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...they charge when your opponent charges ^^

Warhams-77 wrote:
Space Wolves decurion confirmed - pic in the webshop

Link? On which item?

See above

Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

Interestingly GW just blocked the webstore preorder part, didnt they? Has someone still access to the Wulfen sprues and can post the direct links?

I will have high hopes for the blackmanes formation , it could be a chance to field Ragnar (fingers crossed)

Wyrdstorm Brotherhood - oh look, another Librarius Conclave

Requizen wrote:
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

QFT


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SlyasR wrote:
I will have high hopes for the blackmanes formation , it could be a chance to field Ragnar (fingers crossed)

Looks like he can be taken in place of the wolf lord. Looks like there is a little 3 there and when you look to the right, it looks like it says "or ragnar"

Requizen wrote:
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!

And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!

And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.

We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.

What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?
That counter charge is also VERY situational and to get it you lose all flexibility in list building. It's not possible to take a single tank or priest or dread. How many points do they think we are playing? It's nearly as craptastic as the Cadian one.

Let's see what the legendary greatpacks bring but I guess I'll stick to CAD or champions.

Requizen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!

And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.

We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.

If it's anything like the Guard treatment, then it'll be nothing to write home about...

We can pretty confirm that none of the supposedly "6 new dataslates", (re: word-for-word reprints of existing current rules), are getting anything of value. The Exalted Flamer for example is now confirmed to still somehow lose the ability to gain Gifts when not on his chariot?! (seriously, wtf is with that BS!?)
We know that the new psychic lores are just the current (at best average) lores with +3 spells.
We know that Tzeentch's lore is still hamstrumg by Warpflame & 7th taking a giant turd all over Witchfires in general.

Right now, there's no reason to be confidant that anything is going to be decent.

Just looking at the Auxiliary choices, none of them seem that amazing, until we get a good look at the bonuses.

-Spear of Russ: vehicle formations are always bleh and this one doesn't seem to be any exception since you have to take one Land Raider
-Fangs of the Tempest: Flyers are ok, nothing special though
-Ancients of the Fang: Dreadnaught Formation, meh
-Curseborn: MURDERFANG
-Wulfen Murderpack: Probably the go-to from what I've seen
-Wolfkin: Probably going to be something similar to the Drone Network - good if you just want a cheap Aux and maybe some gimmick.


So probably the Aux formation of choice will be the Wulfen and maybe one of the Flyers or the Wolves if they get something nice.

That NZ link has me nervous about the splitting of the "pack" pack. Curious whether I should bite the bullet and pick up the old one and bases if the prices are going up.

Ragnar69 wrote:
What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.

you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO

More NZ website piccies:

Ragnar69 wrote:What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?
That counter charge is also VERY situational and to get it you lose all flexibility in list building. It's not possible to take a single tank or priest or dread. How many points do they think we are playing? It's nearly as craptastic as the Cadian one.

Let's see what the legendary greatpacks bring but I guess I'll stick to CAD or champions.

All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Counter-Charge: HOLY BUTTS THAT'S NICE. Basically you're forced to multicharge SW units or they get to get in at you. Daaaang.

Howl of Wolves: Fear and Furious Charge. The former is meh, the latter is quite nice, but it's not quite the Battle Company bonus for taking two Core detachments.

God dammit! Yet ANOTHER Chaos perk that freaking Loyalists get to steal, and do 100x better than we do!

And the Exalted Flamer still can't take any Gifts when not on his Chariot?
Yep, this is going to be pointless for Daemons.

We haven't seen even the makeup of more than 2 formations for Daemons, nor the Detachment bonus or anything else. I don't think it's that bad.

If it's anything like the Guard treatment, then it'll be nothing to write home about...

We can pretty confirm that none of the supposedly "6 new dataslates", (re: word-for-word reprints of existing current rules), are getting anything of value. The Exalted Flamer for example is now confirmed to still somehow lose the ability to gain Gifts when not on his chariot?! (seriously, wtf is with that BS!?)
We know that the new psychic lores are just the current (at best average) lores with +3 spells.
We know that Tzeentch's lore is still hamstrumg by Warpflame & 7th taking a giant turd all over Witchfires in general.

Right now, there's no reason to be confidant that anything is going to be decent.

There's similarly no reason to cry, there are no nerfs, everything is exactly the same. Any formations can only be buffs or ignored, no Formation will make existing units worse. The only place that they can nerf Daemons would be if they changed the Artefacts, which we have no ideas about yet.

Daemons are already strong enough to be a top Tournament army even with a 6e book. This won't change that, even if they break the Grimoire it'll still be a top army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhams-77 wrote:
More NZ website piccies:

Spoiler:

That's a lot of Termies and Murderfang... probably not a formation worth the time lol.

 aracersss wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.

you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO

I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:


All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.

I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.

New decals close up





Wulfen Murderpack (hard to read) / Cover art / Wulfen sprue pics

Very nice bits! My modeler's heart is jumping!

Looks like the legs are mix and match, so you may not have to use the 'River Dance' pose.

Looks like units that are in range of several Wulfen units can get a 7+ on the Hunt/Kill charts...

did anyone get the feeling that you can repose all legs in different ways?

Ragnar69 wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.

you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO

I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.

Please... You can get your minimum with only 675pts for;
- Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf + Storm shield
- 3x TWC
- 3x5 Grey Hunters w/Meltagun + Combi-melta WGPL
- 5 Skyclaws w/2x Flamer
Plus whatever pts needed for how you prefer to run your mandatory Long Fang pack. That's easily workable into any list, gets a great perk that plays amazingly into how SW's in general prefer to fight. (ideal range of 12-24")
And your additional mandatory formation, let's face it, will likely be either a bunch of Wulfen or cheap Fenrisian Wolves.

It's still a hugely characterful and kick*** detachment, and one that Chaos players for example are definitely going to be insanely jealous of. (especially considering Wolves just stole one of our few remaining special rules...)

Plus it looks like SW's are getting their own version of the Librarius Conclave, so yet again, congrats on 1-up'ing Chaos on one of the last remaining strengths we still had left to us.

Ragnar69 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:


All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.

I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.

Having played with Beasts of Nurgle who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...

Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.

Free transports shouldnt be the standard but they were GW's solution to Marines fighting Tau, Eldar and Crons, armies that could out shoot marines and in many cases were more durable - quite frankly if you can't outshoot your opponent you better be more resilient than him. Not to mention SMs have object secured on everything.

I can't really read any of the text above, but since no one has listed anything that makes SW more durable or more shooty, from a competitive standpoint they havent gained any ground on the real 7th edition codexes. Unless they are suppose to just continue with the thunder wolf cav death star- evidently that is what it means to be a space wolf now, you ride a wolf (or I guess turn into a wolf).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having played with Beasts of Nurgle, who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...

Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.

Any army designed to outshoot their opponent could care less about furious charge and causing fear. So in general, Eldar, Tau, SM (for the most part now with the free shooty transports), DA and their bikes, and Crons. Nids do just fine without being assaulty, in fact I would say they are better with all their dakkafexes and multiple flyrants etc. So really who are we talking about- Chaos and Orks (surely not dark eldar). Honestly, did SW need furious charge to be successful against Chaos and Orks with Thunderwolves? Not really. Are 5- man grey hunter squads really ever going to use fearless and furious charge, 5 models? What does +1 strength allow 5 guys to take on that they couldnt with str 4- not that it isnt easy to just shoot and kill 5 marines.

What about the conclave. CSM sorcerers can achieve level 3 right? Rune Priests only can achieve level 2 and their psychic deck is horrible. Unless they allow Rune Priests to take level 3, it won't really matter, you can't generate enough dice to make them viable.

So really all those cheap squads of GHs dont really benefit at all and neither do the 5 man squads of assault claws as they have no resiliency at all, it is much different when taking a min sized squad that can shoot and has bonuses to shoot. 5 man squads of basic marines wont make it into combat and are easily just shot and killed, they wont ever get to counter charge, that is their problem right now, counter charge isn't a big deal on a generic space marine statline. Against big stuff where it does make a difference, your opponent realizes this and just shoots you, or brings something bigger to the party that doesnt care.

Certainly you are entitled to your own opinion, but mine is, if they dont get any added durability, the power rankings aren't changing and they are still below the 7.5 codexes and slighly above the others because of thunderwolves. No one is saying Furious Charge and Fear are worthless, but compared to free units, a free FNP plus save, extra shooting and BS, and all the extras Tau got, it is pretty craptastic. Obviously you play Chaos, how many points is fear worth when someone is shooting you and anything you get into cc with you are going to beat anyways?

Experiment 626 wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
What a joke! Fear and Furious Charge instead of 8 free transports?!?.

you can't be serious that free transports everywhere should be standard oO

I don't want free units, but definitely something better than this. You have to invest lots of points to meet the prerequisites, and many at really subpar units. I take a unit of Claws from time to time (I even right now assemble a second 15 men squad), but certainly not because they are useful.

Please... You can get your minimum with only 675pts for;
- Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf + Storm shield
- 3x TWC
- 3x5 Grey Hunters w/Meltagun + Combi-melta WGPL
- 5 Skyclaws w/2x Flamer
Plus whatever pts needed for how you prefer to run your mandatory Long Fang pack. That's easily workable into any list, gets a great perk that plays amazingly into how SW's in general prefer to fight. (ideal range of 12-24")
And your additional mandatory formation, let's face it, will likely be either a bunch of Wulfen or cheap Fenrisian Wolves.

It's still a hugely characterful and kick*** detachment, and one that Chaos players for example are definitely going to be insanely jealous of. (especially considering Wolves just stole one of our few remaining special rules...)

Plus it looks like SW's are getting their own version of the Librarius Conclave, so yet again, congrats on 1-up'ing Chaos on one of the last remaining strengths we still had left to us.

Ragnar69 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Requizen wrote:


All Multiple Formation Detachments have this. You have to take non-optimal choices but you get bonuses. Or you take the CAD and get ObSec but none of the fancy buffs. Every 7.5e codex so far has made that decision.

I know. But these bonuses are not worth it. Let's see what the formation themselves bring, but these command benefits could as well be ignored.

Having played with Beasts of Nurgle who have the exact same counter-assault rules that SW's have now stolen, I can promise you that there is nothing ignorable about those Command benefits...
Sure, Tau & Eldar don't care much. But SW's can now just laugh at every other assault army in the game, especially the likes of Chaos in general, Orks, Tyranids, BA's, Templars, etc...

Claiming that 'free' counter assaults & army-wide Furious Charge as meaningless is disingenuous at best.

For Furious Charge you need the double amount of models and they are all on foot. And Long Fangs....let's say I have a special relationship with them. In the last tourney they killed more in melee than with shooting, I m just unlucky with them (and plasma weapons )
That "bunch of Wulfen" cost you easily 500 points when decently equipped and the cheap option of fenrisian wolves will just be laughed of the board. Hell, even a mob of trukkboyz prolly wipes them in one salvo.

I'm in a sad situation that my only gaming opportunities come from a few tourneys a year. You can count with one finger how many close combat armies I meet there.

But whats funny: by switching the grey hunters for land speeders you can go sort of Ravenwing

I have the feeling that GW don't like Grey Hunters any more.
All rules and the Decurion benefit Blood Claws more.

And the Auxiliary is a joke.

I can only play 1 unit of Scouts per Decurion, I have to buy a (new) Iron Priest and a Land Raider to get a Whirlwind (wtf), while I must take Blood Claws, I have to choose between Grey Hunters and Land Speeders (just take less of what ever you take) and of course the new Wulfen are a 2-5 choice.


I play Space Wolves since the exist, and somehow I like the new rules because finally I can kick some ass again, but this are not the Wolves I played and loved so many years.

So back to the painting station, put some colour on unpainted models and make a generic Chapter.

PS:
For the List:
3 Units of Wulfen, 2 Units of Swift Claws, 2 Units of Skyclaws, 2x TWC, Wolflord, Battle Leader, 2x Long Fang, 3 Landspeeder
depending on the points, add some Dreadnoughts in DropPod's

 kodos wrote:
I have the feeling that GW don't like Grey Hunters any more.
All rules and the Decurion benefit Blood Claws more.

And the Auxiliary is a joke.

I can only play 1 unit of Scouts per Decurion, I have to buy a (new) Iron Priest and a Land Raider to get a Whirlwind (wtf), while I must take Blood Claws, I have to choose between Grey Hunters and Land Speeders (just take less of what ever you take) and of course the new Wulfen are a 2-5 choice.


I play Space Wolves since the exist, and somehow I like the new rules because finally I can kick some ass again, but this are not the Wolves I played and loved so many years.

So back to the painting station, put some colour on unpainted models and make a generic Chapter.

We still have hope that there are formations from the other 12 Great Companies right??? Or are we stuck with furious charge and fear for all formations? I didn't think it could get worse from the last codex and champions of fenris.

I was kinda hoping for a TWC formation. Instead you get the option for just one unit per core. Kinda lame. Though one of the special great companies is likely composed of primarily TWC.