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Hey I know the chaplain is like a support unit... however as hard as I've tried to find a good purpose I just can't see validate using them for their 90 point base cost(dark angels). I just hope I am not missing out on something game changing.



thanks,
xofox

xofox wrote:
Hey I know the chaplain is like a support unit... however as hard as I've tried to find a good purpose I just can't see validate using them for their 90 point base cost(dark angels). I just hope I am not missing out on something game changing.



thanks,
xofox

You are. They're supposed to be a melee support unit instead of a free beatstick and also be cheaper than a Captain (same base cost but comes with free power maul). The real kicker for you is using them in Dark Angels. Try them in C:SM as part of a Gladius Strike force Battle Company for 10 free Razorbacks or Drop Pods.

Competitively, no, they are bad because Librarians exist. It would make far more sense to swap the points cost of the two, but that's not going to happen any time soon, so Meh.

For theme and models, they're fantastic. The vanilla Terminator chaplain is one of my favourite models of all time.

Adding a chaplain to hammernators charging out of a raider or adding one with a jump pack to vanguard or ASM can yield ok results in friendly games.

Wow... Maybe I'll have to use themas space marines then.10 free razorbacks?!?!

xofox wrote:
Wow... Maybe I'll have to use themas space marines then.10 free razorbacks?!?!

Depending. They have a specialised Detachment called the Gladius Strike Force. You need 1 Demi-battle Company plus a formation from the book, and if you have 2 demi battle companies they form a Battle Company. not only is every model in the Battle Company Objective Secured, they also get a Rhino, Razorback or Dedicated Transport for free (upgrades are still payed for). it works at 1500 or higher levels. Taking 6 5 man tactical squads, 2 5 man assault and 2 5 man Devastators, plus a Captain and Chaplain, you end up with 880pts, then once you buy another choice such as 1st Company Task Force (3-5 units chosen from Sternguard, Vanguard or Termies for a minimum of 1210) you have 290 pots to get specials on your Tacticals and Heavy weapons on your devs. Once you've filled your 1500 with those, all your Tacticals, Devastators and Assault Marines get a free dedicated Transports. So you can go for 10 Razors, equating to an extra 550 pts for free, which all have heavy Bolters for fire support base, or like most people go for Drop pods. But essentially your can play an 1850 or 2050pt list vs a 1500pt.

Outside of that there's nothing particularly useful for Chaplains, They are slightly cheaper than Captains due to having a power maul built into their cost, but Captains have higher WS, BS, W, I and A, as well as more efficient use of the various melee weapons, better variety of melee (Chaplain has a Power maul always choice of Bolt or Plasma Pistol or a Power Fist), better use of relics and more durable warlord. And as mentioned, the Librarian is a far superior support character due to being a psyker, being able to cast invisibility, being cheaper and coming with better gear (usually a Force Stave which is like the Chaplain's maul but has force, but can also be an axe or sword as desired).

They're great cause of fearless. There's a number of armies who can make your expensive dudes run 3d6 in a direction you don't want them to run. And extra choppiness in melee is great for a not extremely choppy army.

Thanks the gladius strike force sounds like a great way to do things... I have to run it with SM though? I would like to keep grim resolve with my dudes as it is pretty good for taking out assault units, which my brother(who I mainly play with) is in love with. Are you allowed to take SM formations with DA?

No, but the white scars and raven guard got an alternative Gladius style formation, so perhaps in future they will release an equivalent

Doesent the Lions Blade give out free transports as well?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Doesent the Lions Blade give out free transports as well?

Yes it does, but it has fewer choices for the Assault or Devastator components. Doesn't matter when they can field Ravenwing components and be just as good or better. Heck, the Hammer of Caliban on top of a Lion's Blade would be very harsh.

Sucks that there is no way to get Black Knights in a Lion's Blade though.

They are a support HQ. While they are not bad for mulching through troops or other low-combat HQs, they are not the beatstick that a kitted out captain/CM is. You can’t slam one into a CC monster and expect them to come out on top.

But while they are not personally a beatstick, they make the rest of the squad a lot better. Fearless and hatred. The rest of the squad is going to hit harder, and not budge. So you can stick them in a CC squad and watch the body parts fly.

The big problem is that CC is not as relevant in today’s game. So the one trick they do well, is kinda “meh” in the overall meta. With doctrines there are also more ways of getting re-rolls.

Librarians are more high risk/high reward. They can hand out better buffs, and pull some really nasty tricks. But they need to roll some dice, and might melt their own brains. Chaplains just work. It’s one trick, but it’s reliable.

They are a bit of the man in the middle. Tougher then a librarian, but not as good as a captain. Better buffs then the captain, but no librarian. Middling choppy.

They have a number of things going for them. Free power weapon. 4++ save. They work well at low point values. (Of course, so do librarians). At low points you don’t see many things they can’t scratch, that you’d need a tooled up captain to take down. And their stock gear should serve them well, and their buffs turn the tide on an otherwise mediocre assault unit. And they look cool. Fewer models encapsulate the grimdark universe like a chaplain.

Because sometimes you just need to stare those filthy traitors, heretics and xenos is their twisted little eyes, shout some litanies of hate, and put a crozious through their heads. This galaxy is not going to cleanse itself you know!

Agreed with the others, Chaplains are really good close-combat force multipliers. They make sure you hit, and they keep you from running away.

I play with Blood Angels and use the new (amazing) BA Chaplain model with my Death Company. Utilising Zealot makes my DC more effective.

For DA I'd suggest Stick him with Ravenwing.

The chaplain's main problem is that assault this edition got the short straw

If you're using Dark Angels, you aren't missing anything. They're inferior to Interrogators.

Only thing they would do outside of that is help unlock free transports, and Vanilla Marines already do that.

Fearless, apart from there CC buff they can make a unit just not move, marines plus chaplain is a roadblock in CC.

Your opponents just have to deal with them, there not running anywhere.

Fearless isn't always great though due to how awesome ATSKNF is as a rule. The ability to cut and run and know i'm going to regroup gives marines a lot of flexibility

ATSKNF is better than Fearless. Can still goto ground and can still get out of combat with auto-regroup and cannot be swept. Only downside is if you are very close to your board edge you can still run off the board and Pinning vulnerability, though Pinning is getting rarer and rare for some dumb reason.

Fearless can be a major thorn sometimes. I ran the Ork Warband a few days ago and managed to get Fearless WAAAGH! warlord trait somehow. It actually irritated me because almost the entire board was locked in combat because ATSKNF preventing sweeps and my failed combats being fearless so i didnt flee either. My range support was very bored lol.

I'd much rather have ATSKNF than Fearless. Which is why it bugs me that its a marine thing exclusively.

If you are taking a SM CC unit you generally want to do one of two things: Murder or tarpit. Fearless makes sure you stay in CC until the job is done.

I will agree that fearless is not as relevant to us because of ATSKNF. Loosing combat is merely inconvenient for marines, but potentially catastrophic for other armies.

Just as a note, a Chaplain on a bike is a a fairly effective HQ unit for the Ravenwing Strike Force. A Librarian is generally better, but the 4++ base does give the Chappy a bit of an edge, IMO. It sucks that you can't make a Company Master on a Bike , because that would be the better way to go, IMO.

the dark angels chaplain is worthless as we have the interrogator who is just flat better in every way.

however chaplains are bad picks right now as are captains, their a cc focused unit within an edition that could care less how hard you hit something in cc

seriously here, a cc unit that costs a paltrey few points could have the power to slay a reaver in one phase and not a single feth would be given because they dont have a gun to their name

Most of their stuff is an artifact of an older edition.

Previously Chaplains came with a Power Weapon and 4++ Rosarius as standard, where very few other units could get an invulnerable save at all, much less a 4++ one. Their power Weapon also let them ignore enemy armor completely (before being turned into a power maul). 4th Edition gave them the ability to reroll to hit rolls on the charge, making them a great support character for a melee squad.

every edition then has slowly cause the power of others to rise above him. Storm Shields became a flat out 3++ instead of a 4++ in melee only in 5th edition and the Iron Halo became the standard equipment of all Captains, removing the unique-ness of the Rosarius. On top of that, a lot of characters can take Storm Shields now, making it further meaningless as Chaplains use to have their Rosarius as a tradeoff for not having certain equipment. They also lost a lot of equipment during this time, as well as losing their "Master of Sanctity" profile which was on par with a Space Marine Captain. Finally, melee constantly gets nerfed and their once-unique ability, to reroll hits on the charge, now becomes a USR and either given to a lot more units, or a lot more units had something better (preferred Enemy).

Chaplains have been a victim of power creep, and very noticably so.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ATSKNF is better than Fearless. Can still goto ground and can still get out of combat with auto-regroup and cannot be swept. Only downside is if you are very close to your board edge you can still run off the board and Pinning vulnerability, though Pinning is getting rarer and rare for some dumb reason.

Fearless can be a major thorn sometimes. I ran the Ork Warband a few days ago and managed to get Fearless WAAAGH! warlord trait somehow. It actually irritated me because almost the entire board was locked in combat because ATSKNF preventing sweeps and my failed combats being fearless so i didnt flee either. My range support was very bored lol.

I'd much rather have ATSKNF than Fearless. Which is why it bugs me that its a marine thing exclusively.

True, it has plus and minus, but a good fearless sqaud can be a powerful roadblock used right too. When you need to hold a certain position a jump chaplain could just change the odds enough to win.

Yeah a chaplain is nichey. But sometimes it's niche is very powerful

That marine only. Kinda a fluffy though. It's a mechanic for hyper indoctrination.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ATSKNF is better than Fearless. Can still goto ground and can still get out of combat with auto-regroup and cannot be swept. Only downside is if you are very close to your board edge you can still run off the board and Pinning vulnerability, though Pinning is getting rarer and rare for some dumb reason.

Agreed that ATSKNF is probably better most of the time, but fearless can guarantee you won't be pushed off objectives in addition to not being pushed off the board.

The biggest point of a Chaplain is getting to paint a space marine that looks like the Grim Reaper.

He's got a scull on his head. Ain't it enough? Jee what's up with ye people?