Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, in WMH I can buy a blister each weak for about 10 to 20 Euro and this doesnt hurt my wallet .But in 40k, the prices start at 23 Euro for a (finecast) HQ model. Units are a different story.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
40K feels expensive because it is.
For comparison let us look at other TTG's which are also popular today:

40K - Buy in cost:
usually varies between £250 and £400 for a 2000 point army and supplies although some elitist armies can be purchased for around £200
Rules:
Flat and full of massive errors, inconsistencies and odd points. They offer a limited tactical depth and are often considered overly complex. Also allow for the dreaded turn 1 alpha strike and are so full of exceptions and contrary writings that no one can agree on many points.
Models:
Expensive and vary massively in quality. Some, like Elizabeth Von Carstien, are beautiful but others such as the new AoS stuff are terrible and others like the Cadians and the Chaos marine box sets are showing their age. What is more the pricing of these kits is considered very high, such as the basic Cadian Guardsman costing £2 a model and SM's costing £2.20 a model. For single miniatures this goes up even further with a single Marine character costing over £12.

Warmahordes - Buy in cost
Varies between £80 and £90 for a full tournament army and supplies. Some can be a little more or less but these are exceptions.
Rules:
Good and well designed with plenty of tactical depth. Almost no disputes arise from them.
Models:
Vary slightly, some are good whilst others are a little plain or clunky. The newer kits are improving though. Whilst some are a little pricey per mini the newer restic kits are better priced. They do suffer from being largely monopose though.

Bolt Action - Buy in cost
£70 for a full tournament level plus extra units army plus the factions army book and another £25 for the rulebook.
Rules:
Very well built and allow for a good and in depth game. Some minor issues such as the pricing of Infantry LMG teams and other such units do exist but overall they are good. The activation system also helps prevent alpha strikes and forces players to think carefully as they do not know who is going next.
Models:
Whilst some of the older ones do show their age the newer ones are superb and they are getting better and better. A single £24 box set buys you 25 to 30 plastic multipose figures and includes the options to make HQ units, weapon teams and Infantry Sections.

So yes, just by comparing it to those two games 40K is expensive and their are other games out there which are even cheaper to get started in.
GW need to dramatically change their pricings and writing team or risk losing to the vast number of newer games and companies that exist.

I think your writeup is very very biased against 40K.

40K has the best customization, converting, painting and modeling community.

There are many many blogs of people collecting, converting and painting up 40k armies - and all of these are theme/fluff based and don't care so much if the rules for them are good or not or if the units themselves are good or not.

40k has the best fluff also - somewhere between 100 and 200 novels, codexes etc that have created an incredibly rich background.

People get so obsessed with the fluff, they will collect and paint an army just to recreate some very remote unit or regiment in one of those stories.

I would say it is quite a different beast than Warmahordes/Bolt Action etc. and that it fulfills something quite different that people are trying to get out of the hobby.

40k is for people who want to immerse themselves into another universe.

I would say if you are more interested in tight rules, balanced play, cut throat/tactical gameplay then 40k might not be for you.

Now you see my write up does seem biased UNTIL:

1) You realise that Warlord Games plastics are ripe for conversion, as are the Perry Brothers plastics and many other companies

2) The converting, painting and modelling community is actually populated by historical modellers. Case examples being the author of 'Panzer Modeling Master Class' or the many different modellers whom submit their conversions and work to Warlord Games. Conversions such as the Yugoslav PAK40 Stuart or the Erzatz Stug or the SDFFZ 251/21 conversion and many more are rife there.

3) I was comparing the price and the quality/quantity for price and this is an area in which GW constantly fails to provide.

4) there are just as many, if not more, blogs about people collecting non GW models.

Fluffwise, when it comes down to it GW just scrapped half of their established fluff and the 40K fluff is constantly changing with case points being the vast disparity of weapons and equipment and how they work. Some novels have Leman Russ tanks firing small atmomic warheads whilst others have them hurling AP and HE warheads. In one a Tau fire warrior kills a Space Marine where as others portray masses of explosives and huge volleys of HW fire being needed and others still have Space Marines forces being vulnerable only to another Space Marine.
That said I can understand why people like it and I do enjoy the Gaunts Ghosts novels myself.

However as I stated above I was not comparing established background, etc, but instead I was comparing price and quality, an area in which 40K and GW as a whole fail.

As someone who enjoys playing far more than the hobby side of the game part of what makes the game feel expensive to me is how much I value my time.

Unlike in something like magic, 40k requires effort to make changes to an army.
If I value my time, then needing to constantly rebuild and paint an army is a big drain on resources.

now this is not a problem if you don't care about competing but if you do it often requires a lot of time. Which equates for me to a lot of value.

So I'm with you on this Breng especially trying to build a competitive army from point zero currently, but don't you eventually develop a big enough back stock to kind of interchange things as needed? Sort of like in Magic where eventually your collection grows big enough to play multiple formats and decks, with only a few needed updates each set.

I feel like that depends on several factors.

1.) Do you build out a list or build out a faction? If you only build say an 1850 list for competitive purposes, and don't purchase additional in faction models you can be forced to start from scratch depending on changes. IF you build out a faction you may have enough choices to not need to buy and paint new things at the time of change (though to be fair you already bought and painted more in the first place).

2.) If you build out a faction does it stay competitive? If I started in 5e with IG and built out that faction, I 'm now stuck needing to buy an new faction to compete.


3.) Do you have large collections in multiple factions? This can help avoid #2, but again now you spend significantly more time and money already.

Essentially what it comes down to for me, if you are a collector of everything in the game, you become mostly immune to changes, if not and you are a player who builds an army, then it becomes exceedingly frustrating. Now the pendulm may swing back around to what you have being good...but it also might not.

The reason I stick to building fluff armies now is because I realized if I wanna be competitive in each edition, I basically have to re-buy my entire army every time there's a codex release. There's little building on what i had before as a combination of nerfings and buffs means that a lot of my old items are invalidated (like, my tyranids initially had to have it's fexes replaced with Tervigons and trygons in 5th ed, then these had to be replaced again with Flyrants and, ironically, the very fexes I had to give up before, but now they need an arm transplant. I just gave up at this point).

On top of which the cost of buying the new codexes and rulebooks.

Or new units/combos like the cent star or scat bikes that involves purchasing new models.

 Tinkrr wrote:


In short, I feel like 40k only feels expensive because of how little use it really has, it's not like other games where you can just always have someone to play with, but rather it's a game that puts a massive burden on you to just get a game going, which makes it seem significantly more expensive than it really is.

Pending on where you live, this changes. All I have to do to get a game going is post on facebook. Generally Ill have a game that day or the next day. There is no burden whatsoever to get a game in.

In terms of building up an army, 40k is rather easier than typical historical mass battle games that require considerably more figures to be prepared.

Why does this game feel so expensive?

Simple...

Mob mentality.

 oni wrote:
Why does this game feel so expensive?

Simple...

Mob mentality.

See, while that could explain some of it, I have other more expensive hobbies, that have the same stigma but usually from others in the hobby that don't play that specific format, while those that do don't feel it's expensive despite it being such. This does not seem to be the same for 40k :/

Racing cars and bikes is expensive.

Scrap booking is expensive.

Travel is expensive.

Collector Plates from the Bradford Exchange is expensive.

Decorating your house like the Griswolds for every damn holiday like my neighbor is expensive (seriously, who decorates for Arbor Day?).

Pick a hobby. It's as expensive or inexpensive as you make it, to some degree.

Except dating. Chicks be expensive, yo!

 chaosmarauder wrote:

I think your writeup is very very biased against 40K.

And with respect, what you write here, whilst not necessarily uninformed of other games , well it seems to have a very narrow focus that seeks to ignore them- you ascribe things solely to 40k when they exist in all games.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40K has the best customization, converting, painting and modeling community.

It has the largest customisation, converting, painting and modelling community. By dint of being the more played game and therefore a larger player base.To be fair, I’ve seen some stunningly painted and converted 40k armies, but then again, I have seen far too many ‘grey legions’ as well. The opposite is true too – I have seen some staggeringly beautiful WMH and infinity armies – whether converted or painted (google the Khador HMS griffon, stormhammer: the assault on Sul, the legion of mechablight for some examples). PP run conversion and painting contests in their magazine, and in the last few years, you are starting to see some truly stunning armies hitting the table top.

Seems to me that creative types will be creative, regardless of the game.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

There are many many blogs of people collecting, converting and painting up 40k armies - and all of these are theme/fluff based and don't care so much if the rules for them are good or not or if the units themselves are good or not.

This is an true in other communities as well – plenty folks play, collect and paint factions because they like the theme/lore in WMH. Heck, there are folks that run specific theme lists in WMH, build lore-based armies and also don’t care as to the power level.

Seems like a gamer thing to me, rather than a ‘gamers of a specific game’ thing.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40k has the best fluff also - somewhere between 100 and 200 novels, codexes etc that have created an incredibly rich background.
People get so obsessed with the fluff, they will collect and paint an army just to recreate some very remote unit or regiment in one of those stories.

No, I have to disagree with you here.

40k has the most published lore. Quantity does not equal quality, especially when so much of 40k’s lore boils down to fairly juvenile ‘bolter porn’, last stands, ‘glory to the…’ and ‘death to the…’. Very little of it is new, and often just slightly expanded versions of the stories released twenty years ag in second Ed. The lore itself gets given far more credit than it deserves as well, if you ask me-and I say that as a fan of quite a bit of it-heck the three imperial armour ‘siege of vraks’ books can be boiled down to ‘the guard won because they threw more bodies into the flight than the defenders had bullets’. It's a lot of broad strokes and often little depth.
And for what it’s worth, you are doing a disservice to the lore of other games – privateer press for example have been writing up the lore for their iron kingdoms for about 15years now, and its become a very deep, rich, gritty and characterful world with thousands of years of history to it, along with a great cast of heroes and villains. I was genuinely surprised at how brilliant it was when I first dived into it – I can't ups almost smell the coal fires when I got into it. you wouldn’t be making a mistake by jumping in.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

People get so obsessed with the fluff, they will collect and paint an army just to recreate some very remote unit or regiment in one of those stories.

People do the same in warmachine – google the khador fifth border legion as the most obvious example. Generally though, since it's a character driven game, folks tend to be cheerleaders for their favourite characters - I know I jump for joy when the butcher or strakhov make an appearance. And yes, I will build armies just for those characters, and I'm not the,only one.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

I would say it is quite a different beast than Warmahordes/Bolt Action etc. and that it fulfills something quite different that people are trying to get out of the hobby.

It’s a different beast for sure, and is far grander in scale than the other games you mention. There will always be something engrossing about 40k’s IP.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40k is for people who want to immerse themselves into another universe.

As is warmachine and every other wargame out there, whether historical, fantasy or sci-fi. 40k is not anything unique in this. Plenty people are just as enthralled imagining the eras when Hannibal or Caesar strode this earth like a colossus as others are imagining marneus calgar or eldrad ulthran fighting in the forty first millennium, or the butcher of khador leading the charge that took the fortress of ravenguard.

I think it's important to focus on the actual question being asked. It's not "Is the game expensive?" "It's " Why does this game feel so expensive?"

It's a very strong point as I find myself in a similar space as the OP. I happily drop far more money on LCGs, board games, WMH etc.

For me it comes down to value for my money. The price of the kits and rules for 40k just don't reflect money well spent anymore. The rules are expensive and poorly written (comparing the YMDC forums for 40k and WMHs is staggering. 40k threads go in circles for many pages until people tire of the argument or a mod locks them. Not one WMH thread reaches a second page!)

While definitely subjective I have not liked the direction the plastic kits have been taking and the prices (especially when weighed against how many are needed) just don't feel like a sound purchase anymore.

I still do hand GW money though. But it is exclusively for FW products as I still value their approach to the 30k rules and their resin kits are both nicer aesthetically (IMO) and barely more expensive than GW expects for their plastics.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am pretty sure it feels expensive because it is expensive.

It's all relative. It all really depends on your hobbies. There are single cards in MTG that cost more than an entire 40K army (and it isn't that rare to see them in play especially at Legacy tournaments). I've also seen several people who just love board games. I knew a guy who, before he had a child, would buy usually at least one new board game per week... sometimes those board games would be $25. Sometimes, they would be $100. I knew a guy who invested in probably at least several hundred dollars (if not over a thousand) in Star Trek Attack Wing (ships, bases, prize support ships from eBay, etc.). There are several other games that cost a good bit... for example, a high end set of three darts costs around $250+ if I remember correctly. The cost of a video game console and a handful of games will run you $500 to $600 easily.

Relatively speaking, for what you get out of it (hours upon hours upon hours of entertainment if you're a hobbyist and/or a player), 40K really isn't that expensive. Again, it's all relative.

SG

Deadnight wrote:

 chaosmarauder wrote:

I think your writeup is very very biased against 40K.

And with respect, what you write here, whilst not necessarily uninformed of other games , well it seems to have a very narrow focus that seeks to ignore them- you ascribe things solely to 40k when they exist in all games.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40K has the best customization, converting, painting and modeling community.

It has the largest customisation, converting, painting and modelling community. By dint of being the more played game and therefore a larger player base.To be fair, I’ve seen some stunningly painted and converted 40k armies, but then again, I have seen far too many ‘grey legions’ as well. The opposite is true too – I have seen some staggeringly beautiful WMH and infinity armies – whether converted or painted (google the Khador HMS griffon, stormhammer: the assault on Sul, the legion of mechablight for some examples). PP run conversion and painting contests in their magazine, and in the last few years, you are starting to see some truly stunning armies hitting the table top.

Seems to me that creative types will be creative, regardless of the game.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

There are many many blogs of people collecting, converting and painting up 40k armies - and all of these are theme/fluff based and don't care so much if the rules for them are good or not or if the units themselves are good or not.

This is an true in other communities as well – plenty folks play, collect and paint factions because they like the theme/lore in WMH. Heck, there are folks that run specific theme lists in WMH, build lore-based armies and also don’t care as to the power level.

Seems like a gamer thing to me, rather than a ‘gamers of a specific game’ thing.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40k has the best fluff also - somewhere between 100 and 200 novels, codexes etc that have created an incredibly rich background.
People get so obsessed with the fluff, they will collect and paint an army just to recreate some very remote unit or regiment in one of those stories.

No, I have to disagree with you here.

40k has the most published lore. Quantity does not equal quality, especially when so much of 40k’s lore boils down to fairly juvenile ‘bolter porn’, last stands, ‘glory to the…’ and ‘death to the…’. Very little of it is new, and often just slightly expanded versions of the stories released twenty years ag in second Ed. The lore itself gets given far more credit than it deserves as well, if you ask me-and I say that as a fan of quite a bit of it-heck the three imperial armour ‘siege of vraks’ books can be boiled down to ‘the guard won because they threw more bodies into the flight than the defenders had bullets’. It's a lot of broad strokes and often little depth.
And for what it’s worth, you are doing a disservice to the lore of other games – privateer press for example have been writing up the lore for their iron kingdoms for about 15years now, and its become a very deep, rich, gritty and characterful world with thousands of years of history to it, along with a great cast of heroes and villains. I was genuinely surprised at how brilliant it was when I first dived into it – I can't ups almost smell the coal fires when I got into it. you wouldn’t be making a mistake by jumping in.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

People get so obsessed with the fluff, they will collect and paint an army just to recreate some very remote unit or regiment in one of those stories.

People do the same in warmachine – google the khador fifth border legion as the most obvious example. Generally though, since it's a character driven game, folks tend to be cheerleaders for their favourite characters - I know I jump for joy when the butcher or strakhov make an appearance. And yes, I will build armies just for those characters, and I'm not the,only one.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

I would say it is quite a different beast than Warmahordes/Bolt Action etc. and that it fulfills something quite different that people are trying to get out of the hobby.

It’s a different beast for sure, and is far grander in scale than the other games you mention. There will always be something engrossing about 40k’s IP.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

40k is for people who want to immerse themselves into another universe.

As is warmachine and every other wargame out there, whether historical, fantasy or sci-fi. 40k is not anything unique in this. Plenty people are just as enthralled imagining the eras when Hannibal or Caesar strode this earth like a colossus as others are imagining marneus calgar or eldrad ulthran fighting in the forty first millennium, or the butcher of khador leading the charge that took the fortress of ravenguard.

At my local game scene people playing warmachine tend to put a lot less effort or none at all into their armies and always seems to approach the game as a game of chess with the sole purpose of outmaneuvering their opponent (nothing wrong with that just a different style than what I see of 40k) - The 40kers tend to spend a lot more time talking about painting techniques etc and seem to approach their games from a more fluffy/narrative perspective. I think mostly because 40k has a lot more random elements to it.

Probably not the way it is everywhere just saying how I see it here.

 chaosmarauder wrote:

At my local game scene people playing warmachine tend to put a lot less effort or none at all into their armies and always seems to approach the game as a game of chess with the sole purpose of outmaneuvering their opponent (nothing wrong with that just a different style than what I see of 40k) - The 40kers tend to spend a lot more time talking about painting techniques etc and seem to approach their games from a more fluffy/narrative perspective. I think mostly because 40k has a lot more random elements to it.

Probably not the way it is everywhere just saying how I see it here.

Which is fair enough - every scene is different. I think sometimes people (not talking about you now ) make the mistake of making sweeping generalisations of 'the hobby' based entirely on what their local scene is like, and I don't necessarily think this is a fair or accurate way of viewing things in the 'bigger picture'.

I know warmachine players who put no effort into their aemies - then again, there is the other end of the scale. I will not play anything unpainted. I frequently convert - my female Fenris, various doom reaver, caster and war dog conversions always take pride of place. Some of my peers have some stunningly beautiful armies done up. Further more I see enough other examples on the interwebs to know I am not unique in this. I know enough 40k players who are soley interested in the power aspect of their game and pushing that as far as it can go, fluff be damned. Then again, I know plenty who like the lore as well. But I see exactly the same thing in other games too.

FYI, I was in my local gw the other day and struck up a conversation with one of the staffers - I was there for some brushes (my wash brush is old and down to about its last three bristles - needed a new one!) and a paint pot (abandon black) and we got talking about battle at calth and that I was interested in picking it up (I am ) - this evolved into a great chat with a big focus on the painting aspect - basically what brushes were good for what and how to get the sons of Horus 'green' just right along with their heresy gaming group. Quite enjoyed the chat actually. I was surprised in a way because if not got this chat from a gw in a long time (normally it's along the lines of 'buy this!') but it was nice to see the painting and modelling aspect pushed to the top like that

It mainly feels expensive to me because I collect a wide variety of games, and have seen first hand that GW is not always the best quality for the money.

Warlord's new Bolt Action kits, especially their USMC and Japs, blow anything Imperial guard related out of the water, with far more bits, better poses, the ability to build many of the core units you need for an army, and far more dynamic poses. With online discounts, you can often get 30 plastic bolt action minis for the cost of a 10 man cadian box. Not to mention 2 boxes of bolt action infantry will get you 90% of an army made, literally all you'll need is another couple blister packs or a tank. Now, if GW acknowledged that the cadian box were crap models and sold 20 for ~$30, that wouldn't be so bad, but they consistently jack up the price for a model that wasn't improved in any way and which I guarantee you has already paid for its mold.

If we jump onto Dreamforge's Valkir (their "space marine" equivalent heavy infantry) you can get double the models for the price of a 10 man space marine box. Quality is roughly similar, options are a bit less for the valkir depending on the box you get, but still GW is lacking behind in quality you get for your dollar. Not to mention the vast differences between the knight and the dreamforge leviathans and yet the leviathans are still cheaper while being fully posable and being purpose built for weapon swaps.

Simply put, GW isn't the best of the best in model quality any more, their quality is just all over the place. For every Skitarii trooper kit, you have a Catachan one. For every one of those really good looking character models like the Dominus techpriest that hits a good balance between detailed but ultimately clean design, you have models like the wulfen 13th company or that skullgrinder super heavy thing chaos got that looked like it fell into a tub of glue and bits and is far too busy.

GW is charging premium prices for what is most of the time a not particularly premium product, and gamers are starting to notice this. This of course completely ignoring the codexes, which feel like a massive ripoff at that price. I read scans of them online to see if they've gotten any better occasionally and I even feel ripped off then. I can't imagine what it would feel like to pay $50 for one and then find that out after it was too late to take it back.

If GW's quality was as good as they claim it is, people would have no problems paying it. FW, Victoria lamb, Kromlech, etc. Prove that time and again people will gladly pay for premium product.

Buying GW feels like buying a mustang only to find out it has a ford focus engine in it.

It's pricey, but for every $40 kit I buy, that's hours and hours of fun painting and assembling them (as I enjoy that part of the hobby immensely) and then literally countless hours playing with the models. For me, it's worth it, since I enjoy the game, aesthetic, and universe. I wish it was cheaper, but I can afford the habit.

If it feels to expensive for you, then it probably is to expensive for you. People are willing to spend money on a hobby/things they like doing. If you think it is expensive maybe it is time to look for another hobby? If you are always chasing the "new hotness" it might also feel expensive. If you just slowly collect and play a consistent army the expensive feel is reduced quite a bit. I collect and play orks. I think I have bought a grand total of 4 new kits at retail price. Everything else in my collection I have bought from others at a significant discount.

Loborocket wrote:
If it feels to expensive for you, then it probably is to expensive for you. People are willing to spend money on a hobby/things they like doing. If you think it is expensive maybe it is time to look for another hobby? If you are always chasing the "new hotness" it might also feel expensive. If you just slowly collect and play a consistent army the expensive feel is reduced quite a bit. I collect and play orks. I think I have bought a grand total of 4 new kits at retail price. Everything else in my collection I have bought from others at a significant discount.

No, maybe it's time to look for a new game.

GW =/= the hobby.
GW being expensive =/= wargaming is expensive.

As someone who enjoys playing far more than the hobby side of the game part of what makes the game feel expensive to me is how much I value my time.

40k, it costs your money, it costs your time, it costs your life (wife).

Loborocket wrote:
If you think it is expensive maybe it is time to look for another hobby?

Umm.... Because with the exception of GW the hobby - that is to say the hobby of collecting, building/converting and panting miniatures and the hobby of playing wargames with said miniatures - is not actually that expensive? None GW companies make far superior kits at a fraction of the price and many also make balanced high quality rules for games using the miniatures which they produce which are affordable and the games themselves have a low startup cost.
Compare this to GW whom charge vast sums of money for their average to low quality kits and sell unbalanced and poorly written rules for vast sums as well. Hell, for the price of a single Leman Russ kit I can get a 1/35th scale Churchill MKIII with interior detailing, actual springs for the suspension and a turned metal gun barrel. And several different options, including Russian modifications and sand filters.
Compare and then comment.

Ok. My mistake. Maybe it is time for you to move on to another GAME if 40k is too expensive. Please, move on to another game. One you find exceptional in all facets, and spend all of your time on it rather than time spent wishing and hoping 40k meets all of your expectations. 40k is not for everyone. Some feel it it too expensive, some feel the rules are terrible, or both. If you are one of those 40k is NOT for you. Find you real passion and go persue that.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I don't mean why is this game so expensive, I mean why does it feel so expensive. One thing I looked at was how much my investment into 40k would cost as a whole, and how much my investment into my other hobbies would cost, one being Magic: the Gathering, and honestly, I've spent more on Magic than I would ever on 40k, and I don't feel any issue with it, but I feel rather stingy when it comes to 40k. More so, I've spent a ton on free games like League and Hearthstone without feeling bad about it, though every small purchase in 40k leaves me feeling drained. The obvious answer is that all those purchases are small purchases, so they don't feel as bad as a 50$ kit from 40k, though I've bought individual cards worth over 400$. Now you can say they will retain value, and even grow, but in some cases I fully intended to never sell them, but rather keep them, generally in the 200$ range, but the more expensive ones I did sell.

Here's my thoughts on why I think 40k feels so expensive, the simple answer being that the game isn't good enough to justify the price. Look at it this way, when I buy my Magic cards, I'm either drafting which means I'm using the product right then and there, or I'm playing a constructed format. Even the more niche formats I can find a tournament at least once a month in my area, if not more, but I can't say the same about 40k, in fact I want to play in ITC events but looking at the map there are 0 events in the Boston area in the near future, with the closest being in other neighboring states that are several hours of driving away. With Magic there were local small scale events every day of the week, I could decide when I played and how I played, at what store I played, and then there were larger events each weekend of different types, in fact even with those I was spoiled for choice most of the time. With 40k, sure I can probably find people in my area to play against, but because the rules are dependent on house rules I have to go out of my way to negotiate things, just to set up a game with one person, and this simply isn't the case with other gaming hobbies, or well any hobbies, where in most cases you can show up to an LGS or club and play a game with complete strangers without having to know them.

In short, I feel like 40k only feels expensive because of how little use it really has, it's not like other games where you can just always have someone to play with, but rather it's a game that puts a massive burden on you to just get a game going, which makes it seem significantly more expensive than it really is.

What do you guys think? What makes 40k feel expensive to you? I know I always thought it was overpriced, but when I sat down and thought about it, I realised it wasn't that it was overpriced, it was just that the game aspect of it wasn't good enough to make me feel safe for the price I was paying, reasonable or not.

I live in your area. I don't know what it is, but MA as a whole, can't hold onto gamestores and 40k, eventhough, there's a huge following. Players everywhere, just no stores or products. Strange.

Loborocket wrote:
Ok. My mistake. Maybe it is time for you to move on to another GAME if 40k is too expensive. Please, move on to another game. One you find exceptional in all facets, and spend all of your time on it rather than time spent wishing and hoping 40k meets all of your expectations. 40k is not for everyone. Some feel it it too expensive, some feel the rules are terrible, or both. If you are one of those 40k is NOT for you. Find you real passion and go persue that.

If you do not feel the game is expensive, it would be interesting to hear about your reasons, as relevant to the topic.

 Mark1130 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I don't mean why is this game so expensive, I mean why does it feel so expensive. One thing I looked at was how much my investment into 40k would cost as a whole, and how much my investment into my other hobbies would cost, one being Magic: the Gathering, and honestly, I've spent more on Magic than I would ever on 40k, and I don't feel any issue with it, but I feel rather stingy when it comes to 40k. More so, I've spent a ton on free games like League and Hearthstone without feeling bad about it, though every small purchase in 40k leaves me feeling drained. The obvious answer is that all those purchases are small purchases, so they don't feel as bad as a 50$ kit from 40k, though I've bought individual cards worth over 400$. Now you can say they will retain value, and even grow, but in some cases I fully intended to never sell them, but rather keep them, generally in the 200$ range, but the more expensive ones I did sell.

Here's my thoughts on why I think 40k feels so expensive, the simple answer being that the game isn't good enough to justify the price. Look at it this way, when I buy my Magic cards, I'm either drafting which means I'm using the product right then and there, or I'm playing a constructed format. Even the more niche formats I can find a tournament at least once a month in my area, if not more, but I can't say the same about 40k, in fact I want to play in ITC events but looking at the map there are 0 events in the Boston area in the near future, with the closest being in other neighboring states that are several hours of driving away. With Magic there were local small scale events every day of the week, I could decide when I played and how I played, at what store I played, and then there were larger events each weekend of different types, in fact even with those I was spoiled for choice most of the time. With 40k, sure I can probably find people in my area to play against, but because the rules are dependent on house rules I have to go out of my way to negotiate things, just to set up a game with one person, and this simply isn't the case with other gaming hobbies, or well any hobbies, where in most cases you can show up to an LGS or club and play a game with complete strangers without having to know them.

In short, I feel like 40k only feels expensive because of how little use it really has, it's not like other games where you can just always have someone to play with, but rather it's a game that puts a massive burden on you to just get a game going, which makes it seem significantly more expensive than it really is.

What do you guys think? What makes 40k feel expensive to you? I know I always thought it was overpriced, but when I sat down and thought about it, I realised it wasn't that it was overpriced, it was just that the game aspect of it wasn't good enough to make me feel safe for the price I was paying, reasonable or not.

I live in your area. I don't know what it is, but MA as a whole, can't hold onto gamestores and 40k, eventhough, there's a huge following. Players everywhere, just no stores or products. Strange.

See, I hear that about the Boston area, I even hear about active Facebook groups and more, but every time I try to track one down I can't find anything or it's someone who recently quit. Heck, there's a ring around us of ITC events (although not many) in neighboring states. It's infuriating, like a wild goose chase with no end.

Meanwhile I keep gettin invited to infinite active magic groups since I've moved around the state so much and like every city has their own group.

 Tinkrr wrote:
there are 0 events in the Boston area in the near future, with the closest being in other neighboring states that are several hours of driving away.

It takes 2 hours to drive to Connecticut. The last event here had over 30 players show up
https://www.facebook.com/events/786646684815416/

While a 2 hour drive does kind of suck when compared to playing softball games, it's just part of being in a more niche' hobby. I also drive 1 hour to go to Karate tournaments for the same reason.

If you show up at the portal event, I'll buy you lunch to help lessen the sting of the drive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Runic wrote:
The most likely culprit is a deeply embedded presumption that Warhammer 40,000 is more expensive than anything on the planet (which is not far off from what some claim).

It's really not.

I take Karate and my monthly fee is $100. In addition to that there are belt tests which averages another $12 a month. Then there are tournaments a few times per year, which are about $70 to participate in.
That means each year I'm shelling out $1,484 dollars to be active member attending classes 3 times a week and normal events.

Buying, assembling and painting 1-2 kits a month costs less. If you are constantly buying new armies, 40k is more expensive, but if you just keep up what you have it's not to bad.

Oh, and resist the urge to sell your armies if they are no longer 'competitive'. I've made that mistake to many times

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
there are 0 events in the Boston area in the near future, with the closest being in other neighboring states that are several hours of driving away.

It takes 2 hours to drive to Connecticut. The last event here had over 30 players show up
https://www.facebook.com/events/786646684815416/

While a 2 hour drive does kind of suck when compared to playing softball games, it's just part of being in a more niche' hobby. I also drive 1 hour to go to Karate tournaments for the same reason.

If you show up at the portal event, I'll buy you lunch to help lessen the sting of the drive.

There are a couple problems with that, the first being that while I've made that drive before for Magic events, I made it while having prior testing. With 40k, I'd be essentially driving to do testing as it's not really possible in my area.

The other problem is I don't really drive, I mean I have a license but I don't enjoy the act of driving and don't currently own a car as a result. I guess I could rent a car, I certainly have the means for it, but it would be longer than a two hour drive for me probably. With other events I generally know enough people going that travel isn't a problem. I mean it's not out of the question that I'd go to an event out in Connecticut, as it's not that far, but it'd be a million times easier if there was one in Boston itself, seeing as there are like four stores that do 40k, or so I hear.

That's a really nice offer D:

Edit: Another thing I should ask is how many rounds is this event? How many days at that?