wrote:


Honestly, there IS a bit of nuance - it's just that GW stopped using it fairly early on..

The 'hitting someone in the face with an axe' angle will always be present with Khorne, because there will always be Khorne worshippers who do that. However, the nuance has not disappeared from Khorne with AoS.

In one set of stories, one of the leading Deathbringers hates Khorne. He is trying to climb his way up the ranks so that, one day, he can march right up to the Skull Throne and plant one on Khorne's own face.

In the recently Fyreslayers stories, there is a Khorne leader who (effectively) hires the Fyreslayers to nobble his boss, because if he tries to do it himself it will not go well for him (amongst the other Bloodbound, rather get the feeling he is up for the straight fight). So, a little bit of politicking.

The different approaches are there if you look for them...

 Spinner wrote:

RoperPG wrote:


Khorne is, well, Khorne. There's only so much nuance you can apply to blood, fighting and more blood and fighting.

Honestly, there IS a bit of nuance - it's just that GW stopped using it fairly early on. Wasn't early Khorne less of the 'cares not from where the blood flows' and more warriors seeking worthy challenges and the best skull to give to Khorne? You could do a pretty neat Khorne concept with that. Say, one of the world's greatest warriors, fighting in his god's name, but slowly being subsumed over the years...being remade in the image of Khorne (as Chaos tends to do) and -

Waitaminnit. :p

There was a throwaway bit of fluff in a timeline about a Chaos champion - who I'm pretty sure was Khornate - leading a raid on a particularly nasty Bretonnian noble's domain. He ended up in a duel with the noble, and the women of the village came out to cheer...for the Chaos champion. After killing the Bret, he ended up leaving everything else untouched. I always liked that one.

I can't remember if this was an actual bit of fluff lost to the ages or something a friend brought up as an idea for a 40k RPG, but I love the idea that there is a planet out there in the Imperium with a strong, proud, warrior culture, absolutely perfect for raising dozens of regiments of fine upstanding guardsmen. Until they realize the reason they are so good in a fight is because this whole time they have been worshiping Khorne, not the Emperor.

There certainly used to be a big focus on honor with Khorne, because all the gods had positive traits alongside the negative ones. Nurgle was love, I forget the others.

I always liked the idea of a Black Crusade RPG character who was a Khonite that wouldn't kill indiscriminately, he wouldn't bring Khorne sacks of skulls from random nobodies, he would only go after the very best, and every skull he did bring in would be worth 10 of those his mindless companions brought.
Or one carrying around a heavy bolter who sneered at his companions with their axes, feeling the need to point out that he can kill up to 80 people a minute with his gun, while those trying to get into melee will never reach his efficiency.
Ooooor, a sniper. A true murderer though and through. Something no one ever associates with Khorne but all he has to do is line up a shot and pull the trigger and he can claim a life in his gods name without the victim ever knowing what happened.

I WAS really into Warhammer, but GW recently dramatically changed what warhammer is, so now I'm commenting on that fact.

I find it a bit annoying when you try to shut down the discussion by telling us it's pointless. A game we enjoyed was ruined (yeah, I think that's fair to say without hyperbole) and if we wanna talk about that, what's the harm?

I do understand that there's some people crapping in the positive AoS threads, and for that I'm sorry. But I quite enjoy these discussions pulling it apart, and I read but don't post in the positive threads because I have nothing to contribute.

MongooseMatt wrote:
In the recently Fyreslayers stories, there is a Khorne leader who (effectively) hires the Fyreslayers to nobble his boss, because if he tries to do it himself it will not go well for him (amongst the other Bloodbound, rather get the feeling he is up for the straight fight). So, a little bit of politicking.

That feels like the kind of thing Khorne should smite him down for trying, you don't earn the favor of Khorne by hiring others to do your killing.

 Da Boss wrote:


A game we enjoyed was ruined (yeah, I think that's fair to say without hyperbole) and if we wanna talk about that, what's the harm?

That is a different argument - the debate I was wading into was about how better priced other manufacturers are.

However, I am happy to engage: I do not think it is fair to say that the game was ruined. 8e is still played round our way, and AoS has given Fantasy a new lease of life for me.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:
That feels like the kind of thing Khorne should smite him down for trying, you don't earn the favor of Khorne by hiring others to do your killing.

Ah, you are a Traditionalist

Funny, I wrote a mini-campaign based around exactly this - a Khorne Lord acting smart, and what Valkia the Bloody thought about that...

8e will die off without official support, it will become harder to find a game and the setting will slowly fade away as well.

Gradually, older kits will go out of production or be replaced by new kits with a new artistic direction and larger scale.

I'm happy for you that you like AoS but it's not for me.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
That feels like the kind of thing Khorne should smite him down for trying, you don't earn the favor of Khorne by hiring others to do your killing.

Ah, you are a Traditionalist

Funny, I wrote a mini-campaign based around exactly this - a Khorne Lord acting smart, and what Valkia the Bloody thought about that...

I foresee a very bloody end at spearpoint for that Lord.

Anyway, back on topic. The problem with this whole "pay the ever increasing prices or go elsewhere" situation, unavoidable as it is, is that it won't exactly help the game grow as a whole. It will only cut away at the playerbase that will simply become unable to cope with the rampant price increases.

And while you can drive an Aston Martin all on your own as you don't really need anyone else to do it, I can't say that a dwindling customer base is the best thing for a wargame.

welcome to Kings of War. You can buy an entire army for that price.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Ooooor, a sniper. A true murderer though and through. Something no one ever associates with Khorne but all he has to do is line up a shot and pull the trigger and he can claim a life in his gods name without the victim ever knowing what happened.

Stealing that. That'd be a great nemesis next time I can scrape up an Only War group.

"You can tell which skulls I've given to Khorne. They've all got a hole right between the eyes."

If anyone reads the All Guardsman Party Dark Heresy reports, they had a mission to a Chaos-infested planet where they made a deal with a tribe that worshiped Khorne to guide them through a jungle to the temple they needed to kill. The tribe was actually quite friendly and extremely good at fighting orks, just very martially-focused and, you know, that whole Khorne worship thing. They decided early on that the Khornate was 'a hell of a guy'.

They weren't happy when an NPC priest blew his head off after he took them where they needed to go, but, you know...Khorne cultist...

In one set of stories, one of the leading Deathbringers hates Khorne. He is trying to climb his way up the ranks so that, one day, he can march right up to the Skull Throne and plant one on Khorne's own face.

That actually sounds reasonably interesting (if...wholly unreasonable, but it's good to have goals!). Nice to know there's still a fun idea or two out there.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Anyway, back on topic. The problem with this whole "pay the ever increasing prices or go elsewhere" situation, unavoidable as it is, is that it won't exactly help the game grow as a whole. It will only cut away at the playerbase that will simply become unable to cope with the rampant price increases.

Here's a question. In the past year's reports, has GW stated that increasing their player base is the aim? Genuine question.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Anyway, back on topic. The problem with this whole "pay the ever increasing prices or go elsewhere" situation, unavoidable as it is, is that it won't exactly help the game grow as a whole. It will only cut away at the playerbase that will simply become unable to cope with the rampant price increases.

Here's a question. In the past year's reports, has GW stated that increasing their player base is the aim? Genuine question.

That will always be an aim. No business would aim to stagnant with a product relaunch, directly stated or not.

It was clearly addressed as such on internal emails that I was privy to.

AOS proving WHFB was actually a 'cheap' game.

 JamesY wrote:

That will always be an aim. No business would aim to stagnant with a product relaunch, directly stated or not.

I ask, as it is not without precedent to focus on specific areas of business (White Wolf did this in a roundabout sort of way years ago).

MongooseMatt wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

That will always be an aim. No business would aim to stagnant with a product relaunch, directly stated or not.

I ask, as it is not without precedent to focus on specific areas of business (White Wolf did this in a roundabout sort of way years ago).

Are you saying that GW is specifically looking to cull its player base? That as a publicly traded business more profit will be had by having less total customers and by pushing an elite product that is essentially sold to only the highest of income customers?

It seems to me that GW is raising prices for new releases but offering a small selection of cheaper kits at the same time so if you want AoS on the cheap you can.

You won't be able to get a Fyreslayer army for cheap with GW models - so you are restricted with your cheap options as it currently includes:

The starter set
The start collecting now boxes
The old battalions
Most of the WHFB range

If you want a Duardin army this is cheapest it will get:

1x Dwarf Lord £8.20
1x Runelord £13
16x Thunderers £20
16x Dwarf Warriors £20
1 x Dwarf Cannon £15.50

Total = £76.70

That is a VERY playable army for AoS with a hero a caster (well, as close as a dwarf gets) a close combat unit, a ranged unit and a warmachine.

Take it or leave it if you think that is a worthwhile investment. I certainly think it is. I think AoS rules + WHFB pricing are two good friends.

I too think the new releases are very pricy. That may be why I'm am only picking up my first AoS specific miniatures tomorrow (up until now everything I have bought has been WHFB).

So GW are building a range with lots of different pricing options available. You can see this in the books too that range from the super expensive limited editions - down to the battletomes - down to the new warscroll book at £20 for 300+ pages (apparently) down to the app bought micro purchases (£2.29 for a scenario) down to the free rules.

 pox wrote:


Are you saying that GW is specifically looking to cull its player base? That as a publicly traded business more profit will be had by having less total customers and by pushing an elite product that is essentially sold to only the highest of income customers?

I am not saying anything - I am asking a question.

I don't even pretend to understand all the decisions GW makes. But I am pretty sure they make sense to someone...

(also started to wonder whether there is a deliberate switching of targets, hence the question).

If GW does not have the aim of getting more customers, the only way to increase revenue is to sell more models to a smaller player base, or to sell the same amount of models at a higher cost.

The only markets I know that try for this level of exclusivity are pure luxury items, items of the highest quality make possible, hand made items, and status symbols.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
These guys have just one life point and their ward save of 4++ is not a real life savior.

yes but their point value is very low

Well done man

For now, sure, AoS even makes FB look cheap!

But what happens when those models are "rotated out" (presumably in a big "pure" Duardin release)? We'll get the new range with the current prices... or maybe even more expensive, as we never when GW will decide to hike the prices again.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Anyway, back on topic. The problem with this whole "pay the ever increasing prices or go elsewhere" situation, unavoidable as it is, is that it won't exactly help the game grow as a whole. It will only cut away at the playerbase that will simply become unable to cope with the rampant price increases.

Here's a question. In the past year's reports, has GW stated that increasing their player base is the aim? Genuine question.

No clue. But I think not aiming at increasing the customer base would be a very bad move, though I admit to being dumb when it comes to economics. I am merely using common sense and following what I believe to be the inevitable outcome of increasing prices for less models - an ever dwindling customer base.

I admit sometimes the tinfoil hat calls to me and the idea that GW is indeed culling its customer base to keep their most loyal customers - the ones who will weather through the successive price increases with a smile - comes to mind. But that's just silly thoughts - it doesn't make sense that they should strive to do that, when the opposite is the obvious way to go (to me anyway).

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Spoiler:

 Bottle wrote:
It seems to me that GW is raising prices for new releases but offering a small selection of cheaper kits at the same time so if you want AoS on the cheap you can.

You won't be able to get a Fyreslayer army for cheap with GW models - so you are restricted with your cheap options as it currently includes:

The starter set
The start collecting now boxes
The old battalions
Most of the WHFB range

If you want a Duardin army this is cheapest it will get:

1x Dwarf Lord £8.20
1x Runelord £13
16x Thunderers £20
16x Dwarf Warriors £20
1 x Dwarf Cannon £15.50

Total = £76.70

That is a VERY playable army for AoS with a hero a caster (well, as close as a dwarf gets) a close combat unit, a ranged unit and a warmachine.

Take it or leave it if you think that is a worthwhile investment. I certainly think it is. I think AoS rules + WHFB pricing are two good friends.

I too think the new releases are very pricy. That may be why I'm am only picking up my first AoS specific miniatures tomorrow (up until now everything I have bought has been WHFB).

So GW are building a range with lots of different pricing options available. You can see this in the books too that range from the super expensive limited editions - down to the battletomes - down to the new warscroll book at £20 for 300+ pages (apparently) down to the app bought micro purchases (£2.29 for a scenario) down to the free rules.

For now, sure, AoS even makes FB look cheap!

But what happens when those models are "rotated out" (presumably in a big "pure" Duardin release)? We'll get the new range with the current prices... or maybe even more expensive, as we never when GW will decide to hike the prices again.

It's going to take a long long time for the current WHFB range to be completely replaced, the sets being repackaged for AoS retain their old pricing or the same pricing per model if they are bundled in larger boxes - by the time all those boxes are replaced the current Fyreslayers will probably seem cheap :-p there was a time when 10x fantasy models for £15.50 was an outrageous price (maybe it still is). :-)

MongooseMatt wrote:
Here's a question. In the past year's reports, has GW stated that increasing their player base is the aim? Genuine question.

I doubt it personally. If anything, I think they'd rather carve out a smaller, more focused niche that is happy with gw's direction* , rather than trying to cater to everyone and satisfy no one and work with the former (ie players that will joyfully deal with the high prices and are willing to sit in the driving seat in terms of playing/running their own games). If they can sell less stuff at higher margins and come out with something similar in terms of a profit line, I think they'd be happy to go along that route.

Whether that's sensible in the long run is up for debate.

*a smaller, but more focused player base is easier to manage, write for and ultimately, to please. Privateer press's wmh is a very competitively focused game, and has succeeded to a great extent because it has focused in on that niche and did its best to 'own' it. It wouldn't surprise me if ve took a few notes and decided to do the same thing. Only not with competitive gaming and more with the narrative day gaming approach.

pox wrote:
Are you saying that GW is specifically looking to cull its player base?

Potentially. They've made it clear they want nothing to do with tournaments and the competitive side of wargaming. Gamers can be a very vocal, very toxic and abrasive bunch and it wouldn't surprise me if gw would be happy to be rid of a lot of them and just deal with the ones that are happy to buy their war toys and play their games without getting all srs bsinss about it all, and not both with the rest, and all their complaining and hostility.

In their mind at least.

pox wrote:
That as a publicly traded business more profit will be had by having less total customers and by pushing an elite product that is essentially sold to only the highest of income customers?

Potentially. Maybe? There is an argument that if you can sell fewer units (lower manufacturing costs, design costs, tooling costs etc), but at a higher margin, and be lean about your production then that's not necessarily a bad decision. And remember - it's an (ahem!) premium product. It's a brand. Hence you pay more for the same stuff. And some people are happy to do this.

Whether it's right or wrong, or sustainable is another debate.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

But what happens when those models are "rotated out" (presumably in a big "pure" Duardin release)? We'll get the new range with the current prices... or maybe even more expensive, as we never when GW will decide to hike the prices again.

I think worrying about that is the way to madness

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

I admit sometimes the tinfoil hat calls to me and the idea that GW is indeed culling its customer base to keep their most loyal customers - the ones who will weather through the successive price increases with a smile - comes to mind. But that's just silly thoughts - it doesn't make sense that they should strive to do that, when the opposite is the obvious way to go (to me anyway).

While it is easy to knock GW when the full facts are not (and never will be other than in hindsight) present, I think there is a definite method at work here. Two thoughts occur...

1. You have very (relatively) cheap models, like the Sylvaneth and Pestilens directly alongside 'premium' items such as the Varanguard - and, critically, those big multi-hundred Pound collections you see on the web store. That is classic pricing structure strategy. You see, you are not really supposed to buy the really high ticket items (some will). They are there to balance your perceptions on the mid-range stuff, and the really low value end keeps at least something in the reach of the meanest customer. That's the sales angle. From our side, unless someone thinks they have an absolute right to be able to afford anything GW produces, they get the big rollers picking up the Varanguard equivalents and keep rolling along with the low ticket items - that makes a lot of sense.

And, connected to this, you asked what happens when the older models get phased out. Well, either the economy and inflation has moved things along by then (it will take a long time to phase that much out) or, and consider this... New items get a premium price tag, hooking the, let's call them 'early adopters'. A ways down the track, you then see the Start Collecting! Fyreslayers box set, which then hooks in all those people who did not want to pay the premium price. GW gets to dip in at both ends of the spectrum...

2. I have been thinking about this 80/20 split GW talked about in their investment meeting, whereby the hardcore (I hesitate to use the term 'tournament' or 'competitive') gamers form the 20%, but the vast majority are casual collectors and part-time (shall we say) gamers.

Suppose, just suppose for a minute... that they are right. If that 80% is the sort to regularly dip into Black Library products instead of, say, paying £20 to attend a tournament this weekend (and Black Library seems to be doing okay, right?). If actually playing the games forms the tiniest part of their time in the hobby. Suppose that described most of GW's customers. Just suppose.

All of a sudden a great many things in terms of design, mechanics and pricing start making sense.

I really don't have any answers. However, I would humbly suggest that if we are to divine what GW are intending to do, we start by assuming they are not stupid. They might even be right - they have, after all, lasted this long when so many other companies in this field have failed.

MongooseMatt wrote:
(and Black Library seems to be doing okay, right?)

Stop by the News and Rumours thread some time. It used to be just as popular as the Forge World one with lots of new novels that got people excited and talking about BL. Now it's populated by the one poster presenting the news, a couple of regulars, and tumbleweeds.

BL changed a lot in recent years and started putting out so many digital short stories, novellas, limited editions, changed the standard to hardcover... it's made it impossible for a collector to keep up with the series they like. They've killed a lot of interest in the HH series because people didn't want half their collection in softback, half in hardcover so we had to wait a year after release to get the latest novel.
BL was at a point where every new HH book was hitting the NYT bestseller list. Not one has since the switch to hardcover.
They are also at the point of trying to offer people subscriptions to receave all the digital conted they put out in a year, expeacting payment ahead of time for unknown content or quality. They also are trying to sell 'supply drops', a bundle of digital content one may have already brought of separately.

I'll stop ranting now, but no I'd say BLs high point was 2012 or thereabouts, and with the push towards limited editions and e content they have lost a significant following.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

But what happens when those models are "rotated out" (presumably in a big "pure" Duardin release)? We'll get the new range with the current prices... or maybe even more expensive, as we never when GW will decide to hike the prices again.

I think worrying about that is the way to madness

You're assuming I'm not already there!

On a more serious note - I am thinking from a very pragmatic point of view: I want to get my kid (currently a wrecking ball of a 2 year old) into the Hobby later on so we can spend a lot of quality time together painting, modelling and playing (another why I'm teaching my nephew 40k and have already begun directing my niece to Eldar). However, the idea of having to pay so much cash per mini makes the idea of convincing my wife of this... let's say ever increasingly harder.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

On a more serious note - I am thinking from a very pragmatic point of view: I want to get my kid (currently a wrecking ball of a 2 year old) into the Hobby later on so we can spend a lot of quality time together painting, modelling and playing (another why I'm teaching my nephew 40k and have already begun directing my niece to Eldar). However, the idea of having to pay so much cash per mini makes the idea of convincing my wife of this... let's say ever increasingly harder.

Might I suggest you consider some very fine games with cheaper models, such as the Judge Dredd miniatures game? Or perhaps you can encourage him to learn about history with Victory at Sea?

(hey, some of us have to make a living too, right?)

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

What I am going to ask you is a very honest question - how long do you think you can cope up with the price hike, when all the models offered by GW are priced as the new releases currently are? I know this is the madness in me speaking, but I can't unsee the fact that sooner or later all basic infantry that GW will produce will be priced at 8£ a pop...

Well, £8 per basic infantry will happen - inflation makes that inevitable. The question is just when and, across the board, I think we are a long way off. Space Marines are currently £25 for ten on the Tactical Squads, which I think is as good a marker as any in the range (for obvious reasons), so we are a good ways away.

However, to answer your specific question... well, actually I have been working on a blog post that touches on exactly this (should be finished tomorrow, I think), as last night I put the Varanguard together. Now, people can argue about the size of them and yes, it is true, they are almost-sort-of-kinda the same size as a Dracoth, and yes they are equivalent to a Chaos Lord on a Daemonic Mount and for £20 a pop (with current pricing) that is good...

But when you open the box, you will find you get three very average-sized sprues. Someone paying £60 for those three sprues (as opposed to the three finished models, which is a bit different when it comes to perceptions - and at the end fo the day, that is what we are talking about) might go a bit dippy when they first open the box. The variety of parts is not massively huge either (basically comes down to head and weapon swaps, nothing about poses).

And this is where I make a confession. I don't pay £60 for these guys. I pay trade (£32.32, and I get to claim VAT back on this stock). That makes them a bit more palatable and gives me a great out - if I ever sell them, I will at least get my money back. I do realise that others are not in the same boat as me and, further confession, even at £30-odd I am not rushing out to buy a second set.

So, I am aware of the issue And I go through the same pain as everyone else when I want/need something that is only available direct.

There is a flip side to all of this, and I realised it with the paints. GW paints are very expensive, we all know that. However, I have always felt that you get what you pay for - I have tried other paint ranges (no, not all of them), and I just get better results with GW's. They go on better, they have an extremely wide range of colours and shades now... I pay more than I need to, but I am getting something extra back for it.

The same applies to models - even, to an extent, the Varanguard. Leaving aside the fact that I enjoy the Warhammer worlds and that only GW produce models for them (natch), no one matches the quality of GW miniatures. If you want miniatures like that, you pay the price. And the price for three Varanguard is £60.

I think you kinda explained where I'm at in your post perfectly.

First, you talk about the perceived value of the Varenguard after opening the box, that there are no pose options, just a few weapon and head swaps. You indicate that they could be seen as not much bang for your buck. I felt the same way when I opened my box of 60 dollar witch elves which I bought to make Bride Wych Eldar conversion.

Then you talk about how you pay a little more then half retail to buy the models, and although you thought the value was good at that price point, you don't have plans to buy more due to the cost.

Lastly, you mention that if you want to play AoS and use GW brand premium models, then you have no choice but to pay 100 dollars for three models.

I agree with all those points. My box of witch elves was top notch when assembled and converted. the detail was stunning, plenty of bits and odds and ends, plus two ways to assemble the box. I was able to mix them with DE Wyches and make 20 Brides from the one box. However I wont buy a second one. Although they are the finest models, the price is just too high.

GW is making a lot of strides as of late, with prices of a lot of products more reasonable, things like the starter armies, Battle of Calth, the new 300+ page chaos tome for 33 bucks, and the Christmas sales. I will continue to buy things of this nature, and leave the high ticket items to the whales. If this trend continues, then I'll stay in the hobby. (AoS dies where I play, so I'm just left with 40k at this point.) As a result, the total I spent in the last year on GW was the lowest in quite a while.

The problem with that is I no longer look at GW as a valuable commodity. I don't look at the high ticket items as a "one day I can buy that" point of view, I look at it as "GW is trying to rip me off." Keep in mind I believe in supporting my local store. I don't buy at a discount, I Don't own the store, and so therefore I pay full listed price for all my model purchases. If you can buy the products at half price and still have to think about the purchase due to the prices, imagine being a regular customer who has to pay twice as much as you.

Keep in mind my point is perceived value. My other hobbies are 10x more expensive then GW, so its not total money I'm talking about its more "is this worth buying?" Most of the high ticket items they have put out recently are not worth buying to me. They are pricing me out of the hobby.

 pox wrote:

GW is making a lot of strides as of late, with prices of a lot of products more reasonable, things like the starter armies, Battle of Calth, the new 300+ page chaos tome for 33 bucks, and the Christmas sales. I will continue to buy things of this nature, and leave the high ticket items to the whales. If this trend continues, then I'll stay in the hobby. (AoS dies where I play, so I'm just left with 40k at this point.) As a result, the total I spent in the last year on GW was the lowest in quite a while.

The problem with that is I no longer look at GW as a valuable commodity. I don't look at the high ticket items as a "one day I can buy that" point of view, I look at it as "GW is trying to rip me off." Keep in mind I believe in supporting my local store. I don't buy at a discount, I Don't own the store, and so therefore I pay full listed price for all my model purchases. If you can buy the products at half price and still have to think about the purchase due to the prices, imagine being a regular customer who has to pay twice as much as you.

Keep in mind my point is perceived value. Most of the high ticket items they have put out recently are not worth buying to me. They are pricing me out of the hobby.

Allow me to make these words of yours mine aswell, if you don't mind, as they match perfectly (there are some snippets, of course).

For example, it's really hard for me to justify buying the new Interrogator-Chaplain that costs atm 27€ in my FLGS. And the hard part's not even justifying it to my wife - it's to myself. And I am not even going to mention the Armybooks/Codices.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:


Allow me to make these words of yours mine aswell, if you don't mind, as they match perfectly (there are some snippets, of course).

For example, it's really hard for me to justify buying the new Interrogator-Chaplain that costs atm 27€ in my FLGS. And the hard part's not even justifying it to my wife - it's to myself. And I am not even going to mention the Armybooks/Codices.

I usually speed paint, I can paint a 2,000 point army in a few weeks. I decided I wanted to do an army that I spent a little more time on the painting, and opted for Dark Eldar. I bought the codex, and it was great. the pictures, the background, the artwork. Then I bought the Haemonculus book to get the rest of the story. After seeing how it all meshed together, there was enough background to flesh out a color scheme and background. I picked up the Harlequin book, rinse and repeat, and finally the Eldar codex. There was plenty of meat on how a combined Eldar army would work together in the background, and I figured out all my color schemes for the four factions.

This is my favorite part of the game, designing out my force and how it will look. I made sketches, actual army lists, and order of purchases. At some point it occurred to me that I had not bought a single model, and had already spent well over 200 dollars on the army. If the books were closer to 30-40 dollars, I would own every book they put out. Instead, I only buy the Codexes for the armies that I play simply because the cost is too high. I simply cannot justify spending over a thousand dollars a year on rules and background for the game. Ironically if they were priced at a more reasonable point I would spend a lot more annually then I do currently.

 pox wrote:
Ironically if they were priced at a more reasonable point I would spend a lot more annually then I do currently.

I think that a lot of other users here on Dakka share this point of view (I know I do). I wonder just how many thousands of £'s is GW losing over this price increase.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 pox wrote:
Ironically if they were priced at a more reasonable point I would spend a lot more annually then I do currently.

I think that a lot of other users here on Dakka share this point of view (I know I do). I wonder just how many thousands of £'s is GW losing over this price increase.

Aye. They'd get a lot more of my hobby budget too if it were cheaper.