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SlyasR wrote:
Cannot find the post but read earlier that people were thinking Ulrik would get the new hellfrost hammer. But from the image I've seen it seems really clear that he is equiped with a crozius (As I would want it to be should be added)

I'm still hoping for Sternhammer, who would make the most sense given that he's a special character that comes standard with a Thunder Hammer (in prior rules) and he's the "Warden of the Lost" (i.e. - the Wulfen) and his special rules have always been to buff Wulfen.

I believe he already has at least a limited edition model from years back, but no mention of his release (when they mentioned a bunch of other Space Wolf releases) makes this seem doubtful. It may just be that the Helfrost pistol and Tempest Hammer end up being new wargear.

VoraciousTigger wrote:

SlyasR wrote:
Cannot find the post but read earlier that people were thinking Ulrik would get the new hellfrost hammer. But from the image I've seen it seems really clear that he is equiped with a crozius (As I would want it to be should be added)

I'm still hoping for Sternhammer, who would make the most sense given that he's a special character that comes standard with a Thunder Hammer (in prior rules) and he's the "Warden of the Lost" (i.e. - the Wulfen) and his special rules have always been to buff Wulfen.

I believe he already has at least a limited edition model from years back, but no mention of his release (when they mentioned a bunch of other Space Wolf releases) makes this seem doubtful. It may just be that the Helfrost pistol and Tempest Hammer end up being new wargear.

He was a Games Day/Event exclusive model when The Eye of Terror event was going on. His rules also apparently came with him.

Don't hold your breath for an "updated" version.

Normally I'd complain that Chaos got forgotten again but since i'm intending on using SW rules for my Khorne Chaos boyz, I am a happy sponge (these would be perfect for Wrathmongers).

Im still not quite sure why everyone seems to think the Wulfen are so OP. Wraiths are quicker, cost less with their invul save, rend, have toughness 5 (so they arent instant killed by str 8 shots) and get their improved FNP roll- no one says they are broken. When they were t4 certainly nobody did, because weight of fire str8 shots just got rid of them. Wulfen have some fancier rules but they aren't as durable. People think they are just going to put 2 storm shields on the front models, if so, you wont have any thunderhammers get into combat, actually without the 3+ invul, you probably wont have any models get into combat. If zero wulfen make it into close combat, double their attacks still equates to 0. If you fill out a squad of 5 with a leader and 4 storm shields you might make it into combat with 1 or 2 if they enemy doesnt really care about letting you make it and that is a squad that costs over 250 with the grenade launchers. If chaos players think these guys are going to be their saving grace, they will be sorely disappointed. However, that all comes down to how you play the game. The whole attach Samuel to the squad, with TWL attached and string the whole unit along in my opinion isn't really what was intended with the unit, of course 40k now is more like Magic the Gathering or Warmachine where people want the game over by turn 2-3, I'd prefer a game that comes down to the wire on turn 5 or 6.

I've heard more people say they aren't very useful than have said they're OP.

Also, there was a gak storm about wraiths when they came out. They are OP. Particularly harvest wraiths. They were pretty damn good when they were T4.

The book isn't out yet. Any discourse on unit effectiveness is asserting certainty where there can be none.

I think wulfen are balanced and a fun looking unit, and that's all I know right now.

I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.

Really.... space wolves are an overly favored faction?

They had, like... ONE... really great unit. I mean, every single winning SW army was loaded with TWC. Now, they have.... TWO!

Compare that with the "favored" factions -- you know which ones I mean -- there are a bookful of units which are really useful and permit different playstyles and combinations without being embarrassingly handicapped. I mean, I'm not saying wolves were horrible or anything, but I really wouldn't say that they have been a GW favorite since their latest codex.

Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..

Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..

Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.

But... we're a ways off from 5th now and decades removed from 2nd Once upon a time Adeptus Custodes with webbers were a thing too.

That's like saying that Grey Knights are a favored faction -- which would be sort of true in the long-term, macro view of the game (they've risen to or near the top here and there), and quasi-true right now as they have some decent models, but they're not remotely comparable to the factions that GW always gives its love to.

I think that Wolves and GK represent the minimum GW should do for a faction. Generally speaking, the factions treated worse than SW and GK are the ones that you constantly hear moaning about being underpowered; the factions consistently treated better are the ones you constantly hear about being overpowered.

The threshold for a favored faction shouldn't be, "Yeah, they usually have one decent build for peeps that want to be competitive" -- it should be, "they have a few great builds for peeps who want to be competitive, and lots of fun builds that aren't horribly underpowered"

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..

Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.

I'm still not really sure I'd call SW "favourited" so much as "a one trick pony army as a result of GW's inability to see the value of certain units".

I'd suggest most people who have been long time SW players over the decades would have preferred SW to be an internally balanced army rather than a "SW are middle to top tier but only if you spam XXXX unit" army, where XXXX just changes from one edition to the next.

That's pretty much a summary of all the factions though, either at certain times or perhaps always, a competitive, well balanced both internally and externally, codex is a rare thing indeed, and it isn't just something SW players would prefer.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's pretty much a summary of all the factions though, either at certain times or perhaps always, a competitive, well balanced both internally and externally, codex is a rare thing indeed, and it isn't just something SW players would prefer.

Which is largely my point, SW aren't "favourited" they are just "randomly one trick pony army".

They might have been lucky that they have almost always had a trick they can pull, but I'd call it luck more than anything. Favouritism would have been a balanced codex with multiple decent builds, not Blood Claws being blatantly underpowered next to GH for almost a decade.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..

Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.

I wouldnt say that. SW had the first codex of 2nd, and GW botched the assault cannon rule, so all terminators could have one. Clearly it wasnt intentional and went overlooked- otherwise, their codex wasnt better than the rest, Eldar were plenty good in 2nd, as were some other builds. GH have spent as much time in history being overcosted as they have a bargain. Currently in the shooting game, I believe them to be overcosted. You have acute senses which is useless as they dont have outflank and counter attack isn't much use if you are shot- which is what most armies are going to do to you. 3rd edition they were vastly overpriced at 18pts a model- which is why you didnt see many SW armies at all (they never got a 4th edition codex).

So 5th comes around- yeah, GH were good. LF were good. TWC were good- it made an overpowered codex at the time. That lasted 2 years and since then they have been middle of the pack, if you take out TWC they are definitely lower tier.

Their psychic powers are as bad as chaos. Their warlord traits- you're better off taking one of the generic in the rule book and their formations are underwhelming, certainly nothing like Tau, Eldar, SM, DA, Necron or KDK.

So GW gave them a unit of wulfen- are they fluffy- yes. Would they be great in shooting armies, perhaps, but SW dont shoot much anymore. In a normal SW list, TWC are arguably better. Frankly we didnt need another close combat unit, we needed our dreads put in line, and blood claws raised to WS4, and our scouts made to be useful again (actually any part of our codex other than TWC and Iron Priests). I and I would say many SW players were just hoping to gain some ground on the rest of our codex, rather than get another melee unit in a shooting environment. And I wasn't looking for OP units, I was looking for other units in the codex to be useful.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.

exactly, they may not be overpowered considering the emphasis on shooting. But they are OP compared to other elite CC troops. So, instead of making a rule that would benefit all CC units (for example, make cover save independent from other saves), they boost specific troops (just like they did with they lychguards and flayed ones). It wouldn't be necessarily bad if GW were consistent codex to codex, as all cc units would be boosted in their new codex, but it'S not the case. A lot of the time, it seems they are done by different group who have 0 interaction with each others (example, see removing cybork bodies options for Nobz)

Imo, it's really the frost claws who's out of this realm and the, "they can attack again if killed" shouldn't work on I.D. and D weapon. What worries me even more is that we didn't see what formations bonus they can benefit from yet :s Imagine if it's something even half as good as the Decurion detachment

 Talys wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think the main complaint isn't that they're OP, but rather how much more useful they are than other melee choices in other codices on top of Space Wolves already being overly favorited by GW.

Really.... space wolves are an overly favored faction?

Absole-fething-lutely.
1. You thought Ultramarines and Grey Knights were Mary Sues in the fluff? Space Wolves are even worse in this regard. They defy the Inquisition because. They say they don't use Librarians and do so anyway with nonlogic (even for the setting) because. Grimnar isn't a Psyker or anything and yet uses an axe he got from a Chaos dude without being corrupted because.
2. They get more model releases than the other Marine factions. Blood Angels have Death Company, Sanguine Guard, and a couple of Dreads. Dark Angels have a couple of Biker and Terminator kits that function differently for their models. Space Wolves get Blood Claws, a couple of Dreads, Grey Hunters, their wolf stuff, their own Stormraven, and the upcoming 13th company stuff.
3. They get more special-snowflake good rules. You're on the money regarding internal balance, but external balance is STUPID. I only know the 5th and 7th codices, but based off that we can make the following observations. With the 5th edition codex, we had Grey Hunters, which were what people mean when they complain about Tactical Marines being great. They had a melee weapon for only 1 point, and got their Special Weapons for cheaper. Long Fangs carried more Heavy Weapons and for cheaper than their Devastator counterparts. It was harder to kill these shooty units in melee because they had Counter Attack, and their Power Weapons were better. Plus your generic HQ could easily obtain EW from that Saga or whatever.
7th toned this down but not by a lot. Grey Hunters are still better than Tactical Marines outside the Gladius (where you're only taking them for the free vehicles, not their rules), Thunderwolf Calvary now got even better, and their Power Weapons are still better. The main thing keeping them in check against the vanilla codex is easy access to Grav via Bikers and Centurions.

sturguard wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd...Grey Hunters being Tacticals+2 at a bargain points value..Long Fangs essentially ruling 5th...TWC always being awesome..

Yeah, SW have always been well looked after.

I wouldnt say that. SW had the first codex of 2nd, and GW botched the assault cannon rule, so all terminators could have one. Clearly it wasnt intentional and went overlooked- otherwise, their codex wasnt better than the rest, Eldar were plenty good in 2nd, as were some other builds. GH have spent as much time in history being overcosted as they have a bargain. Currently in the shooting game, I believe them to be overcosted. You have acute senses which is useless as they dont have outflank and counter attack isn't much use if you are shot- which is what most armies are going to do to you. 3rd edition they were vastly overpriced at 18pts a model- which is why you didnt see many SW armies at all (they never got a 4th edition codex).

So 5th comes around- yeah, GH were good. LF were good. TWC were good- it made an overpowered codex at the time. That lasted 2 years and since then they have been middle of the pack, if you take out TWC they are definitely lower tier.

Their psychic powers are as bad as chaos. Their warlord traits- you're better off taking one of the generic in the rule book and their formations are underwhelming, certainly nothing like Tau, Eldar, SM, DA, Necron or KDK.

So GW gave them a unit of wulfen- are they fluffy- yes. Would they be great in shooting armies, perhaps, but SW dont shoot much anymore. In a normal SW list, TWC are arguably better. Frankly we didnt need another close combat unit, we needed our dreads put in line, and blood claws raised to WS4, and our scouts made to be useful again (actually any part of our codex other than TWC and Iron Priests). I and I would say many SW players were just hoping to gain some ground on the rest of our codex, rather than get another melee unit in a shooting environment. And I wasn't looking for OP units, I was looking for other units in the codex to be useful.

THey might be, more likely than not, SW will have a super detachment in the new book.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
2. They get more model releases than the other Marine factions. Blood Angels have Death Company, Sanguine Guard, and a couple of Dreads. Dark Angels have a couple of Biker and Terminator kits that function differently for their models. Space Wolves get Blood Claws, a couple of Dreads, Grey Hunters, their wolf stuff, their own Stormraven, and the upcoming 13th company stuff.

Well, firstly, from their inception SW have always been more visually distinctive which naturally means they get more kits (in the early days at least). When DA got more visually distinctive they also got some unique kits (though IMO not for the better )

Secondly, your list is silly. Blood Angels get...
BA Tactical Squad
BA Terminator Assault Squad
Baal Pred
Dreadnought (makes Furioso, Lib Dread, DC Dread)
Death Company
Sang. Guard.
Assorted Character models (several plastics)

Space Wolves get...
Space Wolf boxed set (makes Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard, so don't try and treat them separately)
WG Terminator squad
TWC
Fenrisian Wolves
Dreadnought (makes Venerable, Bjorn and Murderface)
Stormwolf/Stormfang
Assorted characters (all metal except Logan Claus)

They also had Long Fangs and Skyclaws, but I don't think you can count those separately because they're the same sprue from the regular SW boxed set combined with a regular Devastator/Assault Marine sprue. They're kit bashes, not unique kits.

So they're actually pretty much even on unique plastics prior to these hideous Wulfen models, SW have Logan Claus but no other plastic characters which BA have.

At the start of 3rd edition SW had 2 years without any codex and then got their 3rd edition codex which they had for a decade. GW weren't really paying any special attention to SW for all those years.

3. They get more special-snowflake good rules.

Since 1994 SW have had a different structure to regular SM. Not like many other chapters that have the same structure with some additions. Why did GW make it that way? I dunno, but it's been 22 fething years, get over it.

Most of the areas SW are better/worse than regular SM just come from GW's piss poor rules writing, not favouritism. Otherwise we would have gotten Stormravens, Centurions, Grav weapons, etc in addition to the special SW stuff rather than substituted for them.

It is not providing anything new (to us) but the official announcement was posted this morning

Friday 05 February 2016

White Dwarf 106



This week, White Dwarf is brimming with Space Wolves – we bring you the Wulfen, proud and savage warriors whose bodies and minds have succumbed to the effects of the Canis Helix, mutated and twisted into a bizarre combination of elite genetically engineered superhuman and feral, bitesome wolf. Loping into battle with fierce predatory instincts and sharpened claws, they hack and rend and snarl with unabated fury. White Dwarf 106 is out tomorrow in Games Workshop stores, independent stockists and right here on the Games Workshop web store.

Also in this issue:
• A complete stage-by-stage painting guide for the Wulfen in Paint Splatter.
• A lingering look at the incredible artwork to be found in War Zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen.
• We induct another classic Citadel miniature into the Hall of Fame – it’s an old/new favourite…
• Rules for the Space Wolves Wulfen.
• The Week in White Dwarf extols the virtues of the Wolf Lords, and has a look at a Mastodon’s innards. Yes, really.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/blog/blog.jsp



Automatically Appended Next Post:
But this is new - I just found it in the webstore

Nice new models


Link removed by GW

Reds8n

For the love of...

Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!

Well that's a scoop for dakka indeed! Very cool new characters, love the Iron Priest.

I'm expecting a drastic price increase on ebay for the old Ulrik Well, at least for me the current oop one looks soooo much better.

The Iron Priest, on the other hand...compared to the old model, ofc.

I like the techmarine, chaplain not so much.

 Mymearan wrote:
Well that's a scoop for dakka indeed! Very cool new characters, love the Iron Priest.

I consider it funny that people like Atia who complained about SpikeyBits not crediting her properly are also not crediting others at all - like now and several times before on B&C

I guess we know where the Helfrost Pistol and Tempest Hammer are options then.

Iron Priests!

 Kanluwen wrote:
For the love of...

Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!

To be fair, the current Iron Priest is a pretty old model (older than the current vanilla marines tech-marine in fact), as is Ulrik the Slayer.

I like both of these sculpts, but I feel Ulrik could have been a bit more dynamically posed, rather than just sat there like a limpet.

I guess the Tempest Hammer and Helfrost Pistol are Iron Priest items rather than new items for Ulrik like some people were thinking.

Nevelon wrote:I like the techmarine, chaplain not so much.

I'd like to see Ulrik better before I say too much, at this point I don't like his pose, but maybe if I see a 360 I might like it more.

Kanluwen wrote:For the love of...

Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!

Well Space Wolves needed a new Iron Priest, the old model is well over 20 years old.

I hope the rumours of Krom coming back are true, I really liked that model but missed out on the kit and there's no way I'm paying crazy ebay prices for him.

How come none has the WD already???

It is the cover of issue 107 which will be released on Feb 13

Oh those characters look sweet! Too bad my SW are up for sale still. I have s$^t timing :(

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I guess the Tempest Hammer and Helfrost Pistol are Iron Priest items rather than new items for Ulrik like some people were thinking.

Nevelon wrote:I like the techmarine, chaplain not so much.

I'd like to see Ulrik better before I say too much, at this point I don't like his pose, but maybe if I see a 360 I might like it more.

I really like Ulrik's pose. He is a nice blend of lordly and (for lack of a better term) inspiring presence.

Kanluwen wrote:For the love of...

Really? Space Wolves get a plastic Techmarine before they release a vanilla Techmarine in plastic!

Well Space Wolves needed a new Iron Priest, the old model is well over 20 years old.

I know...I'm just kinda bummed that they shafted my Raven Guard out of a Relic Jump Pack model by releasing that BA Chaplain, and when I'm looking at getting a Techmarine the Wolves get a super special one.

I hope the rumours of Krom coming back are true, I really liked that model but missed out on the kit and there's no way I'm paying crazy ebay prices for him.

How crazy are the eBay prices?